KiokuMemory wrote:
Quote:
Even BarkingTurtle here has not rated you once, despite what he's been saying. . .
Just goes to show.
Just goes to show.
Somehow I doubt that.
Don't trust IN, he's probably rating you down, too.
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#27
Oct 31 2007 at 2:20 PM
Somehow I doubt that.
Don't trust IN, he's probably rating you down, too.
#28
Oct 31 2007 at 2:20 PM
KiokuMemory wrote:
Quote:
Even BarkingTurtle here has not rated you once, despite what he's been saying. . .
Just goes to show.
Just goes to show.
Somehow I doubt that.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/ImperialRX/confused.gif[/img]
lol ok.
#29REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 31 2007 at 2:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Priceless that an admin would lie about something because someone was defacing a forum he is a part of?
#30
Oct 31 2007 at 2:23 PM
KiokuMemory wrote:
Priceless that an admin would lie about something because someone was defacing a forum he is a part of?
No offense intended to you, IN, but I don't always accept claims without proof like others do. Part of being human. Different opinions and different points of view. Especially since he has admitted to rating me down twice.
No offense intended to you, IN, but I don't always accept claims without proof like others do. Part of being human. Different opinions and different points of view. Especially since he has admitted to rating me down twice.
Me thinks you don't know BarkingTurtle very well.
#31
Oct 31 2007 at 2:25 PM
No, I don't. And he doesn't know me. ^^; Nor do you or IN.
#32
Oct 31 2007 at 2:27 PM
KiokuMemory wrote:
No, I don't. And he doesn't know me. ^^; Nor do you or IN.
I don't pretend to know you. I'm just saying that BT talks a lot of ****.
If IN says he didn't rate you down, he most likely didn't rate you down. I did a few times, but I'm willing to bet BT did not.
#33
Oct 31 2007 at 2:29 PM
I'll happily admit to rating you down.
#34
Oct 31 2007 at 2:31 PM
BarkingTurtle has not rated down a single post in this entire thread.
Would you like to call me a liar too?
Would you like to call me a liar too?
#35
Oct 31 2007 at 2:33 PM
Me, of all people, lying to defend Barkingturtle, of all people. lol
Been awhile since I actually laughed from a thread. Not bad.
Been awhile since I actually laughed from a thread. Not bad.
#36
Oct 31 2007 at 2:34 PM
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
I did a few times, but I'm willing to bet BT did not.
It's true, I didn't rate him down, but I think it's funny when someone's whining about karma and how easily it can be abused. Many times, I'll then tell them I'm rating them down, because I like it when they get all upset and rate me down, instead. I imagine they must feel like such hypocrites when they do it. Unless they're just really dumb. Then I don't imagine they feel much of anything, because dumb people don't have feelings. You know, I bet really unintelligent people are about ten thousand times more likely to whine about karma, too.
Meh, what do I care? I'm a sage. Some day, I'm gonna be a guru.
The system is working as intended if you ask me.
#37
Oct 31 2007 at 2:35 PM
Quote:
Multiple people stating they rate posters down for simply disagreeing with them. Just makes me laugh a little when this kind of behavior is accepted and even encouraged.
Looking at your rating history makes this comment kind of funny.
#38
Oct 31 2007 at 2:37 PM
I see. Well this "crap talking" does kind of prove the point that his posts belong more on the WoW forums than mine.
To wrap this up, if we were talking face to face and in a calm disagreement such as this you would not be punching me in the face and I would not be doing that to you, either. If you or I were to do that, however, you/I would have criminal charges brought up against us (because assault [in multiple degrees] is a crime). We also would not be having this conversation right now. The same goes for in-game. You have no power there so why should you have it here?
Just because it is the Internet, does not mean you are immune to similar real life circumstances.
To wrap this up, if we were talking face to face and in a calm disagreement such as this you would not be punching me in the face and I would not be doing that to you, either. If you or I were to do that, however, you/I would have criminal charges brought up against us (because assault [in multiple degrees] is a crime). We also would not be having this conversation right now. The same goes for in-game. You have no power there so why should you have it here?
Just because it is the Internet, does not mean you are immune to similar real life circumstances.
#39
Oct 31 2007 at 2:38 PM
I offer a simple solution: don't use Allakhazam. If those other forums are so much more successfull/better, use those. The fact is, if you're posting on here, you're accepting the Karma system. Nobody is forcing you to continue to post and leave yourself open to rating. I'll never understand why people get so upset over Karma on here. FFS, if it bothers you that much, close your internet browser.
BTW, I liked the drop-down rate bars. I can't rate with the arrows from my Treo, and that makes me sad.
BTW, I liked the drop-down rate bars. I can't rate with the arrows from my Treo, and that makes me sad.
#40
Oct 31 2007 at 2:39 PM
I'm curious, what is my karma score?
#41
Oct 31 2007 at 2:40 PM
KiokuMemory wrote:
To wrap this up, if we were talking face to face and in a calm disagreement such as this you would not be punching me in the face and I would not be doing that to you, either. If you or I were to do that, however, you/I would have criminal charges brought up against us (because assault [in multiple degrees] is a crime). We also would not be having this conversation right now. The same goes for in-game. You have no power there so why should you have it here?
Are you seriously trying to compare post rating to actual physical assault?
Seriously?
That's almost as silly as the people who think RMT is comparable to murder. Which funnily enough seem to surface from the cesspool of forum=10 also.
#42REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 31 2007 at 2:58 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) A good suggestion but it does not solve the problem (and I do use the other forums): it simply sweeps it under the carpet. This is not just a concern of JUST mine. Heck, I'm not even the OP. This is concern across the entire Allakazham board system. Failure to acknowledge the problem is laughable at worst and scarry at the most.
#43
Oct 31 2007 at 3:02 PM
I just talked to my friends on Garuda and you should consider yourself blacklisted.
#44
Oct 31 2007 at 3:02 PM
KiokuMemory wrote:
Quote:
Looking at your rating history makes this comment kind of funny.
Nothing abnormal about that. Are you also insulting others who have a similar score (scholars with 500 or so posts?).
More so, if I was paying for premium membership do you think you would be entitled to treat a customer as such? Might I remind you that the other forums I mentioned do not require you to pay to search them.
And no, I am comparing physical assault to real life arguments and then comparing it to arguments over the Internet, which is the same thing only between people who are at a greater distance and via text.
Pikko, calling someone a liar (if that's what you want to call it) is normal. He didn't provide evidence and still hasn't. That's fine, he doesn't have to. Just like I don't have to believe all of what I read. If you don't respect that then that is also your call. I respect your opinion, regardless. Also, based on the standards set by karma it seems like being called a liar is minor compared to being punched in the face.
Groogle was referring to the rates you've made, not the ratings on your posts. He (or she?) is implying you're just as guilty of the terrible crime of rating down a post that you disagree with, and not just troll posts.
And premium doesn't really seem to get anyone preferential treatment. Just ask Hellboy about that.
And as to your horribly bad analogy:
KiokuMemory wrote:
To wrap this up, if we were talking face to face and in a calm disagreement such as this you would not be punching me in the face and I would not be doing that to you, either. If you or I were to do that, however, you/I would have criminal charges brought up against us (because assault [in multiple degrees] is a crime). We also would not be having this conversation right now. The same goes for in-game. You have no power there so why should you have it here?
If you're not implying ratedowns are the same as punching someone in the face, why bring it up?
You're implicitly stating that ratedowns are some sort of "power" on this forum. That's fine, they quite probably are. The rest of your statement has absolutely nothing to do with that though. What possible relationship does being arrested for physical violence in real life have with the "power" of being able to rate?
The only, only, possible way it could do is if you're claiming that rating and punching someone in the face are similar.
Edited, Oct 31st 2007 11:11pm by neesh
#45
Oct 31 2007 at 3:05 PM
Quote:
I just talked to my friends on Garuda and you should consider yourself blacklisted.
Now resorting to threats? How childish. Considering I am a respected member of the Garuda population, I hope your friends have a large sway over public opinion (unlikely).
#46
Oct 31 2007 at 3:08 PM
Quote:
Groogle was referring to the rates you've made, not the ratings on your posts. He (or she?) is implying you're just as guilty of the terrible crime of rating down a post that you disagree with, and not just troll posts.
And premium doesn't really seem to get anyone preferential treatment. Just ask Hellboy about that.
And premium doesn't really seem to get anyone preferential treatment. Just ask Hellboy about that.
Really? Here's a PM I sent to Kaolin earlier titled "Karma Policy". I was PMing him with concerns to being camped on the main forums. He confirmed this. IN denied it (which is where my skepticism comes from).
Quote:
I also forgot to mention my policy on rating up or down.
I do not rate anyone up unless I see that they are being purposefully karma camped like I am, have helped answer my questions, or have made a funny post.
I do not rate anyone down unless they are an obvious troll (like the FFXI chore thread with the WoW forum troll).
I do not rate anyone up unless I see that they are being purposefully karma camped like I am, have helped answer my questions, or have made a funny post.
I do not rate anyone down unless they are an obvious troll (like the FFXI chore thread with the WoW forum troll).
Here is what Kaolin responded with before that post:
Quote:
Admins have a tool that shows every ratign on a poster, in chronological order, who the rate was applied by, and on what thread. Looking over your recent rating history, you did have a coupel minor (less than 14 rates on you each) karma campers, but the vast majority of the ratings on you are by mostly random people rating you 1 or 2 times. In the last month, you have been rated 1.00 by 60 different people. That's alot
My suggestion to you at this point would be to either adjust your posting style, or stick to some of the server forums until you build up enough points that your karma will be harder to move by others.
Other than that, there realy isn't much I can do as none of the people rating you are doing it enough to warrent norating them or even talkign to them besides the two campers, who have been dealt with.
Sorry
My suggestion to you at this point would be to either adjust your posting style, or stick to some of the server forums until you build up enough points that your karma will be harder to move by others.
Other than that, there realy isn't much I can do as none of the people rating you are doing it enough to warrent norating them or even talkign to them besides the two campers, who have been dealt with.
Sorry
Here are the other PMs I sent today (with responses I got):
To IN:
Quote:
I believe a user is strictly singling out my posts on the general forums and rating them down no matter what they say just because they either:
1) Got butthurt over an argument (likely)
2) Don't understand everyone has their own opinion (more than likely)
I'm sure there is a way to inspect who is rating down a user continuously in every thread they can find that user posting in.
Examples of recent posting:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4783/example1au5.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4662/example2un2.jpg
Examples of posts that are on the third or so page:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9637/example3as9.jpg
As much as I (and the majority of the Allakazham community) would like to get rid of the horrid karma system, I am not asking that this time (because that belongs on the feedback forums. But, I am suggesting that the current karma system has flaws and this is one of them. I would like protection from these flaws.
Granted, some of my posts do need to be defaulted due to a couple inflammatory remarks (see the thread you posted in yesterday that turned into a WoW vs FFXI debate involving someone from the WoW forums trolling that thread) but not all of them.
1) Got butthurt over an argument (likely)
2) Don't understand everyone has their own opinion (more than likely)
I'm sure there is a way to inspect who is rating down a user continuously in every thread they can find that user posting in.
Examples of recent posting:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4783/example1au5.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4662/example2un2.jpg
Examples of posts that are on the third or so page:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9637/example3as9.jpg
As much as I (and the majority of the Allakazham community) would like to get rid of the horrid karma system, I am not asking that this time (because that belongs on the feedback forums. But, I am suggesting that the current karma system has flaws and this is one of them. I would like protection from these flaws.
Granted, some of my posts do need to be defaulted due to a couple inflammatory remarks (see the thread you posted in yesterday that turned into a WoW vs FFXI debate involving someone from the WoW forums trolling that thread) but not all of them.
From IN:
Quote:
Hi Kioku,
you don't need to provide screenshots of anything. I can already view it all.
There doesn't seem to be anyone stalking your posts rating you down, i.e. no one from the recent threads like ffxi a chore, spell interrupt . . .
If it continues though PM Kaolian about it and he can have a better look.
Thanks.
you don't need to provide screenshots of anything. I can already view it all.
There doesn't seem to be anyone stalking your posts rating you down, i.e. no one from the recent threads like ffxi a chore, spell interrupt . . .
If it continues though PM Kaolian about it and he can have a better look.
Thanks.
To IN:
Quote:
Ah ok. I thought I was being stalked by the WoW forum troll with 10k+ posts and scholar. Thanks very much for the quick response, IN!
To Kaolin:
Quote:
Hi Kaolin. I have a question for you (rather an inquiry). I believe I am being karma camped by someone on the FFXI general forums. In particular, posts like this:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=1193760961158724117;num=21;page=1
Where I was rated up to Excellent at one point and then back down for no reason at all (it really is just a question thread).
A similar instance occurred in this thread:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=119377813358826742#m1193850439110355029
This one:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=1193760898151927759#m1193768672256149523
This one:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=1193422433242501751;page=2;howmany=50#m119368600931627804
Those are only the threads I could tell my karma was being bombed. I had a few other threads where multiple people rated me up to Excellent and, therefore, they couldn't rate me down to Good or even Default.
I sent IN this PM recently:
Kioku wrote:I believe a user is strictly singling out my posts on the general forums and rating them down no matter what they say just because they either:
1) Got butthurt over an argument (likely)
2) Don't understand everyone has their own opinion (more than likely)
I'm sure there is a way to inspect who is rating down a user continuously in every thread they can find that user posting in.
Examples of recent posting:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4783/example1au5.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4662/example2un2.jpg
Examples of posts that are on the third or so page:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9637/example3as9.jpg
As much as I (and the majority of the Allakazham community) would like to get rid of the horrid karma system, I am not asking that this time (because that belongs on the feedback forums. But, I am suggesting that the current karma system has flaws and this is one of them. I would like protection from these flaws.
Granted, some of my posts do need to be defaulted due to a couple inflammatory remarks (see the thread you posted in yesterday that turned into a WoW vs FFXI debate involving someone from the WoW forums trolling that thread) but not all of them.
He replied with this:
ImperialNinja wrote:Hi Kioku,
you don't need to provide screenshots of anything. I can already view it all.
There doesn't seem to be anyone stalking your posts rating you down, i.e. no one from the recent threads like ffxi a chore, spell interrupt . . .
If it continues though PM Kaolian about it and he can have a better look.
Thanks.
I do believe it is a problem and that someone on the general forums is rating down any post I make, regardless of content due to the reasons I mentioned in the PM to IN.
If you could take a further look at it (as IN put it) I would be very much obliged. Sorry to bother you with a frivolous matter but I have gone through a few accounts that have been sub-defaulted for no reason at all and this is the one that has finally stabilized and now is going to be sub-defaulted due to someone who disagrees with my opinion, no matter what it is.
--------------------
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=1193760961158724117;num=21;page=1
Where I was rated up to Excellent at one point and then back down for no reason at all (it really is just a question thread).
A similar instance occurred in this thread:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=119377813358826742#m1193850439110355029
This one:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=1193760898151927759#m1193768672256149523
This one:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=1193422433242501751;page=2;howmany=50#m119368600931627804
Those are only the threads I could tell my karma was being bombed. I had a few other threads where multiple people rated me up to Excellent and, therefore, they couldn't rate me down to Good or even Default.
I sent IN this PM recently:
Kioku wrote:I believe a user is strictly singling out my posts on the general forums and rating them down no matter what they say just because they either:
1) Got butthurt over an argument (likely)
2) Don't understand everyone has their own opinion (more than likely)
I'm sure there is a way to inspect who is rating down a user continuously in every thread they can find that user posting in.
Examples of recent posting:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4783/example1au5.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4662/example2un2.jpg
Examples of posts that are on the third or so page:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9637/example3as9.jpg
As much as I (and the majority of the Allakazham community) would like to get rid of the horrid karma system, I am not asking that this time (because that belongs on the feedback forums. But, I am suggesting that the current karma system has flaws and this is one of them. I would like protection from these flaws.
Granted, some of my posts do need to be defaulted due to a couple inflammatory remarks (see the thread you posted in yesterday that turned into a WoW vs FFXI debate involving someone from the WoW forums trolling that thread) but not all of them.
He replied with this:
ImperialNinja wrote:Hi Kioku,
you don't need to provide screenshots of anything. I can already view it all.
There doesn't seem to be anyone stalking your posts rating you down, i.e. no one from the recent threads like ffxi a chore, spell interrupt . . .
If it continues though PM Kaolian about it and he can have a better look.
Thanks.
I do believe it is a problem and that someone on the general forums is rating down any post I make, regardless of content due to the reasons I mentioned in the PM to IN.
If you could take a further look at it (as IN put it) I would be very much obliged. Sorry to bother you with a frivolous matter but I have gone through a few accounts that have been sub-defaulted for no reason at all and this is the one that has finally stabilized and now is going to be sub-defaulted due to someone who disagrees with my opinion, no matter what it is.
--------------------
From Kaolin:
Quote:
Admins have a tool that shows every ratign on a poster, in chronological order, who the rate was applied by, and on what thread. Looking over your recent rating history, you did have a coupel minor (less than 14 rates on you each) karma campers, but the vast majority of the ratings on you are by mostly random people rating you 1 or 2 times. In the last month, you have been rated 1.00 by 60 different people. That's alot
My suggestion to you at this point would be to either adjust your posting style, or stick to some of the server forums until you build up enough points that your karma will be harder to move by others.
Other than that, there realy isn't much I can do as none of the people rating you are doing it enough to warrent norating them or even talkign to them besides the two campers, who have been dealt with.
Sorry
My suggestion to you at this point would be to either adjust your posting style, or stick to some of the server forums until you build up enough points that your karma will be harder to move by others.
Other than that, there realy isn't much I can do as none of the people rating you are doing it enough to warrent norating them or even talkign to them besides the two campers, who have been dealt with.
Sorry
To Kaolin:
Quote:
It's ok but thank you for the information! I appreciate it. I have posted some bait to help further find the campers (it was instantly rated down the minute I posted it).
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=119386097311729792;page=1#m119386097311729792
It is just a helpful facts thread and really has no reason to be rated down or up.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=119386097311729792;page=1#m119386097311729792
It is just a helpful facts thread and really has no reason to be rated down or up.
To Kaolin:
Quote:
Sorry for the multiple PMs. I keep forgetting to add things.
60 is quite a lot due to my posting style (and I realize I'm still a scholar because of that). However, the posts that people have rated down are usually posts they disagree with (and that is the flaw in the karma system) because I stated something too harshly and it goes against the majority public opinion.
This often happens to everyone (not just me), where people will make note of the karma being defaulted based on their opinion being of the minority. A couple people who have noted this are lolgaxe and Bsphil.
I know you must receive a ton of PMs involving karma, daily. I am sorry to bother you with my minor problems and I agree my posting style is what receives the rate downs. However, my posting style is that of an honest type of person's (no fluffy stuff/not sucking up) and I really don't think this is a poor posting style for a forum. However, for Allakazham it is a bad posting style if you wish to stay above sub-default. ^^;
60 is quite a lot due to my posting style (and I realize I'm still a scholar because of that). However, the posts that people have rated down are usually posts they disagree with (and that is the flaw in the karma system) because I stated something too harshly and it goes against the majority public opinion.
This often happens to everyone (not just me), where people will make note of the karma being defaulted based on their opinion being of the minority. A couple people who have noted this are lolgaxe and Bsphil.
I know you must receive a ton of PMs involving karma, daily. I am sorry to bother you with my minor problems and I agree my posting style is what receives the rate downs. However, my posting style is that of an honest type of person's (no fluffy stuff/not sucking up) and I really don't think this is a poor posting style for a forum. However, for Allakazham it is a bad posting style if you wish to stay above sub-default. ^^;
To Kaolin (made after the second time you admitted to rating me down):
Quote:
More annoyances, I'm sorry. I screenshot things so that users may not edit their material when presented to you for review.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8130/admittenceau0.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8130/admittenceau0.jpg
Still awaiting responses. He is a very busy person so I do not expect quick replies.
Edited, Oct 31st 2007 7:12pm by KiokuMemory
#47
Oct 31 2007 at 3:08 PM
Quote:
Nothing abnormal about that. Are you also insulting others who have a similar score (scholars with 500 or so posts?).
As Neesh said -- I'm not talking about the ratings on your posts, I'm talking about the ratings you have given out.
I see at least one case where I'm 95% sure you rated someone down in a dozen or so posts just because he annoyed you, and not because of any of the content in most of those posts.
I'm not insulting scholars in general, I'm not even insulting you. Just pointing out that that statement coming from you is a bit funny.
#48
Oct 31 2007 at 3:08 PM
KiokuMemory wrote:
Quote:
I just talked to my friends on Garuda and you should consider yourself blacklisted.
Now resorting to threats? How childish. Considering I am a respected member of the Garuda population, I hope your friends have a large sway over public opinion (unlikely).
Ask Pikko or IN, my friends on garuda are highly influential.
You might want to transfer.
#49
Oct 31 2007 at 3:12 PM
Quote:
Ask Pikko or IN, my friends on garuda are highly influential.
You might want to transfer.
You might want to transfer.
I'm sorry, I just find this funny.
They have influence when it comes to Allakazham, most definitely. But, I do not even know what linkshell either of them is in much less have partied/seen them in game (except seeing Pikko at the lake in west ronfaure while traveling through to do a quest). Honestly, do you think they have time to play much of FFXI when they have duties of managing this site? No, of course not. Just like I do not have time to be rated down for disagreements because I am more busy in-game and could argue, in-game, without being rated down.
Like I said, what they are doing is the same thing I could do to them in-game as I do have more influence than them. However, I would never abuse my influence like that and I would expect the same from them as well.
Edited, Oct 31st 2007 7:22pm by KiokuMemory
#50
Oct 31 2007 at 3:13 PM
Quote:
As Neesh said -- I'm not talking about the ratings on your posts, I'm talking about the ratings you have given out.
I see at least one case where I'm 95% sure you rated someone down in a dozen or so posts just because he annoyed you, and not because of any of the content in most of those posts.
I'm not insulting scholars in general, I'm not even insulting you. Just pointing out that that statement coming from you is a bit funny.
I see at least one case where I'm 95% sure you rated someone down in a dozen or so posts just because he annoyed you, and not because of any of the content in most of those posts.
I'm not insulting scholars in general, I'm not even insulting you. Just pointing out that that statement coming from you is a bit funny.
I stated my karma policy to Kaolin. It has not always been true, I admit. However, I recently realized my errors and changed them. What I am asking is for others to come to this realization and do the same.
#51
Oct 31 2007 at 3:15 PM
I just shortened what Kao said to you.
One person rating you down 13 times is nothing for me to even think about taking action on. No other admin would do either.
And it was spread across one or two different threads . . . Not all of them.
Edited, Oct 31st 2007 7:15pm by ImperialNinja
One person rating you down 13 times is nothing for me to even think about taking action on. No other admin would do either.
And it was spread across one or two different threads . . . Not all of them.
Edited, Oct 31st 2007 7:15pm by ImperialNinja
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