Requesting a MuteFollow

I was going back and forth with Imp. Ninja on this one for the last month or two, and while I understand that we aren't allowed to ask the Admins to ban idiocy, IN gave me some hope that some repeat offenders could be muted for a time.

From watching and participating in the SMN forums in the FFXI Job section for the last two years, I've watched the poster Craftermath from time to time build up an argument to support his belief that the Summoner should be a melee class. What will happen is that he will start a thread with a theory or proclamation, firefighting will ensue between him and the other posters, and he'll spend the next month and a half derailing every new thread that comes up in an effort to re-examine his current theory. Nothing good ever comes from it on either side of any of the arguments, and the boards end up worse off than before.

It's started up again, and I have the feeling that it's going to once again happen the way I've explained. I have a seventh sense about these things (my sixth sense is that I can tell when squirrels are afraid)...

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=15;mid=1201272793303661355;num=2;page=1

I don't want this thread locked, but I don't want it to help Craftermath build up momentum either. I enjoy the job forums here on 'Zam, and I'm willing to state that I'm not in the minority of those that frequent that particular board that could use a vacation from Craftermath.

Normally, I would have sent this in PM to IN, but I can't really do that now, can I? If it would work better, I'd be willing to discuss this in PMs with any Admin who feels up to babysitting that forum. It would be most appreicated.

Edited, Feb 5th 2008 7:39pm by Wordaen

Muchas Gracias.

Aye.

I don't even post in the SMN jobs forums because of CM. It's to much of a hassle and I post in the OOT fer cripes sake so lord knows I'm willing to put up with stupid. But it's gotten to the point you can't even read that forum these days.

I agree with OP.

Don't give him anyway leeway. He was on his last legs as Acturus already said with me.

Just get rid of him.

Given my tolerance for some things, I don't think we'll have an issue if he/she starts up. We shall see.

THEREWHATYOUSEEIDID!

I don't see whats wrong with that thread except for people going in there to start stuff. They're the ones who need the mute. It's all well and good to make predictions when your part of the reason they always come true.

I'll call that a fair statement, but I'll wager you've not been paying attention to the SMN boards over the course of the last two years like I have.

The entire board is polarized to the point where the most popular insult is to compare a poster to Craftermath. That doesn't happen without perpetuation from both sides.

I won't argue against the fact that I flame Craftermath as often as possible, but I believe it goes a little deeper than that.

Those of us who've been active participants in that board for as long as I have (if not longer) have tried the proven methods of dealing with what we've perceived as a forum troll. We tried reason, and that failed. We tried to ignore him, and we ran into the problem that Craftermath, when left to his own devices, will post nonsense in such a convincing manner that it seems like fact.

Case in point (from this very thread):


You can see two things in this little excerpt. First, you'll note the presence of "statistics." Now, I won't argue their validity, but I will point out that the number of poster-originated threads in a given time period has little to do with their perception of a particular forum, and nothing to do with the request I've posted in this thread. Second, you can pick out two very obvious logical fallacies in that cut. The claim that "the world agrees" with me, and the claim that I've said the forum "needs an overhaul," have no bearring on the thread at hand. And the entire tone is moderately civil with Craftermath trying to claim that he is "trying to help smn."

Now, take what I've just pointed out, and apply it to a well-written post on some aspect of playing the job class that is neither factual nor positively informative, and you have the problem that we saw when we thought that ignoring Craftermath was a useful tactic. He just kept posting speculation without fact, claimed it as fact, and potentially set a lot of people off in the wrong direction. Rhetorically speaking, when the traditional methods of play still work, how does claiming them to be useless in addition to asking posters to kill themselves (Imperial Ninja saw this firsthand) because they're still following/teaching these effective methods ever help anyone?

So what's left? Reasoning with him failed, ignoring him failed, and since a good number of posters either used to exist or still exist on that board want to still help communicate good information to new players, the only choice left is to openly discredit him. Unfortunately, that started with fact and proof long ago with posters like NegativePositiv and Hakamaru, and has just become a repetitive chore ending with the one-line insult replies that you see today. Sadly, too many useful posters like Hakamaru have been driven off that board out of sheer annoyance for one person.

For two years it's been a game, for Craftermath, and for everyone else who regularly frequented that board. I was so bothered by it at one point that I offered to take a ban myself if it meant getting him off the boards permanently.

But, I digress. I'm not here looking for a banstick. I'm just here to predict what I believe is the inevitable future based on what I've experienced in the last two years. It's never been the issue with whatever half-brained or crackpot theory that Craftermath or any other poster has tried to come up with that bothered me, it was always that Craftermath would sit atop a very high ivory tower and claim that because a certain non-traditional method du jour worked in a bare minimum of situations under ideal conditions that the accepted and traditional methods were suddenly useless and should be put to the ground. It's always been a bald insult to every player who's ever made a worthwhile contribution to the Summoner community, and that's been the reason why Craftermath remains the whipping boy of that forum.

Naturally, I'm slightly perturbed that I have to write a novella here to further illustrate my point, but this would have never been such an issue had Craftermath shown a little tolerance for the rest of the Summoner community, because Lord knows we at least tried to show him some, onceuponatime.

I can only close reiterating what IN has already stated in response to this thread, and you can take it for what it's worth:



Edited, Jan 28th 2008 8:28am by Acturus

Comments like this and this are the reasons people want him muted, you know; vitriolic and rude responses to otherwise logical reasons why his proposal is wrong flawed.

Edited for accuracy.

Edited, Feb 5th 2008 1:40pm by Norellicus

As of today, there needs to be a ceasefire between a few of you and Craftermath. All of you are baiting and flaming each other and it's gone just about far enough. Knock it off, agree to disagree and let this go. Everyone needs to just back up and chill a little. This thread is locked.