Clarification on why a thread was locked

#1 Aug 20 2008 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent

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http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=21;mid=1219091284130988421;num=38;page=1

The thread was titled "WoW and Alcoholism." Wordaen locked it, saying

Wordaen wrote:

After receiving some concerned PMs and reading through it myself, I think it's time to lock this thread. Sorry folks, it's done.

I'm curious as to why? The vast majority of the posts were on-topic, and spoke directly to the behavior of our players while drinking (and some while smoking) and playing WoW. The content was mostly kept clean, and the only time WoW wasn't mentioned was when the OP was called out on some of her behavior, to which she responded to a non-hostile manner.

I've never had a problem with Wordaen's behavior (and I'm damn thankful that he/she got rid of some threads quickly), but I feel that this thread might have been locked for the wrong reasons. Drinking alcohol, and indeed even smoking marijuana, seems to be an accepted recreation form that has had many humorous effects on playing the World of Warcraft. I'm just worried that a few self-righteous posters (and possibly anonymous ones) got offended by seeing the topic on an open forum, despite being obvious how it tied into our game, and demanded action.

Perhaps I'm just overly touchy, since the whole issue of lowering the drinking age is being kicked around by some college presidents (see the appropriate Asylum article for more details).

Thanks for any response, admin!

Edited, Aug 23rd 2008 7:25am by Darqflame

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#2 Aug 20 2008 at 7:29 PM Rating: Excellent

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While we do not moderate heavily, nor do I tend to "knee-jerk" a post, there were several complaints sent to me regarding what appeared to be encouragement of narcotics and alcohol, narcostics specifically. Since we do have younger posters here, rather than get into a big debate over right and wrong, I chose the lesser of two evils and locked the thread. Nobody is in trouble, nobody is going to get slapped, it's simply better to let that one go.

Bear in mind that I look out for the entire community when I can, not just a small group who doesn't object so I have to consider every aspect when making a decision to lock a thread like that.

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#3 Aug 20 2008 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent

Darqflame

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While this may seem harsh in some circles, we are trying to keep things semi clean around here. We received complaints and we have to consider that children do visit the board now and then and we try to keep it PG-13. Yes, yes I know, 13 year olds probably know more than sailors nowadays, that is beside the point. There are those WOW geniuses, geni? Whatever... yougins that play well, that do come here. Some people just prefer not to read about narcotics on a gaming message board. Feel free to address your addictions to drugs etc to the Asylum. Thanks for your understanding in this matter and we apologize if it caused you any inconvenience.

Also, thank you for posting in the Feedback forum.

Edit: I suck at typing...

Edited, Aug 20th 2008 10:35pm by Darqflame

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#4 Aug 20 2008 at 9:49 PM Rating: Excellent

Mazra

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I'm fine with locking a thread due to narcotics and, to some extent, drinking being encouraged, because as Darqflame said, it's a PG-13 game and site, and 13-year-olds aren't allowed to drink in most countries, let alone use narcotics (hell, that's not legal at all in other countries, like mine).

However, why hasn't there been put an age verification on the Asylum and OOT forums yet? The 13-year-old you shield from seeing all these bad suggestions in the World of Warcraft forum can waltz right into the OOT forum and get sore eyes from reading certain posters' tales of sexual experiences, drinking binges and even narcotics usage.

The Asylum is even worse, or used to be - I'm not sure how that place is anymore with all of them posting in the OOT forum anyway.

I don't mind moderating heavy talk about narcotics and alcohol, because I don't think young ones should get a load of that in their face when they come here, but of all the threads I've read during my time here (and I have read a lot of threads), it was probably the thread that needed the least moderation.

I suggest some of you swing by the aforementioned forums and apply some consistency to the situation. As I said before, nothing prevents the 13-year-old from clicking the OOT forum link and being exposed to stuff that would make even adults uncomfortable. And I don't believe there's even a warning anywhere in the OOT forum.

Just a suggestion. Smiley: smile

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#5 Aug 21 2008 at 5:38 AM Rating: Excellent

Kaolian

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We do have an age verification system. It consists of all users clicking the "I accept" button on the site Terms of Service that states you must be at least 13 to utilize the site.

There is no way for us to prevent someone under 13 from clicking that. There is also no universal way to verify age worldwide, as documents to that affect vary greatly, and even if people were cvrazy to upload personal documents to post on a web forum, we have no way to verify them, and many of them would be in silly foreign languages anyways. I dunno about you, but I sure can't read a dutch birth certificate with any measure of understanding.

So yeah, other than relying on the honesty of our posters, we have no feasable recourse.

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#6 Aug 21 2008 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good

Usagi

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The only thing that would even remotely work would be to allow only premium users access to the Asylum, since it is the forum where over PG-13 is allowed. But could you imagine the backlash of that action? Smiley: lol

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#7 Aug 21 2008 at 2:34 PM Rating: Excellent

Mazra

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I know there's no easy way to make a true age verification system on a website. That wasn't my point, though.

The point is, if there's no way to restrict posters/lurkers below a certain age from viewing certain forums, then those forums should follow the same rules as the other forums in order to make the site maintain the PG-13 rating. It's like making a movie where one scene has all the swear words bleeped out and then in the next scene, they're not. Would that movie receive a rating based on the bleeped scene or the non-bleeped scene?

And it's the same here, except this isn't a movie, of course. You can't have one forum where topics are moderated to follow the PG-13 rating and then another where moderation is more or less non-existent, and then claim that the site follows a rating based on the forum that is moderated. You'll either need to apply the moderation to all forums, or change the rating.

I'm using the word rating, because frankly, I don't know what you call it. They call it a rating on movies and games, but I'm not sure if you can apply a rating to a website. Hopefully you know what I mean.

And I'm not trying to revoke the lock, because after having reread the thread, I can see where certain posters decided to glorify drugs, something I don't believe belongs in a forum about a family friendly game. The lock was fine, I just wish for a little more consistency.

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#8 Aug 21 2008 at 6:15 PM Rating: Excellent

Darqflame

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Mazra wrote:

I know there's no easy way to make a true age verification system on a website. That wasn't my point, though.

The point is, if there's no way to restrict posters/lurkers below a certain age from viewing certain forums, then those forums should follow the same rules as the other forums in order to make the site maintain the PG-13 rating. It's like making a movie where one scene has all the swear words bleeped out and then in the next scene, they're not. Would that movie receive a rating based on the bleeped scene or the non-bleeped scene?

And it's the same here, except this isn't a movie, of course. You can't have one forum where topics are moderated to follow the PG-13 rating and then another where moderation is more or less non-existent, and then claim that the site follows a rating based on the forum that is moderated. You'll either need to apply the moderation to all forums, or change the rating.

I'm using the word rating, because frankly, I don't know what you call it. They call it a rating on movies and games, but I'm not sure if you can apply a rating to a website. Hopefully you know what I mean.

And I'm not trying to revoke the lock, because after having reread the thread, I can see where certain posters decided to glorify drugs, something I don't believe belongs in a forum about a family friendly game. The lock was fine, I just wish for a little more consistency.

Then I suggest you fund cloning for us, because we all think differently. However in this case, there was more than one complaint. It's no different than when someone complains about an avatar. The complaint goes before the admins that are on, we vote and take action. It's a gaming forum, they can discuss drugs and crap in oot, preferably asylum.

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#9 Aug 21 2008 at 7:03 PM Rating: Excellent

Kaolian

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The Asylum has a disclaimer. Under US laws at least, that's fine. It's like if you have a road, and that road has a "watch for falling rocks" sign. If a rock falls on you and kills you, you can't sue the state because A. you are dead, and B. you were warned so it is your own fault. If there was no sign, your chost could sue.

Your movie analogy is accurate, except it's not the same movie, it's different movies int he same theater. Yeah, someone could sneak out of the theater and go into the R rated film, but it is again their own choice to do so. They are two different, yet linked forums, with two different, yet linked levels of acceptable content.

The new OOT was created in the first place because the level of content in Asylum (old OOT) was too offensive for most. It has since mellowed.

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#10 Aug 21 2008 at 10:08 PM Rating: Excellent

Poldaran

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Dread LÃ¶rd Kaolian wrote:

If there was no sign, your chost could sue.

My ghost would hire the ghost of Johnny Cochran to represent it.

Dread LÃ¶rd Kaolian wrote:

The new OOT was created in the first place because the level of content in Asylum (old OOT) was too offensive for most. It has since mellowed.

And then the OOT got bad. And the admins came. Then things got fuzzy and I woke up in Tijuana in a bathtub full of ice. The tub was ringed with margarita salt. Strange thing was that I still had both my kidneys, though I think they took my appendix.

But anywho, that weird tangent aside, while I wasn't one of the people complaining about it, I can definitely see why people might have complained.

As to the OOT/Asylum:

Those are also less likely for a kid to stumble upon randomly while looking for information, so I can understand being a bit more lenient there.

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#11 Aug 23 2008 at 3:44 AM Rating: Good

Mazra

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I just went through the Forum Rules stickied in the World of Warcraft General Discussion Forum (link) and I'm afraid it pretty much states what you've just said.

The paragraph I'm referring to is the following:

Quote:

I. Post content and Harassment

The forums are a dynamic and sometimes rowdy environment, and a certain degree of banter, teasing and heated discussion is expected and tolerated. Keep in mind that your post content is subject to the same rules and responsibilities that you would experience under any face to face conversation. Libel and slander laws are applicable, so post accordingly. We will generally not intervene in a thread until we receive complaints, it is deemed excessive and persistent by admin review, or a thread devolves to personal attacks or threats of violence. Racial, ethnic, gender, and other such slurs will also be removed. Administrators may lock, remove, or modify any post without notice, at their discretion.

Please note: content in the forum designated "Asylum" is by design less regulated. While there are still limits, please be aware that content in that specific section of the forum is not subject to the same level of restrictions listed above. Post there at your own risk.

I guess that means you're right and I'm wrong.

Why I oughta!

You may have won this battle, filthy admins, but the war is far from over yet!

*STOMPSTOMPstompstompstompstomp...*

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Clarification on why a thread was lockedFollow