As mentioned in the official SOE forums (links don't see to be working here), the ZAM database lists an item that is no longer in the drop table of Zarrakon, and it hasn't been in the drop table for quite some time. Others have posted about items being listed in mobs' drop tables here that were removed about the same time. Given that, how well can we trust the data presented on ZAM? I paid for the premiere membership - will it be for naught unless I choose to look at only certain, well maintained parts of the site?
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Our site is now linked directly to tables provided by SOE. Those items did exist in game at one point, and are most likely still present on the loot tables, just set to a literally impossible drop percentage. This is a new process interface for us both, there will likely be hiccups as we get things ironed out. I'd estimate 99% of the data you will see now is accurate. It's those 1% exception cases that will need to be ironed out. We rely on user information to help accomplesh that. The data we have here is probably better than most of our user provided data in some respects, because there is 0 chance that someone will attempt to give us a bogus item via the SOE databases.
If you notice something inaccurate (like an item that no longer drops), post it here, or PM Calthine or Spyderbyte on the EQ2 team and it will be fixed or noted.
If you notice something inaccurate (like an item that no longer drops), post it here, or PM Calthine or Spyderbyte on the EQ2 team and it will be fixed or noted.
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13 posts
Hmm. Okay, so are the drop percentage rates not coming over from SOE, just the list of the items themselves? Or does SOE have a second table that impacts the drop rate without changing the table that ZAM is accessing? The item in question, the Ridged Dragonspine Girdle, is listed with a 16.667% chance to drop in the ZAM database.
16,67% is a die throw. 1/6 chances of getting it. You could fight the same monster 100 times and never see it. Its 1/6 every time you encounter it.
The process of determining the drop % of an item from a mob is not a straight forward loading of a table from soe that lists an item ID and %. It's a pretty complex process involving up to a dozen files per mob just to get the drop table.
In a perfect world it would be as straight forward as just parsing a single, clear and concise file and loading it in the database, but it's not.
Mentioning the name(s) of the item(s) that no longer drop from Zarrakon would be helpful in us tracking down the problem.
In a perfect world it would be as straight forward as just parsing a single, clear and concise file and loading it in the database, but it's not.
Mentioning the name(s) of the item(s) that no longer drop from Zarrakon would be helpful in us tracking down the problem.
13 posts
/sigh
You'd think it would be easier to have one table, but then I realize that there is going to be a relational aspect to it, as multiple mobs can drop the same item, so you wouldn't want to replicate that on every mob, just have a pointer...
The bigger problem is that there are only a few items that the player base know have been removed from a mob's drop table, generally due to patch notes or a post by a developer in the official forums. For all we know, items might get removed but we have no way to know. Perhaps ZAM could ask/negotiate/whatever a commitment from SOE to let you know when there have been such changes to the database. I presume that ZAM is paying money for this data, or providing some service in return. Otherwise the database will gradually drift away from 'reality' (what actually is observed in game) and becomes less reliable.
You'd think it would be easier to have one table, but then I realize that there is going to be a relational aspect to it, as multiple mobs can drop the same item, so you wouldn't want to replicate that on every mob, just have a pointer...
The bigger problem is that there are only a few items that the player base know have been removed from a mob's drop table, generally due to patch notes or a post by a developer in the official forums. For all we know, items might get removed but we have no way to know. Perhaps ZAM could ask/negotiate/whatever a commitment from SOE to let you know when there have been such changes to the database. I presume that ZAM is paying money for this data, or providing some service in return. Otherwise the database will gradually drift away from 'reality' (what actually is observed in game) and becomes less reliable.
I could still use an example item that has been removed from a mob's drop table in game based on patch notes you've read, so we can track down the problem.
It's easier for us to go to sony and say "bone chips haven't dropped off of plague rats since GU20. Why are they still in the files you sent us? Or are we parsing them wrong?" than just saying that things are in the files that shouldn't be with no specifics.
It's easier for us to go to sony and say "bone chips haven't dropped off of plague rats since GU20. Why are they still in the files you sent us? Or are we parsing them wrong?" than just saying that things are in the files that shouldn't be with no specifics.
13 posts
Okay, Gynok Moltor had the \aITEM -54379439 -923393270:Eye Mounted Ring\/a removed from his table and replaced with the \aITEM -1120403262 -2083210168:Ring of Blood and Rage\/a . The former is in the ZAM database for Gynok, the latter is not present. The ring of blood and rage is in the ZAM database, but it is not associated with any mob.
There was a whole bruhahah about the Eye Mounted Ring because it was changed to have the effect Transposition (a stoneskin that takes 2 hits and gives power to the whole group), in order to make it more appropriate for Gynok. Then they decided to make a new ring with that effect, which is the ring of blood and rage, and revert the eye mounted ring to its original stats. The problem was that the changed eye mounted ring made it to live anyway (it drops from the first named in the zone) and after about a week they hotfixed it back to its original form. I got burned by that, but that's how it goes.
edit: From the February 5th patch notes:
"Gynok Moltor will no longer drop Stained Mummy Bandages or the Eye Mounted Ring. His drops have been upgraded and new items have been added in place of the ones that were shared."
Edited, Apr 28th 2009 6:44pm by wrapye
There was a whole bruhahah about the Eye Mounted Ring because it was changed to have the effect Transposition (a stoneskin that takes 2 hits and gives power to the whole group), in order to make it more appropriate for Gynok. Then they decided to make a new ring with that effect, which is the ring of blood and rage, and revert the eye mounted ring to its original stats. The problem was that the changed eye mounted ring made it to live anyway (it drops from the first named in the zone) and after about a week they hotfixed it back to its original form. I got burned by that, but that's how it goes.
edit: From the February 5th patch notes:
"Gynok Moltor will no longer drop Stained Mummy Bandages or the Eye Mounted Ring. His drops have been upgraded and new items have been added in place of the ones that were shared."
Edited, Apr 28th 2009 6:44pm by wrapye
Thanks, that helps a lot.
Scholar
44 posts
If you are getting the drop tables from SOE now, any chance of getting the countless items that currently have no drop information updated ?
It used to be possible to come here, see and interesting item and actually find out where it came from.
But recently that has been almost impossible due to the increasing numbers of items that are listed with no drop information at all.
Thanks
It used to be possible to come here, see and interesting item and actually find out where it came from.
But recently that has been almost impossible due to the increasing numbers of items that are listed with no drop information at all.
Thanks
That is in process. I imagine a good portion of those may be vendor found items or ground spawns, others may just be tied to tables that aren't yet fully integrated. If you have any specifics you are referring to, please list them so we can see where they should be and why they are not there yet.
But the short answer is yes, that will most likely occur in the near future.
But the short answer is yes, that will most likely occur in the near future.
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13 posts
Given that two zones that were added to the game are not in the database (Ward of Elements and Munzok's Material Bastion) nor the mobs, items, etc. from those zones, and that Ykesha has no loot assigned to him other than trash body loot, leads me to believe that the data provided by SOE is not particularly fresh. Perhaps a month or two old.
That would lead you to believe incorrectly. It's a driect feed off the game tables. if things are nto showing up, it's because the interface isn't flagged to show things yet, or something needs fixed.
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Has SOE requested that certain things not show up in the ZAM database, like the things I mentioned, until they say they can show up? Do they not want items showing up on ZAM until they are discovered in game?
13 posts
Okay, a little more than two weeks have gone by, and no change to the incorrect data (Gynok's loot table, as an example). Not been able to track down the issue(s) with SOE?
13 posts
/checks on Gynok, still the same data
/checks for Ward of Elements, still not listed in the zone list
/sighs.
/checks for Ward of Elements, still not listed in the zone list
/sighs.
First, the following advisories:
A) Not an admin
B) Not associated with SoE
C) Play the game in question
D) Have worked in several large corporations
So, let me be frank:
Be patient. Kao/Angsty do not pick up the phone and call SoE's head of development and say "Hey, can we get this done by end of business? Thanks!"
They go to their liaison with SoE. The liaison goes to the developers. The Developers confer with marketing or any other division that's involved in making information available, they go back to the liaison to update Alla staff. This process goes on for a while until (A) SoE is happy with the level of secrecy, and (B) Alla is happy with the level of co-operation they have received.
It's not happening overnight, it may not happen for a couple months.
Be patient.
A) Not an admin
B) Not associated with SoE
C) Play the game in question
D) Have worked in several large corporations
So, let me be frank:
Be patient. Kao/Angsty do not pick up the phone and call SoE's head of development and say "Hey, can we get this done by end of business? Thanks!"
They go to their liaison with SoE. The liaison goes to the developers. The Developers confer with marketing or any other division that's involved in making information available, they go back to the liaison to update Alla staff. This process goes on for a while until (A) SoE is happy with the level of secrecy, and (B) Alla is happy with the level of co-operation they have received.
It's not happening overnight, it may not happen for a couple months.
Be patient.
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The idea of old school is way more interesting than the reality
And one crabby line of code can ruin weeks of work.
And its not like SOE or Alla owes you anything.
If Angsty could have access to all the data he wanted and the core of SOE servers Im pretty sure hed be happy, but he doesnt and linking to all that info isnt just a single magical line of code.
And its not like SOE or Alla owes you anything.
If Angsty could have access to all the data he wanted and the core of SOE servers Im pretty sure hed be happy, but he doesnt and linking to all that info isnt just a single magical line of code.
13 posts
Quote:
And its not like SOE or Alla owes you anything.
Ah, I wasn't aware that the money paid for the premium subscription was a donation.
wrapye wrote:
Quote:
And its not like SOE or Alla owes you anything.
Ah, I wasn't aware that the money paid for the premium subscription was a donation.
The money you paid for are for services that, ironically enough, doesn't directly involve the actual game data/content that is parsed from those tables. That information, along with the information regarding any of the site's games (quests, items, etc) is actually free.
Your money pays for forum features, ads removal, and maybe some extra nicknacks the site may have for your game but does nothing for it's content. If you were lead to believe that you had to pay for premium to be able to look up information on your game, not only are you misinformed but also pretty dumb to have wasted money to get info on a game that another site could offer for free.
That aside, you should also check the list of games this site features. Upon doing so, it might allow you to see that the people who run this site are human, limited in numbers, and can only juggle so much at a time. The changes you requested might be on a todo list along with God knows what else.
Please be patient.
-edit to fix typo...depressed sleepless Exo is a dumber than usual Exo-
Edited, May 29th 2009 3:45am by Exodus
13 posts
I know, and it wasn't meant as an attack on those who run the site. It was simply stating that the site is a for-profit operation, that people do pay for services and should therefore expect what the operators claim they are providing. I really doubt that the money I paid is only being used to support those features that the fee is required for.
Think of it like this: I subscribe to the local newspaper. Say the local paper promoted that they would come out with a guide of the restaurants in the area, printing their locations and full menus, kept up to date weekly. That is the reason I am subscribing to the paper. In looking over the first edition of the guide, I check a few restaurants I know well. Several are accurate. There is one that I know closed its doors three months ago. Another is listed at the location it was at two months ago, but they moved. There are no listings for any restaurants that opened in the last month, and I know that a few have opened. One has a listing for a signature dessert, but I know the pastry chef left there two months ago, taking that recipe with him. Am I disappointed? Yes. In part because I now question the reliability of the data on those restaurants I know nothing about. I would likely give the paper some time to get things working better, but if they didn't, I would cancel my subscription.
I'm not utilizing those features that come with the premium subscription. I just figured that Alla could use the funds to keep the site running, and I'm willing to do so as long as they are able to provide me information that I cannot obtain elsewhere for free - even though the information I am interested is being provided for free.
Edited, May 29th 2009 8:39am by wrapye
Think of it like this: I subscribe to the local newspaper. Say the local paper promoted that they would come out with a guide of the restaurants in the area, printing their locations and full menus, kept up to date weekly. That is the reason I am subscribing to the paper. In looking over the first edition of the guide, I check a few restaurants I know well. Several are accurate. There is one that I know closed its doors three months ago. Another is listed at the location it was at two months ago, but they moved. There are no listings for any restaurants that opened in the last month, and I know that a few have opened. One has a listing for a signature dessert, but I know the pastry chef left there two months ago, taking that recipe with him. Am I disappointed? Yes. In part because I now question the reliability of the data on those restaurants I know nothing about. I would likely give the paper some time to get things working better, but if they didn't, I would cancel my subscription.
I'm not utilizing those features that come with the premium subscription. I just figured that Alla could use the funds to keep the site running, and I'm willing to do so as long as they are able to provide me information that I cannot obtain elsewhere for free - even though the information I am interested is being provided for free.
Edited, May 29th 2009 8:39am by wrapye
wrapye wrote:
I know, and it wasn't meant as an attack on those who run the site. It was simply stating that the site is a for-profit operation, that people do pay for services and should therefore expect what the operators claim they are providing. I really doubt that the money I paid is only being used to support those features that the fee is required for.
Think of it like this: I subscribe to the local newspaper. Say the local paper promoted that they would come out with a guide of the restaurants in the area, printing their locations and full menus, kept up to date weekly. That is the reason I am subscribing to the paper. In looking over the first edition of the guide, I check a few restaurants I know well. Several are accurate. There is one that I know closed its doors three months ago. Another is listed at the location it was at two months ago, but they moved. There are no listings for any restaurants that opened in the last month, and I know that a few have opened. One has a listing for a signature dessert, but I know the pastry chef left there two months ago, taking that recipe with him. Am I disappointed? Yes. In part because I now question the reliability of the data on those restaurants I know nothing about. I would likely give the paper some time to get things working better, but if they didn't, I would cancel my subscription.
I'm not utilizing those features that come with the premium subscription. I just figured that Alla could use the funds to keep the site running, and I'm willing to do so as long as they are able to provide me information that I cannot obtain elsewhere for free - even though the information I am interested is being provided for free.
Edited, May 29th 2009 8:39am by wrapye
Think of it like this: I subscribe to the local newspaper. Say the local paper promoted that they would come out with a guide of the restaurants in the area, printing their locations and full menus, kept up to date weekly. That is the reason I am subscribing to the paper. In looking over the first edition of the guide, I check a few restaurants I know well. Several are accurate. There is one that I know closed its doors three months ago. Another is listed at the location it was at two months ago, but they moved. There are no listings for any restaurants that opened in the last month, and I know that a few have opened. One has a listing for a signature dessert, but I know the pastry chef left there two months ago, taking that recipe with him. Am I disappointed? Yes. In part because I now question the reliability of the data on those restaurants I know nothing about. I would likely give the paper some time to get things working better, but if they didn't, I would cancel my subscription.
I'm not utilizing those features that come with the premium subscription. I just figured that Alla could use the funds to keep the site running, and I'm willing to do so as long as they are able to provide me information that I cannot obtain elsewhere for free - even though the information I am interested is being provided for free.
Edited, May 29th 2009 8:39am by wrapye
Yes, but as was said, the admins here are not the ones in control of the information. There is only so much they can do to rectify the erroneous information.
I think they do appreciate (as I do) that you aren't just cussing them out and flaming though. I can tell that you have been willing to be patient and probably will continue to be assuming that what we've said has had an impact
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