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#27 Feb 26 2006 at 3:30 AM Rating: Decent
aerweny wrote:


**edit**: Also was wondering if anyone knew how to say something along the lines of "why are you biased towards english people, I am not biased towards you" in Japanese ; ;

Edited, Fri Feb 17 23:18:44 2006 by aerweny


Yes basicly the only way to get around this is play your job the best you can, and if you happen to get into a JP only party show them you can play and the word will go around.

It's kind of like how we have a good/bad player post on here people read it and try you out in a party if your good you get invite's if you suck you end up DOA and start thinking about quiting or trying a new job.

Don't let this put a damper on your fun because sooner or later people will start to see good players and bad ones that includes all the JP party only people as well. ^^

I went through this same deal my self on my long journey to takeing thf to 75 but now i dont have much trouble geting a party or even makeing my own even including JP only.

All it takes is a lil work to get on their good side but once you do you will see they are same as us and most of them can and will speak english with you if they know and like you.
#28 Feb 26 2006 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
26 posts
Bukkakr check your messages on your allakhazam account...
#29 Feb 26 2006 at 11:44 PM Rating: Good
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259 posts
Although this doesn't seem to apply to your situation (in your case he seemed to clearly not want an english speaker), I have noted the following:

You have to be careful how you respond to Japanese text invites. Often, if you respond with "{I'm sorry} {I don't speak Japanese}" or "{Japanese} {I don't understand}" they percieve that as a rejection. Sometimes simply adding "ok?" or "PT ok"at the end will clarify you are willing to join up as long as they are fine with it.
#30 Mar 03 2006 at 12:20 AM Rating: Decent
33 posts
I am an American living in Japan (and playing the Japanese version of the game), and while I am far from fluent I can generally type enough Japanese to get by in parties (which due to my play hours are all-JPN most of the time).

A few things I have noticed...(any statements I make about Japanese or non-Japanese players is based only on my own experience, and on those players I have personally partied with).

Most Japanese players I've met seem to be extremely friendly, helpful, and willing to go out of their way to help you...IF you are also a Japanese player. In Jeuno, there are two types of shouts from people recruiting or looking for help: Auto-Translated (non-Japanese) and those in Japanese characters only. Four or five times now when I have /shouted for help for some Mission or Quest in Jeuno, I try the Auto-Translate route first and after 1-2 hours switch to Japanese. So far, I have never waited more than a few minutes after switching before offers of help come pouring in. Now, I realize due to my play hours most other people on who can help are Japanese players...but the Auto-Translator is there to reach as many people as possible. In parties as well, Japanese players seem more averse to using it, not sure why. They seem to view using it as the mark of a foreigner. I myself don't care for shouts in Japanese because they are exclusionary.

As for sheer racism...it exists on both sides, but seems much more prevalent from the Japanese. Maybe it's because as one poster said, Japanese players are seen as godly and so they themselves tend to see non-Japanese players as...something inferior. A frequent example: when we have a group of 4-5 players together and the leader is searching to fill the last slot(s). If the only options are English speaking players they will often ask the group's permission before sending any invites out. Now, this can introduce communication problems, so I understand some hesitation...but they also apologize, sometimes profusely as if they are letting the group down when this occurs.

There are more extreme instances where I have /blisted players. In Garlaige we were up late XPing and the leader, who had mentioned he was getting sleepy, dinged to 37. The party asked if he'd like to stop and get some sleep, and he said "No, disbanding just because I level is something a foreigner would do." The rest of the group (except me) echoed agreement and our party went on for another 45 minutes before disbanding. Now, I couldn't disagree with the guy, as I'd seen that behavior a lot and understood why he might have that impression of non-Japanese players. Still, to just say something like that out of the blue...pissed me off.

In Kuftal at 58-59, it was four Japanese members, myself, and a Black Mage who did not speak any Japanese at all. She tried to use the Auto-Translator and our party worked fairly well, until at one point in general banter (which was all in Japanese) I mentioned I was an American. I almost always throw it out there at some point, and most of the time I get a lot of "Eeeeh?" but everyone is fine with it. This time the party immediately began using very rough Japanese to me and bombarding me with advice and criticism about how I was performing as RDM (though I was apparently OK until that point). Worse, the BLM sent me a /tell in English saying she needed to leave but had found a replacement...I said OK, and she Warped away. Before I could explain anything the party flipped out, saying things like "THAT is why you can never trust non-Japanese, they just leave parties with no warning." A bit angry myself at this point, I mentioned they never once spoke a single word NOT in Japanese, never used the Auto-Translator, so of COURSE it would be hard for someone to tell them what was going on. I then told them the BLM had found a replacement and had even waited until the new BLM arrived before Warping, that if they would just invite the new mage we could continue. I ended up /blisting two of that group who refused to hear anything about how they could have handled things better.

All this ranting done, the vast majority of Japanese players I have met in game are very nice, very cool people. Really, JP ONLY folks seem to be a small minority on Bismarck (which is nice). I once asked a Japanese party member straight out why they don't like or trust English players. The answer: almost everyone tries, but one bad experience after another cements the general feeling that Japanese should just stick to playing with Japanese. My more limited experience in English-speaking parties has run the course, good to nightmarish....but I can imagine a language barrier making it even worse.

Still, at the end of the day, we all have to keep trying. We're on the servers together. I have had some god-awful experiences accepting blind invites from people who could not speak any language coherently, but you roll with it. It's a game.

To the OP: maybe that Japanese player had had one too many bad experiences in English parties. Maybe they're a racist jerk. The good news is, either way, that attitude is held by a small minority. The ugly is there, racism exists...but the good players who make the effort far outnumber the bad.

In my experience, anyway.

Edited, Fri Mar 3 00:27:04 2006 by Syranthian
#31 Mar 03 2006 at 3:12 AM Rating: Decent
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199 posts
Wow it must be nice to be able to use japanese in game.....

I'll tell a story myself that is somewhat related. I was lvl'ing my nin in VD and I invited a JP whm and rdm. We were doing ok for a pre-20 party, with good xp and no deaths. Now I don't know Japanese but I can read the Kanji (since I'm an ABC), the two JP said something about "outsiders" or forgniers and "Japanese people", then right after the fight they both disband and join an all JP party.

I'm not saying all JP are like that but it certainly illustrates their superiority complex nicely.

It's a shame that you have to shout your lungs out in jeuno to any kind of help, but do a shout in japanese and help comes pouring in.... Maybe there is a reason the JPs get things done faster and better than us, they tend to help eachother out..... wow now there's a novel concept....

Edited, Fri Mar 3 03:12:57 2006 by bukkakr
#32 Mar 03 2006 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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177 posts
I have to agree with several of the previous posters - a lot of the bias can be explained by bad experiences.

In my 18 months of playing, I've had 3 "Japanese Only" party invites/inquiries - only to be told "Sorry". The last one, I asked the leader to give me a chance first and he surprisingly did. We ended up partying for 3-4 hours - we all leveled and got well into our next level. It was late at nite - I didn't want to have a lot of chatter, just wanted to level. I hit my MBs, I back-up cured, I pulled hate to save another party member (we were in Bibiki, so no Escape), I played my job to the best of my abilities. It was actually a very fun party once everyone realized I was ok with the Japanese banter, I didn't need to be involved in the chatting to have fun. At the end of the party, I got a few "{Impossible to gauge} BLM" comments.

We've all had bad experiences in parties - most of mine seem to have been with English parties, so I can understand the JP reluctance at times to invite an English-speaking player. I speak and read no Japanese - but the basic "language" of the game is having fun, knowing how to do your job, and courtesy/respect for other players regardless of nationality or race.

Zuzeeque

BLM 75/THF 59/RNG 41/WHM 38/NIN 34/RDM 26/WAR 20/SMN 22/BST 22
Shiva O / Titan O / Ramuh O / Garuda O / Leviathan X / Ifrit X

#33 Mar 03 2006 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
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110 posts
Instead of looking at steriotypes and prejudices,

Japanese players can't speak English and the autotranslation isn't that great. If they are to party with English Players, they pretty do their job and shut up. This can be boring, not only for Japanese players but so are English players. Imagine partying for 5hours without say a word...

#34 Mar 03 2006 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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199 posts
When a pt is effective then there really should not be much talking to start with and anything you really need to say can be expressed with autotranslate just fine.

I know we shouldn't look at sterotypes but lets face it, NA are victims of sterotypes and while its easy to say "just ignore it" it is really frustrating when you have 5/6 and the only job that you need is **** ONRY..... Really wish we had different servers, what's the point of putting us all together if one side wants nothing to do with the other?
#35 Mar 03 2006 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
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1,592 posts
Comedic interation?
#36 Mar 17 2006 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
75 brd here, i have been invited to alot of jp parties only to read in their /sea comments after the fact, JP ONLY NA no thanks. i usually stayed in the party cause it was good exp, and
they usually didnt mind trying something unconventional or unusual, being that it was an uncoomon type of party , at times i feel they say j/p only to avoid any fatal communication breakdowns. other times they are just discrimminating douches.
much like mant NA j/p, etc all can be like at times.







brd is the greatest DD . its true, collectivly speaking.
#37 Mar 17 2006 at 1:11 PM Rating: Decent
75 brd here, i have been invited to alot of jp parties only to read in their /sea comments after the fact, JP ONLY NA no thanks. i usually stayed in the party cause it was good exp, and
they usually didnt mind trying something unconventional or unusual, being that it was an uncoomon type of party , at times i feel they say j/p only to avoid any fatal communication breakdowns. other times they are just discrimminating douches.
much like many NA j/p, etc all can be like at times.







brd is the greatest DD . its true, collectivly speaking.
#38 Mar 17 2006 at 4:24 PM Rating: Default
I skipped everything after the 3rd post because frankly you all repeat eachother so much that you can understand most of the thread in the first 3 posts.

the point I was going to make is that japanese don't avoid us because we are "N00bs" they avoid us because we are whiney asses. Japanese players have a play style that doesn't match up with american play style. Where they go to pt and get exp we lfg > ***** and whine for 2 hours > join pt > ***** and whine about slow exp and die on the way to pt > fake dc ... and the funny thing is when we come back they are still there pt'ing getting exp and items and gils.

japanese pt is much more organized typically because they like to be that way. PT leader selects camp and desired pt layout > PT leader checks camp on /search for people in zone > PT leader /tells people with a time for pt (ie. long time 3+ hours short time 2 hours) and location (ie. Bibiki Bay Den of Rancor etc.) and after the pt is assembled everybody leaves from the gathering point and at the end of pt returns to the gathering zone in most cases.

if you want into japanese PTs stop being a racist *** and assuming they don't like you because they are racist. They don't like you because we are all annoying whiney people until we prove otherwise. and don't pretend you don't have your own stereotypes about japanese players. ("OMG they are all so good at math!" )
#39 Mar 18 2006 at 1:09 AM Rating: Decent
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1,315 posts
I don't party with alot of JP because of two things.

1. The majority aren't any better if not worse than English speaking players, being NA or EU, and...

2. They always suddenly break for lunch without warning. Like lunch is super important in their culture or something. ***** lunch.

Plus I get tired of seeing "#$%^&*#$%^ www" every other line...makes me paranoid thinking they are talking about me and I can't even shoot back at them cause I have no idea wtf they just said. And like 90% of them seem to be Taru, and Taru are just weird little things.
#40 Mar 20 2006 at 4:21 AM Rating: Decent
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199 posts
TeamJnag wrote:
I skipped everything after the 3rd post because frankly you all repeat eachother so much that you can understand most of the thread in the first 3 posts.

the point I was going to make is that japanese don't avoid us because we are "N00bs" they avoid us because we are whiney asses. Japanese players have a play style that doesn't match up with american play style. Where they go to pt and get exp we lfg > ***** and whine for 2 hours > join pt > ***** and whine about slow exp and die on the way to pt > fake dc ... and the funny thing is when we come back they are still there pt'ing getting exp and items and gils.

japanese pt is much more organized typically because they like to be that way. PT leader selects camp and desired pt layout > PT leader checks camp on /search for people in zone > PT leader /tells people with a time for pt (ie. long time 3+ hours short time 2 hours) and location (ie. Bibiki Bay Den of Rancor etc.) and after the pt is assembled everybody leaves from the gathering point and at the end of pt returns to the gathering zone in most cases.

if you want into japanese PTs stop being a racist *** and assuming they don't like you because they are racist. They don't like you because we are all annoying whiney people until we prove otherwise. and don't pretend you don't have your own stereotypes about japanese players. ("OMG they are all so good at math!" )


How did you manage to get your lips off the JP's *** log enough to say that? When JP get the benefit of a doubt when NA need to prove it then who's the one being a racist? Please, JP ARE NOT that much better, nor are they that much worse. It's a game and every one plays it pretty much the same.

JP don't whine? How the hell would you know? They don't fake d/c? That's pure crap they do it all the time. At least NA players tell me when they are leaving, JP feel like its too much hassle saying they have to go with autotranslate. "JP pts are so well organized, JP never whine, JP pt are sooo uber" Who's the one with sterotypes now? I thought so you uncle tom.

Edited, Mon Mar 20 04:22:56 2006 by bukkakr
#41 Mar 20 2006 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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135 posts
u know thats so true, when ever i get the pt lead and the pt is like half jp half eng, and the only ppl lfg r JP only, im like well this gona be interesting, so i give the lead to some random JP person, i go "Get Members..." i try to avoid asking JP ppl, because the ans is always JP only i'm sorry.
yah some BS there, i remember this one time where i was making this pt and te only job i needed for the pt were all JP LFG, i ask all of them they said no.
So i gave the leader of the pt to some random JP player in the pt, look and behold yah we got those ppl in the pt, after me complaing to them on how they ask us to pt and we say yes and if we ask them to pt they say no, the person i gave the lead too said to me in a tell, what you said is true, this kind of problem should end and playing in peace.
Im like well... geez thanks for understanding, you guys got n00bs too, and you guys just dont want to admit it, you dont see me going running saying oh dont go pting with that guy he a hardcore n00b or dont lvl with that guy he leaves after 2 fights or dont go lvl with that person over there cause he'll mpk the whole pt.
I later say XP is XP who you go with dont matter aslong as you obtain the next lv closer to the final lv then were all happy. and no one will go home upset or feeling like they just got hosed over.
#42 Mar 20 2006 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
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199 posts
GTC wrote:
u know thats so true, when ever i get the pt lead and the pt is like half jp half eng, and the only ppl lfg r JP only, im like well this gona be interesting, so i give the lead to some random JP person, i go "Get Members..." i try to avoid asking JP ppl, because the ans is always JP only i'm sorry.
yah some BS there, i remember this one time where i was making this pt and te only job i needed for the pt were all JP LFG, i ask all of them they said no.
So i gave the leader of the pt to some random JP player in the pt, look and behold yah we got those ppl in the pt, after me complaing to them on how they ask us to pt and we say yes and if we ask them to pt they say no, the person i gave the lead too said to me in a tell, what you said is true, this kind of problem should end and playing in peace.
Im like well... geez thanks for understanding, you guys got n00bs too, and you guys just dont want to admit it, you dont see me going running saying oh dont go pting with that guy he a hardcore n00b or dont lvl with that guy he leaves after 2 fights or dont go lvl with that person over there cause he'll mpk the whole pt.
I later say XP is XP who you go with dont matter aslong as you obtain the next lv closer to the final lv then were all happy. and no one will go home upset or feeling like they just got hosed over.

That's the secret making a JP pt. JP DD are always a first pick because they are grateful for the invite, they are willing to be the figurehead leader (as long as i'm the one doing all the work). This is exactly how i get all JP and mixed pts during JP high time, and yes I have had JP pld refusing to tank, JP vokers refusing to first voke (or at all), and JP fake d/c'ing on us after tank died.

The morale of the story? Always get a JP DD (drg are the most cooperative^^).
#43 Mar 21 2006 at 5:30 AM Rating: Decent
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212 posts
Well, there are lots of reasons aside from the JP being mean. For instance, the leader could be dealing with friends or friends of friends who are obnoxious or rude about grouping with NA (like cracking anti-NA jokes when NA are in party who can't understand) and just wants to avoid the unpleasantness. Or maybe it's totally inocent and they just want a chatty group.

Either way, it often pays off big to just be polite. I once even got a group invite a bit later just because I sent back "ok, np .. [luck]!" Leader was very apologetic and wanted to make sure I was ok with everyone chatting a lot in kanji. Turned out to be a fun group -- even joked around a bit with 'em in translator.

Even if it doesn't turn out like that, you can comfortably sit back afterwards knowing that the guy now probably feels really guilty about being rude to such a nice person. JP have rude folks, too, but they usually know they're doing it and feel remorse when caught -- very high emphasis on courtesy in their culture. Can you imagine NA kids all shaking hands when in a new party in game? It would be weird even for adult NA. Yet JP young and old all bow to each other when meeting in game. ^^
#44 Mar 21 2006 at 8:32 AM Rating: Decent
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199 posts
OT but i was in jeuno earlier today and I saw a JP /sh that he had a peacock charm for sale. He wanted 18million for it, but then in Kanji he said "Japanese people 16000000" (yes I can read kanji).
#45 Mar 23 2006 at 12:44 AM Rating: Decent
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415 posts
Thank you all for your replies ;3
I realize now that there is racism and stereotyping on both sides...
A bit ago I was talking in my LS and I saw in an LS member's search comment:
"English Onry!"
I thought he was joking so I asked him why he had that in his comment.
He replied with this(and I am NOT joking this is what he said):
"I was taught not to like the japanese because my grandfather was in the war"


...
...
...
...
...
...
hmmm....
WHAT THE F&^%??
gosh ppl...
/sigh...
And no I don't think that jps are any better then english people, or english people are any better then jps.
I have seen many a noob jp player, and they are just as bad as us.
I have gotten invited into a ALL jp party before because, believe it or not, the leader was friends with me ^.^
They are not more organized then our parties are, unless I missed something lol
anyway yeah there is racism on both sides and everyone needs to get over it!!
#46 Mar 30 2006 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
hahaha...Japanese as gods...I've seen the worse of the worse out of them already. They only judge english speaking players as all the same. They think we are rude...lack of respect for each other and suck at playing. Why do you think most English and Japanese players don't get along? Both have different perspective towards game.
#47 Mar 30 2006 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
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1,592 posts
I remember this one time I was running around doing my silly pointless stuff in Jeuno having fun. I wandered over to Maat and saw some Japanese in /say so I wandered over to the little building over there and opened the door. The entire room was filled with JP players just chilling. Some of them spoke some english and I just started joking around like I usually do. Doing my little dance macros (for those of you who know me...oh yesssss that is how I represented NA's to those JP muahahahahha). There was a storm of japanese that filled my screen and even some english ending in wwwww all over the place. I /bow and did some w's back and one of them even said: "this english funnywww". Anyways, we joked back and forth between a mix of english and autotranslate, I asked wut they were doing, turns out a late late late night (for them) level 1 naked race to bastok. They invited me, but I had plans so i politely declined, I joked around w/ my rabbit belt, and all the taru's kept chasing me. Then it was time for them to go, so I /wave and /bow'ed and they all /salute and /bow'ed back, and then they left, and I befriended one of them, the leader of the LS I think it was. Spoke to him a couple more times, then I went off to school, havn't seen him since because of the time difference, not even sure if he still plays, sent a few messages, but no response. But just goes to show ya, there's good and bad on both sides of the language barrier. I was lucky and experienced some of the good.
#48 Apr 18 2006 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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111 posts
there-there now lil tree hugger...

dont let that mean old jp dude get you down. you tell me his name and ill go beat him up and make him xp with you.

(ps, is that lesbian chic still stalking you? got any pics of her she might have sent?)
#49 Apr 18 2006 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
"I was taught not to like the japanese because my grandfather was in the war"

Reminds me of the time I set probably my most offensive /seacom ever:

|P|E|A|R|L| |H|A|R|B|O|R|
My anti-JP party.

Responses? Four people laughed, one person asked what Pearl Harbor was, nobody else paid attention. I think the moral of the story is to leave it up until a GM sees it, but maybe it's just that people don't care. Take what message you will from it, or none at all.
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