Catchy title eh?
Well, i have a theory, and it may not happen for a while...but it will happen, and with the arrivals with new titles like Halo 2 and San Andreas, soon to be a lot more, its bound to happen....
It'll start small with the low levels mainly....places like the dunes will become un-occupied except maybe a few that come there to camp/farm.....this will be because eventually...people are gonna stop buying the game, which we will then suffer from a lack...ok maybe not suffer from...but a lack of noobs, making it virtually impossible to level lower jobs with ease(meaning in a pt, not a plvl), the other thing happening, is that a ton of higher lvls (I.E. Tekkub) are getting too bored and leaving, so invites will get slower, the economy will go down, prices will get higher because of a lack of farmers, people will also turn away at this and leave the game...the appocalypse is at hand!
Well....either that or im paranoid and tired, whichever.
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- Is the end of FFxi nearing day by day?
Is the end of FFxi nearing day by day?Follow
Most people consider that the game really starts at 60. Even at 75. :P If you can't get that high, then the game just isn't for you. ^^
There are so many things great things to do in this game as you get higher, especially with new expansions, so this isn't going to really happen for a looong time. :P
Also, the economy isn't controlled by lower level players, so that's a little wacky what ya said.
There are so many things great things to do in this game as you get higher, especially with new expansions, so this isn't going to really happen for a looong time. :P
Also, the economy isn't controlled by lower level players, so that's a little wacky what ya said.
That's an interesting theory. And it could be happening in these moments.
The game has over 600k subscribers, that could mean that 600k copies of the game have been sold. That's a very small number compared to the copies sold worldwide for let's say FFVII to X.
So the potentials buyers, FF fans, are still out there, the problem is that not all those 4-5 million ppl have all the requirements to play this game (PC with a decent graphic card, internet connection, PS2 with HDD, the money for the monthly fees, the time to play it, etc).
And about the newbs, the EU version of the game just came out some weeks ago, so there are a lot europeans that can join in the following months, so at least the new players will keep coming for some more months.
Besides for someone like you a DRG35, or me a DRK37, there are still plenty things to see and do in the game, and there are several others like us at the mid 30s that have yet a long way to go, to 'finish the game'. And something sure is that,say,in 8 months we're 75, with rank 10 in the 3 countrys, all the Zilaart and Promathia missions done, with all the best armor and the relic weapons, something new will come out from SE, like the lvl 100 cap for example, a new expansion, more jobs, more summons, another world (like in FFIV,V or VI).
So the way i see it is that SE has to keep its Hlvs happy and busy, that for us the Mlvs there will be something to do. And with more 'amazing stuff' say Bahamut, Odin, Ultima and Omega Weapon, the Ultima spell, and all those things that are still missing, the ppl that is still doubting getting on to the game will do it.
The fate of the game is in the SE hands, if they keep the customers happy, an offline game won't take them away for too long.
The game has over 600k subscribers, that could mean that 600k copies of the game have been sold. That's a very small number compared to the copies sold worldwide for let's say FFVII to X.
So the potentials buyers, FF fans, are still out there, the problem is that not all those 4-5 million ppl have all the requirements to play this game (PC with a decent graphic card, internet connection, PS2 with HDD, the money for the monthly fees, the time to play it, etc).
And about the newbs, the EU version of the game just came out some weeks ago, so there are a lot europeans that can join in the following months, so at least the new players will keep coming for some more months.
Besides for someone like you a DRG35, or me a DRK37, there are still plenty things to see and do in the game, and there are several others like us at the mid 30s that have yet a long way to go, to 'finish the game'. And something sure is that,say,in 8 months we're 75, with rank 10 in the 3 countrys, all the Zilaart and Promathia missions done, with all the best armor and the relic weapons, something new will come out from SE, like the lvl 100 cap for example, a new expansion, more jobs, more summons, another world (like in FFIV,V or VI).
So the way i see it is that SE has to keep its Hlvs happy and busy, that for us the Mlvs there will be something to do. And with more 'amazing stuff' say Bahamut, Odin, Ultima and Omega Weapon, the Ultima spell, and all those things that are still missing, the ppl that is still doubting getting on to the game will do it.
The fate of the game is in the SE hands, if they keep the customers happy, an offline game won't take them away for too long.
Scholar
21 posts
I dont think the game is going to end anytime soon worst case scenario if the population drops they will just join servers and bang there you go server population is back up again.
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someone like you a DRG35
and you're right, but the thing is, im finding that spark that was keeping me going is starting to fade....not too sure what im gonna do, but it just doesnt seem important anymore...
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Also, the economy isn't controlled by lower level players, so that's a little wacky what ya said.
Think about it, a lot of lower levels make their gil selling crystals, thats about all they can sell, so, if they stop selling those, then the crystals will be less quantity, meaning the price for them will go up, less gil will be made by people like clothcraft workers because some of the things they make at lower skill levels wont be bought, same goes for weapons, accessories, and all else, wich will definately slow down those that make the clothing because they're technically losing gil, so they dont advance as fast, higher lvl armor wont be made as much, so the price will go up, when you think about it, lower lvls are pretty important
Hrm.... a couple things I should throw in here.
1) I never considered myself a high level ever. Highest I got was 42 (BLM and WHM) and one job to 30 (WAR). I hit 30 about amonth in and at that point I got tired of leveling. That didn't change in the 11 months afterwards.
2) Yes, game starts at, well, not 40.
3) You're forgetting WoW. Open beta's running strong (Bliz closed the signups at 500k across 40 servers). Someone quoted the number 600k for FFXI, well Bliz closed OB signups a few days in because they'd reached 500k... imagine the retail numbers here! They're still working on some issues like LAG! but I have faith. The game is quiet enjoyable and devoid of major timesinks (I got fishing AND cooking to 100 in one night, caps at 300... and I didn't spend but about 2silver doing it, I'd equate that to about 5000g).
4) Chains, in all truth, was a bad move by SE. People (me and others) who didn't like the levegrind whined about the lack of mid-level content. Honestly the game is very heavy on the high level content. They say "we hear your calls, the next expansion will be full of mid level stuff! There will be more content than FFXI+RotZ!). So we get all hyped up and what happens? First, hurricanes ><. More hyping up. We finally get our game and what do we discover? YOu need 18 people to do the first 3 missions. Now we wait for a lot more people to get their copies. Now what do we discover, the boss mobs are very very mean and you have to spend days (yes I spent 3 nights myself) farming for Rare/EX items to help with the boss fights. All in all this was a very big mistake on SE's part and they further distanced themselves from their mid-level players.
5) The one year anniversary. Honestly this happen at the same time as the WoW beta came to light, and that probably had a good impact, but nonetheless... One year in a number of players looked back at their year of FFXI and were not happen with where they were. I sure as hell didn't like how much effort it took me to get as far as I didn't. I always wanted to get my SMN to high high levels, guess how far that got? Level 6.
6) Gilselling. Everyone ******* about fishbots, but in all honesty they never hurt anyone (seriously). The gill farmers/sellers, especially those in Ordelles, do hurt people and drive up the economy. Snipers/Archers rings got insane there near the end of my days, they'd monopolized that market on all the servers from what I've read. There's been numberous reports of the gillfarmers doing anything and everything to keep others from getting the spawn and the drop, training mobs en-masse and all. Don't know if SE even can do anything legally, but banning accounts would be a good idea. They do reserve the right to deny service to anyone for any reason, maybe they should use that right to help make the majority of their customer base happy? If someone came in Wal-Mart, took over sporting goods, and started lobbing soccerballs at anyone who tried to buy a fishing rod before they could claim the night stocker, god knows management would boot them out of their store.
Maybe I'm a whiney ***** (yea I am) and I understand this game was designed for the wonderfully patient JP players, but honestly SE didn't ben over backwards to make their NA players happy. Bliz seems to be trying to create a much different kind of MMO and I personally think a lot of NA FFXI players will fall in love with the game.
Allright, enuf rant. I've said it before I'll say it again... I don't miss FFXI one bit (cept the nice bouncy Galka tail *rowr*)... I do however miss the people I talked with. I spent about 4x more of my time pidling around chatting rather than leveling. If you guys plan on coming over to WoW let me know so that maybe, MAYBE I can have some friends to play with. It's a pain getting people in the beta *sigh*
1) I never considered myself a high level ever. Highest I got was 42 (BLM and WHM) and one job to 30 (WAR). I hit 30 about amonth in and at that point I got tired of leveling. That didn't change in the 11 months afterwards.
2) Yes, game starts at, well, not 40.
3) You're forgetting WoW. Open beta's running strong (Bliz closed the signups at 500k across 40 servers). Someone quoted the number 600k for FFXI, well Bliz closed OB signups a few days in because they'd reached 500k... imagine the retail numbers here! They're still working on some issues like LAG! but I have faith. The game is quiet enjoyable and devoid of major timesinks (I got fishing AND cooking to 100 in one night, caps at 300... and I didn't spend but about 2silver doing it, I'd equate that to about 5000g).
4) Chains, in all truth, was a bad move by SE. People (me and others) who didn't like the levegrind whined about the lack of mid-level content. Honestly the game is very heavy on the high level content. They say "we hear your calls, the next expansion will be full of mid level stuff! There will be more content than FFXI+RotZ!). So we get all hyped up and what happens? First, hurricanes ><. More hyping up. We finally get our game and what do we discover? YOu need 18 people to do the first 3 missions. Now we wait for a lot more people to get their copies. Now what do we discover, the boss mobs are very very mean and you have to spend days (yes I spent 3 nights myself) farming for Rare/EX items to help with the boss fights. All in all this was a very big mistake on SE's part and they further distanced themselves from their mid-level players.
5) The one year anniversary. Honestly this happen at the same time as the WoW beta came to light, and that probably had a good impact, but nonetheless... One year in a number of players looked back at their year of FFXI and were not happen with where they were. I sure as hell didn't like how much effort it took me to get as far as I didn't. I always wanted to get my SMN to high high levels, guess how far that got? Level 6.
6) Gilselling. Everyone ******* about fishbots, but in all honesty they never hurt anyone (seriously). The gill farmers/sellers, especially those in Ordelles, do hurt people and drive up the economy. Snipers/Archers rings got insane there near the end of my days, they'd monopolized that market on all the servers from what I've read. There's been numberous reports of the gillfarmers doing anything and everything to keep others from getting the spawn and the drop, training mobs en-masse and all. Don't know if SE even can do anything legally, but banning accounts would be a good idea. They do reserve the right to deny service to anyone for any reason, maybe they should use that right to help make the majority of their customer base happy? If someone came in Wal-Mart, took over sporting goods, and started lobbing soccerballs at anyone who tried to buy a fishing rod before they could claim the night stocker, god knows management would boot them out of their store.
Maybe I'm a whiney ***** (yea I am) and I understand this game was designed for the wonderfully patient JP players, but honestly SE didn't ben over backwards to make their NA players happy. Bliz seems to be trying to create a much different kind of MMO and I personally think a lot of NA FFXI players will fall in love with the game.
Allright, enuf rant. I've said it before I'll say it again... I don't miss FFXI one bit (cept the nice bouncy Galka tail *rowr*)... I do however miss the people I talked with. I spent about 4x more of my time pidling around chatting rather than leveling. If you guys plan on coming over to WoW let me know so that maybe, MAYBE I can have some friends to play with. It's a pain getting people in the beta *sigh*
yep tek, xi wasn't the 'game' for you it seems, the lvling and CoP missions at least. From what I've heard and read about WOW, it doesn't seem to be my type of game. but I cannot refute your points, they are well crafted and true. just too bad there isn't something SE coulda done to blend the two concepts a bit more and make the lvls shorter/faster.
cause I can easily see myself going crazy even before I hit 50 ><
love the fame guide btw ^^
Edited, Sat Nov 13 03:34:29 2004 by ffxirandomname
cause I can easily see myself going crazy even before I hit 50 ><
love the fame guide btw ^^
Edited, Sat Nov 13 03:34:29 2004 by ffxirandomname
Scholar
48 posts
Sorry to hear you hate the game so bad. I was like that with a previous game I was playing and that's why my husband and I came here. I've looked at the Beta for WoW, we've signed up for the beta, but it doesn't seem like my kind of game. The graphics are too animated. I love the idea of some of the jobs though. I'm a night elf myself :)
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3) You're forgetting WoW. Open beta's running strong (Bliz closed the signups at 500k across 40 servers). Someone quoted the number 600k for FFXI, well Bliz closed OB signups a few days in because they'd reached 500k... imagine the retail numbers here! They're still working on some issues like LAG! but I have faith. The game is quiet enjoyable and devoid of major timesinks (I got fishing AND cooking to 100 in one night, caps at 300... and I didn't spend but about 2silver doing it, I'd equate that to about 5000g).
There's a small difference between WoW and FFXI: Warcraft is a PC game, Final Fantasy a console game.
So, even that this is not completely true, all the warcraft fans have a PC already, and for sure they have internet, and the PC players are used to play online games since years ago, and maybe to pay monthly fees, doesn't mind Counter Strike though, while the majority of the console player aren't used to pay extra money to play a game after purchasing the game.
And FFXI is a game for Final Fantasy fans firstly and most that anything else, FFXI isn't just another MMORPG for MMORPG players, is a niche game, with its really big niche being on console,not PC. Something similar happens with Star Wars Galaxies, though it's for console and pc players alike, it is for Satr Wars FANS, not for MMORPG fans, but that's a different thing.
Well my point is: the WoW's 500k beta signups are surely great for a MMORPG, and it might be the game to make MMORPGs more popular with the mainstream, but the only costumers that it would steal to FFXI are those who aren't really FF fans.
I'm playing FFXI not because is the best MMORPG or the one with more players or just to try another MMORPG, i'm playing it because i'm a FF fan, and i like to finish FF games, so i'll keep going until my rl stops me from playing or until FFXI-2 (lol) comes out and then i'll have to move over there.
Well, those are my 2 gil on the matter.
Edit: All the text was in bold >.>
Edited, Sat Nov 13 11:26:47 2004 by Khrno
Hrm. I have to disagree with you there. Yes, in JP the game was on PS2 first, but the issue here is FFXI in NA, not JP. Hate to say it but it was out on PC first, many many months before it hit PS2. Anyone who started on PC release can tell you that the general "attitude" of the players changed quite drastically upon release of the PS2 version.
As for the graphics of WoW, are you basing this off screenshots or your own personal in-game experience? I will contest that the graphics are not as realistic as FFXI, but they're still quite beautiful. Also, have you played any other warcraft game? If you have than you will be quite amazed at how Bliz did a good job of changing the old warcraft game design into a MMO. You really do feel like you're a lil peon in a game when you see that the inns are always the same for a race, or that there's a graveyard in at least one city per zone... it just FEELS like you're in the warcraft world, not some cheap knockoff adapted to better suit a MMO. Besides that, the game really does look better in motion than in screenshots. I don't know why that is. Lastly, graphics are only a small pat of the game, what you need to look at, what sets this game so far apart from FFXI and EQ, are the game mechanics. You can read all the details of the game mechanics on the WoW homepage. Bliz does a very good job of explaining everything, I do mean everything. SE was often very vague when it came to game mechanics. What's food do? Eat it and you might be able to figure it out... in WoW it flat out tells you in the description exactly what the food will do.
Bliz has done a very good job of learning from other MMO's mistakes, drop the levelgrind, spread content across the level spectrum, drop the fog off game mechanics, make mob-training on other players immpossible, make a bot-proff fishing system, heck for that matter make fishing worth the time but not so worth it that anyone would want to bot it. Crafting is simple and very USEFUL, not a money sink... the list goes on. Look beyond the surface (graphics) and you might like the game. If you don't fine by me I understand, but a simple "it looks cartoony" isn't giving it a chance.
And i"m late to work again... I hate you all.
As for the graphics of WoW, are you basing this off screenshots or your own personal in-game experience? I will contest that the graphics are not as realistic as FFXI, but they're still quite beautiful. Also, have you played any other warcraft game? If you have than you will be quite amazed at how Bliz did a good job of changing the old warcraft game design into a MMO. You really do feel like you're a lil peon in a game when you see that the inns are always the same for a race, or that there's a graveyard in at least one city per zone... it just FEELS like you're in the warcraft world, not some cheap knockoff adapted to better suit a MMO. Besides that, the game really does look better in motion than in screenshots. I don't know why that is. Lastly, graphics are only a small pat of the game, what you need to look at, what sets this game so far apart from FFXI and EQ, are the game mechanics. You can read all the details of the game mechanics on the WoW homepage. Bliz does a very good job of explaining everything, I do mean everything. SE was often very vague when it came to game mechanics. What's food do? Eat it and you might be able to figure it out... in WoW it flat out tells you in the description exactly what the food will do.
Bliz has done a very good job of learning from other MMO's mistakes, drop the levelgrind, spread content across the level spectrum, drop the fog off game mechanics, make mob-training on other players immpossible, make a bot-proff fishing system, heck for that matter make fishing worth the time but not so worth it that anyone would want to bot it. Crafting is simple and very USEFUL, not a money sink... the list goes on. Look beyond the surface (graphics) and you might like the game. If you don't fine by me I understand, but a simple "it looks cartoony" isn't giving it a chance.
And i"m late to work again... I hate you all.
Nooooo, the end of FFXI will come when everyone finds out SE runs CCSS (Childrens Chinese Sweat Shops).
::has gone insane::
::has gone insane::
errr....how did we go from my theory that people are gonna say eff you and leave ff11....to a debate between it and WoW
Cause I pointed out that WoW is a big reason a number of people are leaving and someone debated that :P
Sorry if i went out of the line, but i'm just defending my point why FFXI won't lose his main user base to WoW
Yeah i know that very well, i'm in England, i started playing this game in PC 6 months ago. And i know very well that the Pc version came out for the PC in NA first, i wanted to buy the game since it came out one year ago, but couldn't at that time.
Anyway, i pointed that already, from that large FF fan base, not everybody, but a small percent, has a PC, with a decent Graphic Card, internet connection, the money for the monthly fees and the time to waste in this game. Those are the reason why there are only half millon players and not 5 million.
And i'll say again.. WoW is a game for targeted for PC players and PC players mostly.
Just if you don't know what i'm talking about there are 2 big groups of players, the PC and the Console players, if you don't know about that, you don't know too much about videogames.
I wasn't talking about graphics, besides Lineage 2 has better graphics than FFXI, this is a 2 year and a half old game. A game are not simple graphics, if you just want graphics then go play Doom 3, just while you waiting for Hal Life 2 that's it.
I haven't played the beta of WoW, so i can't say how is it, but i've watched videos and the animations and effects look awesome, way better than the poor animations from the sc here for example.
But i wasn't debating which is the best game, i think i emphasized my point:
The user fan base target
WoW is not a game targeted to FF fans, not even Console players, is a game for MMORPG players, Warcraft fans and PC players.
And that's why WoW won't take the main user base from FFXI... is it like the third or fourth time that i say this in this topic?
Btw, i don't hate tekkub, i just don't give a f*k about him ^^
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Hrm. I have to disagree with you there. Yes, in JP the game was on PS2 first, but the issue here is FFXI in NA, not JP. Hate to say it but it was out on PC first, many many months before it hit PS2. Anyone who started on PC release can tell you that the general "attitude" of the players changed quite drastically upon release of the PS2 version.
Yeah i know that very well, i'm in England, i started playing this game in PC 6 months ago. And i know very well that the Pc version came out for the PC in NA first, i wanted to buy the game since it came out one year ago, but couldn't at that time.
Anyway, i pointed that already, from that large FF fan base, not everybody, but a small percent, has a PC, with a decent Graphic Card, internet connection, the money for the monthly fees and the time to waste in this game. Those are the reason why there are only half millon players and not 5 million.
And i'll say again.. WoW is a game for targeted for PC players and PC players mostly.
Just if you don't know what i'm talking about there are 2 big groups of players, the PC and the Console players, if you don't know about that, you don't know too much about videogames.
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As for the graphics of WoW
I wasn't talking about graphics, besides Lineage 2 has better graphics than FFXI, this is a 2 year and a half old game. A game are not simple graphics, if you just want graphics then go play Doom 3, just while you waiting for Hal Life 2 that's it.
I haven't played the beta of WoW, so i can't say how is it, but i've watched videos and the animations and effects look awesome, way better than the poor animations from the sc here for example.
But i wasn't debating which is the best game, i think i emphasized my point:
The user fan base target
WoW is not a game targeted to FF fans, not even Console players, is a game for MMORPG players, Warcraft fans and PC players.
And that's why WoW won't take the main user base from FFXI... is it like the third or fourth time that i say this in this topic?
Btw, i don't hate tekkub, i just don't give a f*k about him ^^
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Catchy title eh?
No.
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Well, i have a theory, and it may not happen for a while...but it will happen, and with the arrivals with new titles like Halo 2 and San Andreas, soon to be a lot more, its bound to happen....
Shooter games effect FFXI? Land on the gumdrop and advance 3 spaces, mmmk. MMORPGs will effect MMORPGs. Allow me to reiterate: MMORPGs effect MMORPGs. WoW will effect FFXI. EQ2 will effect FFXI. Guild Wars will effect FFXI. GTA: SA will not effect FFXI. Halo 2 will not effect FFXI. Sanrio Online will effect FFXI. Games in other catergories don't effect games in a different catergory. For example, would you quit playing CS, and while looking for another shooter, go and play Mario? No, you want another shooter, you'll take up, say, Battlefield, Halo, or another popular FPS. People may not like WoW or EQ2, and they'll come to FFXI. 2 people that I know are just playing WoW to try it, then they're coming back to FFXI. 3 people that I know are taking a break from FFXI until January to play EQ2 and such, which isn't bad, it's logical - see what everything is about and then come back to FFXI.
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It'll start small with the low levels mainly....places like the dunes will become un-occupied except maybe a few that come there to camp/farm.....this will be because eventually...people are gonna stop buying the game, which we will then suffer from a lack...ok maybe not suffer from...but a lack of noobs, making it virtually impossible to level lower jobs with ease...
Won't this be a good thing? Less noob parties means less dying which means you get the heck outta the Dunes faster. Heck, KoN I heard is starting their 2nd jobs, so that puts 50~ Rank 10 pros right into the mix of the low levels.
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...the other thing happening, is that a ton of higher lvls (I.E. Tekkub) are getting too bored and leaving, so invites will get slower, the economy will go down, prices will get higher because of a lack of farmers, people will also turn away at this and leave the game...the appocalypse is at hand!
You're SEVERLY wrong saying that low-levels are the source of crystals. Did you forget about Elementals? The new NM when there aren't any more noobs around to keep the crystals coming (which, by the way, anyone with Signet at any level can get), people'll get crystals from Elementals, which keeps the ecomny strong. Any level can fight Elementals, and in turn get clusters, regardless of anything at all. Saying there'll be a lack of farmers is strange because if there isn't, people will just go farm their own stuff, or get THF up. Saying there won't be any more parties for everyone is false too, because who knows, people'll go and play WoW/EQ2/Halo 2/GTA: SA and maybe just play FFXI on the weekends. Maybe FFXI is a weekend game only, which is what I'm beginning to make of it. Farm for an hour or so a day and play hard/party on the weekends. But saying that the end is near is like saying WoW will suck everyone off FFXI. It just won't people'll still play FFXI, maybe WoW, hell, maybe both. And to say you're tired of the game at pre-40 is very...dumb. You're DRG, a dying bread sadly ( I love DRGs :( ) Take up another job. I did a /sea all 1-30 and there was 1/3 of the population is 1-30, which was 896 when I took a test last weekend. 31-50 was 1/3 and that leaves 1/3 to be /anon or 51-75. Pretty even, huh? The people that are good players and loyal to FFXI will make this game good. Saying people will turn and leave the game because of a 'lack of farmers' is...not stupid, not smart, but a different way to look at it. I think that people that farm and such are really promoting the econmy, and the only time when there aren't farmers will be when there aren't any crafters, which'll be never. You're not paranoid, you're not tired, you just have a different view on it.
This isn't a flame, ^^~
PSST - Stick around until 60, you won't regret it.
Khrno, I was not JUST replying to you man. Someone else made mention of the graphics and it was that person to which I was replying in that part of the re-rant.
I think you're point as to PC vs. PS2 is totally right, but I think you're missing the scope of the matter. I do not know, for a fact, how many players are PS2 vs. PC but I wouldn't expect more than half to be PS2ers. Shep's point about the "higher levels" leaving the game... how many of those higher level players do you think started on PS2? The other half of it is that every PS2 player I've known whose seen the game on PS2 has, well, stopped playing it on PS2. PS2 looks like ****, sorry but it does. What about that whole "new hardware" thing? Well how long has the game been out for PC in JP? I was written for hardware that's about, oh, year and a half to 2 years old. When I started playing I was on a cheap $40 Nvidia GeForce2 and it was quite comperable to a PS2. Now the PS2 version costs $50 more than PC (at least it did before CoP). So you have a "okey" computer and you throw a nice little $50 card in it and you get the same effect, if not better, than PS2.
Anyway, no the PS2 gamers that don't have a computer aren't going to leave the game cause of WoW. Thing of it is, a number of those players are a lot more likely to leave the game because their parents decinde they can't use the credit card anymore.
And don't think I'm judging a whole console player group here, I own both PC and PS2 versions.
Anyway, the highest level american players are going to have at least started on PC. PS2-only players won't leave for WoW unless they decide it's really worth it to sink the money into (or harass the parents for) a new computer to play it.
And no, I don't hate you either, I just don't give a **** about your opinion but am more than willing to debate as long as things stay civil and this doesn't degrade to a flame war.
And Shep stop your whining you whiny whiner and come over to the "dark" side with me ^^
Edited, Sat Nov 13 19:54:28 2004 by tekkub
I think you're point as to PC vs. PS2 is totally right, but I think you're missing the scope of the matter. I do not know, for a fact, how many players are PS2 vs. PC but I wouldn't expect more than half to be PS2ers. Shep's point about the "higher levels" leaving the game... how many of those higher level players do you think started on PS2? The other half of it is that every PS2 player I've known whose seen the game on PS2 has, well, stopped playing it on PS2. PS2 looks like ****, sorry but it does. What about that whole "new hardware" thing? Well how long has the game been out for PC in JP? I was written for hardware that's about, oh, year and a half to 2 years old. When I started playing I was on a cheap $40 Nvidia GeForce2 and it was quite comperable to a PS2. Now the PS2 version costs $50 more than PC (at least it did before CoP). So you have a "okey" computer and you throw a nice little $50 card in it and you get the same effect, if not better, than PS2.
Anyway, no the PS2 gamers that don't have a computer aren't going to leave the game cause of WoW. Thing of it is, a number of those players are a lot more likely to leave the game because their parents decinde they can't use the credit card anymore.
And don't think I'm judging a whole console player group here, I own both PC and PS2 versions.
Anyway, the highest level american players are going to have at least started on PC. PS2-only players won't leave for WoW unless they decide it's really worth it to sink the money into (or harass the parents for) a new computer to play it.
And no, I don't hate you either, I just don't give a **** about your opinion but am more than willing to debate as long as things stay civil and this doesn't degrade to a flame war.
And Shep stop your whining you whiny whiner and come over to the "dark" side with me ^^
Edited, Sat Nov 13 19:54:28 2004 by tekkub
The fact is, Tekkub, its sound like you spent too much time ************ and not leveling. Don't hold it against the game manufacturer because you are too lazy to level up. It's a known fact you need to be above 50 to access 90% of this games features and you never dedicated yourself to reach it. I don't mean to flame, it's just the brutal truth.
You might have fun with WoW now, but wait till it's fully released. It will be just like Blizzard's other flop Diablo 2, nothing but duping, scamming, map hacking, 10 year olds. Why would you want to pay for a game where you can reach max level in a week?
EDIT: And I just wanted to add that you seem like a very nice guy, but you didn't dedicate yourself to the game to maximize your return. I'm just being honest.
Edited, Sat Nov 13 20:53:12 2004 by Eccentricity
You might have fun with WoW now, but wait till it's fully released. It will be just like Blizzard's other flop Diablo 2, nothing but duping, scamming, map hacking, 10 year olds. Why would you want to pay for a game where you can reach max level in a week?
EDIT: And I just wanted to add that you seem like a very nice guy, but you didn't dedicate yourself to the game to maximize your return. I'm just being honest.
Edited, Sat Nov 13 20:53:12 2004 by Eccentricity
Heh, you don't understand me at all man. It's not a matter of lazyness or dedication. I spent a lot of time in the game doing a lot of stuff. Frankly I found levelgrinding not fun in the slightest. Same thing over and over again with no change. I've been leveling like mad in WoW, when I can get online. What's the difference? In WoW I get a quest to go kill 10 of this and 8 of that. I do that, takes me say 20 minutes. I come back, turn those in. Now I get a new quest to get 6 of this item. I go to a new area and kill something different for 10 minutes and come back again. Yes, the leveling curve is faster but my point is this: the game give you new things to do and kill all the time. You really aren't levelgrinding you're just questing. My roomie asks me what level am and my reply is usually "I dunno 11 or something".
Yea maybe my problem is dedication. I think that a game should be fun. Dedicating myself to leveling for 4 months straight to be able to experience the plotline of my game just doesn't feel right. Games are about having fun while being challeneged and working hard. They're not about working hard so that the last 10% of your gametime is fun. That is the difference in playstyles that makes FFXI not the game for me.
I've watched a lot of people and how they level, you tend to go thru alot of friends when you stay at one level for months. I know a lot of people who have quit and I can tell you the #1 reason people leave is the grinding and the tedium. FFXI is a HUGE timesink. Yes, games are supposed to be fun ways to waste time, but FFXI walks a thin line between being fun and being tedious. Once a players views the game as tedious it's a short road to them leaving for good.
To tell you the truth, I never played D2 or any other bliz game for that matter. I'm not really a gamer in truth. I'd not touched a game in years before I started FFXI. I put in a year, didn't like where I'd gotten or what I had to do to get there. If FFXI is your thing and you enjoy it, more power to you. I've read all the plot through about chains chapter 3 and there is a very good strong plotline to the game. It's just a crying shame that when you're 50% through the leveling specturm you aren't 50% through the plotline. I probably would have stayed if that was the case, but it's not. Hopefully Bliz will work hard to keep their game in control and not let the "chineese gilsellers" impact their game like it has FFXI. I honestly feel the foundation game mechanics have been well planned out to make "doing it yourself" very rewarding as opposed to paying "real money" to make your game experience more enjoyable.
Because I have fun doing it. I can play a number of jobs to limit and still have new things to do. I'm not a power gamer anyways, I have to work for a living. If it takes a month of hard work to get 60 I'm fine with that. Let me ask you this:
Why would you want to pay for a game where everything (literally everything) requires hours of doing the exact same thi ng over and over again and usually requires at least 5 other players of the proper job balance to accomplish?
Yes, the beta is down (gotta love the weekend MASS of players) and I have nothing better to do :P
Edited, Sat Nov 13 22:04:52 2004 by tekkub
Edited, Sat Nov 13 22:11:39 2004 by tekkub
Yea maybe my problem is dedication. I think that a game should be fun. Dedicating myself to leveling for 4 months straight to be able to experience the plotline of my game just doesn't feel right. Games are about having fun while being challeneged and working hard. They're not about working hard so that the last 10% of your gametime is fun. That is the difference in playstyles that makes FFXI not the game for me.
I've watched a lot of people and how they level, you tend to go thru alot of friends when you stay at one level for months. I know a lot of people who have quit and I can tell you the #1 reason people leave is the grinding and the tedium. FFXI is a HUGE timesink. Yes, games are supposed to be fun ways to waste time, but FFXI walks a thin line between being fun and being tedious. Once a players views the game as tedious it's a short road to them leaving for good.
To tell you the truth, I never played D2 or any other bliz game for that matter. I'm not really a gamer in truth. I'd not touched a game in years before I started FFXI. I put in a year, didn't like where I'd gotten or what I had to do to get there. If FFXI is your thing and you enjoy it, more power to you. I've read all the plot through about chains chapter 3 and there is a very good strong plotline to the game. It's just a crying shame that when you're 50% through the leveling specturm you aren't 50% through the plotline. I probably would have stayed if that was the case, but it's not. Hopefully Bliz will work hard to keep their game in control and not let the "chineese gilsellers" impact their game like it has FFXI. I honestly feel the foundation game mechanics have been well planned out to make "doing it yourself" very rewarding as opposed to paying "real money" to make your game experience more enjoyable.
Quote:
Why would you want to pay for a game where you can reach max level in a week?
Why would you want to pay for a game where everything (literally everything) requires hours of doing the exact same thi ng over and over again and usually requires at least 5 other players of the proper job balance to accomplish?
Yes, the beta is down (gotta love the weekend MASS of players) and I have nothing better to do :P
Edited, Sat Nov 13 22:04:52 2004 by tekkub
Edited, Sat Nov 13 22:11:39 2004 by tekkub
my answer to u The One and Only tekkub is simple and its only 1 word. "friends" =) i've made many friends on FF and thats what keeps me going =D
"Friends," after month one was over, were really the only reason I stayed. I didn't stay inthe game to level, and I only leveled in the rare chances that all 5 of a certain group of "friends" happened to be on at the same time.
I got your points man Tekkub. But still i mantain my position with the user fan base and target market of both games.
This is one if not the biggest problem from FFXI, you expend too much time leveling up, but that's kinda relative, get a good party and you could getting a new lvl every hour or hour and a half around the mid 30s (37 my current lvl).
And yes, it is group focused, why? Because all the other "10" FFs plus spin offs and secuels, don't count Crystal Chronicles, are solo games, you and only you are needed to beat the game, in 20, 40, 60 or if you want to get everything, 100 hours and that's all. But that's the difference with XI, you need to socialize, idea that i don't like but throught the game and to complete goals i'd get used to.
Why would you want to play a MMORPG soloing anyway? Save the money from the monthly fees and buy more offline RPGs, there's Tales of Symphonia, Baten Kaitos or Paper Mario, if you have a GC that's it, cuz i don't think there are any new RPGs for PS2 right now. Or if you want FF get the classics Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls for GBA.
How i said, i know is a pain to waste so many time lvling up, but with the proper ppl the time will be less and you'll have fun getting the exp.
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Why would you want to pay for a game where everything (literally everything) requires hours of doing the exact same thing over and over again and usually requires at least 5 other players of the proper job balance to accomplish?
This is one if not the biggest problem from FFXI, you expend too much time leveling up, but that's kinda relative, get a good party and you could getting a new lvl every hour or hour and a half around the mid 30s (37 my current lvl).
And yes, it is group focused, why? Because all the other "10" FFs plus spin offs and secuels, don't count Crystal Chronicles, are solo games, you and only you are needed to beat the game, in 20, 40, 60 or if you want to get everything, 100 hours and that's all. But that's the difference with XI, you need to socialize, idea that i don't like but throught the game and to complete goals i'd get used to.
Why would you want to play a MMORPG soloing anyway? Save the money from the monthly fees and buy more offline RPGs, there's Tales of Symphonia, Baten Kaitos or Paper Mario, if you have a GC that's it, cuz i don't think there are any new RPGs for PS2 right now. Or if you want FF get the classics Final Fantasy I & II: Dawn of Souls for GBA.
How i said, i know is a pain to waste so many time lvling up, but with the proper ppl the time will be less and you'll have fun getting the exp.
Ah but "proper fun parties" seemed to be rather rare unless you were playing with a small group of friends (a static party). The thing that turns me on to WoW is that I can play with a small group of friends, but I'm not REQUIRED to have 5 friends with me every time I leave town. Being a WHM I was afraid of any mob not 20 levels below me, and even then it got iffy sometimes. I can run thru aggroing mobs 5 levels above me and not expect certain death in WoW.
I think the point of an MMO is to play nicely with others, make friends, and have fun with them. Being forced to group with 5 other people might have good intent, but in the end it forces you to group with dolts a lot. If I find someone I enjoy playing with in WoW, I can duo with them for a while and foster a much better relationship than playing with random players for a few hours and that's all.
I don't want to play the game solo, I want to play with friends. I don't want to play with 5 other people every night, especially when it's random thrown-together and the success of the group is dependant on a good balance of jobs and everyone playing at their absolute best. Variety is a good thing, sometimes I solo, sometimes I level with my BF, sometimes with a random person who's killing the same stuff as me. Later on (post 25 I think) I can get into instances, nice little quiet (no other parties to deal with) dungeon runs with 4 friends. High high up I get the fun of mass raids on enemy towns. We're not talking Dynamis here with it's precision tactics and huge expense, we're talking getting together every other horde (or alliance) player you can find and going to an enemy town and fighting with NPCs and players. What do you get from a raid, nothing but good times and bragging rights (even though they can't understand what ou're saying). What did I do in FFXI... kill crabs mandies and crawlers and crabs... and crabs....
Again, it's a difference in playstyles really, WoW is going to appeal to the "casual" gamers like me a lot more than the "hardcore dedicated levelgrinders" like FFXI will.
Edited, Sun Nov 14 04:47:09 2004 by tekkub
I think the point of an MMO is to play nicely with others, make friends, and have fun with them. Being forced to group with 5 other people might have good intent, but in the end it forces you to group with dolts a lot. If I find someone I enjoy playing with in WoW, I can duo with them for a while and foster a much better relationship than playing with random players for a few hours and that's all.
I don't want to play the game solo, I want to play with friends. I don't want to play with 5 other people every night, especially when it's random thrown-together and the success of the group is dependant on a good balance of jobs and everyone playing at their absolute best. Variety is a good thing, sometimes I solo, sometimes I level with my BF, sometimes with a random person who's killing the same stuff as me. Later on (post 25 I think) I can get into instances, nice little quiet (no other parties to deal with) dungeon runs with 4 friends. High high up I get the fun of mass raids on enemy towns. We're not talking Dynamis here with it's precision tactics and huge expense, we're talking getting together every other horde (or alliance) player you can find and going to an enemy town and fighting with NPCs and players. What do you get from a raid, nothing but good times and bragging rights (even though they can't understand what ou're saying). What did I do in FFXI... kill crabs mandies and crawlers and crabs... and crabs....
Again, it's a difference in playstyles really, WoW is going to appeal to the "casual" gamers like me a lot more than the "hardcore dedicated levelgrinders" like FFXI will.
Edited, Sun Nov 14 04:47:09 2004 by tekkub
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Well, i have a theory, and it may not happen for a while...but it will happen, and with the arrivals with new titles like Halo 2 and San Andreas, soon to be a lot more, its bound to happen....
Shooter games effect FFXI? Land on the gumdrop and advance 3 spaces, mmmk. MMORPGs will effect MMORPGs. Allow me to reiterate: MMORPGs effect MMORPGs. WoW will effect FFXI. EQ2 will effect FFXI. Guild Wars will effect FFXI. GTA: SA will not effect FFXI. Halo 2 will not effect FFXI.
Well, i have a theory, and it may not happen for a while...but it will happen, and with the arrivals with new titles like Halo 2 and San Andreas, soon to be a lot more, its bound to happen....
Shooter games effect FFXI? Land on the gumdrop and advance 3 spaces, mmmk. MMORPGs will effect MMORPGs. Allow me to reiterate: MMORPGs effect MMORPGs. WoW will effect FFXI. EQ2 will effect FFXI. Guild Wars will effect FFXI. GTA: SA will not effect FFXI. Halo 2 will not effect FFXI.
First off, its true, and i know this for a fact, i know at least 15 people that left FFxi for san andreas, and thats just me and my little friends group, also, i know for a fact people are leaving for the "Shooter rpg" Halo 2, because im one of them, im finding it a lot more interesting and fun right now, and i dont see that changing in the near future thanks to systems links and online fights with my friends.
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It'll start small with the low levels mainly....places like the dunes will become un-occupied except maybe a few that come there to camp/farm.....this will be because eventually...people are gonna stop buying the game, which we will then suffer from a lack...ok maybe not suffer from...but a lack of noobs, making it virtually impossible to level lower jobs with ease...
Won't this be a good thing? Less noob parties means less dying which means you get the heck outta the Dunes faster.
It'll start small with the low levels mainly....places like the dunes will become un-occupied except maybe a few that come there to camp/farm.....this will be because eventually...people are gonna stop buying the game, which we will then suffer from a lack...ok maybe not suffer from...but a lack of noobs, making it virtually impossible to level lower jobs with ease...
Won't this be a good thing? Less noob parties means less dying which means you get the heck outta the Dunes faster.
No, not in the least, even if it does clear out, its gonna take AGES to get a pt there, because even if it is all higher lvl's, that doesnt mean you're all in the same level range, i've noticed lately the # of people in the dunes dropping, it was in the high 90's when i was there a while back with my war, and even DRG, but now its in mid 60's to low 70's each day, and without people for even just fillers, ur screwed.
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Heck, KoN I heard is starting their 2nd jobs, so that puts 50~ Rank 10 pros right into the mix of the low levels.
A)you dont have to be rank 10 to be a pro
B)just because you are one, you can still be the biggest noob in the whole game.
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You're SEVERLY wrong saying that low-levels are the source of crystals. Did you forget about Elementals? The new NM when there aren't any more noobs around to keep the crystals coming (which, by the way, anyone with Signet at any level can get), people'll get crystals from Elementals,
I never said that noobs were the main source of crystals, all i said was the price will go up because, a newsflash for you, CRAFTERS DONT USUALLY WASTE TIME GOING OUT TO FARM THEM, the money the make off of what they sell, usually covers enough for a stack to make more of it, but when the price goes higher thats gonna get to be a problem, a buncha people might get pissed off at this, and possibly leave the game if they're irritated enough at some other things in it.
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Any level can fight Elementals,
the day i see anything under lvl 15 win against one, ill agree with you.
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Saying there'll be a lack of farmers is strange because if there isn't, people will just go farm their own stuff, or get THF up
hmm, getting thf up might be hard IF THERE ARENT PT's IN THE DUNES TO DO IT WITH.
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But saying that the end is near is like saying WoW will suck everyone off FFXI.
i didnt say anything remotly like that...and dont see how it has any relevance to what i did say, because really, saying the end is near...not to mention i also said this might not be anytime soon...but i never said it had anything to do with WoW.
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And to say you're tired of the game at pre-40 is very...dumb
its not dumb in my case, im tired of it, it's boring waiting for 3+ hours for a pt thats prolly not gonna happen anyways, but its not that even, it's some of the dumb assed people ive met on it, sadly most of them are ego-maniacle pld's that thing they're the greatest thing since jebus because they lvl faster then most, because they get the fastest pt's, they're nabbed before the whm is in most cases, and the idiot ones that try and rub that in are what's driving me from this game, one even drove me from the ls ive had since i was a lvl 8 war, without my damn sub yet.
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The people that are good players and loyal to FFXI will make this game good.
i was loyal until i met those people that just dont make the game fun anymore (see above).
oh, and
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Catchy title eh?
No.
Catchy title eh?
No.
dont diss my crummy little jokes -_- they're whats keeping the stupid little grin on my face right now...well...not so much right now, sorry for the kind of rant, but im in a bad mood, prettymuch about those ******** wrecking the game for me, but also for having everything i said questioned, and responded to in what made it look like im just a pre-40 noob.
The One and Only tekkub wrote:
Cause I pointed out that WoW is a big reason a number of people are leaving and someone debated that :P
Well, I tried to check out the open beta, but I refuse to pay for a beta game (have to subscribe to FilePlanet for the low price of $20/3 months). But I must say the opening cinematic was quite nice.
And I was severly dissapointed with Guild Wars :( Yay, they took out the level grind. Yay they took out the need to make tons of money. Yay they took out the tedious farming/crafting. Damn... they took out the fun of MMO's and turned it into an online only Diablo. They didn't just take out the level grind, they completely obliterated it. Level 20 is the cap... and you can hit that in a couple days. They didn't just make farming/crafting less tedious, they completely did away with them. Combat is counterintuitive for an MMO. It's so similar to Diablo, had they called it Diablo Online rather than Guild Wars, I wouldn't have been surprised.
What I'm really getting excited about, now that I've read more on it, is D&D Online. From what I've read from people who've gotten to play early versions of the game... combat is interactive. No more /attack <t> /em goes to get a sammich while he wails on <t>. This will bring back my love for melee. I got so bored with melee in FFXI, that I started RDM just so I'd be able to do SOMETHING while fighting. And moving around, or making quick dodges before the mob attacks, actually will be effective.
With the full set of D&D rules and game mechanics already refined over the last 30 years, it should be by far the most solid MMO released. I was very dissapointed that it wasn't going to be set in the Forgotten Realms setting, at first. But the more I've read about it, and what they're doing with the Eberron setting, and how this game will take place on an unexplored continent that has a LOT of history, and in doing so will tie it in with the current Pen & Paper version of D&D and the Eberron setting... it's got my interest sparked again.
The only thing I've seen so far that is a bit dissapointing, is there is no crafting ... yet. The developers have stated that when they can find a way to make crafting fun, it will be implemented. It sounds like WoW may have that already taken care of, so maybe the DDO developers can take a page from Blizzards books. Here's to hoping Eberron proves to be the rightful succesor to the Forgotten Realms' throne, as Wizards is so insistant on.
Why i am tired of this game:
The level grind. Doing the same thing over and over for less and less exp and more and more gil sunk into each level.
To get anything worth while in this game you have to either camp mobs for rare drops, or farm your butt off to afford to pay for extrememly over priced items.
Waiting hours for a pty. When you get to that pty, someone does something stupid and or disbands shortly after you get there.
Nothing is cheap in this game. NOTHING. And gil is like pulling teeth to get.
Ive beaten maat. The last thing i really see myself wanting to do is fighting the arch angels. Other then that, why bother? Fight some gods/hnm for what? More gil/items to jump back into the exp grind with or to fight more gods/hnm with.
Most of my friends are quitting ;;.
This game is more a chore then anything. I have always thought to myself- why am i paying to do something i dont want to do? After spending a total of 20+ hours camping (not in a row) wyvernpoacher i became fed up. Sure when i got the drop it was nice, but now 3 levels of use later its lost its flair.
After spending a night camping eyes for my optical hat, and getting no drop, i refuse to go again. I cant stomach paying SE to make me frustrated anymore.
The drama. It seems no matter where i try to go, whichever ls i am in has some form of pissy drama.
Seeing rampat corruption in this game, and nothing being done about it.
Why i am staying for now;
Im taking up bst, no ptys, no lfg, no money issues. No longer needing to dedicate x hours to a pty and x hours to wait for said pty.
I want to fight the arch angels
I want to get rank 10.
The few friends i have left i would like to spend time with.
Sorry for the rant.
The level grind. Doing the same thing over and over for less and less exp and more and more gil sunk into each level.
To get anything worth while in this game you have to either camp mobs for rare drops, or farm your butt off to afford to pay for extrememly over priced items.
Waiting hours for a pty. When you get to that pty, someone does something stupid and or disbands shortly after you get there.
Nothing is cheap in this game. NOTHING. And gil is like pulling teeth to get.
Ive beaten maat. The last thing i really see myself wanting to do is fighting the arch angels. Other then that, why bother? Fight some gods/hnm for what? More gil/items to jump back into the exp grind with or to fight more gods/hnm with.
Most of my friends are quitting ;;.
This game is more a chore then anything. I have always thought to myself- why am i paying to do something i dont want to do? After spending a total of 20+ hours camping (not in a row) wyvernpoacher i became fed up. Sure when i got the drop it was nice, but now 3 levels of use later its lost its flair.
After spending a night camping eyes for my optical hat, and getting no drop, i refuse to go again. I cant stomach paying SE to make me frustrated anymore.
The drama. It seems no matter where i try to go, whichever ls i am in has some form of pissy drama.
Seeing rampat corruption in this game, and nothing being done about it.
Why i am staying for now;
Im taking up bst, no ptys, no lfg, no money issues. No longer needing to dedicate x hours to a pty and x hours to wait for said pty.
I want to fight the arch angels
I want to get rank 10.
The few friends i have left i would like to spend time with.
Sorry for the rant.
I think Mag summed up my argument nicely. The people who are leaving are leaving because the game feels like a chore and is not fun. We can argue back and forth about it all you want, but I thin keveryone will agree that the people who leave FFXI are teh ones who don't feel like spending time "earning" their "fun". I understand the satisfaction of getting something great out of a lot of hard work, but FFXI just feels like you're working hard so that you can, well, work hard some more.
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