Not going to do my usual in character post today as this pissed me off greatly.
I did the BCNM 40 that everyone loves named "Sprouts" with my LS last night and here is what happened:
Party layout: Drk/war (Me), Whm/Blm, Rdm/whm, Brd,whm, Mnk/war, and Rng/war.
I was told to rush in, voke the black mandy, pull it to the side and fight it while the brd slept the other mandies and we would kill the black one first. So I tanked the black one and cast Stun it when it tried Flood and long story short the rdm d/c's, brd dies, whm dies, I die, mnk dies, and rng dies. Great for my first BCNM, I fell from level 58 to 57, I am 480 tnl and I can't even solo it, and I am down what little money I had, never going to do a BCNM EVER again.
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My first BCNM.Follow
Hey man dont get discouraged, that BCNM takes a pt that has done it before. My first time there was with an inexperienced pt and we lasted about a minute lol. Anyways just wanted to let you know its not just you and dont give up hope, IMO thats a great BCNM if u find ppl u trust that have done it before. BTW sorry about the death and good luck if you decide to do it again =).
Edited for spelling ><
Edited, Wed Feb 2 10:33:03 2005 by fantasygeno
Edited for spelling ><
Edited, Wed Feb 2 10:33:03 2005 by fantasygeno
/comfort Mateo
I lost at LEAST 20 BCNM before I finally got on a hot streak. There's not much you can do about someone D/Cing.
Side Note: Dont run off with that little black mandy until they are all slept (they will group and follow). Then hit him and move. With competent players that BCNM is relatively easy. The DRK and BRD are the main keys. If the BRD dies, you might as well run to the exit. LoL.
I lost at LEAST 20 BCNM before I finally got on a hot streak. There's not much you can do about someone D/Cing.
Side Note: Dont run off with that little black mandy until they are all slept (they will group and follow). Then hit him and move. With competent players that BCNM is relatively easy. The DRK and BRD are the main keys. If the BRD dies, you might as well run to the exit. LoL.
Those onions had thier way with me several times. Keep at it and eventually you will get it.
It took three disasters before I got my timing right, and I'm the bard. So yeah, it's all a learning experience the first couple of times.
Now it seems MUCH easier. Stick with it, you will get better.
-Siouxsie
44 BRD / 32 WHM
Now it seems MUCH easier. Stick with it, you will get better.
-Siouxsie
44 BRD / 32 WHM
I agree w/ Everyone. First BCNM's especially with other people who have never done it is usually a perfect reciepe for failure and or death. It really doesn't help to have your BRD's healer D/C in battle either. "Steamed Sprouts" owned me and the party I was in 3 times in a row one day before we got it (All of us de-leveled once >.<). Honestly there are much better and less risky BCNM's out there you might wanna give a shot.
Just some advice on the Sprouts BCNM, the BRD, RDM, and Tank should all run in at the same time and coral them all together, the BRD should not target the Black mandy and perform the Hordes Lullaby. Reason for this is to avoid building tons of hate on the black mandy so the tank can easily voke it, whack it once and run it to the where the other Melee and healer are camping. The RDM needs to practically be hugging the BRD to keep those sleeping mandy's together cause once one of them goes astray your screwed. You want to make sure you have a seasoned BRD that has preferrably done this before, and knows how to keep the spread of his/her lullaby in range of all the mandy's he/she is sleeping.
With the party setup you had there, I would have the RNG 2hr the Black mandy, followed by your MNK's 2hr, as a DRK do exactly what you were doing and keeping an eye on flood and stun when you can. The objective is to eliminate the Black mandy as fast as possible.
Long story short, this one happens to be one of the toughest BCNM40's out there, and don't get discouraged...eventually you'll get the hang of this one or another one, and you'll be out farming seals to no end ^_~ Have fun, and Good Luck.
Edited, Wed Feb 2 10:53:46 2005 by CeeFive
Just some advice on the Sprouts BCNM, the BRD, RDM, and Tank should all run in at the same time and coral them all together, the BRD should not target the Black mandy and perform the Hordes Lullaby. Reason for this is to avoid building tons of hate on the black mandy so the tank can easily voke it, whack it once and run it to the where the other Melee and healer are camping. The RDM needs to practically be hugging the BRD to keep those sleeping mandy's together cause once one of them goes astray your screwed. You want to make sure you have a seasoned BRD that has preferrably done this before, and knows how to keep the spread of his/her lullaby in range of all the mandy's he/she is sleeping.
With the party setup you had there, I would have the RNG 2hr the Black mandy, followed by your MNK's 2hr, as a DRK do exactly what you were doing and keeping an eye on flood and stun when you can. The objective is to eliminate the Black mandy as fast as possible.
Long story short, this one happens to be one of the toughest BCNM40's out there, and don't get discouraged...eventually you'll get the hang of this one or another one, and you'll be out farming seals to no end ^_~ Have fun, and Good Luck.
Edited, Wed Feb 2 10:53:46 2005 by CeeFive
my first (and second) BCNM was Creeping Doom.
Someone on the Creeping Doom quest guide page posted that a THF/NIN, RNG/NIN, and BLM/RDM could pwn that crawler
So I get the first two jobs correct, but our BLM is lvl 26, and only has WHM available for subbing... (but good for the paralyna)
We have all the food and equipment that'll work... We bring lots of sleeping bolts and assorted other additional-effect bolts.
First time, RNG and I spammed the thing with sleeping bolts, while we were engaged with it at the same time.... kinda useless
both times, the BLM did his best to nuke and aspir
neither attemps, did we succeed.
First time, we all died
Second time, we don't engage, and try and spam him with sleep bolts... still didn't work... we realized he'd wake up every time BLM cast a spell >_<
after BLM died, RNG did his best to sleep bolt him and run for the exit.... though, RNG died before he could get the sleep on and run......
I did my best to get him to sleep, and ran for the exit (fortunately made it before I died.)
Basically, we were sad and frusturated, and gave up for then. I encouraged the BLM to level up to 30 before we try again, (WHM is his main).
But we hope that someday, we'll be able to pwn that crawler, and make a profit from his spoils!
Someone on the Creeping Doom quest guide page posted that a THF/NIN, RNG/NIN, and BLM/RDM could pwn that crawler
So I get the first two jobs correct, but our BLM is lvl 26, and only has WHM available for subbing... (but good for the paralyna)
We have all the food and equipment that'll work... We bring lots of sleeping bolts and assorted other additional-effect bolts.
First time, RNG and I spammed the thing with sleeping bolts, while we were engaged with it at the same time.... kinda useless
both times, the BLM did his best to nuke and aspir
neither attemps, did we succeed.
First time, we all died
Second time, we don't engage, and try and spam him with sleep bolts... still didn't work... we realized he'd wake up every time BLM cast a spell >_<
after BLM died, RNG did his best to sleep bolt him and run for the exit.... though, RNG died before he could get the sleep on and run......
I did my best to get him to sleep, and ran for the exit (fortunately made it before I died.)
Basically, we were sad and frusturated, and gave up for then. I encouraged the BLM to level up to 30 before we try again, (WHM is his main).
But we hope that someday, we'll be able to pwn that crawler, and make a profit from his spoils!
BCNM40 is very fustrating due to the fact that it is probably the first time people are exposed to a much different fighting environment that they're not familiar with.
Though here are a few tips and tricks to take note of before you throw the orb at the fire.
First off, if you REALLY want to win, avoid doing it with people you don't know well. It leads to awful drama and horrible riff raff, win or lose.
Second, make sure the BRD is experienced (if you REALLY want to win). Though if you do meet a BRD and he doesn't know what he is getting into, someone in the group that has BRD experience should explain it to him.
Third, if the BRD dies (Run Away!), victory is but a dream at that point. There are exceptions though but most likely the BRD will die in the beginning, if he does.
Finally, enjoy it. If you're not happy doing it, it probably isn't for you. There are better ways to get money at level 40 and up, I just do BCNM40 with groups that I know and like and I have fun with it.
Though here are a few tips and tricks to take note of before you throw the orb at the fire.
First off, if you REALLY want to win, avoid doing it with people you don't know well. It leads to awful drama and horrible riff raff, win or lose.
Second, make sure the BRD is experienced (if you REALLY want to win). Though if you do meet a BRD and he doesn't know what he is getting into, someone in the group that has BRD experience should explain it to him.
Third, if the BRD dies (Run Away!), victory is but a dream at that point. There are exceptions though but most likely the BRD will die in the beginning, if he does.
Finally, enjoy it. If you're not happy doing it, it probably isn't for you. There are better ways to get money at level 40 and up, I just do BCNM40 with groups that I know and like and I have fun with it.
I am still 0/3 with the sprouts. My ls wants nothing to do with that one.
Instead we went and tried the royal jelly, which is only a three person BCNM. We beat that one many times already.
Don't get discouraged just because you lost that one.
Personally I think groups lose that one (BCNM sprouts) because the group does not have a good plan of attack. I can tell you that from own experience, just because the bard has the horn and you have the best melees doesn't mean that you have a 100% chance of winning.
I would suggest to you to go and try one of the three person BCNM, those are fun and rewarding as well (we got three erase and a bunch of items from all the times we beat it for a 450k profit).
Just keep trying!
Instead we went and tried the royal jelly, which is only a three person BCNM. We beat that one many times already.
Don't get discouraged just because you lost that one.
Personally I think groups lose that one (BCNM sprouts) because the group does not have a good plan of attack. I can tell you that from own experience, just because the bard has the horn and you have the best melees doesn't mean that you have a 100% chance of winning.
I would suggest to you to go and try one of the three person BCNM, those are fun and rewarding as well (we got three erase and a bunch of items from all the times we beat it for a 450k profit).
Just keep trying!
What I don't understand is why people waste a spot on pld for this BCNM when rng/nin tanks it just fine.
Scholar
39 posts
Hehe, I lvld BRD to 40, just so my LS could have a BRD for this particular BCNM. On our first attempt only 1 of us had ever done it in the same role he was performing, and only 1 other (me) had done it at all. We lost our first attempt and fourth attempt, but we've won every other time we've gone. 5 straight now. ^.^ True this BCNM is tough, and BTW I totally disagree with a melee running in to agro the bunch. If the BRD just Foe Lullaby's the Black one, all the others will run straight for him, Instant separation. :D If you really want some good advice on this one, check the BRD forums, countless threads on there about this particular BCNM. BRDs live for this fight, lol.
Quote:
What I don't understand is why people waste a spot on pld for this BCNM when rng/nin tanks it just fine.
PLDs can take the most DMG from mobs, so we make the perfect jobs to groups mandies together, and cover the BRD If needed when the white mandies wake up and as a last resort, Invincible
Edited, Sun Feb 6 13:06:25 2005 by Corrderio
First BCNM's should always be expected loss. I don't think anyone knows quite how difficult BCNM's really are till they get in and try. I hear people I know occasionally putting together a bcnm party and they grab nearly any job that wants to go along... Unfortunately, having the right jobs (and stable connections) is kinda key.
Who knows what the outcome would have been if the rdm never dc'd. Chances are you'd probably all die still anywho. I'm kinda confuzed on why they had the drk/war provoke instead of the mnk/war... I'm also confuzed why the brd didn't go in and sleep ALL the mandies THEN you run in and provoke. Personally, next time you try this, bring 2 rng's, 2 smn's, yourself and a brd. That should work pretty well if the brd knows how to work lullaby with the smn's 2hr BP (IE: SMN fires off 2hr BP and brd resleeps all the mandies while they're attacking the avatar). If both summoners use a 2hr BP right away, then the brd sleeps all the mandies and you run in after that... they should all be worked over slightly. By the time the mandies awake, the first smn should be close to having 2hr BP back.
Once the smn's both have 2hr BP's back, they can communicate with the brd so the brd knows the mandies will be woken up in a sec... then both first off a second 2hr BP... at this point, I would imagine the battle to be almost over. The two avatars and yourself can fight the black mandy NM and the rangers could probably kill the other mandies in a couple hits while the mandies beat on the Avatars.
Of course, I have not attempted this BCNM40, so I am unsure if this strategy would work, but even if the rng's couldn't finish off the other two mandies, they should be able to finish one off each if they both 2hr.
Oh yes, also bst's might be good too. They can use jugs kinda like a smn using avatars... and they can even attempt to charm on of the two other mandies... however, I understand some BCNM's the mobs cannot be charmed :\.
Who knows what the outcome would have been if the rdm never dc'd. Chances are you'd probably all die still anywho. I'm kinda confuzed on why they had the drk/war provoke instead of the mnk/war... I'm also confuzed why the brd didn't go in and sleep ALL the mandies THEN you run in and provoke. Personally, next time you try this, bring 2 rng's, 2 smn's, yourself and a brd. That should work pretty well if the brd knows how to work lullaby with the smn's 2hr BP (IE: SMN fires off 2hr BP and brd resleeps all the mandies while they're attacking the avatar). If both summoners use a 2hr BP right away, then the brd sleeps all the mandies and you run in after that... they should all be worked over slightly. By the time the mandies awake, the first smn should be close to having 2hr BP back.
Once the smn's both have 2hr BP's back, they can communicate with the brd so the brd knows the mandies will be woken up in a sec... then both first off a second 2hr BP... at this point, I would imagine the battle to be almost over. The two avatars and yourself can fight the black mandy NM and the rangers could probably kill the other mandies in a couple hits while the mandies beat on the Avatars.
Of course, I have not attempted this BCNM40, so I am unsure if this strategy would work, but even if the rng's couldn't finish off the other two mandies, they should be able to finish one off each if they both 2hr.
Oh yes, also bst's might be good too. They can use jugs kinda like a smn using avatars... and they can even attempt to charm on of the two other mandies... however, I understand some BCNM's the mobs cannot be charmed :\.
Scholar
48 posts
For BC20, this is the method I used. 5/6 on it when I stopped.
Enter cursed seal.
BLM buffs PT (Protectra, Barparalyzga)
All 3 PT members use food (meat kabobs for THFs, pie for BLM)
1st THF/NIN (let's name him A) goes in and fires 1 shot (Acid Bolt)
2nd THF/NIN (B) uses another Acid Bolt if first one missed, if not, shoots Sleep Bolts.
Alternate fire between A and B (meaning A fires, then B starts firing after A's firing animation has gone off)
BLM keeps outside Paralyzga range and cures when needed.
Rinse and repeat until 1 THF has TP for a weaponskill.
Sleep Bittoso, line up the 2 THFs for a SATA Shadowstitch.
After nailing the WS, the bugger is likely to start casting Cure III, so the trick buddy has to time his shot to hit just after the WS goes off.
If it manages to get a Paralyzga off, BLM Paralynas everyone (if you're paralyzed and attempt a SATA WS, it is likely that one of the effects will not kick in)
Rinse and repeat above procedures.
Near the end of the fight (around 5-10% HP left), have one THF use SATA shadowstitch, BLM times his biggest nuke to coincide with the WS.
Collect your treasure! ^^
This method may be a bit slow but it is more or less a guaranteed win if you prevent most of the Cure IIIs from going off. We only lost once using this method and it was because we exceeded the time limit due to Bittoso repeatedly using Cure III on himself.
Enter cursed seal.
BLM buffs PT (Protectra, Barparalyzga)
All 3 PT members use food (meat kabobs for THFs, pie for BLM)
1st THF/NIN (let's name him A) goes in and fires 1 shot (Acid Bolt)
2nd THF/NIN (B) uses another Acid Bolt if first one missed, if not, shoots Sleep Bolts.
Alternate fire between A and B (meaning A fires, then B starts firing after A's firing animation has gone off)
BLM keeps outside Paralyzga range and cures when needed.
Rinse and repeat until 1 THF has TP for a weaponskill.
Sleep Bittoso, line up the 2 THFs for a SATA Shadowstitch.
After nailing the WS, the bugger is likely to start casting Cure III, so the trick buddy has to time his shot to hit just after the WS goes off.
If it manages to get a Paralyzga off, BLM Paralynas everyone (if you're paralyzed and attempt a SATA WS, it is likely that one of the effects will not kick in)
Rinse and repeat above procedures.
Near the end of the fight (around 5-10% HP left), have one THF use SATA shadowstitch, BLM times his biggest nuke to coincide with the WS.
Collect your treasure! ^^
This method may be a bit slow but it is more or less a guaranteed win if you prevent most of the Cure IIIs from going off. We only lost once using this method and it was because we exceeded the time limit due to Bittoso repeatedly using Cure III on himself.
10 posts
Howdy all,
I leveled my brd to 41 just for this fight (I like a little exp cushion). If you have your tactics down, this really is a pretty easy (if time consuming) BCNM. I've done this one about 15 or so times and lost 3 of them. The key, as far as I can tell, is the first 30 seconds. This is where your brd and rdm have to really be on the ball.
Rdm rides on the brds back and the brd (as per Derutaru's post) uses Foe Lullaby on the black mandy. Seperation is immediate. Brd backs up on the ramp a bit (not too far and close to the side wall) and the white mandys will surround him. This is where the brds nerves are tested. Your brd will have to let himself get hit until the mandys find their places around him and your rdm will have to keep him alive.
The mandys will form a semi-circle around the brd. At this point the brd simple targets the center most mandy and drops Horde Lullaby.
From there, melee beat down the black mandy then pull the white ones one at a time (drk ever watchful for the nasty flood).
I ask the whm (and black if present) to keep w/in Ballad range and alternate Paeon and Ballad between Lullaby casts. After the third Horde Lullaby the rdm is free to convert at will.
Hope my little ramble is useful to somebody.
Give me (Aladon) a shout if you ever want to try this out.
Edited, Mon Feb 7 12:58:47 2005 by PrytanOfTotalFaith
I leveled my brd to 41 just for this fight (I like a little exp cushion). If you have your tactics down, this really is a pretty easy (if time consuming) BCNM. I've done this one about 15 or so times and lost 3 of them. The key, as far as I can tell, is the first 30 seconds. This is where your brd and rdm have to really be on the ball.
Rdm rides on the brds back and the brd (as per Derutaru's post) uses Foe Lullaby on the black mandy. Seperation is immediate. Brd backs up on the ramp a bit (not too far and close to the side wall) and the white mandys will surround him. This is where the brds nerves are tested. Your brd will have to let himself get hit until the mandys find their places around him and your rdm will have to keep him alive.
The mandys will form a semi-circle around the brd. At this point the brd simple targets the center most mandy and drops Horde Lullaby.
From there, melee beat down the black mandy then pull the white ones one at a time (drk ever watchful for the nasty flood).
I ask the whm (and black if present) to keep w/in Ballad range and alternate Paeon and Ballad between Lullaby casts. After the third Horde Lullaby the rdm is free to convert at will.
Hope my little ramble is useful to somebody.
Give me (Aladon) a shout if you ever want to try this out.
Edited, Mon Feb 7 12:58:47 2005 by PrytanOfTotalFaith
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