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Spinoff: Lawmaker, Lawenforcers, Lawabiders, LawbreakersFollow

#1 Mar 03 2005 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
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433 posts
Here, hopefully a forum that would aid in discussion, not namecalling:

Lawmaker--SE

Lawmaker routinely accept feedback (or should) about the code of conduct (Law) set for the benefit of all in the world, and make suitable adjustments to the Law so that the general populace is happy. They are not necessarily repsonsible for the day to day enforcement of the Law, but are in position to mete justice on a case by case basis, depending on the situation.

SE in this case is undoubtedly the lawmaker. people complained about fishing being borrowing? they changed the rules. people felt that MPK should be considered criminal deserving capital punishment? it now is. people complained about gilselling-monopolies? steps have now been implemented so that high-ticket items are harder to monopolize.

Lawenforcers--GMs

Lawenforcers are supposed to be the day to day policemen. they police the world and ensure that everyone adheres to the Law. it is their prerogative (and judgement) to mete out punishments where they feel the situation demands it. Lawenforcers report only to the Lawmakers, but are essentially accountable for their actions.

GMs are arguably the only policemen on vanadiel. these are RL employees of SE (by some merit or other) who has to grant audiences on demand, and also uphold the Law. GMs are supposed to ensure that everyone in vanadiel adhere to the Law, and any infringement can be seen as a criminal offense deserved of some corrective measure.

Specifically though, GMs are as human as anyone else, just like policemen aren't omnipotent and omniscient. while it is expected that they be just and overly enthuziastic about vanadiel, even the most responsible GM can have a bad day.

GMs are not in themselves above the law. they are also subject to strict protocols that are decided by the Lawmakers. in the event that there appears to be a dereliction of their duty though, GMs are (or should be) accountable for their decisions.

Lawabiders--PCs

Lawabiders abide by the rules set by Lawmakers, believing that the rules are there for their benefit. Lawabiders generally form the common populace, going about their everyday lives, and pursue their personal goals. in the event their actions break the Law, if caught, they would be labelled as Lawbreakers, and treated as such.

the majority (or so i hope) of the PCs in game are Lawabiders. in the event of injustice done to them, or to their neighbors/friends/peers, it is the PC's prerogative to report the incident to the GMs. it is NOT their office/station to handle the matter themselves.

Lawbreakers--PCs, GMs

Lawbreakers break the rules, either knowingly or accidentally. the former is usually dealt with in a more serious manner.

PCs and GMs can be potential Lawbreakers. each have their own method, and as long as they break the rules, and are caught, they are then subject to punishment proportional to the seriousness of their actions.

DISCUSSION: do all agree to this model?
#2 Mar 03 2005 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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1,332 posts
Quote:
do all agree to this model?


Almost. SE can break its own "laws" too, as it has also made "laws" that apply to itself, if you wanna look at the grand scheme of things. Though it probably won't happen, I'm sure it could.
#3 Mar 03 2005 at 7:17 PM Rating: Decent
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433 posts
Jeryhn wrote:
Almost. SE can break its own "laws" too, as it has also made "laws" that apply to itself, if you wanna look at the grand scheme of things. Though it probably won't happen, I'm sure it could.


and this is the reality of it, i agree. but what happens when that happens? and how much proof of their incompetence must be brought to light before we can safely say that any lawmaker has failed?

i'm talking general now, not just SE. i'm sure that everyone has been taught in some history lesson or another about failed governments, and other related issues. we've read about self-serving despots, and probably know at least one dictator or two.
#4 Mar 03 2005 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Almost. SE can break its own "laws" too, as it has also made "laws" that apply to itself, if you wanna look at the grand scheme of things. Though it probably won't happen, I'm sure it could.


And yet another aspect of RL that is portrayed down into the VR we know as Vana'Diel...

Just like SE breaking it's own "laws", IRL, you may find police/lawenforcement officers who believe they are above the law and can break it as they see fit... You can also find another STRONG example of this in the Military. However, the Military/Government is more of empty-promises than broken laws... still not too far off IMO.

Also, I would agree Enthuz... very nice, non-name bashing, thread you set up for some clarity.
#5 Mar 04 2005 at 12:59 AM Rating: Decent
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433 posts
ElvaanKrem wrote:
Just like SE breaking it's own "laws", IRL, you may find police/lawenforcement officers who believe they are above the law and can break it as they see fit... You can also find another STRONG example of this in the Military. However, the Military/Government is more of empty-promises than broken laws... still not too far off IMO.


i think you might have to support that statement about "empty-promises" for clarification. i'm not sure i understand what you mean.

that aside, herein is the pinch: what do we do about it? can we do anything about it? should we?

maybe bringing this too far out of context is not very realistic, so i give this following scenario, a little closer to heart:

Quote:

player A goes to gusgen mines to start his day of mining. on reaching, he sees player B, struggling with 50 skeletons, and on the verge of death. player A makes quick mental calculations, and realizes that he won't be able to assist without dying. hence, player A walks by player B. player b gets cheezed, and sends player A a /tell, saying "help me!"

not knowing player B, player A replies {i'm sorry}, and continues on his way. player B dies.

the very next day, player A goes back to gusgen mines, expecting to have a go at the mining spots again. he zones and sees player B lounging around the entrance, killing a few more skeletons. paying him no mind, player A continues on his way, only to realize that player B has left off his skellie hunting (killing the last one promptly), and started tailing player A around.

player A thinks it a coincidence, and shrugs it off, continues. but on the first, second, third and fourth mining spots found successively, player B thwarts player A, by getting to the spot first (by flee, or some other mechanics). player A feels something is wrong, and asks player B "why are you doing this? you don't have mining clothes on, the mining would be crap." to which comes the reply "i just like to mine here." frustrated, player A calls it a day, and leaves.

the next day, and for a few mining days after, the situation worsens. be it palbourough, zeruhn, or gusgen, player A walks in only to find that within 30 mins, player B would be there to tail player A around. and in some cases, what appears to be player B's friends were also partaking in this 'prank'.

player A decides to call a GM. but GM says "seems like friendly competition to me." player A grumbles, and swears off mining.

same situation happens with logging, and harvesting, and each time player A lodges a complaint with a GM. each time the same response, "seems like friendly competition to me."

by this point player A has confronted player B in /tell regarding his actions, but received no reply. when finally player A tries that one last time to mine, lo and behold, player B is there again to make hell for the day.

at the last straw, player A calls the GM, and hotly demands that some form of justice be mete out. GM checks log, sees nothing (no harsh words, no emote, no nothing), but notices that player A had already called on a GM at least 3 times in the past 3 days, and always regarding the same matter. after much deliberation with the GM, the GM still cannot do anything about player B.


Qn: in this case, what can/should/would you do?

Edited, Fri Mar 4 01:08:59 2005 by Enthuz

Edited, Fri Mar 4 01:09:34 2005 by Enthuz

Edited, Fri Mar 4 01:05:59 2005 by Enthuz
#6 Mar 04 2005 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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488 posts
you forgot ps2 users as well or would that make us thee out casts?
#7 Mar 04 2005 at 11:21 PM Rating: Decent
I think in this instance PC= player character

so ps2 = PC
and pc = PC

^^
#8 Mar 06 2005 at 11:16 PM Rating: Decent
21 posts
I would be discussing on the thread but im not intellegent enough to understand it. lol

Only replied to the thread to say hi to Enthuz (/wave)

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Maopnek - Galka - Cerberus

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