I agree w/ ovul that that ffxi app on the PDA isn't a hack, it is no worse then keeping track of that **** in your head. Fact is SE locked the game down tight.
I don't disagree that there are reasons for them doing that. I just don't see the windower as a problem for those of us that can't afford a PDA or another PC/Laptop to keep up w/ the people that can afford that. I barely make ends meet so to me the windower enables me to do what you do, just I get to do it for free since I don't have a PDA or 2nd PC.
Do I use the windower to bot? Nope, I use it to check forums, to streamline gameplay. If SE took a look at how Blizzard has run WoW w/ allowing UI addon's they would see its not all bad, and that a lot of it is good. It allows the players to program things like TParty and Bloodpace and things of that nature. It allows the game to be enhanced, unfortunately it does also allow the game to be hacked, but that can be checked easily enough.
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Warf I was not trying to pass judgement on anyone for using a windower. I was just trying to put it in perspective for the people that feel there is no other way. I have friends that have before or still use a windower. I also have friends who have been powerlevelled. I do not think they are bad people, and those things are very very minor, and do not affect my ability to the game in anyway at all. There are other "cheats" that really do directly impact other players. I only used those examples to illustrate the difference.
LOL sorry a lot of that came out like I was defending myself against your post. I was just pointing out my situation where I use certain tools to enhance my gameplay the same way you do.
I agree that the windower and even FFAssist is mild compared to MR.Argus and other actual hacks out there. The unfortunate side isthat people see these as the root of all evil. I personally think that SE should just impliment several aspects of FFAssist as well as the Windower.
Just my .02 cents.
I agree that the windower and even FFAssist is mild compared to MR.Argus and other actual hacks out there. The unfortunate side isthat people see these as the root of all evil. I personally think that SE should just impliment several aspects of FFAssist as well as the Windower.
Just my .02 cents.
Waffle>Cake>Pie>Asparagus
I just had a nice Belgium Waffle for Dinner!
I just had a nice Belgium Waffle for Dinner!
#31REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 18 2005 at 6:52 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ok lets get off the little "small cheats" and windower and stuff. Let's get on WW and Kon. You guys suck!
Thing is, Tparty, Bloodpace, Distance, HP%, etc, are not really "hacks" by definition. All the information is sent over the connection to your system and stored in your memory. All the plugins are doing is displaying information that SE has sent to you.
They don't do anything to change the info on the game, alter the game, or change any info on the server, sniff packets, etc.
Just a thought.
They don't do anything to change the info on the game, alter the game, or change any info on the server, sniff packets, etc.
Just a thought.
Quote:
ok lets get off the little "small cheats" and windower and stuff. Let's get on WW and Kon. You guys suck!
LOL! That is all I can do about that last comment.
As for the mention of SE already sending the info and the windower just showing it to you, {word}!
"I have never used bots, period."
SE has a precise definition of a hack -- it is best to follow that definition. And rules say hack is against the rules.
It is best to have precise and strict rules. No body makes you play the game, and the person who is hosting the game has the rights to makes the rules. If you agree to play with the host, a deal is made -- you play by the rules that the host made. It is 100% fair deal.
Trying to change the host's rules because it does not favor you -- even it may seem "harmless" is not proper. I can see why just using windower is fine for check info -- but the host say "that is against the rules," and that should be the end of the story.
There is in fact good reason to be strict... Say you go to Las Vegas and go to the casino. If everything can take shots and rant at the dealer that dealer or the owners cheat, how is the dealer and owners are going to able to deal cards or roll the dice? How are other players are going to be able to play.
Rules are there NOT to please everyone, and rules are not neccessary to be "fair." But that is not why rules are there. It is there to set a standard for decision making with precision and without biased. I would rather be precise and strict then be vague, because the more vague that is, there will be more people trying to take advantage the loop holes and grey areas of the vagueness.
It is best to have precise and strict rules. No body makes you play the game, and the person who is hosting the game has the rights to makes the rules. If you agree to play with the host, a deal is made -- you play by the rules that the host made. It is 100% fair deal.
Trying to change the host's rules because it does not favor you -- even it may seem "harmless" is not proper. I can see why just using windower is fine for check info -- but the host say "that is against the rules," and that should be the end of the story.
There is in fact good reason to be strict... Say you go to Las Vegas and go to the casino. If everything can take shots and rant at the dealer that dealer or the owners cheat, how is the dealer and owners are going to able to deal cards or roll the dice? How are other players are going to be able to play.
Rules are there NOT to please everyone, and rules are not neccessary to be "fair." But that is not why rules are there. It is there to set a standard for decision making with precision and without biased. I would rather be precise and strict then be vague, because the more vague that is, there will be more people trying to take advantage the loop holes and grey areas of the vagueness.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Ok, please excuse me for being and ******* here, but I'm tired of this crap. How long has it been since you knew that the top HNMLSes used bots to win pulls, how many threads have you seen about it and how many countless arguments have been witnessed. As if that were not enough, people who don't even camp or whom I have never even seen in Dragon's Aery, Behemoth's Dominion, Valley of Sorrows decide to randomly insert their opinion, where i'm sorry, it just doesn't belong. Seriously all your bickering and self righteous ******** isn't going to change the fact that I'm going to try to use Mr argus to claim FF. (well not any more, since SE broke it) I think another thing that pisses me off even more: Linkshells like YF, Crusaders, LaD, or anyother group who has never really even camped fafnir completely for the past year/6 months/month, goes on and on about monopolization. KoN starting killing Fafnir months before I join and months after with NO competition what so ever for about 3-4 months after that. And people complain about monopolizing a NM that no one even bother to show up for? Seriously...that's just being ignorant.
So in short...all you do by restating this crap is perpetuate needless arguements that aren't going to change anything, aren't going to stop the use of 3rd party programs, aren't going to win you Fafnir. So calm down, and don't interject your opinion where it isn't needed.
So in short...all you do by restating this crap is perpetuate needless arguements that aren't going to change anything, aren't going to stop the use of 3rd party programs, aren't going to win you Fafnir. So calm down, and don't interject your opinion where it isn't needed.
I think i just heard a Pop XD
Bani chilled down a little bit. I don't camp competed valued NM, so I do not have any personal interest in such issues. I do admit I killed Roc once, but that pretty much it^^:;;; And Roc is {too weak} - 3 people (Ninja, Bard, Red Mage or a White Mage are you ever need ^^:;;) (with patience) can kill it.
I do agree with Bani - no one compete does not equate monopoly. But if competition started, one just got to deal with that. At the same time, I dislike the argument, "Nothing is going to change." If every one things like that, then nothing will get better. If someone believes that status quo is not good, than that person should have right to do or say something about it in a reasonable and legit manner.
OP lefted out an important component of the problem -- it is not only HNM that cheats are used.... Heh. I have my personal problems with fishing bots too.
I do agree with Bani - no one compete does not equate monopoly. But if competition started, one just got to deal with that. At the same time, I dislike the argument, "Nothing is going to change." If every one things like that, then nothing will get better. If someone believes that status quo is not good, than that person should have right to do or say something about it in a reasonable and legit manner.
OP lefted out an important component of the problem -- it is not only HNM that cheats are used.... Heh. I have my personal problems with fishing bots too.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
The reason things wont change is because there really is no authority to do so. The annonymnoty (sp?) provided by the interned allows [players] to do what they want with no real life consequence. I'm sure If I was sitting right next to confucion when I snuck in and took his Tiamat he would have tried to punch me, but since he's likely a thousand miles away, I wont worry about it. All this talk about morals and such, people get carried away with their metaphysical thoughts and tend to forget some Hobbesian State of nature there ^.~
Heh May this is Confuican idea (the real one live 2500 years ago), I was brought up in a way that "face" is important. So face in a game is important to me even I know there is probably no real consquence (in some ways).
If someone act shameless, he/she will get treated in a shameless manner, and there is nothing to complain about that. In fact, shame and face are one of the reasons that hold morals together in Far Eastern society, more than the actual rules.
If someone act shameless, he/she will get treated in a shameless manner, and there is nothing to complain about that. In fact, shame and face are one of the reasons that hold morals together in Far Eastern society, more than the actual rules.
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Banigaru if any of that was directed at me then you completely missed the point of my post. When you talk about no one showing up for a HNM to contest it you are further proving my point that:
HNM botting excludes others from a part of the game that they are entitled to.
Did you ever think about that? Did you ever wonder why those other LS's that you mention don't like to show up? What is the point of showing up to get a claim if your morals prevent you from cheating and therfore make it 100% chance that you will not get it. YF does not cheat so YF was only able to claim last week because of a fix that cheaters will soon be able to circumvent. We all pay the same amount per month to play the game but unless we cheat or associate with cheaters we do not get to have a shot at the same portions. Do you honestly think only the shells that you see camping in DA, BD, and VoS are the only ones capable of the fights? Maybe in those first few months you speak of. But not for the past say 6 months or more.
Edit : also I do not think "well you have known about this for a long time" nor "well I'm anonymous so I do it because I can get away with it" are sufficient excuse either. I wasn't actually meaning to specifically attack your LS or anyone in it - that damage has been done enough by others for a long time. All I really meant was stop the ridiculous excuses. The only valid excuse I can think of would be "I cheat because pixellated items are more important to me than my integrity" Its not the pixellated items that those that disagree with you want. Its the chance to play on a fair and even ground.
Edited, Wed Oct 19 14:58:08 2005 by NOiSEA
HNM botting excludes others from a part of the game that they are entitled to.
Did you ever think about that? Did you ever wonder why those other LS's that you mention don't like to show up? What is the point of showing up to get a claim if your morals prevent you from cheating and therfore make it 100% chance that you will not get it. YF does not cheat so YF was only able to claim last week because of a fix that cheaters will soon be able to circumvent. We all pay the same amount per month to play the game but unless we cheat or associate with cheaters we do not get to have a shot at the same portions. Do you honestly think only the shells that you see camping in DA, BD, and VoS are the only ones capable of the fights? Maybe in those first few months you speak of. But not for the past say 6 months or more.
Edit : also I do not think "well you have known about this for a long time" nor "well I'm anonymous so I do it because I can get away with it" are sufficient excuse either. I wasn't actually meaning to specifically attack your LS or anyone in it - that damage has been done enough by others for a long time. All I really meant was stop the ridiculous excuses. The only valid excuse I can think of would be "I cheat because pixellated items are more important to me than my integrity" Its not the pixellated items that those that disagree with you want. Its the chance to play on a fair and even ground.
Edited, Wed Oct 19 14:58:08 2005 by NOiSEA
Not like i'm 100% knowledgeable about that time and KoN. However the timeframe I think bani is talking about is when KoN was pretty much the only NA LS capable of killing FF. Ergo no competition based on that fact, not that they were botting it so no one showed up.
The troll strikes!
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Quote:
The troll strikes!
huh?! lol
The rate down troll. Managed to get everyone but Dahlgren. LoL
Oh lol, I've been on KI too long >.> I forgot about the rating system here lol.
I got karma camped/trolled a few times when talking about Black Mages @.@
Warf come over the Alla to talk more. Alla needs more Galka love.
(Talking in KI style language)
Warf come over the Alla to talk more. Alla needs more Galka love.
(Talking in KI style language)
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
I was nearing a 5 though ; ; Just noticed it myself. and yes, Warf needs to come visit more often.
Edit: Either that, or I have a fan. (which doesn't surprise me as I am the President of the Universe.)
Edited, Wed Oct 19 16:05:37 2005 by Dahlgren
Edit: Either that, or I have a fan. (which doesn't surprise me as I am the President of the Universe.)
Edited, Wed Oct 19 16:05:37 2005 by Dahlgren
I'll be around more. I just ditched the stupid pop-ups here so it's no longer annoying XD.
bani
we have never mentioned anything about monopoly, get your shells straight.
i am concerned in general about botting, blah blah woof woof. initially on the KI thread, it was simply an observation that demetrios admitted to botting. we dont' cry, we camp against you now, since it's 'fair' at the moment, an opportunity that wasn't available without making a deal with WW.
so...the KI gods spun it into a morality issue, and demetrios backpedaling and finally it turned to sabotender and igneous, and we all know how fun that can get :-)
we have never mentioned anything about monopoly, get your shells straight.
i am concerned in general about botting, blah blah woof woof. initially on the KI thread, it was simply an observation that demetrios admitted to botting. we dont' cry, we camp against you now, since it's 'fair' at the moment, an opportunity that wasn't available without making a deal with WW.
so...the KI gods spun it into a morality issue, and demetrios backpedaling and finally it turned to sabotender and igneous, and we all know how fun that can get :-)
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