When I started playing the game I would trapse across the dunes in relative safety knowing that I had a stack of powders and oils so that I could get to a party camp in safety. These stacks were anywhere from 5-10k, not a bad deal when looking at the relative joy of not dying. Here in lies the problem.
I understand that as people craft they use economics to their advantage and that competetive nature of crafters adds to a healthy economy. For about a year, a person could buy a stack of oils for 15-19k, this was a high price but one I as willing to pay. Last evening I got a party invite in Sky, I wanted to go since It would have been my first XP party there (mainly go there for pop itmes and gods). I noticed I only had 2 oils in my inventory (time to buy more). I go to the Auction house to get some more check the going price and low and behold.......
WTF! 30k a stack.......
Now some people might say this is because of the rising prices of Slime Oil and Beehive chips.... Those people would be wrong. I farm both, Slime oil has dropped from 10k a stack to 7k, and beehive chips are steady at 12k. It is obvious that the crafters who are able to make Sneak Oils are taking advantage of something that non-mages need to have to get around in this world.
I have thought up some ways to counteract this blantant disreagard for fellow players but none seem possible, let alone proable.
1. SE adds NPCs that sell Oils and powders at fair prices and unlimited quanities so that people can't overprice them and or buy them out for sale on the AH.
2. Level alchemy myself and sell them lower prices, therefore taking the wind of of the lungs of the abusers. This seems the easiest but also has a flaw. I leveled cooking so that I could make pineapple juice for cheap considering cause they only cost about 150 gil to make 1 and people sell them for about 700-800 gil. I made a few and put them up in my bazaar for 300 gil, great deal. Problem is, someone bought them all at the reduces price and bazaared them for the normal 700gil. So i tried the AH, saw someone buy them all at my price and then re-sell them at the normal AH price again. Yes, I was fooled twice by this before I figured out my generosity was being abused.
It is getting to the point I get kinda pissy at camp changes and/or slight disorganization because one small mistake cost me...... about 5-6k now. If anyone has any clue as to a good way to fix this problem, please, let me know. It is driving me towards just leveling mages jobs so I can do it for free. and yes, even in sky, a half competant mage can recast sneak and invis without catching magic aggro. Sorry if this sounds abrupt but the situation needs to be dealt with or by the end of this year we will be paying 50k for a stack of something that is a nessecity and not just a luxury item.
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The best way to fix the Silent Oil problem -- have more people to make them or more people farm the sythesis materials for them. At the same time, you have to allow the crafters to make their money. If not profitable, who are going to make them.
It is all supply-and-demand, and the willingness to pay for the cost. 30k / 12 Silent Oil sound high to me, I think price will fall (I bought a stack recently for like 18-20k). It must have been supply was low recently.
About people buying up cheap sellers and resell at high price... That is really nothing new -.- Tarutaru Rice, or Saruta Cotton are only avaiable from Guild Salesroom vendor (limited supply), people camp the guild and resell them at AH at 2-3X higher price -.-
It is all supply-and-demand, and the willingness to pay for the cost. 30k / 12 Silent Oil sound high to me, I think price will fall (I bought a stack recently for like 18-20k). It must have been supply was low recently.
About people buying up cheap sellers and resell at high price... That is really nothing new -.- Tarutaru Rice, or Saruta Cotton are only avaiable from Guild Salesroom vendor (limited supply), people camp the guild and resell them at AH at 2-3X higher price -.-
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel
Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
- George Sand
A designer knows he has achieved perfection,
not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Dahlgren you dote. If you farm the materials, just ask a friend to synth them for you. I would have no issues making you some stacks. I get on LS members cases if they pay that much for such easily synthed items.
But yes, if people pay it, the prices will continue to rise. There's nothing you can do about that, unfortunately. If you are in need, however, just ask man. I have no problem helping out.
But yes, if people pay it, the prices will continue to rise. There's nothing you can do about that, unfortunately. If you are in need, however, just ask man. I have no problem helping out.
I know I could ask but most times when I need them it is for something spur of the moment, you two know how HNM works, lol. I am prepared most times but sometimes even I get caught off guard. The common person doesn't have the "networks" that we have gained here on Alla and it is beginning to work itself out of control.
Well your post has spurred a thought of mine to more or less guard our LS against this crazy price hike. I'm thinking about building a mule to store stacks upon stacks of Oils/Powders and maybe frequently used foods. The LS can then buy them for a reasonable rate whenever needed.
Here's my thing. Yes it's expensive to make oils, but let's look at real cost. I'll figure it at no HQ and no breaks.
1 stack of beehive chips will produce 4 lumps of beeswax. (Fire Crystal + 3x Chips + Distilled Water).
It takes 2 beeswax per oil and using slime oil you make 4 silent oils.
Now given that, you'll need 1.5 stacks of beehive chips to make one stack of silent oils. At 12k/stack we'd be at 18k.
You need 6 fire crystals at 4k/stack or 2k in crystals. Water is negligible at 14g each in Port Jeuno Duty Free shop.
Now we need 3 slime oils at 7k/stack so 1750g in slime oil. Water crystals are also negligible at 1-2k/stack, using 3.
So let's run down our costs to synth one stack of oils:
Beehive Chips = 18k
Slime Oil = 1.75k
Water and Crystals = ~2.5k
So now we're at 22.25k to synth one stack of silent oils. When you figure in supply/demand and synthing profits, I'm not really surprised to see them go at this rate.
Here's the thing, however. 60-80% of the people that profit synth these are higher level alchemist and hitting regular HQs. In most cases, you can't make a dime off of anything crafting unless you're HQing. This was the case in oils/powders, but no longer.
To hit a 50% HQ rate on oils you would need to be in the upper 70s in Alchemy. The mid 50s will give you around a 35% chance (pretty sure that's the 32+ tier % but not positive). To get to the 32 tier in Alchemy is ridiculously easy.
Personally, knowing that there is just no way in hell you'll get everyone on the server to stop buying oils at that price, I'd take some time out and level your Alchemy. Hell you can get to ~28 alchemy and synth them yourself for 22.25k/stack with buying all ingredients off AH. If you're farming chips/slime yourself, you'll make them for next to nothing.
Did I mention how easy it is to get to the 50% HQ rate of wax? LoL.
So in closing (LoL), yes it's annoying to see the constant state of flux on our AH prices, but I don't see it changing. Too many people are willing to toss away money and too few are willing to put in the effort to make their own. I think it took me 200k (max) to get to 50 alchemy. That's with me rushing through it. Take a couple stacks of water, and a stack or two of fire crystals out on your next chip farming run and start making wax. You'll build your alchemy skill, and your supply for oil materials.
Here's my thing. Yes it's expensive to make oils, but let's look at real cost. I'll figure it at no HQ and no breaks.
1 stack of beehive chips will produce 4 lumps of beeswax. (Fire Crystal + 3x Chips + Distilled Water).
It takes 2 beeswax per oil and using slime oil you make 4 silent oils.
Now given that, you'll need 1.5 stacks of beehive chips to make one stack of silent oils. At 12k/stack we'd be at 18k.
You need 6 fire crystals at 4k/stack or 2k in crystals. Water is negligible at 14g each in Port Jeuno Duty Free shop.
Now we need 3 slime oils at 7k/stack so 1750g in slime oil. Water crystals are also negligible at 1-2k/stack, using 3.
So let's run down our costs to synth one stack of oils:
Beehive Chips = 18k
Slime Oil = 1.75k
Water and Crystals = ~2.5k
So now we're at 22.25k to synth one stack of silent oils. When you figure in supply/demand and synthing profits, I'm not really surprised to see them go at this rate.
Here's the thing, however. 60-80% of the people that profit synth these are higher level alchemist and hitting regular HQs. In most cases, you can't make a dime off of anything crafting unless you're HQing. This was the case in oils/powders, but no longer.
To hit a 50% HQ rate on oils you would need to be in the upper 70s in Alchemy. The mid 50s will give you around a 35% chance (pretty sure that's the 32+ tier % but not positive). To get to the 32 tier in Alchemy is ridiculously easy.
Personally, knowing that there is just no way in hell you'll get everyone on the server to stop buying oils at that price, I'd take some time out and level your Alchemy. Hell you can get to ~28 alchemy and synth them yourself for 22.25k/stack with buying all ingredients off AH. If you're farming chips/slime yourself, you'll make them for next to nothing.
Did I mention how easy it is to get to the 50% HQ rate of wax? LoL.
So in closing (LoL), yes it's annoying to see the constant state of flux on our AH prices, but I don't see it changing. Too many people are willing to toss away money and too few are willing to put in the effort to make their own. I think it took me 200k (max) to get to 50 alchemy. That's with me rushing through it. Take a couple stacks of water, and a stack or two of fire crystals out on your next chip farming run and start making wax. You'll build your alchemy skill, and your supply for oil materials.
Scholar
20 posts
So you hate us because we craft and sell at a higher price, Well first talk to the farmers who keep jacking up slime oil and beehive chips, 2 you have access to log into my char anytime to make oils and powerders, 3 I hate you thats why I sell them at that cost ^^
anyway you know I farm my own materials and sell to LS members at cost so let me know when you want some i have 3-5 stacks either on me or in mog at all times.
Just log on and sent them to yourself, I don't mind making for friends just bring me the materials. I HQ about 25-30% of the time.
anyway you know I farm my own materials and sell to LS members at cost so let me know when you want some i have 3-5 stacks either on me or in mog at all times.
Just log on and sent them to yourself, I don't mind making for friends just bring me the materials. I HQ about 25-30% of the time.
Meh... In a few months the market will be completely saturated with low level crafting materials and the prices should collapse.
Beehive Chips
Silk Thread
Wild Onions
All Crystals
Anything dropped from L1-10 XP mobs is doomed, and anything of slight worth in the 10-30 range will quickly be over-farmed.
We saw this before during the "OMG PS2 NOOBZ!!!" crisis of 2004. Silk farmers were very upset. Fire crystal stacks were affordable and earth crystal stacks fell to 100 gil on bad days. People accused the new players of "killing the economy". This time I think the Xbox crowd will be a bit more welcome. (Stacks of silk for under 10k? Affordable silent oil again? These concepts no longer seem EVIL.)
Life will be very good for craftsman and consumers. A wider player base being added, and those 75 gil adventurer coupons wont tide them over for long. And this time SE has made sure to kill off all easy gil exploits (Fishing for rusty items >.<) so inflation shouldnt go wild. Farming will provide 100% of the newbie income and supply will hopefully surpass demand.
Every economy needs a solid base of poor people. We ran out, but more are on their way. Just be patient ^^
Beehive Chips
Silk Thread
Wild Onions
All Crystals
Anything dropped from L1-10 XP mobs is doomed, and anything of slight worth in the 10-30 range will quickly be over-farmed.
We saw this before during the "OMG PS2 NOOBZ!!!" crisis of 2004. Silk farmers were very upset. Fire crystal stacks were affordable and earth crystal stacks fell to 100 gil on bad days. People accused the new players of "killing the economy". This time I think the Xbox crowd will be a bit more welcome. (Stacks of silk for under 10k? Affordable silent oil again? These concepts no longer seem EVIL.)
Life will be very good for craftsman and consumers. A wider player base being added, and those 75 gil adventurer coupons wont tide them over for long. And this time SE has made sure to kill off all easy gil exploits (Fishing for rusty items >.<) so inflation shouldnt go wild. Farming will provide 100% of the newbie income and supply will hopefully surpass demand.
Every economy needs a solid base of poor people. We ran out, but more are on their way. Just be patient ^^
I craft Silent Oil, and..I usually make it for a profit and save the non stacks for myself. I will put them up for whatever they're going for cause I don't believe in undercutting for fast sale. However I have tried to figure out why they have gone up and I have not..yet.
Slime Oil = 30,000
Beehive Chip = 15,000
Beeswax = 32,000
Except for Beehive chip, the other two ingrediants remain the same price they've been since I've started Alchemy. So I don't know why the increase
Keep in mind, if one should go the beehive chip route, it takes three stacks of Beehive chips to make 1 stack of Beeswax, if you cannot HQ. Farming beehive chips is not easy..you have competition and a lot of bees simply wont drop this no matter how many you kill(Rolanberry for example..). Slime Oil has the biggest competition ever, and melees have the easiest time killing them. This alone is why I couldnt rely on silent oil for profit fulltime. There is too much "labor" involved. That COULD BE why it's 30,000, people are making buyers pay for thier labor. But then you have people who can HQ beeswax and silent oil ALL DAY and not have to make money off of anything else.
Slime Oil = 30,000
Beehive Chip = 15,000
Beeswax = 32,000
Except for Beehive chip, the other two ingrediants remain the same price they've been since I've started Alchemy. So I don't know why the increase
Keep in mind, if one should go the beehive chip route, it takes three stacks of Beehive chips to make 1 stack of Beeswax, if you cannot HQ. Farming beehive chips is not easy..you have competition and a lot of bees simply wont drop this no matter how many you kill(Rolanberry for example..). Slime Oil has the biggest competition ever, and melees have the easiest time killing them. This alone is why I couldnt rely on silent oil for profit fulltime. There is too much "labor" involved. That COULD BE why it's 30,000, people are making buyers pay for thier labor. But then you have people who can HQ beeswax and silent oil ALL DAY and not have to make money off of anything else.
Double Post {Impossible to guage!}
Edited, Wed Nov 2 12:49:02 2005 by Zaleshea
Edited, Wed Nov 2 12:49:02 2005 by Zaleshea
let the market correct itself. People will see what you have seen and they will buy some slime oil and beehive chips and make some Slent oils for profit. This will cause higher demand in both slime oil and beehive chips and raise those prices. The increase in Sneak Oils will lower the price.
When the profit margin on Sneak oils goes down the profit will be gone and then chips and slime oil will get back to their normal price.
If you want to help the problem. Level up your alchemy so you can make sneak oil, you farm the ingrediants anyway.
Edited, Wed Nov 2 12:29:07 2005 by President
When the profit margin on Sneak oils goes down the profit will be gone and then chips and slime oil will get back to their normal price.
If you want to help the problem. Level up your alchemy so you can make sneak oil, you farm the ingrediants anyway.
Edited, Wed Nov 2 12:29:07 2005 by President
Quote:
you have competition and a lot of bees simply wont drop this no matter how many you kill(Rolanberry for example..).
O.o I get a chip off of almost every bee I kill in Rolanberry. LoL.
Maybe my TH is just broken..
I miss how Beehive chips use to be 10K a stack, I thought I was rich when I made my first stack of them >.>
FYI Oils are already back down to 20k
Quote:
Ever heard of spelling or grammar? Obviously not...
Ever heard of integrity? Obviously not.
14 displayed, 1 filtered.....
Smitz, is that you hidding under there?
Smitz, is that you hidding under there?
Yeah it was him. LoL.
Smitz: Official troll of Allakhazam.
Smitz: Official troll of Allakhazam.
You know what is funny, the real Smitz didn't know me, in the least. But this "Smitz" knows I like to level slow and enjoy the game. I really wish I knew whos sock puppet this is cause it really isn't Smitz, lol.
Quote:
An act to Protect ones LS seems to be enough to Condemn him for life, despite all great actions in the past. Just remember, Family is greater than a Digital Piece of ***.
Hmmm...
I farm silk and beehive chips while seeking as SAM, not to bad.
I hit up Silk and chips too. Then when I camp the Intruder earring, I nail Jellies in Kor. Tunnel. I hate that earring. :/
I farm everything, slime/silk/chips/honey/elementals/vines/masks. -.- I'm probably rich as hell and don't know it - my mules are backlogged with crap.
LeetFade wrote:
Quote:
An act to Protect ones LS seems to be enough to Condemn him for life, despite all great actions in the past. Just remember, Family is greater than a Digital Piece of ***.
Hmmm...
I got my *** digitally ^^
Scholar
28 posts
The thing is, people saying that it will work itself out. One thing is wrong with that though: you have too much trust in the average player. The average player is going to go "Hmm...i need more money, I guess Ill craft or farm something" and just continue on with prices the way they are. I admit it..im literaly have to be the poorest lvl 60 on our server. There are sometimes MONTHS, literal months, where I have less than 100g, not even enough to buy a chocobo, just because of prices. Yeah yeah, before we get into the "you should do this or that" debate, im going to make one last remark. The economy is in the hands of the players, and SE isnt going to fix this. Basic economics :supply rises, demand falls, demand rises, supply falls. But you;re going to encounter those people who dont care either way, so...its going to be really hard to accomplish a price drop in anything...but hey, ole Kaganos here is willing to give it one hell of a shot if you are.
Dahlgren, Smitz = Cetranne.
Did she fool me? Yup. Did she slip and reveal herself? Yup.
Sorry to hijack the thread, now back to our programming in progress.
Did she fool me? Yup. Did she slip and reveal herself? Yup.
Sorry to hijack the thread, now back to our programming in progress.
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