Almalieque wrote:
Do you or do you not believe that blacks vote Democratic for reasons outside of welfare? If no, then there is no point in trying to convince you "why", if you don't believe that it happens in the first place.
Sigh. Again, here's what I actually said:
gbaji wrote:
I would argue that the perception that Democrats support social programs that benefit black people is a huge reason why black people vote so overwhelmingly Democrat. If you think otherwise, then by all means, provide said alternative explanation.
I said that the perception that Democrats support social programs (not just welfare) is a
huge reason (but not the only reason) why black people vote so overwhelmingly Democrat. So yes, of course black people also have other reasons. But the existence of other reasons does not preclude the fact that "support for social programs that benefit black people" is a huge reason for this.
You keep trying to frame this in an "all or nothing" way. As though if liberal social programs are not the *only* reason for blacks voting Democrat, then I can't point to them as a reason (much less a "huge reason") for blacks voting Democrat. But that's absurd. Do you agree that social programs are a big deal here? I think they are. I think they are the primary issue at hand. But, as I've pointed out repeatedly, they really shouldn't be. Blacks don't actually benefit from government social programs. I pointed this out with the whole charter school thing. I pointed it out again with the VRA. I pointed it out again with immigration (which I'm still not sure why you even brought up). And while I suppose not technically "social programs", many "social policies" of the Left are also harmful to blacks. You mentioned gun control, but gun control is most harmful to those living in the highest crime areas (which disproportionately means it harms blacks). You mentioned drug and prison reform, but that doesn't actually help those in poor neighborhoods with high crime rates. It makes things worse. What "reform" would you propose Shorter sentences? So now the criminals are out on the streets (in disproportionately black neighborhoods) faster? Drug reform? What form would that take, and how would that help change the currently massively disproportionate poverty that blacks suffer?
My argument through this entire thing has been that the root of most, if not all, problems that disproportionately affect blacks in the US is the disproportionate poverty rate. That's the "big problem". You want to "reform" things that are just symptoms of that problem. Drug laws affect blacks disproportionately because of the disproportionate poverty. Prison sentences affect blacks disproportionately for the same reason. Every single thing you talk about ultimately derives from that poverty difference.
That's the problem that needs solving. But you don't seem to want to even address it. You just want to argue about all of these other things. To me, that's about using the fact that blacks are disproportionately poor to create race based political arguments that will then resonate with black voters. You're being used. Again. The solution to all of those problems is to address the causes of disproportionate black poverty. But that's the one thing you steadfastly refuse to talk about.
Why is that?
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You asked me to provide an alternative reason why blacks vote Democratic outside of welfare, I gave at least 10. You cherry picked and distorted 2 and ignored the rest.
No. I looked at your list, pointed out that they were merely symptoms of the problem, and argued that we should be solving the real problem (poverty) instead of doing the equivalent of rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship. The fact that you keep bringing up the "laundry list" and insisting that I must drop my argument about poverty and focus on those other distractions instead, speaks volumes about your unwillingness to look at the problem of poverty among black populations.
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Furthermore, unless you think that the Democratic platform is good for any demographic (in a positive way), then you will never accept any explanation.[/b][/u] You're merely trying to transition the conversation and then accuse me for being tangential, just like you did with the "Uncle Tom" topic.
Huh? Why? I don't think that the Democratic platform is good for any demographic (except maybe the uber wealthy, and connected Dem politicians and their friends of course). I said this several times already. I'm just pointing out that it's particularly bad for poor black people and wondering why black people vote 90% for the Dems anyway. But all you keep giving me as answers are either circular assumptions about the GOP motivations or problems that are really just symptoms of the very social policies you support when you vote Democrat. Which seems strange. If you didn't support the Dems and their social policies (specifically welfare, but there's more) were eliminated, there would not be such disproportionate poverty among blacks, and you wouldn't view things like "gun control", and "prison reform", and "drug reform", "minimum wage", and "affirmative action" as things that blacks should hold specific positions on because of their skin color. Do you get that it's the correlation between skin color and poverty that creates all of those things?
Fix the poverty issue and those other issues all cease to be "black issues". Get it? There's the answer to your "laundry list". Are we done with that yet? Or do I have to keep explaining this to you?