Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
It was flying over a confederate memorial, not over the capitol itself (next to it maybe, not sure)
Hence the term "capital complex" and not "state capitol".
Yes. You intentionally broadened the language to include the actual truth, while retaining the implication that most people will adopt (that it's flying over the capital). Actually, you're more likely repeating language you heard someone else use that did the same thing.
Why not say "flying over a civil war memorial", instead? That would be far more accurate, but it doesn't do so well at generating outrage, does it?
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Is it a racist symbol though?
Yes. It's the standard for a group of men who were fighting to preserve slavery.
It's a standard for soldiers who fought and died for their country. You don't honestly think that the soldiers fighting in the war cared about preserving slavery do you? I get that this is a difficult concept for modern minds to grasp, but back in the day people raised arms in support of their country/state/whatever out of a feeling that it was their duty to do so as citizens. Sadly, far too many people do it only because they get free college tuition today.
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It was more or less forgotten until the civil rights movement when it was used as an opposition banner by southern whites who didn't want to see that happen.
It was used as a symbol of fighting against being told what to do. Everyone I've met from the south has talked about that time period and mainly been annoyed that the perception of the "Yankees" was that southerners could not figure out a solution to segregation on their own and needed the book learned northern city boy to tell them what to do and when to do it. It never specifically was about racism nor segregation. But I can absolutely see how some might view it that way. Association, right?
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What else do you think it stands for? What, specifically, about that banner means anything else that doesn't directly tie back into the fight to preserve slavery? Rebellious attitude? Yeah, by people who rebelled against their nation rather than give up slavery. State's rights? Yes, explicitly the right to own humans as property.
It's interesting how often you express this "all or nothing" mentality. It's possible to embrace one part of something without embracing all of it. One can oppose bad things going on around them without condemning everything else going on around them as well. One can stand up for the concept of states rights, even if the specific action at hand isn't something they agree with. You have to realize that the "worst case" is always the case that will be brought against something. No one says "that mild mannered hairdresser has a confederate battle flag over her station, so we must ban it!". It's "that racist who killed a bunch of people wore a confederate battle flag sometimes, so we must ban it!".
That's a problem for all the hairdressers, isn't it?
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Nascar and coca-Cola? I'm pretty sure Lee didn't have much to do with those. That people have seen it as some generic symbol of the South has everything to do with the shameful acceptance of a widespread casual symbol of racism and nothing to do with any actual connection between that flag and the southern states aside from the context of the battle to preserve slavery.
No. I'd say that they're able to see beyond the very narrow minded viewpoint that you are espousing and view it as a symbol of individualism and opposition to outside pressure to conform. And yes, sometimes this may take the form of outsiders pressuring for valid social changes, but it can come in many other forms as well. The difference, as I just pointed out, is that no one on the outside makes those associations. You're looking too hard at the one cases that supports your position and ignoring all the cases that don't.
And I view that as a problem because it can be used to attack just about anything.
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Yes. It's a racist symbol. ... it just has no place in state government.
Because you think it's a racist symbol. And that makes it so, right? Lol!