someproteinguy wrote:
See the article addressed that:
Quote:
ICE claims it could deport 400,000 undocumented immigrants a year. Apply Trump's triple formula not just to the staffing but to the results and it's still 2027 before the last of them is gone, and again this presumes nobody puts up a fight, nobody tries to come back, and nobody new tries to get in.
It's just a simple logical deduction. The problem is you can't just apply the laws the same way they're on the books today because you don't have the manpower to do it. If you take Trump's stated solution to the problem (3x the man power), then it takes over a decade to get everyone out assuming you don't have the inevitable governmental bloat with diminishing returns after hiring additional people.
Which again, assumes all you're doing is running around trying to find and deport people. Which is only half of the equation (less than a third actually). If you provide an alternative method for those currently coming (and staying) here illegally to do exactly what they're doing today, but with a legal status and documentation, a very very large percentage of them will follow that path. Which kinda makes the whole "deport those here illegally" thing quite easy and obtainable.
Quote:
gbaji wrote:
If you can actually create a new type of visa that covers the same work being done by current illegals, giving them a way to do what they're doing now without fear, and place threat of deportation on the other side of the equation, then yes, many of those 11 million will voluntarily sign up for the new visa, and voluntarily be "deported", only to walk out the exit door of the same US immigration building, on the US side of the border, only now with legal documentation.
You're still asking people that have good reason to fear the U.S. government to trust that same government. How do you get through those decades of instilled fear?
I think you are grossly misunderstanding what those here illegally actually fear, and why they fear it. If the US government provided them a legal way to stay in the US and work, even if it gives them no benefit towards citizenship, they'd be very happy.
Quote:
(I mean really, angry white guys talking about deporting people is probably the worst way to do this...)
Yeah. That's not the narrative that actually resonates with the undocumented population though. I get that it's a great stereotype to use. But it's just not accurate.
Quote:
Even then you still have to process 11 million people (many of whom, again, aren't going to be very trusting that you have their best interests in mind) to give them visas. Even in the best case scenario you're going to have a sizable percentage of the population (I mean even by some miracle if 2/3rds of the people voluntarily walk into a ICE station for procession you're talking about a manhunt for nearly 4 million people) you're going to have to pay to track down and process.
And if we don't do this, does the size of the problem magically shrink? Does it disappear? No, it does not. I think the problem isn't the number here illegally today, but the rate at which the illegally enter the country. The number above points this out. We already deport nearly half a million people every year. That's the "normal" level of load. It's already a massive undertaking, and shows no sign of getting smaller. If we change the approach, making it so that those who are actually just coming here to work can do so, and keeping those with less honorable intentions out, we may have some extra load in the short term (decade or so), but will significantly decrease that load over time.
These "deportations" would also be much cheaper. Again, assuming we can actually get some kind of guest worker program working.
Quote:
Whatever happened to small government anyway?
Is this where I repeat, for the zillionth time, that "small government" is less about the total dollars spent, and much more about making sure things are handled at the correct level of government. Border enforcement and immigration is a federal level problem. So unlike things like food stamps, housing assistance, funding for arts and education, and a host of other things that liberals think the federal government should have a hand in, immigration is actually one of the small handful of things the federal government should actually be doing.
Small government is about shrinking the federal government down to just the things it actually needs to do. It's like I have to keep explaining this every month or so. Don't worry though. I'm sure the next time we get into a discussion about why the GOP supports military spending when we're "small government", or why we're ok with getting involved the middle east despite being "small government", I'll have to trot out the same explanation again. And again. And again.
Edited, Apr 26th 2016 7:15pm by gbaji