Sure Smash. I will freely admit that Kerry made this statement:
Quote:
"I'm not going to betray a private conversation with anybody," Kerry said Sunday. "I have heard from people, foreign leaders elsewhere in the world who don't appreciate the Bush administration and would love to see a change in the leadership of the United States.
And I simplified the statement to this:
Quote:
If Kerry is using some statements by foreign leaders as support for his candidacy for president of the US, then those statements need to either be confirmed for them to be taken at face value
And the Jophiel further simplfied the statement to this:
Quote:
Regardless of context, regardless of motive, regardless of anything, either foreign leaders told Kerry they supported him or they didn't.
And then I responded back with a further simplification to this:
Quote:
He claimed that foreign leaders told him directly that they supported him. There are no points where he could have recieved false information.
Sure. I'll say that as many times as you want. Here. I'll say it again:
Quote:
"I'm not going to betray a private conversation with anybody," Kerry said Sunday. "I have heard from people, foreign leaders elsewhere in the world who don't appreciate the Bush administration and would love to see a change in the leadership of the United States.
The above quote is Kerry attempting to claim that foreign leaders support his bid for presidency of the United States.
There. want it again?
The above quote is Kerry attempting to claim that foreign leaders support his bid for presidency of the United States
What the hell are you having a problem with Smash? Are you saying that every time I reference Kerry's statement(s) I must provide an exact quote? Are you crazy?
Look. Here's a better one. Explain to me exactly how that statement by Kerry (the one I *did* quote) can be interpreted as anything other then Kerry trying to imply he's got the support of foreign leaders. It's not like there's a whole lot of question that this election is between him and Bush you know. Who exactly do you think benefits if people think that Kerry is being told by foreign leaders that they want Bush out of the White House?
C'mon Smash. Even you can't believe the garbage you are spewing.
I'd also like to point out that none of this changes the fact (which was the whole point of this in the first place) that Kerry did in fact claim to have conversations with foreign leaders that did not actually happen.
Look. I'm perfectly clear with admiting that I simplified Kerry's statement down to a more manageable size. I'm also not the only one who did so. Joph did it. Totem did it. I'm pretty sure half the posters on this thread at some point posted some varient of the "Kerry claimed X from Y" statement. See... If there aren't quotes around something. It's
not a quote. And even if there are, it's not always a quote (as in the example in my last sentence).
So... Will you accept that Kerry made claims about conversations with foreign leaders that he did not actually have? That's all I care about. Everything else is just me bringin up "what if" cases. The thrust of my entire argument has been that if Kerry claimed to have conversations with foreign leaders, and he *didn't*, then that seriously calls his credibility into question.
So. Simple question Smash. Did Kerry actually have conversations with foreign leaders, or didn't he? If he didn't, then would you not agree that he was *lying* when he made the statement quoted above?
That's all I care about. Everthing else in here has been argument to make that point. Nothing more.
Edited, Tue Mar 30 00:20:53 2004 by gbaji