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#127REDACTED, Posted: Mar 05 2009 at 11:17 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophiel,
#128 Mar 05 2009 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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bluffratt wrote:
Jophiel,

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Who is that? Are you referring to the joke petition?


As opposed to "global climatologists" who have a vested financial interest in the perpetuation of the myth of man made global warming?

Show me some accredited scientists who aren't on the govn payroll or getting kickbacks from far left organizations and I might be a little more open to their "opinions" on this matter.



Then they'd be on the right, and therefore have a vested interest in not agreeing with global warming. Namely Big Oil profits and industrial regulations.
#129REDACTED, Posted: Mar 05 2009 at 11:20 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Kaelesh,
#130 Mar 05 2009 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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bluffratt wrote:
It starts with not driving one day a week and ends with all combustible engines being outlawed.

Amazing you can't see that. The entire global warming movement is predicated on an unprovable assumption. These people use this assumption to control behaviour and thought.
Yeah, that'd be just awful. Imagine, no smelly gas-hogs running around. No smog. No noise, because electric cars are whisper quiet. No dependence on oil.

God, you're a blind douche.
#131REDACTED, Posted: Mar 05 2009 at 11:21 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ash,
#132 Mar 05 2009 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
bluffratt wrote:
It starts with not driving one day a week and ends with all combustible engines being outlawed.

Amazing you can't see that. The entire global warming movement is predicated on an unprovable assumption. These people use this assumption to control behaviour and thought.


It's amazing you can't get a grip on reality. It's a volunteery service a citizen could do.

You know, like this country actually had to sacrifice in WWII?
#133 Mar 05 2009 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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bluffratt wrote:
Show me some accredited scientists who aren't on the govn payroll or getting kickbacks from far left organizations and I might be a little more open to their "opinions" on this matter.

If by federal payroll you mean $40,000 in salary to conduct research at public universities and by kickbacks from far left wing organizations you are referring to tenure then I got nothing.
#134 Mar 05 2009 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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This thread has generated massive amounts of wasted energy and come to zero conclusions, whilst doing nothing to clean up the planet....

Wich, in a nutshell, is exactly my problem with the whole man-made global warming industry debate that has been going on since the 70's.
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#135REDACTED, Posted: Mar 05 2009 at 11:25 AM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) Ash,
#136 Mar 05 2009 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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bluffratt wrote:

p.s. I also don't subscribe to the myth that there's only so much fossil fuel.

Oh for ****'s sake. Do you even know what oil is?
#137 Mar 05 2009 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
There is enormous debate over the degree to which it's actually causing global temperatures to change though.
Not really, no. Perhaps for solid numbers but no so much for the range. Much less denying its significance.
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Ask a climatologist if he thinks that humans are causing a global temperature increase, and 90% of them will say yes.
More than that.
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Ask them how much, and 100% of them will say "we don't know for sure"
Again, "We don't know for sure" is different than "We have no clue".

If a group of economists were going to warn me about a stock collapse tomorrow they may say (among other things)...
(1) Your stock will drop in value tomorrow but we're not sure exactly how much
(2) Your stock will drop in value between 50-85% tomorrow but we're not sure exactly how much
(3) Your stock will drop in value exactly 67% tomorrow. Its lowest point will come at 3:07pm.

Personally, if someone told me (2), I'd think it was wise to act on that information rather than wait for someone to tell me (3).
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#138REDACTED, Posted: Mar 05 2009 at 11:29 AM, Rating: Unrated, (Expand Post) Kaelesh,
#139 Mar 05 2009 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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paulsol wrote:
This thread has generated massive amounts of wasted energy and come to zero conclusions, whilst doing nothing to clean up the planet....
Screenshot
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#140REDACTED, Posted: Mar 05 2009 at 11:32 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#141 Mar 05 2009 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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bluffratt wrote:
I would look and see who's cutting the checks to the climatologists.
Well, for the last eight years that answer would have been "the Bush administration" for a whole lot of them.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#142 Mar 05 2009 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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The opposition is not to the science, but to the specific political "solutions" being proposed Joph. Ask a climatologist if he thinks that humans are causing a global temperature increase, and 90% of them will say yes. Ask them how much, and 100% of them will say "we don't know for sure" (although they'll use more politically expedient language most of the time). Ask them to state exactly what effect any given political proposal will have and the answers get progressively more vague.


Right, so the question is; will any action taken by us right now achieve some significant effect in delaying or mitigating the damage caused by global warming? We can predict and speculate but there is no clear model or paradigm from which to judge.

However, when you consider the processes and actions which created an excessive amount of CO2, it is clear that those processes and actions are detrimental to our environment and very inefficient regardless of their link to global warming, so why wouldn't we enact policy change?

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The costs to reduce emissions by even a small amount globally are staggering. And there is zero assurance that what we do will have any significant impact, much less that the impact we have will even be noticed.


Forget global warming, what about the inefficient waste of limited non-renewable resources? What about the impact to local environments, smog and acid rain and other concerns? Why would we not want to replace our energy infrastructure with clean and renewable energy generating technology? Why would we want to be dependent upon the Middle East and China for coal and oil? Plenty of reasons to enact these policies besides global warming.
#143 Mar 05 2009 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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You have been completely brainwashed. There's no other way to put it. Incidentally people like yourself are the reason the economy is in the state it is. H*ll on the other thread one of you actually thinks it's the job of his neighbor to pay for his mortgage if he can't. And now you're telling us that it's the job of the govn to try and affect global climate change.


This is probably the funniest thing I will read today.
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p.s. I also don't subscribe to the myth that there's only so much fossil fuel.


My mistake.
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#144 Mar 05 2009 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
paulsol wrote:
This thread has generated massive amounts of wasted energy and come to zero conclusions


Otherwise referred to as "Zero Point" energy. Smiley: schooled
#145REDACTED, Posted: Mar 05 2009 at 11:59 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) souls,
#146 Mar 05 2009 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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Varus,

bluffratt wrote:
p.s. I also don't subscribe to the myth that there's only so much fossil fuel.


I don't know how it's possible, but I think you've moved to a new level of stupidity. Before, my mental image for you was a pair of clown shoes. Now, I don't even know what to think.

Then again, maybe you know something about giant space dinosaurs that we all don't.
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#147 Mar 05 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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bluffratt wrote:
souls,

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Forget global warming, what about the inefficient waste of limited non-renewable resources?


Well for one it's not limited. How can you say something is limited when you have no idea how much there is to begin with?
Because we don't live on a world that stretches into infinity?
#148 Mar 05 2009 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Not really, no. Perhaps for solid numbers but no so much for the range. Much less denying its significance.


Er? For the range as well. The range is from "an impact so small we can't really be sure it's there" to "worldwide floods in 50 years".


Quote:
If a group of economists were going to warn me about a stock collapse tomorrow they may say (among other things)...
(1) Your stock will drop in value tomorrow but we're not sure exactly how much
(2) Your stock will drop in value between 50-85% tomorrow but we're not sure exactly how much
(3) Your stock will drop in value exactly 67% tomorrow. Its lowest point will come at 3:07pm.

Personally, if someone told me (2), I'd think it was wise to act on that information rather than wait for someone to tell me (3).


Are you suggesting that the global warming predictions are similar in "range" to option (2)? Cause that would make my earlier statement about no temperature increase over the last decade relevant, wouldn't it?


And if it's not, then how do we measure this? You can't both claim that GW predicts specific effects over a specific (and relatively close) period of time, and then argue that not seeing *any* of those effects over the last decade doesn't call it into question at all.



You've said yourself many times that science must be falsifiable in order to be useful. Is Global Warming falsifiable? If so, by what?
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#149REDACTED, Posted: Mar 05 2009 at 12:02 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) floyd,
#150 Mar 05 2009 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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Well for one it's not limited. How can you say something is limited when you have no idea how much there is to begin with? That would be like me saying there is only a limited amount of drinkable water so we have to ration what we drink so that we don't run out in a 100yrs. Can you see how stupid that is?


Holy fuck.
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#151 Mar 05 2009 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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bluffratt wrote:
floyd,

How about investing in nuclear technology? How about creating nuclear powered autos?

I suppose you're going to continue to believe the earth has only so many resources the rest of your life. What a good automaton the liberal loonies have created in you.

Here's an analogy for you. Dump 20 fish into a pond. They'll be fine, they'll survive, they'll eat the pond scum and bugs and whatever that pond has to offer. Dump 200 fish into that same pond. If the pond is a reasonable size, they'll be fine. They'll have to compete a bit for resources, but they'll get by.

Dump 2000 fish into that same pond. Now it's overcrowded, and there aren't enough resources to go around. The fish will either have to begin dying off, or come up with a new way to live.

This is the scenario we face. At some point, we're going to consume more than our planet can presently produce. Food, fuel, everything. Because the planet is finite, and our growth hasn't been finite at all.
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