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Gbaji, other engineers, car people, your opinions please...Follow

#27 Mar 09 2009 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
At the moment, sure, it's not really useful at all. In fact, you'd be better building a drainpipe on your roof and directing the falling water to spin a little wheel - but it's pretty cool!
#28 Mar 09 2009 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Even if you were able to get 100% efficiency It would not be able to produce more favorable energy production then straight up solar, so I sincerely doubt it will ever become a viable technology.

Sorry to rain on your parade.
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#29 Mar 09 2009 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
Potential viability isn't the issue here.
#30REDACTED, Posted: Mar 09 2009 at 2:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The manual transmission is for acceleration and to reduce power loss at higher speeds. Electric cars do use a gearbox, but they are just a single gear for smooth acceleration. Usually these cars are geared for city traveling, which would make them inefficient on the highway, and the reason for a manual gearbox.
#31 Mar 09 2009 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Oh. And just because I don't build bridges doesn't mean I'm *not* an engineer.
He drives trains.


Shhhh....

/hides hat
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#32 Mar 09 2009 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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kroutonz wrote:
The manual transmission is for acceleration and to reduce power loss at higher speeds. Electric cars do use a gearbox, but they are just a single gear for smooth acceleration. Usually these cars are geared for city traveling, which would make them inefficient on the highway, and the reason for a manual gearbox.


While I'll admit to not being an expert on electric car designs, I do know a lot of people who are avid electric car-o-philes. My understanding is that the need for a transmission in conjunction with an electric motor is primarily when you are converting a gas powered car/chassis to use an electric powered motor.

If you are designing one from scratch, you use batteries to directly power individual motors attached to each wheel (which is what the description above states), and use use an all-electric computer controlled system to manage the torque/speed from each motor independently. Correctly designed electric motors can vary speed and torque using purely electronic means requiring no "shift" along the way (smooth power curves). There should be zero need for any sort of transmission at all.

Certainly, there should be no need for a manual gearbox. That can only decrease the efficiency and power of the drive system. Hence, my assumption that it was added just to make idiots who equate "manual shift" with a high quality sports car think that this is a good feature.
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#33 Mar 09 2009 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
I skipped over the part about there being two motors for each rear wheel, so yes a conventional manual gearbox would not work for that setup. The paddleshifters they incorporated makes it a manual transmission without a clutch and the shifting as you said is probably electronic. Without some sort of gearbox the motor may take 10k RPMS to stay at a constant speed of 60mph. With a gearbox incorporated it may only take 2k RPMs in 5th gear. I'm sure the electricity it takes to spin the motor 8k more RPMS is way more than the 10-15% power loss found in usual drivetrains.
#34 Mar 09 2009 at 4:18 PM Rating: Good
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Top gear had a review of an electric car with a different take on the power source.

Youtube link here

Essentially it does away with the battery and has a powerplant on board that uses hydrogen to produce electricity. You refill with Hydrogen. What this means is the performance of a normal car, with easy (and swift) refuelling.

What I do not fully understand is the true impact mass production of Hydrogen would have on our environment v's fossil fuels being burnt. Also would the car industry be interested in such a vehicle? It would mean less maintenance and spare parts being bought. You would wipe out an entire sector.

Edited, Mar 9th 2009 8:21pm by GwynapNud
#35 Mar 09 2009 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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kroutonz wrote:
I skipped over the part about there being two motors for each rear wheel, so yes a conventional manual gearbox would not work for that setup. The paddleshifters they incorporated makes it a manual transmission without a clutch and the shifting as you said is probably electronic.


And there's no reason to have a gear shift, much less a manual one. It's for show.

Quote:
Without some sort of gearbox the motor may take 10k RPMS to stay at a constant speed of 60mph. With a gearbox incorporated it may only take 2k RPMs in 5th gear. I'm sure the electricity it takes to spin the motor 8k more RPMS is way more than the 10-15% power loss found in usual drivetrains.


Properly designed electric motors can do that all by themselves without needing an external gear system. Purely electronically controlled changes to the electric field driving the motor itself can effectively "shift gears" by changing from low speed/high torque to high speed/low torque modes automatically on a smooth curve. And it can do so far more effectively than any set of gears can.

What you're talking about is drag on the rotational system as speed gets high. Traditionally, a motor puts out a narrow range of rotational energy, and a gearing system allows for managing torque/speed changes through an acceleration/speed range. The motor requires a set amount of energy to "spin" at a given speed (RPM inside the engine). For an internal combustion engine this is a big deal, since that RPM means that crankshaft and pistons have to all move at that speed.


In an electric motor, the only part that is moving is the motor coil. It is spun as a result of alternating electro-magnetic fields around said coil. The amount of energy loss from having that component spinning "fast" at high speeds is going to be less than the amount lost by having the wheel spin that fast (it's almost certainly heavier), much less the added energy loss by including a set of gears to manage this. You don't spend 10x the energy spinning that coil at 10x the speed. Not strictly speaking you don't. You can adjust the frequency and intensity of the field in order to make exactly the kind of torque/RPM changes that a traditional gearbox does. Thus, it takes only the amount of power to keep the motor spinning at a "high" speed as is required to make up for the loss due to drag forces on the system. Trust me. Wind drag, and the wheel mass (ie: the stuff that the motor is driving against) are much more significant than the motor coil itself. Keeping that spinning is the smallest factor here.



Now, maybe there's some actual reason to do this, but everything I've ever heard from people who are very very heavy into electric cars is that one of the huge payoffs to using an all electric car is that you can run the wheels directly off electric motors and don't need a transmission or gears anymore (aside from perhaps a slip-differential just to prevent rotational energy from violently feeding back into the motor of course). And certainly, the idea of having a manually controlled gearbox is just absurd.
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#36 Mar 09 2009 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Something actually cool: electrical power from the kinetic energy of raindrops.

So you want to replace tires with waterwheels?
#37 Mar 10 2009 at 7:57 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Kavekk wrote:
Something actually cool: electrical power from the kinetic energy of raindrops.

So you want to replace tires with waterwheels?
Only after the polar ice caps have fully melted.
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#38 Mar 10 2009 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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It's in my title, and I'm paid on the same scale.


If the word "support" is also in your title, and I'd lay giant odds it is, you're not, I repeat, not, an engineer.
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#39 Mar 10 2009 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Properly designed electric motors can do that all by themselves without needing an external gear system. Purely electronically controlled changes to the electric field driving the motor itself can effectively "shift gears" by changing from low speed/high torque to high speed/low torque modes automatically on a smooth curve. And it can do so far more effectively than any set of gears can.


Yeah, no.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#40 Mar 10 2009 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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Smasharoo wrote:

It's in my title, and I'm paid on the same scale.


If the word "support" is also in your title, and I'd lay giant odds it is, you're not, I repeat, not, an engineer.


The word "support" does not appear in my title. The word "Senior" does (and with luck the word "Staff" will replace that soon). The only other word describes the field: IT. There is no "technician", "support", or "specialist" in there either, just in case you're wondering...
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