I'm the Religious Left!Follow

Xsarus said :



Online ********** says



or another one says



Sorry if you don't like my definition, but I didn't make it up just to **** you off.

Dimethyltryptamine would be a good place to start.

If insults and marginalization are all that is being achieved here, then that is a problem with the execution, but not the intention. My personal goal was simply to attempt to correct a lie, that science and religion are fully compatible, but the train just got further and further from the tracks. Sure there is harm created from trying to stigmatize a group rather than work with it, but I think far too often harmful beliefs go unchallenged. Sometimes you cannot treat a perspective or political group as legitimate; sometimes there is great harm in doing so. To me it seems like you and Anna are taking the stance similar to the apologists/moderates for segregation, supporting the goals of the civil rights movement but continually asking for their patience and to wait, wait for equality.

Edited, Apr 7th 2009 11:52pm by Allegory

Ok, sure. So take the constructive criticism and change tactics.Actually, I don't support your goals at all, at least not so far as "exposing religion" or whatever. I don't care if people are religious or not. The issues I do care about aren't mutually exclusive to having faith in some divine power. If someone is against, oh say gay marriage, I don't really care if it's because they have some gripe against "government benefits" or if it's because they're waving around a copy of Leviticus. I do, however, recognize that telling the second person that they're a big stupid-head for believing in lolsuperstitions isn't likely to change their mind or make them any more amendable to the notion.

Honestly, it's a wasted effort and I think it should be obvious that it's a wasted effort. So doing so seems less about changng the world for the better and more about ************ your own ego by acting smug in your athiesm. Not "you" specifically.

Are you telling me that posting here isn't going to change anyones mind??

Noooooooooo!!! Say it ain't so!

I honestly thought I was making some headway there for a while

To my perception, taking anything in any religion literally and as trying to explain scientific facts is missing the point. Religion is an attempt to relate concepts that are simply far beyond our limited comprehension.


We are aware of 4 dimensions, and our perception of the 4th ( Time) is rather feeble. We don't "see" Time, we're merely aware of it's effects. Asked to visualize a 4 dimensional object, most will simply include the shadow(s) of a 3 dimensional object. Limited and wrong, but it's the best we can do.


Some scientist believe that our Universe is actually comprised of no less than 16 dimension. This is all based on mathematical models as no Human could possibly relate to such. That's just for our physical World. Expand that to the concept of a "GOD" and it seems to me that understanding such is patently impossible.


Anyone could use a literal interpretation and pick out individual stories as most assuredly incorrect, but that's willfully ignoring that these religions exist as a means to try and relate the unknowable. A horse isn't a big dog, but to a child that had never seen one, it's a good starting point.

I just drew a stick figure of Jesus having sex with a stick figure of Satan. What now, Jophiel? I just totally owned your whole religion. Owned, man. Pwned, even. You might even say I powned it. Everything is ruined forever.

I trust you'll be throwing out your bible momentarily.

I was in a punk band called Stick Figure Jesus. Our shirt featured a drawing I made. It was a stick figure drawing of the last supper. Complete with a black guy ( stick with a 'fro) and Judas was sneaking his bread to a stick figure dog under the table. In the background was a stick figure version of the Mona Lisa with a fifty-cent price tag hanging from it.


We all had mohawks and would flap them back and forth in sync with the "music". We didn't have drummer so we used a drum machine and on top of that sat one of those battery operated chimps with cymbals thingies. He also had a mohawk.


Yeah, that was back when I thought I was funny and had it all figured out.

Unfortunately the best approach is not entirely obvious. Too rough and Freudian defenses kick in making agreeing on even the lunch order for peace talks impossible. Too gentle and no one seriously reconsiders their position.

I meant more in the way that I felt you were being overly patient with the religious community.

Some times treating symptoms is insufficient. For the gay issue specifically, there are a lot more quotes of Leviticus going around than grumblings over government benefits.

I'm not saying that everyone with a gun will kill, or that no one without a gun kills, but maybe, possibly, guns might make it easier to kill? It seems like few people I speak to on this board are willing to entertain the possibility that a person's core belief system might have an affect on their decision making process.

Is it always, in every single case, more effective to address only the issue at hand rather than the belief system behind it? In all the conversation I've read between you and gbaji I have yet to see see either one of you convince the other of his main point. You both have very separate and different perspectives and beliefs that affect the conclusions you both reach. If the world were split between Jophiels and gbajis how much headway could you make addressing only the issues themselves and never trying to change the other's fundamental beliefs?

There are a lot of individuals on this board doing exactly that, but not every negative comment is a good self groping.

It seems like whenever I make a negative comment concerning the topic of religion I'm either preaching to the crowd or a bigot on an agenda. Few seem interesting in really talking about the subject.

Anna and I have spoken about religion many times before, and it seems I am put into the same position every time. I say what is, or at least what I perceive to be, equivalent to "blacks are at a greater risk for heart disease," and she hears a negative comment about black people. I become the bigot from then on. Every harmful action supported by a religious group is excusable because those individuals don't represent the whole group, in fact they cannot represent any element or possible driver within the group. I would agree that religion can drive people to accomplish both the good and bad, but it seems many don't want to accept that religion can drive people to accomplish anything bad.

Edited, Apr 8th 2009 1:04am by Allegory

Its true. I've been rumbled!

When not here, I potter around town shopping for the latest fashion items, drinking decaf lattes, discussing the goings on in the world of celebs, worrying about how I'm going to get to the salon for my regular haircut on time, wondering if the neighbours are gossiping about the length of my lawn, and trying to decide wich politician I should vote for based on the cut of his suit or squareness of his jaw (i would never never vote for a woman).

The last time I had a serious conversation with someone not via the computer, was when me and my mate Malcolm spent a very heated couple of hours discussing the merits of wich model railway guage we felt was superior (00 of course! Need you ask lol?).

The arsylum is the only place where I truly feel free (FREE I say!) to let loose my inner pedant, to rail against the injustices and hypocricy of a world gone insane. Where 'up' is 'down', and 'black' is 'white'. A place where I can mingle with great thinkers (and great fools), and spar (with limited success) with people whose minds exhibit mental agility that if in physical form, would have put Olga KorbuTT to shame.

What a load of shi'te!

In Reality, I live in my moms basement, eat a lot of fast food, and I'm a virgin. I've never been out of my country 'cos I don't know how to get a passport, and all my opinions are formed from reading games forums. And I get regular pressure sores from sitting in one position for too long. I do sometimes throw my empty RedBull bottles over the fence into next doors garden tho, and I'm pretty darn sure they are Christians.

So don't tell me I'm not doing my bit in the 'real' world!

I'm not sure what this was supposed to mean but I think it's great that you put the time into it.

You're welcome. I'm getting very well paid for another 30 minutes yet!

And as a point of order, and I could be wrong, but I dont think I called anyone a 'superstitious fool' or an 'idiot'.

Except perhaps Varus. 'Cos he's a nob.

Edited, Apr 8th 2009 6:27am by paulsol

This is bigger than you.

Really, each time I get into this, it's building upon previous threads.

Edited, Apr 8th 2009 1:33am by Jophiel