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#1 May 10 2009 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
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Racism (of all creeds and colours) is not over but its on the wane. The tide has turned and slowly equal rights are becomming the status quo. Obama in America and a Dalit running for office in India are two prime examples. The impossible is finally possible although I doubt the UK will allow a Scotmans at the helm again Smiley: tongue
Religion is dying as an influence with a vicious last kick of energy as it realises it cannot survive as a true political influencer in a modern information rich world.
Sexism is still present but only passive and its slowly being stamped out in the western world. I'm sure in time it will be negated in the east once they outgrow religious dogma.
LGBT is the new cool and in time will be considered a social norm. Some last kicks from dying religious groups are trying to stop progress but that will soon be muted by legislation.

So my question is, whats left? Who will be the next group to claim to have their rights quashed and usurped? If in the next 20 to 30 years we solve all the problems with rights in the western world what will we have to grumble about. What will be the future threads in the Asylum where they grow to 13 pages based on sheer bullheadedness?

Just a minor thing, Obama stole "yes we can" from 'Bob the Builder', look its true!

Edited, May 10th 2009 1:34pm by GwynapNud
#2 May 10 2009 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
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Pretending that your OP is really true, I think a future controversial "human rights" issue will be criminals and prisons. It will be argued more and more that the majority of criminals were "made" that way because of early abused childhoods in combination with faulty genes, and that these particular criminals should be in psychiatric treatment and rehab type situations rather than the "pure" jails we have now.

Also legalisation and medicalisation of most recreational drugs. I think they'd need to be heavily regulated, and available on prescription, and you ought to have a "drugs" license the way you have a car liscence, that you gain after sitting an educational test, and that could be taken away from you for infractions, blah de blah.
#3 May 10 2009 at 5:49 AM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Pretending that your OP is really true, I think a future controversial "human rights" issue will be criminals and prisons. It will be argued more and more that the majority of criminals were "made" that way because of early abused childhoods in combination with faulty genes, and that these particular criminals should be in psychiatric treatment and rehab type situations rather than the "pure" jails we have now.


I'm not so sure about this one.

Aripyanfar wrote:
Also legalisation and medicalisation of most recreational drugs. I think they'd need to be heavily regulated, and available on prescription, and you ought to have a "drugs" license the way you have a car liscence, that you gain after sitting an educational test, and that could be taken away from you for infractions, blah de blah.


This. I like the idea and would eagerly support it. Trying to make use and supply illegal has worked as well as prohibition did in America ..
#4 May 10 2009 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
Certainly not New Labour.

Quote:
I'm not so sure about this one.


It was during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. To quote Gabe, "sh*t be cyclical, dog".

Edited, May 10th 2009 2:14pm by Kavekk
#5 May 10 2009 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
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Kavekk wrote:
Certainly not New Labour.

Quote:
I'm not so sure about this one.


It was during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. To quote Gabe, "sh*t by cyclical, dog".

Yeah, we're in the bit that's largely forgotten that bit, so we're due an upswing in attention to it. Of course the timing isn't predictable. Ask Hex.
#6 May 10 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ari wrote:
Pretending that your OP is really true, I think a future controversial "human rights" issue will be criminals and prisons.


Close. There will continue to be passionate disagreement about opportunity and poverty. Crime and punishment is part of that discussion, as in a large part is the legal use of those recreational drugs deemed acceptable by the power class.

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#7 May 10 2009 at 6:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Pretending that your OP is really true, I think a future controversial "human rights" issue will be criminals and prisons. It will be argued more and more that the majority of criminals were "made" that way because of early abused childhoods in combination with faulty genes, and that these particular criminals should be in psychiatric treatment and rehab type situations rather than the "pure" jails we have now.

Also legalisation and medicalisation of most recreational drugs. I think they'd need to be heavily regulated, and available on prescription, and you ought to have a "drugs" license the way you have a car liscence, that you gain after sitting an educational test, and that could be taken away from you for infractions, blah de blah.


well and to further expand upon this theory of Ari's, it could deal with their lack of resources upon release. Few places want to hire convicts which makes it very difficult for them to secure housing, food, medical care etc.

I believe, although Nexa would be more knowledgeable, that certain offenses can prevent them from receiving financial aid which combined with the inability to secure employment can prevent them from improving their situation, closing the doors to improving their achieved status level.

So, I agree with Ari's statement that Criminals will be the next controversial group.

#8 May 10 2009 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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And you don't believe that all of that is a subset of socioeconomic disparity?

Here's a hint: the criminals who can be helped by financial education and aid are not white collar criminals.

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#9 May 10 2009 at 7:42 AM Rating: Good
Maybe we should work on socioeconomic disparity, then. Smiley: nod


As for legalising recreational drugs, Europe is going one step forward, two steps back. The position of the Left Youth hereabouts is that all drugs should be legalised, and has been for years, but then the Netherlands go and make mushrooms illegal because some idiots combined them with alcohol and didn't know how to handle what followed.
#10 May 10 2009 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hAdgqpq5hAAk_MEHbzm3CVXdnBZgD980TPGO0

Aripyanfar was right! O.O

(The article is about a lawsuit from prison inmates and guards about the prison conditions in an Alabama prison).
#11 May 10 2009 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
I'm gonna say it's the wall that's been being built while these other ones have been falling, and that is socioeconomic class. While advancements have been made in those things mentioned in the OP, the disparity between the haves and have-nots has been steadily growing.

That said, I don't know that this disparity is or is going to be a crippling social issue like what's already been mentioned, but I'm inclined to think it will be, though in a far more subtle, and perhaps more sinister, way. Samira already mentioned the power class, and I for one think that subtle disenfranchisement and exploitation of the poor, which more and more of us are being pushed towards, by them will become the next wall that we will rail at.

In a more near term battle, with the advent of the Internet, I foresee another examining of decency, obscenity, and the role of censorship in society. The internet is changing the dynamics of what people think is acceptable in everything from sexuality to language. Personally, I am fine with the erosion of decency codes and censorship, to the point of encouraging it. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that (perhaps here I am, I don't really know anyone's opinion well enough to judge), and it seems inevitable that a large clash regarding it is headed down the pipes.

That thar is my opinion.
#12 May 10 2009 at 9:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Robotics. Robot's roles in human society. That's next.
#13 May 10 2009 at 9:48 AM Rating: Good
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I agree that the socioeconomic mobility problem is the next hurdle.

Part of the problem with socioeconomic barriers is creating the desire to move through them. I'm serious when I say I'm surprised how many fail to even try, despite help being available. How do you inject ambition and desire to succeed?
#14 May 10 2009 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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GwynapNud the Eccentric wrote:
How do you inject ambition and desire to succeed?


By taking away their ability to survive in the current condition!
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#15 May 10 2009 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
And you don't believe that all of that is a subset of socioeconomic disparity?

Here's a hint: the criminals who can be helped by financial education and aid are not white collar criminals.



I think what Im addressing is the "after prison" criminal. Once they get out, there seems to be an almost approved form of discrimination which doesn't allow them access to the same kinds of resources that we are.

Talking about their lives prior prison or during is a huge can of worms; so many loose threads, really. One fact I find troubling is that the prison systems are being utilized for mental health due to the cuts within the insurance systems & mental hospitals. Some of those people really aren't harden criminals but because of failures in our health system & legal system, they will never have the lifetime opportunities that many of us take for granted.
#16 May 10 2009 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR wrote:
GwynapNud the Eccentric wrote:
How do you inject ambition and desire to succeed?


By taking away their ability to survive in the current condition!

It isn't so much to ambition, desire but the availability of resources.

As a comparison, the State of California has a free technical education program called R.O.P., unlike Job Corp there are no age limits. Any one, at any point in their life, can get trained to repair cars, cut hair even become an LVN. (etc) It's a wonderful resource if you live nearby one of the school sites or near public transportation to get you there.

"Why don't they just move?" - because they can't afford to and perhaps live in a region that does not have enough of a Social Services network to empower them to do more.

I think the difficulty in understanding the situation, for us, is that most of us (with a few exceptions) live in more suburban areas that have many resources, public transportation and we have a decent enough support network that if our life goes to **** we can fall back on something/someone.

To achieve new status you need available resources. Working at Mcdonalds for 6-8 per hour, nomatter where you live, is not enough for a family to survive. Tuition reimbursement programs are wonderful if you have the money to invest upfront.

As another example, people who have chronic help problems, generally don't lack in drive or ambition but available resources. My cousins husband is deaf and has a bachelor degree yet places like Chickfilet will turn him down for work....

#17 May 10 2009 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
As another example, people who have chronic help problems, generally don't lack in drive or ambition but available resources. My cousins husband is deaf and has a bachelor degree yet places like Chickfilet will turn him down for work....


Well, would the degree really help?
#18 May 10 2009 at 10:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Hasn't anyone mentioned de-nationalisation of the world yet?

I want Euromerica already.
#19 May 10 2009 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Lady Kalivha wrote:
Hasn't anyone mentioned de-nationalisation of the world yet?

I want Euromerica already.


I think they have to work the bugs outta that whole "European Union" first.
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#20 May 10 2009 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
I think the premise of the OP is only remotely applicable in the Western world. And even there, I'm not sure I agree with it. All to varying degrees: I agree the LGBT issues could conceivably be over within a few generations, for the most part. I very doubt sexism is anywhere near over, and if you lived in a Mediteranean country for a little while, I think you'd doubt it too. Racism is nowhere near finished, unfortunately. And if religion can survive the theory of evolution, I think it'll survive pretty much anything.

I think the next big debates will how the fuck we deal with China. With Water. And definitely some stuff to do with genetics, like modifying genetic information to make your incoming kid smarter/healthier/etc...

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#21 May 10 2009 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
Quote:
As another example, people who have chronic help problems, generally don't lack in drive or ambition but available resources. My cousins husband is deaf and has a bachelor degree yet places like Chickfilet will turn him down for work....


Well, would the degree really help?


With a degree he should be able to find work in his field or a comparable field yet he is stuck trying to get a job, any job because although employers don't knowledge it, once the invite him in for an interview and realize that he is deaf, they give the "thank you, we'll be in touch". It's really sad.
#22 May 10 2009 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk wrote:
Quote:
As another example, people who have chronic help problems, generally don't lack in drive or ambition but available resources. My cousins husband is deaf and has a bachelor degree yet places like Chickfilet will turn him down for work....


Well, would the degree really help?


Depends on the Degree and field. My sister who has develop an disabling chronic disease after she got her current job, is still ale to work, because she has a Masters and experience that have kept her in a job with good health insurance.

I had to leave the last job I held, at an call center since I didn't have the work history or degree for a better job that had health insurance. I would jump at the chance to go back to work, but the cost of my medical bills and medications, which now are cover by Medicaid keeps me on the disability rolls.

Once one becomes disable, a lot of companies won't hire you even with current laws (ADA) that make it illegal, because they fear that hiring an disable person will increase their Health Insurance costs.

For people who want to work, but need health insurance, getting Universal Health Care in the US is a major issue. One that we feel isn't getting enough attention from the Democrats in Congress and the White House. Sorry folks, but until we give every American, access to the medical care they need to hold a job, some of us will stay on SSDI and SSI.

Edited, May 10th 2009 3:40pm by ElneClare
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#23 May 10 2009 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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RedPhoenixxx wrote:
I think the premise of the OP is only remotely applicable in the Western world. And even there, I'm not sure I agree with it.


Yay! I love debate Smiley: smile I'm also a filthy westerner living in her comfortable cocoon. I need conjecture.

RedPhoenixxx wrote:
All to varying degrees: I agree the LGBT issues could conceivably be over within a few generations, for the most part.


I think the worst is over. It is acceptable and becomming more mainstream to be gay and rights are being given. The initial battles are won and those willing to fight the opposing war are to put it bluntly .. dying out as they age and die.

RedPhoenixxx wrote:
I very doubt sexism is anywhere near over, and if you lived in a Mediteranean country for a little while, I think you'd doubt it too.


I do not live in those countries ... and probably a good thing too. I guess I do live in a cocoon Smiley: dubious

RedPhoenixxx wrote:
Racism is nowhere near finished, unfortunately. And if religion can survive the theory of evolution, I think it'll survive pretty much anything.


In its old form - has it survived the theory of evolution? I outright challenge that assumption. "On the Origin of Species" was only published in 1859. The grip of the church on the state (and more crucially the populace minds) has been slipping ever since. The Victorian age was a turning point for religion as a power base, its been in retreat ever since in England at least.

In 50 years time I would hope that any leader making a national decision based on any religious input would be pushed out of office as a throwback to a bygone age.

You only need to look at the Church Bodies in England to see what 50 years can do ... Crusador Tony Blair had to leave office before joining the Catholic church.

RedPhoenixxx wrote:
I think the next big debates will how the fuck we deal with China. With Water. And definitely some stuff to do with genetics, like modifying genetic information to make your incoming kid smarter/healthier/etc...


China is a concern but I do wonder if they have enough of their own problems to deal with before setting their sights to the rest of the world.
Genetics does worry me but as an abused weapon, not for enhancement Smiley: frown
#24 May 10 2009 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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niobia wrote:
With a degree he should be able to find work in his field or a comparable field yet he is stuck trying to get a job, any job because although employers don't knowledge it, once the invite him in for an interview and realize that he is deaf, they give the "thank you, we'll be in touch". It's really sad.


Well, rightfully so (even if sadly so). Even if a place like Chic-fil-a is a fast food restaurant, and not "skilled labor" communication is important. A deaf employee just doesn't work well.

Being deaf is not a small thing to work around. I'm sure your cousin's husband knows that.
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#25 May 10 2009 at 12:00 PM Rating: Good
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TirithRR wrote:
niobia wrote:
With a degree he should be able to find work in his field or a comparable field yet he is stuck trying to get a job, any job because although employers don't knowledge it, once the invite him in for an interview and realize that he is deaf, they give the "thank you, we'll be in touch". It's really sad.


Well, rightfully so (even if sadly so). Even if a place like Chic-fil-a is a fast food restaurant, and not "skilled labor" communication is important. A deaf employee just doesn't work well.

Being deaf is not a small thing to work around. I'm sure your cousin's husband knows that.

his hearing aids combined with lip reading - he's actually very good at communicating (I must say his attention to detail is far better than those of us with normal hearing). See, it's that kind of thinking that allows "us" to discriminate against the disabled. :/
#26 May 10 2009 at 12:50 PM Rating: Good
Gwyn, you should not think what's happening in England is applicable to the whole world. Take the former GDR. Churches are actually doing a lot in some areas to get young people in. I attended a Lutheran church service in one of the less educated areas in East Berlin once and it was a multimedia spetacle, with a pretty good rockband, a theatre performance and other cool stuff. They actually called it "Jesus Party", a sort of cool, English way to put it. Lots of young people were there and many of them were former members of polotical extremist groups. Now, that parish is easily one of the most successful in Germany, but religion is in no way dead yet.

Related to Red's mention of the water issue, I think awareness of climate change is rising and more people are putting some thoughts into how to slow it down.
Water demand/supply has a lot to do with energy and the environment. Take Israel. Their desalination plants use up a LOT of energy and their habit of dumping the salt back into the Mediterranean Sea endangers some species living there.


Also, I'd like to add that unemployment and motivation is a huge problem. Clearly, leaving people to starve upon losing a job is ********* but in a lot of cases (especially in countries with larger amounts of government welfare such as France and Germany), being unemployed isn't that bad, but some people tend to forget about the value of having full-time employment to keep one occupied and regulate one's circadian rhythm. My government has many projects in place to get motivation up again, which I regard as a good thing in itself. The fact that people get sent to work for €1.50 per hour needs to change, though.

Edited, May 10th 2009 10:52pm by Kalivha
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