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#152 Jun 05 2009 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
http://www.milkeninstitute.org/publications/review/2006_12/76_83mr32.pdf

(Just so you know, the direct cost will be > 1 trillion before the end of next year - this is rather olde, but I can't be bothered to search out new, credible, sources).


And I've found sites placing the "cost" of the war in the 3-5 trillion range. It's BS. You can't use "cost" past tense and include future projected costs for things associated with the war. It's more than a bit misleading IMO.

The total amount we have spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the entire "War on Terror" is only slightly more than we spend each and every single year on Medicaid. Let's not pretend that this was a massive cost, doubly so in the context of the amount of single year spending Obama has done in just the first portion of the first year of his term.


The cost in lives and money from Clinton's approach to terrorism was roughly equivalent to that of Bush's. The difference is that Bush's approach spends the money and lives fighting against terrorism, while Clinton's loses the lives to terrorist attacks on civilians and the money is spent cleaning up the messes created by those attacks. We can speculate as to which will result in a greater number of terrorist attacks going forward, but I think most people would rather fight than just spend their efforts licking their wounds after being victimized.


Most people anyway... Unfortunately, the Left in this country has gained massive political "bank" by being the party that stands up for victims, so I suppose a course of action that makes as many victims as possible makes a lot of sense to them. Sad, but seemingly true.
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#153 Jun 05 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Kavekk wrote:
http://www.milkeninstitute.org/publications/review/2006_12/76_83mr32.pdf

(Just so you know, the direct cost will be > 1 trillion before the end of next year - this is rather olde, but I can't be bothered to search out new, credible, sources).

I'm not going to talk about Obama with you. Stop trying to dodge the issue.


The issue was about spending a ton of money over Iraq and Afghanistan, and far more money was wasted. It's unfortunate lives were lost, but when you're goaded into the first war what did you expect? "Hey taliban troops, you want to just give up? Okay thanks. Please make a nice line here". Iraq I believe was more about finishing what they started in the Gulf War. To take down Saddam Hussein.

#154 Jun 05 2009 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Unfortunately, the Left in this country has gained massive political "bank" by being the party that stands up for victims


I vote based on the party that stands up for criminals.
#155 Jun 05 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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manicshock wrote:
Iraq I believe was more about finishing what they started in the Gulf War. To take down Saddam Hussein.


Correct. But also with an understanding that our failure to finish what we started in the Gulf War helped cause a lot of the other problems we were now being faced with. They are not completely unrelated.
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#156 Jun 05 2009 at 5:43 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:


Correct. But also with an understanding that our failure to finish what we started in the Gulf War helped cause a lot of the other problems we were now being faced with. They are not completely unrelated.


Is it finished yet then?
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#157 Jun 05 2009 at 8:38 PM Rating: Good
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LockeColeMA wrote:
Ahkuraj wrote:
::cough:: Iranians are Persian, not Arab. Carry on.


Muhammad was born in Makkah, which is modern day Saudi Arabia, and was an Arab. Since Varrus did not distinguish between about what forefathers of Muslims he was speaking, I decided to pick Muhammad's people :D I mean, technically you could say Jews were fighting Anglo-Saxons, since there are plenty of white Muslims as well.


Varrus' original statement involved Iran and Israel, though. And that is a very important point. Iranians do not commonly consider themselves to be ethnically Arab.

paulsol wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Correct. But also with an understanding that our failure to finish what we started in the Gulf War helped cause a lot of the other problems we were now being faced with. They are not completely unrelated.
Is it finished yet then?


To be perfectly honest the Iraqi people would have been better off if Bush Snr. had invaded and toppled Hussein in the first Gulf War. Ten years of oppressive and tortuous economic sanctions and increasing government brutality - especially after Bush's righteous rhetoric about the New World Order not tolerating a modern-day Hitler - embittered the Iraqis towards the West.

Their continuing resentment is no surprise. America and the western world made promises to topple their dictator, and then didn't. Instead, they put the nation under economic siege, preventing the import of food and vital medical supplies for a decade, all the while allowing corrupt elements of our governments profit from deals with Hussein - who was not harmed at all from the sanction since he still had control of all the money. The money we gave him to feed the Iraqi people in exchange for Iraqi oil. The money he used to build palaces.

The Iraq War is, if nothing else, a vain attempt by America to resolve what they saw as the failure of the Gulf War. I say "vain" because it is much, much too late. Either you intervene and do a @#%^ing good job, or you don't intervene at all. The Gulf War was an intervention that stopped short of achieving the only objective that could have justified it.

Edited, Jun 6th 2009 4:38am by zepoodle
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