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Texas killed innocent manFollow

#1 Sep 03 2009 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
The article is 17 pages long. Here is a link to page 16 where the action is summed up:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann?currentPage=16

In brief, Willingham was accused of arson, killing his 3 children, spent 12 years on death row and was executed. Vasquez is one of the arson investigators who testified it was arson. A commission investigated this (among other cases)

"In mid-August, the noted fire scientist Craig Beyler, who was hired by the commission, completed his investigation. In a scathing report, he concluded that investigators in the Willingham case had no scientific basis for claiming that the fire was arson, ignored evidence that contradicted their theory, had no comprehension of flashover and fire dynamics, relied on discredited folklore, and failed to eliminate potential accidental or alternative causes of the fire. He said that Vasquez’s approach seemed to deny “rational reasoning” and was more “characteristic of mystics or psychics.” What’s more, Beyler determined that the investigation violated, as he put it to me, “not only the standards of today but even of the time period.” "

By the way, there was another expert, not Beyler, who basically reported this all to the state of Texas before the execution. It was ignored.
#2 Sep 03 2009 at 9:22 PM Rating: Excellent
Everyone needs a hobby.

Texas has it's executions.

What do you have against hobbyists?
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#3 Sep 03 2009 at 10:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Do you know who else killed innocent people?

And W is from there. Hmmm.

Edited, Sep 4th 2009 2:00am by CBD
#4 Sep 03 2009 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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CBD wrote:
Do you know who else killed innocent people?


Vets that don't work weekends?
#5 Sep 03 2009 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
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Texas makes a habit of killing innocent people. But to be fair, all other jurisdictions with the death penalty do that too.

To be further fair, it's not my only moral objection to the death penalty.

It's just the one that makes me feel sick the worst.
#6 Sep 03 2009 at 11:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Do they have a quota to fill or something? Damn.
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#7 Sep 04 2009 at 1:55 AM Rating: Decent
Texas maintains control over a state the size of a small country by instilling as much fear in the populace as possible. As Texas is the only state to join the union as a country with it's own federal government, that state has secession rights should it choose to leave the Union. To prevent breakdown of law and order it is essential that the Texas government maintain a reputation of intolerance toward crime that is strictly and fatally enforced. Particularly since the official stance of Texas is against Obama's government, and Texas could pretty much go at any time if Obama doesn't play poker right. That said Yes Texas does have a quota, and no they don't care he was innocent.
#8 Sep 04 2009 at 2:01 AM Rating: Good
Soulrunner the Eccentric wrote:
Texas maintains control over a state the size of a small country by instilling as much fear in the populace as possible. As Texas is the only state to join the union as a country with it's own federal government, that state has secession rights should it choose to leave the Union. To prevent breakdown of law and order it is essential that the Texas government maintain a reputation of intolerance toward crime that is strictly and fatally enforced. Particularly since the official stance of Texas is against Obama's government, and Texas could pretty much go at any time if Obama doesn't play poker right. That said Yes Texas does have a quota, and no they don't care he was innocent.


Yes, you really are a beacon of retardnessness in these enlightened times.
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#9 Sep 04 2009 at 2:15 AM Rating: Decent
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You know what? F*ck Texas. Let them go if they want to. We can invade Cuba and fix up the place a bit and call it the 50th state instead.
#10 Sep 04 2009 at 3:04 AM Rating: Decent
Soulrunner the Eccentric wrote:
Texas maintains control over a state the size of a small country by instilling as much fear in the populace as possible. As Texas is the only state to join the union as a country with it's own federal government, that state has secession rights should it choose to leave the Union. To prevent breakdown of law and order it is essential that the Texas government maintain a reputation of intolerance toward crime that is strictly and fatally enforced. Particularly since the official stance of Texas is against Obama's government, and Texas could pretty much go at any time if Obama doesn't play poker right. That said Yes Texas does have a quota, and no they don't care he was innocent.


Texas CANNOT SECEDE! Old folklore.
Linkie to Ordinance of Annexation passed July 4th, 1845 by the Texas Convention
Quote:
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That Congress doth consent that the territory properly included within and rightfully belonging to the Republic of Texas, may be erected into a new State to be called the State of Texas, with a republican form of government adopted by the people of said Republic, by deputies in convention assembled, with the consent of the existing Government in order that the same may by admitted as one of the States of this Union.

2nd. And be it further resolved, That the foregoing consent of Congress is given upon the following conditions, to wit: First, said state to be formed, subject to the adjustment by this government of all questions of boundary that may arise with other government, --and the Constitution thereof, with the proper evidence of its adoption by the people of said Republic of Texas, shall be transmitted to the President of the United States, to be laid before Congress for its final action on, or before the first day of January, one thousand eight hundred and forty-six. Second, said state when admitted into the Union, after ceding to the United States all public edifices, fortifications, barracks, ports and harbors, navy and navy yards, docks, magazines and armaments, and all other means pertaining to the public defense, belonging to the said Republic of Texas, shall retain funds, debts, taxes and dues of every kind which may belong to, or be due and owing to the said Republic; and shall also retain all the vacant and unappropriated lands lying within its limits, to be applied to the payment of the debts and liabilities of said Republic of Texas, and the residue of said lands, after discharging said debts and liabilities, to be disposed of as said State may direct; but in no event are said debts and liabilities to become a charge upon the Government of the United States. Third -- New States of convenient size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas and having sufficient population, may, hereafter by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the Federal Constitution; and such states as may be formed out of the territory lying south of thirty-six degrees thirty minutes north latitude, commonly known as the Missouri Compromise Line, shall be admitted into the Union, with or without slavery, as the people of each State, asking admission shall desire; and in such State or States as shall be formed out of said territory, north of said Missouri compromise Line, slavery, or involuntary servitude (except for crime) shall be prohibited."
#11 Sep 04 2009 at 3:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Katielynn wrote:
tl;dr



Honestly, what's it going to take to get you to change that avatar...he catches me off gaurd as I scroll down threads, disturbs the **** out of me and makes me want to upper cut you in the ****** just a little bit more everyday.

Huggles and Kisses

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#12 Sep 04 2009 at 4:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Do you know who else killed innocent people? Hitler.
#13 Sep 04 2009 at 4:18 AM Rating: Good
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Texas killed an innocent man? Say it ain't so! Smiley: eek

Didn't someone say the other day something like "If a child in Uganda dies of starvation, it's a terrible thing too, but no one would act shocked." This is sort of the same thing. Terrible, but not shocking.
#14 Sep 04 2009 at 4:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Admiral LockeColeMA wrote:
Texas killed an innocent man? Say it ain't so! Smiley: eek

Didn't someone say the other day something like "If a child in Uganda dies of starvation, it's a terrible thing too, but no one would act shocked." This is sort of the same thing. Terrible, but not shocking.

Oh, they use the Needle in Texas?
#15 Sep 04 2009 at 5:18 AM Rating: Decent
Busaman the Mighty wrote:
Katielynn wrote:
tl;dr



Honestly, what's it going to take to get you to change that avatar...he catches me off gaurd as I scroll down threads, disturbs the sh*t out of me and makes me want to upper cut you in the ****** just a little bit more everyday.

Huggles and Kisses

~Busa


Fixed?
#16 Sep 04 2009 at 5:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Admiral LockeColeMA wrote:
Texas killed an innocent man? Say it ain't so! Smiley: eek

Didn't someone say the other day something like "If a child in Uganda dies of starvation, it's a terrible thing too, but no one would act shocked." This is sort of the same thing. Terrible, but not shocking.

Oh, they use the Needle in Texas?


oh snap
#17 Sep 04 2009 at 5:38 AM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Admiral LockeColeMA wrote:
Texas killed an innocent man? Say it ain't so! Smiley: eek

Didn't someone say the other day something like "If a child in Uganda dies of starvation, it's a terrible thing too, but no one would act shocked." This is sort of the same thing. Terrible, but not shocking.

Oh, they use the Needle in Texas?


'fraid I don't get it.

Unless by "the Needle" you mean "lethal injection." Never heard of it referred to that way. And still not sure what the point is.

Edited, Sep 4th 2009 9:40am by LockeColeMA
#18 Sep 04 2009 at 5:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Katielynn wrote:
Busaman the Mighty wrote:
Katielynn wrote:
tl;dr



Honestly, what's it going to take to get you to change that avatar...he catches me off gaurd as I scroll down threads, disturbs the sh*t out of me and makes me want to upper cut you in the ****** just a little bit more everyday.

Huggles and Kisses

~Busa

Fixed?


Yay kitties!

You have gained favor with the busa, this will not be forgotten. XD

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#19REDACTED, Posted: Sep 04 2009 at 6:00 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The guy did it. If you're babies are in a burning house what do you do? Run around outside screaming or run back in the house, no matter the cost, to get them?
#20 Sep 04 2009 at 6:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Seems to me the guy is not so much a known innocent, as he is not known to be guilty. Regardless, guilt has to be proven.

The last lines of the article:

Quote:
There is a chance, however, that Texas could become the first state to acknowledge officially that, since the advent of the modern judicial system, it had carried out the “execution of a legally and factually innocent person.”
Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.
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#21 Sep 04 2009 at 6:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Seems to me the guy is not so much a known innocent, as he is not known to be guilty. Regardless, guilt has to be proven.

The last lines of the article:

Quote:
There is a chance, however, that Texas could become the first state to acknowledge officially that, since the advent of the modern judicial system, it had carried out the “execution of a legally and factually innocent person.”
Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.


Well, even that assessment is wrong. Didn't Indiana or someplace declare a DP moratorium after it came to light that an executed man was factually innocent?

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#22 Sep 04 2009 at 6:25 AM Rating: Default
So according to liberal democrats penalties for convicted criminals should be based on the possibility that the convicted is innocent?

Let me tell you Christopher Newsom and Shannon Christian deserve better than having the people who did what they did to them taken care of for the rest of their lifes.

Can anyone explain why pictures of mutilated and tortured people can't be shown to the jury but baby pictures of the criminals who perpetrated the crimes are perfectly acceptable?

#23 Sep 04 2009 at 6:30 AM Rating: Excellent
publiusvarus wrote:
If you're babies are in a burning house what do you do? Run around outside screaming or run back in the house, no matter the cost, to get them?


If you're baby in a burning house, there's not much else you can do than scream and get burned alive, unfortunately.
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#24 Sep 04 2009 at 6:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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So you're one of the rednecks who thinks that as long as someone is punished it's all good, right? Doesn't have to be the actual guilty party (if there were, in fact, a guilty party) as long as it's a close approximation?

For a given value of "close", of course.

Texans. Smiley: oyvey Can't live with 'em, can't sell 'em for parts.



Edited, Sep 4th 2009 7:32am by Samira
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#25 Sep 04 2009 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
publiusvarus wrote:
So according to liberal democrats penalties for convicted criminals should be based on the possibility that the convicted is innocent?


Since you have to be guilty "beyond reasonable doubt", then yes, a "possibility" of innocence should be enough to be left off the hook.

What's your preferred standard? Balance of probabilities?


Edited, Sep 4th 2009 2:32pm by RedPhoenixxx
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#26 Sep 04 2009 at 6:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Well, even that assessment is wrong. Didn't Indiana or someplace declare a DP moratorium after it came to light that an executed man was factually innocent?

Republican governor George Ryan took everyone in Illinois off death row and into life sentences following multiple reports of new DNA evidence, faulty evidence, mistaken identities, coerced confessions, etc in capital punishment cases.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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