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Now we KNOW Hitler was a RightyFollow

#1 Sep 07 2009 at 5:52 AM Rating: Good
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Pat Buchanan's defense of Hitler

Poor Adolph. He only ever wanted to save the Germans in Gdansk. But the mean "junta" in Poland refused to give it back. And, worse, the foolish government of Britain was trickified into allying with Poland! But Hitler, poor sad Hitler, he tried so very hard for peace and he even let the British go at Dunkirk! What a great guy, huh?

Besides being entirely built on a strawman ("Hitler wanted to invade the whole world so showing he once asked for peace means he didn't really want to invade the world... I win!") the comments section (you need to click back to page 1) is surreal. The people saying "Hitler was an imperialistic jerk" are told they're stuck on the "old" way of history and not the fresh exciting new ideas Buchanan brings to the table and someday we'll all view Buchanan as the historic visionary he is.
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#2 Sep 07 2009 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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If Hitler wanted to be portrayed as Buchanan does so, then he would've won the war.
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#3 Sep 07 2009 at 6:55 AM Rating: Default
Hitler was not the worst person in history. There were plenty of absolutely cruel emperors and rulers in history, in medieval times for example, who tortured people and killed for amusement. Check out all those medieval torture devices in the museum. Hitler is a wonderful guy compared to some of these historical figures.

He only seems to be worst person anyone can think of right now because he is relatively recent, and many people who lived through WW2 are still alive. Give it a few generations and only historians will have heard about him. I reckon Hitler is overrated. IMO he does not rank too high in the cruel or evil scale of all time. But he ranks very high in his war capabilities, I'll give him that.

Perhaps if he were born a lot earlier, in the days when conquering other countries was acceptable and expected, while burning down rival villages was common to all factions, he would have been a legend like Genghis Khan for example.

But in this day and age, causing civilian casualty and suffering, especially intentionally, through war is understandably considered criminally wrong, and he is guilty of a lot of that.
#4 Sep 07 2009 at 6:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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You know, I was going to make a thread about that once but never really solidified the thoughts. It seems that the old saw "history is written by the winners" doesn't quite hold true these days. Go to a bookstore's history section and half of it will be books with "bold new theories" about how this guy was gay or this war was actually caused by the Eskimos or those people invented steel in 2000 BC or whatever. Most of which are poorly constructed, have major flaws and seem to exist bouyed primarily on the fact that they aren't that your daddy's history books.
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#5 Sep 07 2009 at 6:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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McGame wrote:
Hitler was not the worst person in history.

What on earth does that have to do with the causes of the Second World War and the asinine notion that Hitler only ever wanted peace?
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#6 Sep 07 2009 at 7:05 AM Rating: Default
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What on earth does that have to do with the causes of the Second World War and the asinine notion that Hitler only ever wanted peace?


Nothing. I don't buy his point of view either. I have my own view of Hitler, which is quite different from most people.
#7 Sep 07 2009 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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He's perfecting his strawman approach.
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#8 Sep 07 2009 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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Now would be an excellent time to tell us what your view is, seeing as that's what the thread is about.
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#9 Sep 07 2009 at 7:18 AM Rating: Default
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Now would be an excellent time to tell us what your view is, seeing as that's what the thread is about.


I've already indicated what my view is. Most people reckon he is evil. Full stop. Buchanan tries to say he is actually a nice bloke defending his people from the rest of the world. My view is somewhere in between. Both sides of the debate have facts that support their view, so he is not outright wrong, nor is he a great guy. His actions would have been judged differently were it carried out in a different period in history. He could have been regarded a war hero, but at this time, he is regarded an evil war criminal. There is no definite right or wrong about him, he was just born in the wrong time period.
#10 Sep 07 2009 at 7:21 AM Rating: Decent
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In all the hullabaloo about little things like war and genocide, I feel that people forget to mention what a nice *** Hitler has. I'd hit it.





Edited, Sep 7th 2009 10:21am by Bardalicious
#11 Sep 07 2009 at 7:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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McGame wrote:
There is no definite right or wrong about him, he was just born in the wrong time period.
You're not born into the wrong time period, you are born into a time period you need to adapt to.
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#12 Sep 07 2009 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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McGame wrote:
Most people reckon he is evil. Full stop.

Hence the phrase "Even Hitler painted flowers". Most people think (rightfully) that Hitler's genocidial ideologies were evil, full stop. His imperialism, while unappreciated by the Free World (tm), wasn't "evil" in the same sense but he was unquestionably the instigator of it and it happened intentionally, by his plans. Well, unless you're Pat Buchanan. I doubt many people who've stopped to think about it consider some supernatural Force of Evil or anything.
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#13 Sep 07 2009 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
I doubt many people who've stopped to think about it consider some supernatural Force of Evil or anything.

The Jews made him do it.
#14 Sep 07 2009 at 8:28 AM Rating: Good
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McGame wrote:
Hitler was not the worst person in history. There were plenty of absolutely cruel emperors and rulers in history, in medieval times for example, who tortured people and killed for amusement. Check out all those medieval torture devices in the museum. Hitler is a wonderful guy compared to some of these historical figures.


The problem was, most of those other dictators never reached for the economy of scale Hitler did. He wasn't just imprisoning, torturing, and killing people, he was doing it in big job lots with automated efficiency.

His place in memory is well earned. Ask the 6 million.
#15 Sep 07 2009 at 8:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ambrya wrote:
His place in memory is well earned. Ask the 6 million.
I did, but i'm still waiting on their reply. Which is just rude as I'm sure they have more than enough time on their hands.
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#16 Sep 07 2009 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Ambrya wrote:
His place in memory is well earned. Ask the 6 million.
I did, but i'm still waiting on their reply. Which is just rude as I'm sure they have more than enough time on their hands.


Yeah, I forgot the "Oh, that's right, you can't, because they're dead" snarky last sentence on that, dammit.
#17 Sep 07 2009 at 8:55 AM Rating: Decent
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There is no definite right or wrong about him, he was just born in the wrong time period.


It's not like Hitler is different than anything else in this regard. I could dither about anyone and find redeeming or mitigating qualities in anything, but I don't think that should have much effect on ultimately judging people.
#18 Sep 07 2009 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Hitler was not the worst person in history


The whole murdering 6 million Jews thing kinda of shoots you right to the top of "Worst person in History" list despite how many roads you build or kittens you pet.

Edited, Sep 7th 2009 1:17pm by ThiefX
#19 Sep 07 2009 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you're going by the numbers, he wasn't even the worst in his generation. It's not really about the numbers, though, is it?

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#20 Sep 07 2009 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
Samira wrote:
If you're going by the numbers, he wasn't even the worst in his generation. It's not really about the numbers, though, is it?



Well, Stalin is out of the picture though, at least according to the new Russian history books. One of the greatest leaders of the USSR now apparently, those 20 or so million dead be damned.

Mao is definitely not considered bad in China, well, not by all Chinese anyway.

In a 100 years, Great Britain and the USA will be seen as the aggressors Smiley: grin

Mind you, with about 9 million dead Germans, 6 or so million Jews, another 6 or so million others who died in the gas chambers, shot or burned to death, a couple of million civilians and soldiers of other European countries, even numberwise, Hitler could be seen as responsible for a heck of a lot of people.

And that's not taking into account all the dead in Asia or the USA (how many did die in Europe and how many fighting Japan?), although I suppose Hitler isn't responsible for the actions of Japan.

#21 Sep 07 2009 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
Anyone seen Hitler's new career btw?

I really don't know if it's really all that effective, considering the increasing number of people being in favour of Hitler these days.
#22 Sep 07 2009 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I'll agree that Hitler might not be the worse person in history. The Japanese did even more ****** up ****, always Stalin, not to mention history is full of rape and murder. The reason Hitler is seen as the "worst" is because first, we have numbers, millions of jews. Not just a lot of jews, but millions. You need a well thought out system to kill millions of people. And Jews are pretty friendly, good at writing sitcoms, kill a million chinese, and we can't relate at all.
#23 Sep 07 2009 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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Zieveraar wrote:
Anyone seen Hitler's new career btw?
Also, he's a pretty good singer.
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#24 Sep 07 2009 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
If you're going by the numbers, he wasn't even the worst in his generation. It's not really about the numbers, though, is it?


Stalin wrote:
"One death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic."


Oh, that Uncle Joe; always with the funnyjokes.


@ McGame:

If you HAVE a notion of evil at all, agressive war upon your neighbors to loot their resources and enslave their people qualifies.


Idiot.

Edited, Sep 7th 2009 4:55pm by Bijou
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#25 Sep 07 2009 at 2:49 PM Rating: Good
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Hitler was a vegetarian, so he cant be all bad eh?

And Stalin?

Well Stalin was on our side, so all the people whose deaths he was responsible for, the death camps/marches, the retributive slaughters and his re-invasion of Poland, for example, can be excused, because after all, it was for the good of the rest of us.
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#26 Sep 07 2009 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
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Hey, McGame. Now that I re-read your post there, I'm morbidly curious as to who YOU think qualifies as "worst person in history".

Please, do tell us!
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