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A thank you for the AsylumFollow

#1 Dec 11 2009 at 9:19 PM Rating: Good
As I've mentioned in numerous places, I am preparing for the GRE exam next week. One thing I am not concerned about is the essay section of the exam. Thanks to everyone here, I have a strong chance at a very high score on the essays.

For example, I learned how to pick apart gbaji and Varus' twisted reasoning and formulate point by point rebuttals based on failures of logic and evidence at hand. This trick will surely serve me well in the analytical essay. All I need to do is merely imagine one of our beloved conservatrolls spouting off the argument, and the answer flows from my fingertips as if I had hit the reply button.

I also was trained to present my evidence and citations up front, as they can and will be challenged by both friend and foe alike. I must pick my position and stick to it firmly, but not so firmly that when my own logic or arguments are deconstructed that I am left wafting in the wind with nothing left to ground them upon. Noting the viewpoints from the other side is important, but anticipating them and preemptively rebutting them is even more important.

Most importantly, I learned to proofread, as nothing deflates a wonderful zinger quite as well as 'This post was edited by Catwho' on the bottom. If I cannot get my rebuttals and talking points down the first time, everyone knows it. I still make the occasional mistake, but the first thing I do after hitting submit is to read over it once more, for it is better to catch the grammar error myself rather than have it pointed out to me by my foes.

So, when I receive my formal scores in a month or two, if I obtain a 5 or a 6, you will all be among the first to know. You may be proud, knowing that your efforts unconsciously helped me along in my graduate school career. Thank you.
#2 Dec 11 2009 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Dude, if you think that hanging out in here will influence your score any more than a two or a three, you deserve a fail.

Good luck!
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#3 Dec 11 2009 at 9:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Remember to take a bunch of foam red arrows with you to throw at other people taking the exam nearby. It adds realism!

Good luck!
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#4 Dec 11 2009 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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You can pay us if you want.

What are you doing your grad work in?
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#5 Dec 11 2009 at 9:49 PM Rating: Excellent
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Remember to take a bunch of foam red arrows with you to throw at other people taking the exam nearby. It adds realism!

Good luck!


Or just take some regular arrows. They'll become red, soon enough.
#6 Dec 11 2009 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
I'm applying to the MIT program at UGA, which is the Master of Internet Technology. It's an interdisciplinary program between the business school and the department of computer science. The goal is to produce someone with the business end of an MBA but with more of an IT slant, suitable for IT director positions.

I already knocked out the lone prerequisite (an introductory Java class) so the GRE is the next logical step.
#7 Dec 11 2009 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I took them myself last week. The writing sections were very simple: one argument creation and one argument analysis.

Also, since I don't study for anything, or prepare at all really (nasty habit, that,) I didn't realize that verbal averages are about 150 points lower than math averages (on average!) so don't be sad like me if your quant is the same as verbal; it's apparently a good indication.

Quote:
This trick will surely serve me well in the analytical essay. All I need to do is merely imagine one of our beloved conservatrolls spouting off the argument, and the answer flows from my fingertips as if I had hit the reply button.


I don't think that this is a good plan, personally, and I don't know how facetious you are. The analytic essay is meant to judge your ability to appraise form, not soundness. Certainly the latter must follow from the former, and is required of you in the other essay (when you craft one yourself,) but judgments of analysis might ideally be hypotheticals.
#8 Dec 11 2009 at 10:01 PM Rating: Good
I have a rather unfair advantage, in that my husband is trained to teach the GRE for the Princeton Review, and I've been forcing him to read my essays. He says I have the five paragraph technique down rather well.

You are definitely meant to analyze the soundness of the argument. You are supposed to point out the weak points, note any lack of support, and then offer suggestions for improving the argument. On my last two practice tests, the most annoying thing was that they were "letters to the editor" and I was trying to figure out other ways to say "the person that wrote this letter" and "the author" as I was repeating them too often.
#9 Dec 11 2009 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
the five paragraph technique down rather well.


Have the GREs really fallen that low?

Quote:
You are definitely meant to analyze the soundness of the argument.


Of course you are. You are not, however, meant to argue yourself.
#10 Dec 11 2009 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Have the GREs really fallen that low?


Well, you can do 6 paragraphs if you're feeling ambitious. But yes, the graders for the essay portion are expecting the 5 paragraph format, and if you deviate from it, it better be a damn good essay.
#11 Dec 11 2009 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
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Have the GREs really fallen that low?


Well, you can do 6 paragraphs if you're feeling ambitious. But yes, the graders for the essay portion are expecting the 5 paragraph format, and if you deviate from it, it better be a damn good essay.


That's retarded. I thought people left that behind in freshman year of highschool. What an insipid guideline for an exam meant to judge people worthy of doing theses.
#12 Dec 11 2009 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
You're only given 30-45 minutes to write the essays. They're expecting solid reasoning and analytic thinking on a fairly simple subject. Sure, if you had 3 hours per essay, you could concoct a much deeper multiple page paper. You don't. So they expect 5-6 fairly formulaic paragraphs, maximum.

That said, the 5 paragraph format is learned in freshman English, but many a college graduate failed to master it.
#13 Dec 11 2009 at 10:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just think, 5 years ago, every reply to this thread would have included "GFY", and half of them would have been Thundra.
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#14 Dec 11 2009 at 10:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
They're expecting solid reasoning and analytic thinking on a fairly simple subject.


The most appropriate method to judge this, certainly then, is a formula in which you don't analyze or judge your writing. Perfect sense.

Quote:
Sure, if you had 3 hours per essay, you could concoct a much deeper multiple page paper.


45 minutes should be sufficient for maybe 1600-2000 words. I'm not sure how long paragraphs are on average, but for me that's about 6 pages in word if I double-space it. Even 5 paragraphs is about 800, which is 3 in word if I double-space it.

This is one of those things I just am embarrassed to even hear about. It's a crime against pedagogy for you to be right, though I fear in my heart that examiners would actually look for these criteria. The fact that some attitude like this is pervasive enough to be offered as advice to someone writing a paper is such a stain on the intellectual capacity of the country that it's legitimately saddening.

Quote:
Just think, 5 years ago, every reply to this thread would have included "GFY", and half of them would have been Thundra.


Sure you don't mean 7 years? 5 Sounds awfully recent for some reason.

Edited, Dec 11th 2009 11:52pm by Pensive
#15 Dec 11 2009 at 11:19 PM Rating: Good
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Pensive, it's just part of a standardized test. It's just a small part of an application. Like for me, I had to have almost fifty pages of written work to pass in with my some of my applications. The shortest one only required about twenty pages. That was more relevant
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#16 Dec 11 2009 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:

45 minutes should be sufficient for maybe 1600-2000 words. I'm not sure how long paragraphs are on average, but for me that's about 6 pages in word if I double-space it. Even 5 paragraphs is about 800, which is 3 in word if I double-space it.

This is one of those things I just am embarrassed to even hear about. It's a crime against pedagogy for you to be right, though I fear in my heart that examiners would actually look for these criteria. The fact that some attitude like this is pervasive enough to be offered as advice to someone writing a paper is such a stain on the intellectual capacity of the country that it's legitimately saddening.

Or maybe they want to avoid having the clock and its associated pressures being the limiting factor in the essays. I really couldn't say, just throwing it out there.

#17 Dec 11 2009 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
Pensive, it's just part of a standardized test. It's just a small part of an application. Like for me, I had to have almost fifty pages of written work to pass in with my some of my applications. The shortest one only required about twenty pages. That was more relevant


Look lady, other than some sort of cool irony here in that you're raining on a parade of rants, that's got nothin' to do with it.
#18 Dec 11 2009 at 11:32 PM Rating: Good
The sample essays in my study guides and their associated grade ranges were telling. All the essays were roughly the same length. The difference was all in the actual content. The 5-6 essays read like a long Jophiel post. The 3-4 essays read like a gbaji post. The 1-2 essays ready like a long Virus post. (0 essays are what happens when someone opts to write on a subject other than the one presented.)

But they were all around 500-750 words or so.

Edit: Lucky for me, my work for Yamato and NoSeph for Smiley: moogle is my portfolio for application. Yay for no additional work!

Edited, Dec 12th 2009 12:36am by catwho
#19 Dec 11 2009 at 11:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Length isn't the really troubling thing. It's the notion that since we have five fingers and think of it as a nice round number that is forms some magical formula for an essay. If something -happens- to become that length, awesome! but writing to a formula, especially in that retarded three pronged thesis assertion, is a self-defeating criterion for the test. "The format" is ludicrous insofar as it is a format, not in how long it is or not.

Edited, Dec 12th 2009 12:42am by Pensive
#20 Dec 12 2009 at 12:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Just think, 5 years ago, every reply to this thread would have included "GFY", and half of them would have been Thundra.

The good old days?
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we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#21 Dec 12 2009 at 12:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:


Sure you don't mean 7 years? 5 Sounds awfully recent for some reason.


I dunno, maybe. After 9 and a half years it all runs together. The really ******* scary part is I have the oldest active admin account now. Darqflame has been an admin longer than me, as have some others (maia, fleven, etc.) but i've been here longer than all of them now. never saw that one coming.


Good old days, old days, who knows?
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#22 Dec 12 2009 at 12:45 AM Rating: Good
There's also the fact that they have to grade these essays super fast. Watching my husband fly through 90 final papers these last few days has given me a new perspective on what grading papers fast is like. These aren't terribly long papers, and they're sophomore students so sometimes it's painful, but more or less he reads through the paper and if it sounds good and met some VERY basic criteria (grammar, topic, sources, etc) it gets an A. He spends no more than 10 minutes per paper; sometimes much less if it is a good paper and he doesn't have to actually document any major deductions. (One student, who is graduating from the school tomorrow with a 4.0, turned in a paper he didn't even look at. She would have had to get a 30 on her final paper to get anything less than an A, so he just went ahead and gave her the A since she was the best student in all 5 of his classes.)

The GRE adjudicators are looking for the formula because it makes it easier for them to grade the content. Intro, point/support x 3, conclusion. Bam bam bam. Anything more complicated and they'll dock points out of sheer annoyance at having to do more work.
#23 Dec 12 2009 at 2:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Have the GREs really fallen that low?

I think the bar was already set incredibly low. I was taking a few GMAT practice test to assess my potential score, and the math is just ridiculously easy. GMAT is supposed to be harder on math and easier on vocab than the GRE, but the most difficult problems I'm seeing are 9nth grade geometry. A perfect score is very reasonably obtainable, which makes the test a joke.

Edited, Dec 12th 2009 2:29am by Allegory
#24 Dec 12 2009 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Have the GREs really fallen that low?

I think the bar was already set incredibly low. I was taking a few GMAT practice test to assess my potential score, and the math is just ridiculously easy. GMAT is supposed to be harder on math and easier on vocab than the GRE, but the most difficult problems I'm seeing are 9nth grade geometry. A perfect score is very reasonably obtainable, which makes the test a joke.

Edited, Dec 12th 2009 2:29am by Allegory


Math parts of the GREs are always the easiest parts of the tests. The verbal part of the test is always harder. IIRC, they are looking for college level proficiencyHigh School level proficiency (many people don't take college level mathematics). If they want some more indication of a particular area, they require you to take the GRE subject test. Also, you are overestimating the importance of the test.





Edited, Dec 12th 2009 9:51am by Annabella
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#25 Dec 12 2009 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Also, you are overestimating the importance of the test.


Just because it's only of minor importance doesn't mean you shouldn't try to do good work.
#26 Dec 12 2009 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
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Pensive the Ludicrous wrote:
Quote:
Also, you are overestimating the importance of the test.


Just because it's only of minor importance doesn't mean you shouldn't try to do good work.


It means they aren't going to raise the bar super hard so people spend all their time studying for the test. Personally, I'd much rather they'd read my thesis than care about my essay test scores.

Edited, Dec 12th 2009 9:51am by Annabella
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