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#102 Jan 13 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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sixgauge wrote:
While sometimes homosexuality can be due to wiring at birth, many homosexuals are that way by choice or because of an experience they had (i.e. - learned).

Things in this world, include sexual orientation, are not just black and white. Saying that every "gay" person was born that way is ridiculous. Would you look at it differently if you were born with black hair but color it blond? It's just preference for many (because these many can and will tell you that they were hetero at one point), and no I'm not saying that should change the issue at hand.


Please, tell me you're joking.
#103REDACTED, Posted: Jan 13 2010 at 1:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I hated broccoli at 10, but love it at 30. It can be something you learn to enjoy or find beauty in, even if it takes time. It's not about "making you gay", it's about finding something you find pleasure in. That doesn't mean everyone was born that way. That was my point.
#104 Jan 13 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tastes, as in taste buds, change as you mature. Sexuality doesn't, although you are correct in saying that you learn more about your own sexuality as you mature.

It's not the same thing.

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#105 Jan 13 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

No research has found provable biological or genetic differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals.


I don't think you understand how the modern scientific method works.
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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#106 Jan 13 2010 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
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Tastes, as in taste buds, change as you mature. Sexuality doesn't,


In some cases it does. But it's not an active "choice".
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#107 Jan 13 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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As a bisexual person, I could marry someone of either sex conceivably. I don't understand why the state privileges one relationship over another or why should one be sanctioned by the state and one not. It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.
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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#108 Jan 13 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Edit: I agree with Anna, and wish to be more pleasing to Samira.

Ugly can go ginger himself.

Edited, Jan 13th 2010 2:13pm by Tarub
#109 Jan 13 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Default
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Tastes, as in taste buds, change as you mature. Sexuality doesn't,

Why doesn't it? You really believe that people have the same sexual habits and tendencies over time? Again, you are looking at it as black or white and not the myriad of colors that are wrapped up in emotions and experiences.

Sexual Attitudes and Behavior section

It could be as simple as having a sexual experience (experiment?) with a partner who was fantastic or it could be your inner most desire that could prompt you to do something like have a sex change. Just don't simplify is as "they were born that way."

Quote:
It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.

100% agree with this.

Edit: Part of my problem is "they were born that way" sounds like some kind of genetic defect when it shouldn't be classified like that.

Edited, Jan 13th 2010 12:02pm by sixgauge
#110 Jan 13 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Tarub wrote:
Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
As a bisexual person, I could marry someone of either sex conceivably. I don't understand why the state privileges one relationship over another or why should one be sanctioned by the state and one not. It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.
Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
As a bisexual person, I could marry someone of either sex conceivably. I don't understand why the state privileges one relationship over another or why should one be sanctioned by the state and one not. It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.
Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
As a bisexual person, I could marry someone of either sex conceivably. I don't understand why the state privileges one relationship over another or why should one be sanctioned by the state and one not. It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.
Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
As a bisexual person, I could marry someone of either sex conceivably. I don't understand why the state privileges one relationship over another or why should one be sanctioned by the state and one not. It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.
Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
As a bisexual person, I could marry someone of either sex conceivably. I don't understand why the state privileges one relationship over another or why should one be sanctioned by the state and one not. It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.
Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
As a bisexual person, I could marry someone of either sex conceivably. I don't understand why the state privileges one relationship over another or why should one be sanctioned by the state and one not. It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.
Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
As a bisexual person, I could marry someone of either sex conceivably. I don't understand why the state privileges one relationship over another or why should one be sanctioned by the state and one not. It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.
Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
As a bisexual person, I could marry someone of either sex conceivably. I don't understand why the state privileges one relationship over another or why should one be sanctioned by the state and one not. It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.


x16, even
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#111 Jan 13 2010 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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That is really, really annoying.

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#112 Jan 13 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Default
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I don't think you understand how the modern scientific method works.

I'll admit I may be confused in regards to the scientific method when applied to discerning sexual orientation at birth. Explain it to me so I can cure my ignorance.
#113 Jan 13 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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sixgauge wrote:
Quote:
Tastes, as in taste buds, change as you mature. Sexuality doesn't,

Why doesn't it? You really believe that people have the same sexual habits and tendencies over time? Again, you are looking at it as black or white and not the myriad of colors that are wrapped up in emotions and experiences.

Sexual Attitudes and Behavior section

It could be as simple as having a sexual experience (experiment?) with a partner who was fantastic or it could be your inner most desire that could prompt you to do something like have a sex change. Just don't simplify is as "they were born that way."

Quote:
It doesn't matter whether it's nature or nurture; that has nothing to do with the reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.

100% agree with this.

Edit: Part of my problem is "they were born that way" sounds like some kind of genetic defect when it shouldn't be classified like that.

Edited, Jan 13th 2010 12:02pm by sixgauge

We're not talking about something as simple as whether or not you find a particular food "icky". Yes, sexuality is somewhat fluid in the sense of versatility. That being said, I don't think anyone can make the argument that one day I'm going to think "hey, a ****** sounds pretty good right about now"
#114 Jan 13 2010 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Tastes, as in taste buds, change as you mature. Sexuality doesn't,


I missed this. Sexuality should (does) change depending on the quality of relations (and with whom, and how you feel about them, etc). Yes at the core of it, we are all animals in heat (not literally - I'm looking at you, furries) But to be able to know your partner will treat you the way you want to be treated, and have you both walk away for the better afterward, takes a lot of give and take (heh), communication, understanding, etc. Even purely physical sex has these elements unless one person is abusing the other, or another is uncomfortable but not communicating it. This is why sex is often confused with love. However, I equate sex to more like food, just a purely physical thing that satisfies. To have someone take the time and get to know what you like, will generate positive feelings (Even if it as simple as "hold the mayo"). However, making love is all about sex while also emotionally and mentally connected to who the person is in all (known) aspects of both their self and your time together. People really need to stop confusing the two, as there is nothing wrong with either, but both mean drastically different things to different people. Unless you are one of those types that never has sex without being in love, you prudes :p

As a small aside, I'd like to take this moment to laugh at the guy on the news I saw at the NJ gay marriage protests whose main campaign was "Gays will raise the teen sex, teen pregnancy, and teen abortion rate"





Edited, Jan 13th 2010 2:59pm by Tarub
#115 Jan 13 2010 at 2:10 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
We're not talking about something as simple as whether or not you find a particular food "icky". Yes, sexuality is somewhat fluid in the sense of versatility. That being said, I don't think anyone can make the argument that one day I'm going to think "hey, a ****** sounds pretty good right about now"

Probably not, but if you ever slip and fall into a really good one you might get an itch for one somewhere down the line. Clearly, I'm either confusing as hell or just hitting a sore topic. I've said my peace.

Edited, Jan 13th 2010 12:21pm by sixgauge
#116 Jan 13 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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sixgauge wrote:
Quote:
We're not talking about something as simple as whether or not you find a particular food "icky". Yes, sexuality is somewhat fluid in the sense of versatility. That being said, I don't think anyone can make the argument that one day I'm going to think "hey, a ****** sounds pretty good right about now"

Probably not, but if you ever slip and fall into a really good one you might get an itch for one somewhere down the line. Clearly, I'm either confusing as hell or just hitting a sore topic so I'll take my leave. I've said my peace.


If a ****** is so large as to have me fall into it, I doubt it'd be worthwhile :D


But in all seriousness, this is a sore topic for quite a few people here I'd say. I'm gay, and I am easily offended when people start to tell me that me being gay is me being confused, or that I chose to be this way, or that it's something wrong with me, or any other inane dribble that people come up with.

Basically, when people talk out their *** about something this important to me, I get pissed off.
#117 Jan 13 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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sixgauge wrote:
Quote:
We're not talking about something as simple as whether or not you find a particular food "icky". Yes, sexuality is somewhat fluid in the sense of versatility. That being said, I don't think anyone can make the argument that one day I'm going to think "hey, a ****** sounds pretty good right about now"

Probably not, but if you ever slip and fall into a really good one you might get an itch for one somewhere down the line. Clearly, I'm either confusing as hell or just hitting a sore topic. I've said my peace.

Edited, Jan 13th 2010 12:21pm by sixgauge


So if you slip and fall on a wee-wee you might just get the itch for another one down the line, too?
#118 Jan 13 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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In sixgauge's defense, I do agree that it is problematic when people speak about granting rights to homosexual and other ***** people because we're born that way and we can't help it--like it's an affliction and we deserve the mercy of society. It doesn't matter if we're "born that way" or if there is a gay gene or if there is a mix or whatever. Alot of this stuff doesn't even acknowledge the complexity of gender, let alone sexuality.
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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#119 Jan 13 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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Nadenu wrote:

So if you slip and fall on a wee-wee you might just get the itch for another one down the line, too?

I know that's how I got my start :D
#120 Jan 13 2010 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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Tarub wrote:
As a small aside, I'd like to take this moment to laugh at the guy on the news I saw at the NJ gay sex protests whose main campaign was "Gays will raise the teen sex, teen pregnancy, and teen abortion rate"

Or the black female publicly rejoicing in the rights she would have been denied in the past, right before she praised the defeat of the gay marriage bill.

And yes, there is enough evidence that it is both a choice (bisexuals?) and not a choice (like the people who commit suicide because they were ashamed to be gay, try asking them to "switch"). But in the end it's not relevant whatsoever to the matter at hand. Homosexuality has always existed, it's naturally occurring, and its not going anywhere.
#121 Jan 13 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Default
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So if you slip and fall on a wee-wee you might just get the itch for another one down the line, too?

LOL.. I would think that if I enjoyed it I would. I have been approached, but I don't have the desire to. If I did and ended up enjoying it, it would be something I have learn to enjoy through experiences and not something I was from birth.
#122 Jan 13 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
In sixgauge's defense, I do agree that it is problematic when people speak about granting rights to homosexual and other ***** people because we're born that way and we can't help it--like it's an affliction and we deserve the mercy of society. It doesn't matter if we're "born that way" or if there is a gay gene or if there is a mix or whatever. Alot of this stuff doesn't even acknowledge the complexity of gender, let alone sexuality.


Agreed. It just irks me to have the whole subject trivialized. "It's like changing your pants! No, your preferred condiments! No, your makeup!"

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#123 Jan 13 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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sixgauge wrote:
Quote:
So if you slip and fall on a wee-wee you might just get the itch for another one down the line, too?

LOL.. I would think that if I enjoyed it I would. I have been approached, but I don't have the desire to. If I did and ended up enjoying it, it would be something I have learn to enjoy through experiences and not something I was from birth.


Or, you need a good ladyboy. Just sayin'

Edited, Jan 13th 2010 1:43pm by Tarub
#124 Jan 13 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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sixgauge wrote:
Quote:
So if you slip and fall on a wee-wee you might just get the itch for another one down the line, too?

LOL.. I would think that if I enjoyed it I would. I have been approached, but I don't have the desire to. If I did and ended up enjoying it, it would be something I have learn to enjoy through experiences and not something I was from birth.


Or it's just as valid to say you always had the capacity and didn't know it until you more fully explored your inherent sexuality.

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#125 Jan 13 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
Annabella of Future Fabulous! wrote:
In sixgauge's defense, I do agree that it is problematic when people speak about granting rights to homosexual and other ***** people because we're born that way and we can't help it--like it's an affliction and we deserve the mercy of society. It doesn't matter if we're "born that way" or if there is a gay gene or if there is a mix or whatever. Alot of this stuff doesn't even acknowledge the complexity of gender, let alone sexuality.


Agreed. It just irks me to have the whole subject trivialized. "It's like changing your pants! No, your preferred condiments! No, your makeup!"



Yeah, he used a pretty awful example.
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Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#126 Jan 13 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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sixgauge wrote:
Quote:
So if you slip and fall on a wee-wee you might just get the itch for another one down the line, too?

LOL.. I would think that if I enjoyed it I would. I have been approached, but I don't have the desire to. If I did and ended up enjoying it, it would be something I have learn to enjoy through experiences and not something I was from birth.

so basically it would be something you enjoyed, but didn't know you enjoyed until you did it.

That is to say that your capacity to enjoy the act came before the act itself.
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