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Retarded strategic decisions.Follow

#1 Jan 19 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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#2 Jan 19 2010 at 4:44 PM Rating: Good
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Oo, oo! Lets EVER sell our weapons and defence technologies or services overseas!

The free market will solve ALL problems! Get out of the way of making money, and everything will always be well!
#3 Jan 19 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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Neodymium isn't actually that rare, and we can mine it here. We just haven't been.
#4 Jan 19 2010 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
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Sweetums wrote:
Neodymium isn't actually that rare, and we can mine it here. We just haven't been.


True, but it's not only that. It's that the whole process, mining, refining, proccessing, and component manufacturing has been shipped over.
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#5 Jan 19 2010 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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You know what was a good idea? Selling tech manufacturing trade secrets to the Japanese. Surely they'd never develop the infrastructure to take from us a market we dominate.
#6 Jan 19 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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Timelordwho wrote:
Sweetums wrote:
Neodymium isn't actually that rare, and we can mine it here. We just haven't been.


True, but it's not only that. It's that the whole process, mining, refining, proccessing, and component manufacturing has been shipped over.

Just to get significant production of a rare earth itself from scratch, from a new mine, it takes 5 to 10 years. In effect all rare earth supplies for components for missile guidance systems have been coming from one mine in China, and no-one stopped and thought, this supply chain might be a little fragile? A little "all eggs in one basket"? A little undiversified? A little without risk spread? A little not under one's own national control?

I'm not asking from a position of superiority here. Australia's national defence is *well* out of our own control, far more than America's. But if not only the raw supplies but the manufacture of the end chip set is made in China, that means that you've got a 15 year lead time before you can manufacture your own present missile technology again if China shuts down supply.
#7 Jan 19 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Decent
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While the article mentions missile guidance systems, the quantities needed for that in relation to other larger industries is minimal. That's before realizing that specific requirements for production of weapon systems in the US prohibit reliance on a number of nations (including China) for any component. Yes. Even back to where the raw materials were mined.

The real impact is on most of the green tech stuff mentioned. There's a need to ramp up production of that stuff, and it takes a lot more of the rare earth elements than we're consuming currently. I'm not worried about this from a military standpoint. It's China realizing it can make a profit. Not surprising really.

Honestly, I'm quite amused by the same green industry supporters being hoist on their own petard here. Basically, their own unwillingness to loosen restrictions on mining of these needed materials in their own countries is causing this situation. It's a catch-22, isn't it? To use the "green" technology, you have to operate mines which are decidedly "un-green". Up till now most of the proponents of this movement have been satisfied with an "out of sight, out of mind" approach. As long as the mining is done in dirty China, we'll that's just peachy... hah!
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#8 Jan 19 2010 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
While the article mentions missile guidance systems, the quantities needed for that in relation to other larger industries is minimal. That's before realizing that specific requirements for production of weapon systems in the US prohibit reliance on a number of nations (including China) for any component. Yes. Even back to where the raw materials were mined.


Except that those specific requirements for weapons systems production were waived for the GM subdivision buyout when the approval documentation was sent to be reviewed by an exceptions override committee which is little more than a rubber stamping factory for corporate interests.
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#9 Jan 19 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Timelordwho wrote:
Quote:
While the article mentions missile guidance systems, the quantities needed for that in relation to other larger industries is minimal. That's before realizing that specific requirements for production of weapon systems in the US prohibit reliance on a number of nations (including China) for any component. Yes. Even back to where the raw materials were mined.


Except that those specific requirements for weapons systems production were waived for the GM subdivision buyout when the approval documentation was sent to be reviewed by an exceptions override committee which is little more than a rubber stamping factory for corporate interests.


Er? General Motors makes missile guidance systems? I'll admit that my direct knowledge of work on sensitive electronics in weapons systems is a bit out of date, but I know from fairly direct information that the background materials requirements for *any* such work in the US is extensive and in some cases ridiculously overcautious. It's done precisely so that our weapons systems capability cannot be compromised by any single (or even a group) of nations breaking off relations with us.


If rare earth elements are required in weapons systems (and I'll assume they are in some of them, but probably fewer than you think), you can be sure that at least for military supply purposes, the US government has secured at least three separate sources, none of which are from a nation with less then a high rating in terms of friendliness towards the US. I would not be at all surprised if the US government operates a small mine inside the US that it simply doesn't advertise in order to ensure it has enough of these materials.


Unless requirements have dramatically changed in just the last 4 or 5 years, there's no way that anything China does to limit production of REE in its own country can affect US weapons production capability.
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#10 Jan 19 2010 at 9:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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The sensors in question that require rare earth are the solid state gyroscopes and accelerometers used for in flight positioning. The same accelerometers that are found in most radio controlled helicopters and most newer motion sensitive phones, only on a much grander scale.

The U.S. and Canukistanian based mines will start turning out raw ore in about 3-5 years. They could expedite that if needed. The production facilities in other countries are still there, so it's not like we would have to refine it in the U.S., regardless of the wisdom of outsourcing it.

Personally, I'm much more worried about China's relitive monopoly on Tungsten.
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