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Health Care Bill Passes 219-210Follow

#1 Mar 21 2010 at 8:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smiley: smile
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#2 Mar 21 2010 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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We r watching zee C-Span.
#3 Mar 21 2010 at 8:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Great accomplishment by the American people showing what they really want. They sure like to point out how much this bill will cost us in 10 years but when compared to all the money we have spent in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is quite insignificant.


Cost of War in Iraq
713,201,406,939

Cost of War in Afghanistan
260,755,181,378

This bill will cost only 700 and something billion dollars in 10 years. You have spent 1 trillion dollars plus in these damn wars in LESS than 10 years. Kindly get the @#%^ out of here with that argument cause it's all I heard today.

Edited: Billion not millions my bad. Very big my bad haha.


Edited, Mar 21st 2010 11:29pm by Excenmille
#4 Mar 21 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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In before good ol' boy MM says the numbers are lies.
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#5 Mar 21 2010 at 8:56 PM Rating: Decent
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What Joph said.
#6 Mar 21 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Zomg death panels, or something...
#7 Mar 21 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
This bill will cost only 700 and something billion dollars in 10 years. You have spent 1 trillion dollars plus in these damn wars in LESS than 10 years. Kindly get the @#%^ out of here with that argument cause it's all I heard today.

Fixed.

Edited, Mar 21st 2010 11:02pm by Kastigir
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#8 Mar 21 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
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World ends, etc.

So long as I'm not mandated to be covered for abortions and mammograms, and my premiums don't skyrocket (any more than they already were), it's just par for the course.
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#9 Mar 21 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Props to Pelosi, that cagey ole bird, for rounding up the votes she needed to pass this bill. The Usual Suspect Pubbies wouldn't screech so much about her if she wasn't so effective.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#10 Mar 21 2010 at 9:28 PM Rating: Good
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For what reason will Varus have to go to the emergency room after hearing about this?
Attempted suicide :0 (0.0%)
Suffocation after mouth froth goes down the wrong way :8 (16.3%)
Misguided protest :3 (6.1%)
Hit on the eligible male nurses :38 (77.6%)
Total:49
#11 Mar 21 2010 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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woohoo, now I can have the government pay for all the hospital visits incurred by my lifestyle


because gays are sicker, right?
#12 Mar 21 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Sweetums wrote:
Poll Removed: No more than one per thread, please!


Quoted for pollage.

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#13 Mar 21 2010 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you :)
#14 Mar 21 2010 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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Saw this today but thought I'd wait for the bill to actually pass before posting it.
David Frum wrote:
Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:

(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.

(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.

So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson:

A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.

At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.

Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.

This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.

Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.

Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.

No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the “doughnut hole” and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?

We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.

There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother?

I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.

Sounds familiar to what I said after the Senate passed their Christmas Eve bill Smiley: wink2
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#15 Mar 21 2010 at 9:41 PM Rating: Good
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How come everyone that calls in Opposing the bill doesn't even give a specific answer when they guy asks what they don't like about the bill? How hard is that to answer... sheep. Sheep are baaaaaaaad.

I honestly think this will probably make a lot of people mad on the other side of the aisle until all those people are now covered under insurance and they can get their kids the kind of health care that they really need.

This is not a Democratic win or a Republican loss. This is a win for the American people as a whole. This benefits everyone and not just one side.

Edited, Mar 21st 2010 11:47pm by Excenmille
#16 Mar 21 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
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But...but...this was supposed to be Obama's Waterloo!

I suppose it would be poor sportsmanship to gloat, wouldn't it?

Grr...quoted Joph's article without even meaning to.

Edited, Mar 21st 2010 8:44pm by Ambrya
#17ThiefX, Posted: Mar 21 2010 at 9:59 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nov 2010 :-)
#18 Mar 21 2010 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
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ThiefX wrote:
Nov 2010 :-)
A Pyrrhic victory, to be sure.
#19 Mar 21 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThiefX wrote:
Nov 2010 :-)
successful legislation looks really good, especially when all the promised doomsday scenarios don't actually happen.

What's the GOP line going to be? They passed the bill and look, everything is... oh wait, the world didn't end. hmmm

Edited, Mar 21st 2010 11:12pm by Xsarus
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#20 Mar 21 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Jophiel wrote:
Saw this today but thought I'd wait for the bill to actually pass before posting it.
David Frum wrote:
Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.

[...]

So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.

Haha. While I don't dispute that there is validity to this, I find it funny that conservatives can now blame liberal media AND conservative media.
#21 Mar 21 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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ThiefX wrote:
Nov 2010 :-)

On Dec 2010, Dec 2011, Dec 2016 and Dec 2020, this bill will still be law.

No point in protecting a majority just to have them not do what you elected them for in the first place Smiley: smile
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#22ThiefX, Posted: Mar 21 2010 at 10:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hey can I ask you libs a question? Have any of you ever noticed that the only way that liberalism continues is by forcing itself on people? By making people dependent on it.
#23 Mar 21 2010 at 10:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThiefX wrote:
Hey can I ask you libs a question? Have any of you ever noticed that the only way that liberalism continues is by forcing itself on people?

No, never noticed that. Have you ever noticed that the way conservativism thrives is by sound-bites and misinformation? Probably not.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#24 Mar 21 2010 at 10:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Dependency is certainly a concern on a personal level for programs that purpose to help people. Simply creating a dependency is not the point of the programs and is certainly a possibility. I would disagree that it is a major part of why this sort of legislation is enacted and remains or disappears though.

Unless I'm mistaken, the disenfranchised, who tend to be the ones getting help, are not the ones voting, thus your "argument" is unconvincing.

Edited, Mar 21st 2010 11:23pm by Xsarus
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#25ThiefX, Posted: Mar 21 2010 at 10:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The reason I ask is because Obamacare that just passed as a whole the majority of the American people don't want and none of the Dems that voted for it will publicly admit it but they know they are gonna take a beating in the Nov 10 elections but yet they still voted for it.
#26 Mar 21 2010 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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Obamacare that just passed as a whole the majority of the American people don't want
The vast majority of Americans have no idea what's actually in the bill aside from the misinformation and soundbites that have been so prevalent. There seemed to be strong support for most if not all the components.

Now that the bill is in, it's going to be really hard to get all worked up about the sky not falling. Smiley: tongue

Edited, Mar 21st 2010 11:35pm by Xsarus
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