Almalieque wrote:
I would guess that the boy would be arguing that his lying daughter was lying. In any case, you painted a picture as if he just kicked down the door and said "Freeze, don't move". The boy moved and therefore shot. Every source said that there was an escalation to the shooting.
Except the source you linked in the OP, or the source that link links. In fact, not only do those sources not mention any escalation, but they very much support the "Freeze, don't move" scenario you're dismissing so quickly:
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He was told someone was in his 16-year-old daughter's bedroom and he grabbed his gun.
He reportedly found the teen in bed with his daughter and confronted him. His daughter apparently told him she did not know the boy.
The father said he told the teen not to move, but reportedly saw the teen reach for something, at which point police say the father opened fire. The teen did not have a gun. His daughter later confessed that she snuck her boyfriend, 17, into the house, the report said.
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The father, who was not identified, was notified by one of his children that there was someone in his 16-year-old daughter's room, the report said. He reportedly found his daughter in bed with the teen.
The confrontation occurred around 2:20 a.m. The father had a gun and asked the teen to identify himself, police said, according to the report. His daughter reportedly told her father that she did not know the teen and that the two were not in bed.
The father said he told the teen not to move, but reportedly saw the teen reach for something, at which point police say the father opened fire. The teen did not have a gun. His daughter later confessed that she did indeed know the teen, the report said.
Want to know what these both have in common?
1. The father did enter the room with his firearm (something you claimed wasn't correct, suggesting that they had a longer conversation and then he got his gun and shot the teen).
2. The father did tell him not to move.
These are completely consistent with what someone would do if they believed that the man they found in their daughters bedroom was a stranger who was potentially attempting to rape her.
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Most gun wielding rapists probably don't try to talk it out while hiding their gun, especially if the dad left and came back.
First off, he could have had a knife instead of a gun and still been a threat. Secondly, you're inventing this idea that the dad left and came back with the gun. That's directly contradicted by both of the stories.
And yeah, people who are armed in some way quite often conceal this fact. Doubly so when there someone else who is armed and pointing that weapon at them. If some guy has a gun hidden in his pocket, and you burst into the room and point a gun at him and demand to know who he is and what he's doing in your house, he's going to wait until he can get an opportunity to pull his gun out and shoot you. And that's absolutely going to involve him spinning any BS story he can in order to get you to point the gun somewhere else just long enough for him to get his out and shoot you.
And that guy claiming that he's your daughters boyfriend while she's insisting she doesn't know him at all might be exactly what some would be rapist would claim in order to get you to drop your guard. Cause maybe you wont believe your daughter. Maybe he can put just enough doubt into your mind about the innocence of your daughter that you'll turn and start questioning her, and maybe take your eyes off him
just long enough.
Seriously. If the guy had been a rapist, who had just entered the girls room, and had just put a knife to her throat and told her to be quiet, or he'll kill her, and the father bursts in with a gun right at that moment, what do you think he'd say? You think he'd admit what he was doing? Or do you think he'd lie?
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The dad went to the hospital for a panic attack. If it were THAT guy in the daughter's bedroom, then the father would have more justification for his actions. The guy is old and fat and at best prowling on under aged girls. Given that the boy actually looked like a boy takes away from the notion that he was sexually assaulting his daughter. That's nothing typical that boys do at 2 am in a full house.
Rapists come in all sizes and shapes. I was just countering the idea that the boy was a "child". I saw the picture and thought it was odd that the person was on a stretcher that looked to be being put into an ambulance and thought that was strange. But then I read the article and realized that while it said he was "fatally shot", it didn't say he died right away, so I thought maybe they treated him for the gunshot wound and he later died. I briefly considered that it was the father, but the article accompanying the photo didn't mention the father requiring any treatment, and the whole "bags wrapped on his hands" thing was strange. I suppose maybe it's sop or something. Need to verify that he fired the gun and not the girl for example? Dunno.
In any case, it's not super relevant to the issue. The man in the room not being a big guy doesn't make him any less a potential rapist.
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Gbaji wrote:
Except for finding a man in his daughters bedroom and his daughter telling him she didn't know who he was? Unless he's claiming to be the tooth fairy or something, that sorta leaves one reason for him being there.
Read above. Seeing a teenage boy in your teenage daughter's room doesn't mean rape/assault, especially if your daughter has absolutely no sign of distraught or relief that you arrived. Again, if you have to ASK the daughter if she knows him, then she wasn't in a state of mind of being assaulted nor did it appear that she was. Else, he wouldn't have to ask.
Again though, you're injecting your own assumptions into the events. Where did you read that the daughter showed no sign of being distraught? You're making up "facts" to support your position.
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Gbaji wrote:
Other than her telling her father that she didn't know the man in her bedroom at 2AM. You do get that it's not unheard of for rapists to sneak into the bedrooms of women late at night while they're asleep and rape them, right?
1. You do realize that most rapes don't occur that way?
So? Some do. You honestly think the father should stop and assume his daughter must be lying about this guy in her room being a stranger because of crime statistics? Um... And remember that he's not going to know the age of the person in his daughters room, so let's stop assuming that "rapes by 17 year olds are rare" is even remotely a reasonable argument to make.
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After not hearing any crying, shouting, requesting for help or any attempt to run away or show any sign of relief that I was there, I would assume that she was lying, given the age of the boy, lack of a weapon or any sign of a struggle. Plus, he wasn't told that a rapist came in from the room, he was told that someone was in the room.
Huh? Again, how do you know she didn't do those things? How do you know her immediate reaction to your bursting into the room was to run up to you and start screaming about how she doesn't know this strange man in her bedroom? You don't know. The news articles don't say. Don't assume information that isn't actually written down.
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Gbaji wrote:
I wouldn't. Having the legal right to do something doesn't mean you must do that thing.
Which is exactly my point.
So your point was to admit that I was 100% correct when I said he had a legal right to shoot the teen? Um... great!
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Gbaji wrote:
If they had someone stay over
I didn't say anything about staying over.[/quote]
Then what the hell are they doing in my house at 2AM, when everyone is presumably asleep? Your nutty scenarios don't make any sense at all. How the hell is it possible for me to wake up in the middle of the night, hear noises in my living room, go and investigate and find only a person I have never met before, with no clue who that person is, how they got into my living room, or what they're doing there unless that person is an intruder? If I wake up and hear sounds in the living room, and my roommates are up watching TV or playing poker and there's
also someone I don't know, there, I'm not going to shoot that person because my roommates are right there with the person. Unless, of course, when I walk into the living room, all of my roommates jump up and proclaim that they don't know this person in the room with them, and thank god that I woke up and have my gun so we can deal with this stranger in our home.
In that case, if that person now makes some sudden move, I'm going to shoot him. Want to know why? Because by telling me that they don't know the person my assumption is that they wouldn't allow him to be in the house at all unless he was armed in some way and threatened them if they didn't let him watch TV or play poker with them, or whatever. Point being that given the assumed lack of loud screaming coming from the bedroom, when the daughter told her father she didn't know the man, she was also more or less saying "he's armed and threatened me if I screamed". So yeah. That's going to put the father on high alert.
Now maybe *you* would first assume your daughter was lying to you, but I think most parents would err on the side of protecting their family. Which is what this guy did.