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Gilselling Teleporters Pasco and NozokimiFollow
Speaking of gilsellers, check down in Kuftal Tunnel....you'll see what i mean....NOTHING BUT THEM ALL OVER THE PLACE..not gonna bust out names tho, but you know who you are -_-
Its a kind of 'Mcarthyism' I suppose in some respects
Scholar
29 posts
i haven't seen pasco OR nozokimi in LJ for two days. maybe they teleported enough people to the wrong crag and word has spread that they're crap. or maybe SE DID do something about them. or maybe they're just normal players and the above posts are true and we're being mcarthyist witch-burning ********. beats me.
I was thinking how SE could possibly stop gil selling, or at least limit it. It is obvious that most of the 24/7 gil sellers do it for cash to make a living, and mainly occurs in countries with a crappy economy, or even no economy (communism). If SE simply banned FF from countries with a poor economy, then there wouldnt be desperate people with desperate methods. I know that this would not cut down ALL gil sellers, but it seems like it would reduce the amount rude gil sellers.
This is a simple solution ignoring all morals and politics. However if you lived in a country that got banned cause that country had a crap economy, it would be pouring vinegar on their wounds.
-Just a thought.
As for bots, remember, how would anyone be able to prove this?
Not to mention, botting or not, you still have to pay SE for access. What do you think is more important to SE?
This is a simple solution ignoring all morals and politics. However if you lived in a country that got banned cause that country had a crap economy, it would be pouring vinegar on their wounds.
-Just a thought.
As for bots, remember, how would anyone be able to prove this?
Not to mention, botting or not, you still have to pay SE for access. What do you think is more important to SE?
Quote:
If SE simply banned FF from countries with a poor economy, then there wouldnt be desperate people with desperate methods. I know that this would not cut down ALL gil sellers, but it seems like it would reduce the amount rude gil sellers.
FFXI Is not available for sale in China. China however (along with Indonesia and oddly Ukraine) leads the world in pirated software and illegal software trade.
So technically FFXI IS already banned in China..where the majority of Gil sellers seem to reside. The reality is the internet is global, and if the Chinese government (who control the Chineses' access to the internet by virtue of a state ISP being the only one you can get)can't (wont?) stop it as a threat to their communist power base, what can Square do?
Scholar
29 posts
SE won't do anything about it unless there is a substantial threat to thier own income. they could very easily do something about it, but the number of paying accounts they would have to ban would probably be more than the number of accounts players would cancel because of the gilsellers. therefore they would literally have to lose hundreds, maybe thousands of accounts before they would put a stop to gilselling. the only thing we can do to stop the gilsellers is not BUY gil. they will never stop while there's a market for what they're selling.
In an earlier post, someone suggested that communism is "no economy." Now I'm a flag-waving American Democract myself, so don't pin the "commie" label on me for this, but calling communism "no economy" is just plain ignorant. Communism is the logical EXTREME of an economy, where government control is absolute and free enterprise is forbidden. Further, there are no pure communist nations left in the world. Cuba is mixed communist/capitalist and (taking the example supplied in that post), China especially marks out "Special Economic Zones" - essentially capitalist cities in the middle of communist China. These zones are notably Shanghai, Beijing, and Hong Kong. Further, look at America's trade deficit - if the vast majority of Chinese are poor, China itself is not poor. Finally, the urban poor in China does not account for most of the impoverished Chinese (most of China's population and its poor population is rural), and Chinese with access to computers would most likely be in large cities, Special Economic Zones, not communist, and probably about as well off as you are, relatively speaking.
Don't try to pin gilselling on some oustide problem like "weak economy," it's a fact of the game. Money takes a lot of time to make. As for me, a college kid, I don't have the time to make a whole bunch of game money, so I have bought gil once and would consider it again. On the flip side, if I ever found myself at a high enough level where I could make gil easily (especially since I'm a BST) I'd sell that gil and buy a real-life pizza for myself. To pin the cause of gilselling on "weak economies" is just plain ignorant.
Don't try to pin gilselling on some oustide problem like "weak economy," it's a fact of the game. Money takes a lot of time to make. As for me, a college kid, I don't have the time to make a whole bunch of game money, so I have bought gil once and would consider it again. On the flip side, if I ever found myself at a high enough level where I could make gil easily (especially since I'm a BST) I'd sell that gil and buy a real-life pizza for myself. To pin the cause of gilselling on "weak economies" is just plain ignorant.
Elias: I believe your post was directed to me, but I do not understand why you didn't simply use my name. Perhaps it was too much for you to scrool down and look it up...
I must confess I personally do not care for history or politics. Actually to be honest, it was the one class I hated most in high school, and I am glad for my major i will have nothing to do with it. On a personal level, i think History as a subject, ranks second last of importance, right above philosophy. This is all besides the point.
I said that communism is not an economy, which trust me, I did not originate this statement. The reason I used it was due to the fact that in communism, items, whatever they may be, are not produced out of peoples need, but rather to what the govenment says peoples needs are. For this reason I said that communism is without economy, and I am sure i do not stand alone in saying this. But as for calling me ignorant, I see you are a nice guy/ girl.
You also assumed (there is a very opportune saying for those who assume) that I blamed gil selling on weak economies in the world. If you, or anyone else, honestly thought that this was my conjecture, rather than calling you ignorant!! I will appologize for not making myself clear. But anyone who takes a brief look at was is going on, can see that most of the supposed gil sellers who are made infamous on these message boards appear to be from China! Hence i mentioned that nation.
Also, if you didn't ignore most of my other posts on the gil selling issue (aka were not being ignorant), you would see that i personally do not carry any qualm with gil sellers or gil buyers, but only rude unfriendly players. To further generalize it, lets say rude unfriendly people. That applies to people who post on these message boards trying to insult another!
Elias, I hereby give you the award for being the first person on this thread to resort to an insult, simply because you do not agree with someone. [Congratulations]
To the rest of you, thank you for keeping the boards clean! Ragnarok posts have been some of the cleanest I have seen on this site. It is nice to know we have such great people on our server.
I must confess I personally do not care for history or politics. Actually to be honest, it was the one class I hated most in high school, and I am glad for my major i will have nothing to do with it. On a personal level, i think History as a subject, ranks second last of importance, right above philosophy. This is all besides the point.
I said that communism is not an economy, which trust me, I did not originate this statement. The reason I used it was due to the fact that in communism, items, whatever they may be, are not produced out of peoples need, but rather to what the govenment says peoples needs are. For this reason I said that communism is without economy, and I am sure i do not stand alone in saying this. But as for calling me ignorant, I see you are a nice guy/ girl.
You also assumed (there is a very opportune saying for those who assume) that I blamed gil selling on weak economies in the world. If you, or anyone else, honestly thought that this was my conjecture, rather than calling you ignorant!! I will appologize for not making myself clear. But anyone who takes a brief look at was is going on, can see that most of the supposed gil sellers who are made infamous on these message boards appear to be from China! Hence i mentioned that nation.
Also, if you didn't ignore most of my other posts on the gil selling issue (aka were not being ignorant), you would see that i personally do not carry any qualm with gil sellers or gil buyers, but only rude unfriendly players. To further generalize it, lets say rude unfriendly people. That applies to people who post on these message boards trying to insult another!
Elias, I hereby give you the award for being the first person on this thread to resort to an insult, simply because you do not agree with someone. [Congratulations]
To the rest of you, thank you for keeping the boards clean! Ragnarok posts have been some of the cleanest I have seen on this site. It is nice to know we have such great people on our server.
I posted this on another thread, but just in case you missed it:
Pasco was running around La Theine the other day with a party of people from different linkshells and even threw a Cure II out at me while I was on chocobo. It was a bizarre situation to see a gil-seller in, so can someone explain to me why he was there, why he cured a passerby on chocobo, who he was with, and if you can still prove he is a gil-seller?
Pasco was running around La Theine the other day with a party of people from different linkshells and even threw a Cure II out at me while I was on chocobo. It was a bizarre situation to see a gil-seller in, so can someone explain to me why he was there, why he cured a passerby on chocobo, who he was with, and if you can still prove he is a gil-seller?
Awww, now I feel bad :). If I had scrolled up I guess I would have seen that you and I don't disagree so much, and I'm sorry for resorting to flaming you. I was tired and angry, and hope you won't hold it against me in Ragnarok or on these boards. It seemed like you were stereotyping all Chinese people as "poor," which really set me off, but I think I overreacted. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way *sheepish grin*
Hahaha, sorry Airamis I didn't realize you posted my encounter with Pasco up there. I gotta stop skimming these posts, half the time you beat me to whatever I was going to say. :P I keep thinking one of these days Pasco is giong to show up on these boards and see his name all over the place and freak out and put us all in our places. But then again, a certain hyper taru you and I know who likes to shout in Lower Jeuno "Support the gil sellers, they have children to feed!" gets free teleports from him. So go figure.
Queenie I read your post in the other thread as well. And have to ask... what would a Whm of high enough level to be doing teleports be doing partying there? No reason I can think of... Possibly picking up people to give them a port somewhere? But I honestly can't think of any other reason that someone that high of a level would be there.
I boycott Pasco and Nozokimi. I'll shout in Jeuno for an honest WHM, and usually will get one real quick.
About the NM issue with items being rare/ex. No. Just no. Do you think it's feasible for me to convince a HNM linkshell to kill Kirin or another crazy mob, and let me keep the Damascus Ingot? And then, from there, raise my smithing skill to 100 just so I could synth it into a haubergeon? I think not. I camp Hoo Mjuu the Torrent, not every day, but occasionally for 3-4 pops. This is my primary means of income, and I sell the items I have farmed there during downtimes for a nice tidy profit.
I have been accused of voke botting Hoo, and I did not realize this due to the fact that I am spamming my macro at a very fast rate. I've had a GM summoned, to which I /wave'd and talked to. I'm sure whoever called the GM felt stupid, I could tell the GM felt awkward as well.
About the NM issue with items being rare/ex. No. Just no. Do you think it's feasible for me to convince a HNM linkshell to kill Kirin or another crazy mob, and let me keep the Damascus Ingot? And then, from there, raise my smithing skill to 100 just so I could synth it into a haubergeon? I think not. I camp Hoo Mjuu the Torrent, not every day, but occasionally for 3-4 pops. This is my primary means of income, and I sell the items I have farmed there during downtimes for a nice tidy profit.
I have been accused of voke botting Hoo, and I did not realize this due to the fact that I am spamming my macro at a very fast rate. I've had a GM summoned, to which I /wave'd and talked to. I'm sure whoever called the GM felt stupid, I could tell the GM felt awkward as well.
Really, while I don't like using Nozokimi because he/she waits for a full party of six before teleporting, I really didn't mind using Pasco. When I told him I was in a hurry, he obliged me, even though he was only half full, to begin teleporting. He has never been anything but courteous to me. I'm not saying that I like the idea of anyone gil-selling, but some of you must admit it's gotten out of hand how much the community ostrocizes and makes nasty jokes about them. When a whm's teleport message is "Don't take teleports from the Gil-sellers Pasco and Nozokimi; take it from honest whms instead!" there's something wrong. Its plain rude and I would rather take a teleport from Pasco than a rather immature, smug whm with a superiority complex.
Yes, they're gil-sellers, they suck, blah blah, but there are so many other people that have found ways to circumvent the rules of the game as well that we don't go pointing our fingers at. Voke-bots, Fish-bots, etc. Also consider this: Pasco and Nozokimi only supply the gil, they only supply a product to an existing demand; they aren't FORCING people to buy. Rather, I find it a little strange that while everyone hates gil-sellers, no one has screamed hate messages against gil-buyers. Why is that?
This thread is rather rude in that it singles out these two individuals; there are more gil-sellers out there and even MORE gil-buyers. Make a general thread concerning the issue but lets not point fingers at individual people when we know that there are way more people culpable than just two individuals that just happen to be in a rather noticeable place in the gil-selling industry (if really they are). If we're going to start a witch hunt, might as well go down to gusgen mines and take out a little black pad to take note how long some of the miners stay in there and how often they go to mine. Or how long fishers can cast over and over and over again without seeming to stop. Or why don't we go and see who's jacking up the prices on AH and of course if they're making it more expensive they MUST be gil-sellers ><
Just show a little respect guys...its getting out of hand .
Yes, they're gil-sellers, they suck, blah blah, but there are so many other people that have found ways to circumvent the rules of the game as well that we don't go pointing our fingers at. Voke-bots, Fish-bots, etc. Also consider this: Pasco and Nozokimi only supply the gil, they only supply a product to an existing demand; they aren't FORCING people to buy. Rather, I find it a little strange that while everyone hates gil-sellers, no one has screamed hate messages against gil-buyers. Why is that?
This thread is rather rude in that it singles out these two individuals; there are more gil-sellers out there and even MORE gil-buyers. Make a general thread concerning the issue but lets not point fingers at individual people when we know that there are way more people culpable than just two individuals that just happen to be in a rather noticeable place in the gil-selling industry (if really they are). If we're going to start a witch hunt, might as well go down to gusgen mines and take out a little black pad to take note how long some of the miners stay in there and how often they go to mine. Or how long fishers can cast over and over and over again without seeming to stop. Or why don't we go and see who's jacking up the prices on AH and of course if they're making it more expensive they MUST be gil-sellers ><
Just show a little respect guys...its getting out of hand .
After running into another person with a name I can't pronounce or remember while I was farming who was obviously trying to get me out of the area because of a nm pop (not saying this person was a gil seller), I have to say the teleporters are a little less annoying then the other tactics. At least they are providing a service to other players. Not trying to train beastman on someone who is farming to afford their partying supplies just so there is no chance the person farming gets to a nm first when it pops. A player who does not want to deal with them has the option of not, where as with some of the other gil sellers the tactics can really interfere with your enjoyment of the game.
And to who brought up the fish botters, imo that does just as much "damage" to the economy as the gil sellers. Remember the really high price of light crystals awhile back? You had to feel bad for players who needed them for gardening or other crafts.
But the truth is, unlike in real life, if this economy goes out of whack for a few weeks, we aren't going to go without food or shelter. So what, we don't get that awesome piece of armor or weapon for a few weeks while it settles?
And to who brought up the fish botters, imo that does just as much "damage" to the economy as the gil sellers. Remember the really high price of light crystals awhile back? You had to feel bad for players who needed them for gardening or other crafts.
But the truth is, unlike in real life, if this economy goes out of whack for a few weeks, we aren't going to go without food or shelter. So what, we don't get that awesome piece of armor or weapon for a few weeks while it settles?
sorry i didnt mean to sound like that. i wasnt tryin to start a witch-hunt i was jus speaking my mind. honestly when pasco teleported me he was very curtious towards me. but the way i see it is that there are lots of whms that need gil and teleporting might be the only way that they can make it. so i find it unfair that these whms never get the oppurtunity to make gil because pasco and nozokimi are always there. and these whms are gonna be the same whms that i rely on to start a party with me. if pasco was jus teleporting like crazy so that he could afford every single thing that he needs to level 75 then i would have no problem with it. i was simply trying to say that if other people agreed that there gil would be better off going to other whms then they should'nt support pasco and nozokimi. but if u disagree then by all means get teleports from them, because if i saw no other whm around then id be happy to take a teleport from them cause then they wouldnt be taking business from other whms. see what im saying? and im sorry if i seem like im singling them out but those are the only names i kno o.O
Well...I guess my question would be to your response: how are the fact that Pasco and Nozokimi there 24/7...precluding any other whm from earning money in the teleport business? Basically, we're talking about added competition. Even if Pasco and Nozokimi were not there, there could be potentially five whms starting teleport-services and none of the five would get as much business when they're shouting teleports together. They don't offer a better "teleport" than other whms, they can't coerce people into using their services, and they can't customer steal. So basically the fastest whm gets to the customer first.
Basically the only way a whm can "NOT" make it is if he or she is frustrated by the competition and just quit because "its not worth it". If they do that, its not only because Pasco and Nozokimi are there, but because there are two three four other whms also there. Even if there were three people at a time doing teleport services (pasco, nozokimi, and one other) they would all recieve about the same cut of the pie; we can think of it another way as Pasco and Nozokimi are also recieving competition from other whms doing teleport services which cut into THEIR revenues. Would it be right if they suddenly complained that other whms where opening teles on THEIR territory? We would all probably laugh our heads off.
Competition is a big part of ragnarok -_- look at the economy for instance and you'll see that the price of demon arrows, which used to be 9.5k have dropped to 7.8k because so many people are doing it. The fact that Pasco and Nozokimi are there 24/7, as many people call it, just means that they're better at it. But unless I'm a whm and sit my *** down on Lower Jeuno and they physically (impossible?) or verbally harass me out, they are not "stopping" me from making a profit; they're giving me competition.
It would be like me accusing all the other woodworkers of "CUTTING INTO MY RACKET DAMNIT AND UNDERCUTTING MY PRICES!!! what are they THINKING??? THEY SHOULD ALL GO INTO ANOTHER CRAFT!! GEEZ" *cough* ^^; and of course i DON'T think like that (everyone on the thread goes ".....yeah...riiiiiiggght...") But you get my idea. Even if there are accusations that Nozo/Pas (yes i getting lazy -_-) are constantly spamming advertisements and thats how it hurts the other whms' business...I have a question:
How many teleporting whms in Lower Jeuno have you seen....NOT spamming advertisements? -_-
Basically the only way a whm can "NOT" make it is if he or she is frustrated by the competition and just quit because "its not worth it". If they do that, its not only because Pasco and Nozokimi are there, but because there are two three four other whms also there. Even if there were three people at a time doing teleport services (pasco, nozokimi, and one other) they would all recieve about the same cut of the pie; we can think of it another way as Pasco and Nozokimi are also recieving competition from other whms doing teleport services which cut into THEIR revenues. Would it be right if they suddenly complained that other whms where opening teles on THEIR territory? We would all probably laugh our heads off.
Competition is a big part of ragnarok -_- look at the economy for instance and you'll see that the price of demon arrows, which used to be 9.5k have dropped to 7.8k because so many people are doing it. The fact that Pasco and Nozokimi are there 24/7, as many people call it, just means that they're better at it. But unless I'm a whm and sit my *** down on Lower Jeuno and they physically (impossible?) or verbally harass me out, they are not "stopping" me from making a profit; they're giving me competition.
It would be like me accusing all the other woodworkers of "CUTTING INTO MY RACKET DAMNIT AND UNDERCUTTING MY PRICES!!! what are they THINKING??? THEY SHOULD ALL GO INTO ANOTHER CRAFT!! GEEZ" *cough* ^^; and of course i DON'T think like that (everyone on the thread goes ".....yeah...riiiiiiggght...") But you get my idea. Even if there are accusations that Nozo/Pas (yes i getting lazy -_-) are constantly spamming advertisements and thats how it hurts the other whms' business...I have a question:
How many teleporting whms in Lower Jeuno have you seen....NOT spamming advertisements? -_-
sigh * yes i understand it is competition but what i am saying is this. They are not using the gil to buy magic to join my party. They are selling it, so instead of the whms that actually level with a party getting gil only pasco and nozo get the gil and you will less than likely ever have them leveling wit you. I would perfer to give my own gil to a whm that will party with me and help me gain levels, however if there are no other whms then i wouldnt mind getting a teleport from pasco. True everyone is still gettin a cut of the profit from teleporting but suppose its a slow day in jeuno and not too many people want a teleport and pasco and nozo are jumping all over the few who need it? then the whms who need the gil for magics get fustrated and start new jobs >.< no whms = no good. the whm hardly have any other means of gil making so i rather help them out in the one area where they will make garunteed gil. get my point? if i didnt answer your question rephrase it and ill try to answer it better.
^^;;; well the assumption that every mage ever teleporting is only going to buy magic for their parties is rather a huge one to make, but I understand what you're getting at. I guess we have a fundamental difference in the way we think then; =/ basically I give people money for their services and once it's their's, its theirs. For example, I don't go to AH to buy scrolls/gear/food thinking that if I buy it from them, they'll have more money to buy stuff to level with and we'll have more awesome people out there. I go thinking: "damn...I really need this stupid gear" with maybe a little bit of "please be cheap please please please please...?" thrown in with it. (yes -.- i'm a miser. and proud of it!)
I understand and even respect your thinking in that you ask for teleport services hoping that the money you give them will help them finance their job, but I guess I'm also asking you to think about what you're doing when you post threads like this.
1. now nozokimi and pasco's rep is completely smeared through hell and back in Ragnarok when they aren't the only gil-sellers out there.
2. (i'm not sure about this) but no one on the thread has posted that they know for sure that nozokimi and pasco are gil-sellers, and where they got this information from other than rumors.
3. we set the stage for a lot more...i guess the word would be hate?...in Ragnarok, and that's the sad part I guess. Suddenly anyone that crafts too much, that camps too much, fishes too much, or dances naked through jeuno screaming "I WILL PANIC FOR 50 GIL!" too much are immediately labeled gil-sellers (ok -.- MAYBE not the last one). For example, my craft is 2x as high as my main job; i'm ALWAYS at Sandy (stop by! say hi!) crafting and very rarely on the big bad streets killing stuff. Does this make me a gil-seller? no. this simply makes me masochistic and poor. But not a gil-seller.
basically, it sets the stage for stereotyping and like I said, witch-hunting, which I totally understand was not your intention. But these are the facts: things are going in this direction so much that every dip in the economy or flux in the prices is immediately because of gil-sellers.
It is understandable that you would prefer to use other WHM's businesses other than Nozo/pas's. That's your perogative and even to some degree, a responsibility as you see it. But I think it may not be so much to have singled out these two people when they're just a product of a general rule in any game: where there's a way to cheat, people will. They don't provide the incentive, just the means.
I understand and even respect your thinking in that you ask for teleport services hoping that the money you give them will help them finance their job, but I guess I'm also asking you to think about what you're doing when you post threads like this.
1. now nozokimi and pasco's rep is completely smeared through hell and back in Ragnarok when they aren't the only gil-sellers out there.
2. (i'm not sure about this) but no one on the thread has posted that they know for sure that nozokimi and pasco are gil-sellers, and where they got this information from other than rumors.
3. we set the stage for a lot more...i guess the word would be hate?...in Ragnarok, and that's the sad part I guess. Suddenly anyone that crafts too much, that camps too much, fishes too much, or dances naked through jeuno screaming "I WILL PANIC FOR 50 GIL!" too much are immediately labeled gil-sellers (ok -.- MAYBE not the last one). For example, my craft is 2x as high as my main job; i'm ALWAYS at Sandy (stop by! say hi!) crafting and very rarely on the big bad streets killing stuff. Does this make me a gil-seller? no. this simply makes me masochistic and poor. But not a gil-seller.
basically, it sets the stage for stereotyping and like I said, witch-hunting, which I totally understand was not your intention. But these are the facts: things are going in this direction so much that every dip in the economy or flux in the prices is immediately because of gil-sellers.
It is understandable that you would prefer to use other WHM's businesses other than Nozo/pas's. That's your perogative and even to some degree, a responsibility as you see it. But I think it may not be so much to have singled out these two people when they're just a product of a general rule in any game: where there's a way to cheat, people will. They don't provide the incentive, just the means.
I think the sad part is the Jueno is considered the only good place to make gil doing teleports. I know everytime I'm in a starter city there are always enough of people looking for one that it would be worthwhile for someone to set up camp there the days Jueno is slow and there is too much competition. I can understand not doing this all of the time, but I don't understand why it's not a more reasonable alternative to some.
Good point Tif.
Anyone but me ever get "stuck" in Windy with not a Tele in sight? Or Sandy? Bastok usually isn't TOO bad, at least not now that there are higher level missions to be had in the Promathia areas.
Why not move out into the suburbs and quit competing with Starbucks in the big city? People out there drink coffee too ya know.... :)
Anyone but me ever get "stuck" in Windy with not a Tele in sight? Or Sandy? Bastok usually isn't TOO bad, at least not now that there are higher level missions to be had in the Promathia areas.
Why not move out into the suburbs and quit competing with Starbucks in the big city? People out there drink coffee too ya know.... :)
I know a lot of lower levels who people working on alternate jobs who would kill to be able to easily get a teleport in Windy for stuff like dunes experience parties. Heck, I know people in the dunes who would kill to get back to Windy or their starter city without chancing the goblins or the boat ride back. And most are willing to pay for a teleport to a safer area rather then chancing their exp to get there or waiting for a higher level friend to get free to come escort them. And I know those of us who do the escorting a lot would kill for this to be an alternative on days where we want to do our own thing or in the middle of something and hate telling our friends no.
good point^^. someone pleaaase go to san'doria -_- its hell trying to get out of bagpipe land ><
i slapped Nozokimi a few times... ^^
and i never use them
and i never use them
yea i used to get stuck in windy all the time but then i realized a simple solution that would take less than a week. raise whm to lvl 8 then switch to blm, lvl your blm to lvl 17 and you have an instant warp. always leave your hp in jeuno and you will never need a teleport outside of jeuno. or you could just buy warp cudgels at about 20k a piece. plz dont yell at me and tell me this is not pheasible and give me a whole bunch of reasons why this wont work>.< cause its jus a suggestion
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