I dont remember things being this bad last October when I started this game for the first time. Recently I revisited ways to maximize my white mage's MP (being a hume it seems like I have to push my limits for some of the rougher battles which leaves the pt exposed to any sort of mishap that may occur) I realized that subbing Summoner would probably be my best bet since I never use black mage spells anyway (with the exception of war) I start the trek leveling summoner and whiz right through the first 10 levels and decide to head off to, yep you guessed it, good old Valkrum Dunes.
I have come to several realizations about a good portion of the lower level crowd... White Mages are a non existant job, Summoners and Red Mages are both considered healers and should be treated as such(including asking RDMs not to debuff and asking SMNs not to summon), and finally and the subject of this post... Tanks that DO NOT LIKE TO TANK. Over the last 10 days or so I have gone through 10-19 in the dunes and I have heard so many warriors say things like this
"I was power leveled to lvl 15 so I dont really know what Im doing can you guys teach me?"
"Yeah I guess I can provoke but I died the last time I did that"
"I dont really main tank I just kinda back up tank"
"I think we should get a Ninja to tank" (nothing against ninja tanks i.e. Silverboy, Mutiny youre the best Ive had in the dunes)
"DONT TELL ME TO PROVOKE I KNOW HOW TO F**KIN PROVOKE" "Then why arent you doing it?" "F**K YOU GUYS"
One Japanese fellow flat out refused to provoke, he was subbing red mage and our Monk was provoking his butt off but he would not do it... we used the translator asked him to provoke several times he didnt say anything... so using the translator we made it simple for him (No)(Provoke) (No)(Party) he left.
The best experiences I have had were with a monk named Lokiswrath I think and 2 ninjas named Mutiny and Silverboy. They held aggro well knew their business and went about it smartly.
To all of us higher level players really anyone 30 and up. I know we have friends that play and we think we are doing them this great favor power leveling them through those first 10-12 lvls... the ones that suck cause youre solo. What we are really doing is breeding a generation of players that have no idea what in the HELL they are doing. We need to let these guys learn how to play their role and then work themselves into groups knowing what their limitations and abilities are. We are hurting those players... and we are hurting new players who have to party with these morons for a good long time. Now I am in no way implying that every low level tank is crap... I am in no way implying that all new players suck... but most of the players who the parties I have been in have used power levels as a reason why they dont know what they are doing. I myself have power leveled a friend to the point where I could group with him with my BLM. He learned the game very quickly though so I lucked out. I dont know what else to say besides let players group alone for the first 20 levels let them learn to play the game first solo then as a party we will all be doing ourselves a favor in the long run.
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one one hand, i can see where you're coming from, on the other, I can't really agree with you.
I'm a RDM that just recently hit lv12, and I just learned a few days ago that you can make macros to cast spells and such... I still have yet to learn how to do this, mainly because nobody has taken the time to go over it with me. No, i didn't read the instruction booklet, because for now i'm playing on a friend's account. though i will be readin g over it for the next few days.
It seems to me that people seem to think that just because someone's a RDM or WHM or WAR that they automatically know how to do their "job" within a party. I can honestly state that people need to get out of the mindset that anyone who has a certain job knows what they are doing. I can understand that people who have been PLed to 15 or whatnot may not knwo what they are doing. I was PLed to 11, and my healing magic skill sucks **** because of it. >_< For now, i'm refusing PL help that way i can learn more about what i should be doing...
Granted, when i get my own account, i'll have to start over (Curse SE for not allowing character transferring), but the idea is that i'll know enough to be able to manage myself much better at lower levels.
I've only been tothe dune once, and it was a rather sorry affair. full pty, consisting of a WHM/RDM, 2 WARs, a BLM a THF, and me with my RDM. Levels ranged from 15-11, with the WHM/RDM being the top level. he also seemed to know what he was doing. Nobody knew what we were goign after, but we ende dup on siren's beach, fighting a snipper. >_< now, I don't knwo about anyone else... but that snipper was "incredibly tough" to me, and it was a very long fight. by the time we had killed it (the BLM had to rest mid-fight 'cause she was out of MP, i did too >_<) we had lost both WARs. It was a bit of a mess. I would have stuck around, but at that point i needed sleep (it was 4am)...
I wasn't discouraged by that event, it simply made me realize that i need to learn what my position in a party is... of course, the only way to do this is to gather a group that closer to my lvl and fight some things that can't kill us in two hits.
I'm a RDM that just recently hit lv12, and I just learned a few days ago that you can make macros to cast spells and such... I still have yet to learn how to do this, mainly because nobody has taken the time to go over it with me. No, i didn't read the instruction booklet, because for now i'm playing on a friend's account. though i will be readin g over it for the next few days.
It seems to me that people seem to think that just because someone's a RDM or WHM or WAR that they automatically know how to do their "job" within a party. I can honestly state that people need to get out of the mindset that anyone who has a certain job knows what they are doing. I can understand that people who have been PLed to 15 or whatnot may not knwo what they are doing. I was PLed to 11, and my healing magic skill sucks **** because of it. >_< For now, i'm refusing PL help that way i can learn more about what i should be doing...
Granted, when i get my own account, i'll have to start over (Curse SE for not allowing character transferring), but the idea is that i'll know enough to be able to manage myself much better at lower levels.
I've only been tothe dune once, and it was a rather sorry affair. full pty, consisting of a WHM/RDM, 2 WARs, a BLM a THF, and me with my RDM. Levels ranged from 15-11, with the WHM/RDM being the top level. he also seemed to know what he was doing. Nobody knew what we were goign after, but we ende dup on siren's beach, fighting a snipper. >_< now, I don't knwo about anyone else... but that snipper was "incredibly tough" to me, and it was a very long fight. by the time we had killed it (the BLM had to rest mid-fight 'cause she was out of MP, i did too >_<) we had lost both WARs. It was a bit of a mess. I would have stuck around, but at that point i needed sleep (it was 4am)...
I wasn't discouraged by that event, it simply made me realize that i need to learn what my position in a party is... of course, the only way to do this is to gather a group that closer to my lvl and fight some things that can't kill us in two hits.
ewww your lvl range was 15-11? O.O you dont really want to go over a 2 lvl difference, you might be able to deal with 3 lvl difference but it's way better if you stick to 2 and under. Hey if you need someone to help you learn a little about the game feel free to send kloe a /tell in game :) I will try to explain things to you so you can understand a little more about partying and such. Im serious! lol. don't be afraid to ask me :P
Scholar
29 posts
Yeah, I've seen the newbs in action several times, and it's gonna get worse for the next few weeks when the Europien players start their leveling in the dunes. What really bugs me is that nobody seems to ask for help, and when they finally do, they're usually laughed at or flamed until they give up.
Everyone needs to spread the word about the Mentoring program a bit more, since that's what the tag is supposed to represent: new player help! (to you guys who just have the mentor tag on 'cause it's pretty, stop it) I like to help people out, and do have my mentor flag up most of the time. It's not that I know EVERYTHING about the game, I just know more than a newb has experienced.
***NOTE*** Mentors are not banks!
Everyone needs to spread the word about the Mentoring program a bit more, since that's what the tag is supposed to represent: new player help! (to you guys who just have the mentor tag on 'cause it's pretty, stop it) I like to help people out, and do have my mentor flag up most of the time. It's not that I know EVERYTHING about the game, I just know more than a newb has experienced.
***NOTE*** Mentors are not banks!
I never meant to imply that people should automatically know what to do when they join a party... by the exact contrary I think that it takes some learning. What I didnt specify was that most of my problems were really occuring at lvl 15 and later and by that time you have been partying for around 5 or 6 levels and you should really know what you are doing by then. Also you mention Red Mages, and White Mages. Well when we could find a white mage they were normally pretty good (you really have to love being a white mage to be one I think)and receptive to constructive criticism, also the Reds I have met for the most part seem to know their role adjusts to what the pt needs.
If someone is willing to learn I will never dog them out. My party last night trained our second to last Warrior (another victim of power leveling) Kriss I think his name was... we trained him on when and how to provoke, we taught him how to skill chain, and taught him how to set up his macros. He was an attentive listener he didnt act like a prick cause we were trying to teach him something and by the end of the night he was a pretty good Tank (he ended up having to go because his wife busted him D'oh, I swear wives and girlfriends are party killers!!!)
I will be more than willing to go over any bit of info macrowise or other that you would like to ask about as will many players in a party. It is very rare that you get into a party and there isnt at least 1 or 2 people minimum that have at least a general idea of how most jobs roles should go in a party.
The best advice I can give to anyone is... if someone in a party gives you constructive criticism please dont take it as an insult we dont mean it that way. If someone is a **** about how they tell you youre not doing your job right its a bit more understandable to react defensively... if youre new to the game or just to that particular job ask them how you think you could improve. I think you would see their whole tone change pretty quickly. Most of the time that someone gets yelled i.e. PROVOKE DAMMIT ... its because people have tried to tell them a few times politely and it doesnt seem to be making an impact. I am in the Navy and work with some of the dumbest people in the ENTIRE WORLD I kid you not... and some people just dont hear you until you yell and curse and then they feel angry that you yelled and cursed at them but at least you got their attention. (i know that doesnt make it right but what can ya do?)
As far as the instruction book for FFXI goes... dont bother wasting your time it doesnt really help at all (you really have to buy the book to get any real help, stupid money making ploys)... look at one of the job guides on this site it will be way more helpful and wont run ya 20 bucks. Or ask me or anyone else that say they will offer ingame advice. I love meeting and talking to new people so Id be honored to help. Oh I will be here all day Im on the duty so I have nothing to do but watch forums and NCAA football all day.
If someone is willing to learn I will never dog them out. My party last night trained our second to last Warrior (another victim of power leveling) Kriss I think his name was... we trained him on when and how to provoke, we taught him how to skill chain, and taught him how to set up his macros. He was an attentive listener he didnt act like a prick cause we were trying to teach him something and by the end of the night he was a pretty good Tank (he ended up having to go because his wife busted him D'oh, I swear wives and girlfriends are party killers!!!)
I will be more than willing to go over any bit of info macrowise or other that you would like to ask about as will many players in a party. It is very rare that you get into a party and there isnt at least 1 or 2 people minimum that have at least a general idea of how most jobs roles should go in a party.
The best advice I can give to anyone is... if someone in a party gives you constructive criticism please dont take it as an insult we dont mean it that way. If someone is a **** about how they tell you youre not doing your job right its a bit more understandable to react defensively... if youre new to the game or just to that particular job ask them how you think you could improve. I think you would see their whole tone change pretty quickly. Most of the time that someone gets yelled i.e. PROVOKE DAMMIT ... its because people have tried to tell them a few times politely and it doesnt seem to be making an impact. I am in the Navy and work with some of the dumbest people in the ENTIRE WORLD I kid you not... and some people just dont hear you until you yell and curse and then they feel angry that you yelled and cursed at them but at least you got their attention. (i know that doesnt make it right but what can ya do?)
As far as the instruction book for FFXI goes... dont bother wasting your time it doesnt really help at all (you really have to buy the book to get any real help, stupid money making ploys)... look at one of the job guides on this site it will be way more helpful and wont run ya 20 bucks. Or ask me or anyone else that say they will offer ingame advice. I love meeting and talking to new people so Id be honored to help. Oh I will be here all day Im on the duty so I have nothing to do but watch forums and NCAA football all day.
13 posts
My personaly belief is that you should never power lvl a new player. If it is someone's mule, or an advanced player (refering to someone over lvl 30 and has access to adv jobs, because we all know not all lvl 30 people are advanced players) is working up a sub job for their main it is ok to PL them. Part of playing the game is learning the hard way. Yeah it takes time to get to be able to play with a group, but hell if you can't even get to lvl 7-10 by yourself what makes you think you can be in a successful party? Now on to the tank thing. Being a WAR once (PLD now) I was always the main tank in my parties, but we had some wars who wanted to be DRK, DRG, ect and were mainly wanting to deal damage. Just bc they are a WAR doesn't mean that they will want to tank, or even be good at it. If you are recruiting a tank make sure to ask the WAR if he would like to be the tank. In the Dunes I try to only get in parties with people that have sub jobs, because I know that they have a little bit more of an understanding of the game. Just remember we were all noobs once (even though we were better noobs =) )
Scholar
43 posts
Quote:
***NOTE*** Mentors are not banks!
Thank sweet Jesus, Amen! I'm saving up for my Kote right now and working hard, and I know how it feels not having money in the beginning of the game, but dear lord, why do people do this to me -.- I have no problem taking 5-10 minutes telling a newb about the AH and signet, where they should level, how to use macros, and little plusses and equiptment with their new jobs, but I get just a little offended when someone see's my mentor bubble and...
N00b>>Hi
Tranx>>Hullo
/c N00b
"1---/ "
N00b>>Can you lend me gil?
Tranx>>No, go get signet and farm crystals while you level and learn the game.
Usually I do a little explaining, but it still gets on my nerves.
As for the pling, I agree that it dampens things, my Valkurm experiences have been extra miserable lately. Most of them shift into pling at some point, and they're still inept at getting it done fast. Nothing depressed me more than the party of... THF,THF,THF,THF/NIN,WAR, and THF/RNG (me)... yeah.. right guys, awesome idea you have there, we can all pull out our daggers and take 3 minutes to kill a snipper (I was the only one at SA level.) Lots of similar stuff like that.
I also have the problem of people just attacking snips and not being more risky and going for the occassional gob or fly. My recent parties have been hell bent on snips, even though they give peanuts for xp at some point. 50 xp 50xp 50xp 50xp... "Hey guys, we really should switch, only the occassional snip is vt and there are too many pts to be able to chain"... "<No Thanks>" "Not unless you wanna die" "Let's be safe" and I proceed to waste time leveling my subjob when I could be leveling main or farming.
Quote:
Part of playing the game is learning the hard way.
Exactly, nothing felt better than leveling WAR after subjob quest and then going so much faster because I had chugged my way to 18. It does seem like the pling problem in Valk has gotten much worse lately though.
Edited, Fri Sep 24 18:57:59 2004 by Hawkiize
The problem i see is most newbs start as a war for some reason. I dont care if I die, its not like u lose items like in other rpgs such as Asheron's Call. If the newbs get the idea that dying is soooo bad, there will be no good tanks around. With that idea in their head, all of them will put themselves before the party.
Well, i'm a little hihger level thani was before, and I've learned a lot more abotu teh game than i had known... as such, i've been doign what i can to help new players learn. I don't PL anyone, but i do make sure they don't die. if they need a little help with equipment, i tell them the places where they can find gear for cheap prices, adn how to make some extra gil. granted, my levels down't go up as fast as i coudl be getting them up, but it's gratifying, knwoing that maybe this person I'm helping to learn will eventually be someone who will save some arrogant Noob's **** one day. the game's all about biting off more than you can chew... if you pick on a mob that can whoop yer butt with a flick of it's pinky toe, then you'd best hope you can run faster.
On a funny note, i saw a guy in Konschtat the other day who had never seen a Tremor Ram before... he was a lvl 10 war, no sub, and he deicded to voke it... that was fun to watch. i even gave the WHM that raised him 200 gil for their trouble, sicne i was able to sit this guy down and explain what an NM was... ^_^ (Naturally after I helped him get away from teh angry tremor ram again...)
On a funny note, i saw a guy in Konschtat the other day who had never seen a Tremor Ram before... he was a lvl 10 war, no sub, and he deicded to voke it... that was fun to watch. i even gave the WHM that raised him 200 gil for their trouble, sicne i was able to sit this guy down and explain what an NM was... ^_^ (Naturally after I helped him get away from teh angry tremor ram again...)
Scholar
29 posts
LOL! I hope you explained how to make a /check macro, that woulda helped immensely. Of course, he'll now be afraid of {Impossible to Gague} mobs for a while, but hey, that's how we all learn.
Hey norrain!! Wow ninja isn't even my main job o.O Thank you though XD. Yea my blm is getting to dune level :( I'm getting scared.
The noobs have come on in flocks...
Seriously, I had my first pt as a whm the other day (this is my second character, so I knew what I had to do, even though I was inexperienced at at it), and my pt was (seriously) me (WHM), a SMN/BLM, two BLMs, and a WAR. That was it. (the leader couldn't find anyone else to take the 6th spot)
If that's not bad enough, the tank didn't know how to provoke. I don't think she even knew she had provoke. She got most of the hate, but when I tried to heal her it all went to me, and I died, one of the BLMs died, she died, and then she left the pt, without a single word.
A WAR (or anyone with it subed) should know how to use provoke. Its like a whm not knowing how to cure: the pt won't survive.
Seriously, I had my first pt as a whm the other day (this is my second character, so I knew what I had to do, even though I was inexperienced at at it), and my pt was (seriously) me (WHM), a SMN/BLM, two BLMs, and a WAR. That was it. (the leader couldn't find anyone else to take the 6th spot)
If that's not bad enough, the tank didn't know how to provoke. I don't think she even knew she had provoke. She got most of the hate, but when I tried to heal her it all went to me, and I died, one of the BLMs died, she died, and then she left the pt, without a single word.
A WAR (or anyone with it subed) should know how to use provoke. Its like a whm not knowing how to cure: the pt won't survive.
Sorry doesn't begin to describe some of the newer warriors.
In the Dunes (A place that has more than once caused me to actively resent sand) the other day I was levelling my new favorite toy-- Dark Knight. Now as I have said before, a Dark Knight isn't exactly the sturdiest of melees-- Strike like Lightning, Tank like a Marshmallow. I was at first pleased to see the group had a WAR-- no sub, but that's not uncommon for newer players.
I soon realised that the WAR wasn't voking, and noticed that his armor wasn't the usual Lizard gear found at level 18... and decided to examine him.
Brass Harness... level 11 armor, and the rest of his gear was level 7 Leather stuff. I mentioned to him that he was rather behind in his gear, and he said, "Yes, I know, but I don't have much money."
Shortly after he left the party very abruptly and started to solo lizards. I for one was relieved and we got a proper tank. But by the Goddess, I was startled at that. And when I mentioned it to the party leader, he noted that he himself was startled-- he hadn't checked the WAR until I mentioned it-- but had assumed that the man had proper gear.
The WAR mentioned earlier that he had risen rather quickly through the levels-- perhaps from luck, perhaps from PL. Whatever it was, he certainly didn't have a proper clue about how to do his job. I wound up doing most of the actual tanking-- emergency voking mobs to keep the WHM alive. Which caused the WHM to have to focus on healing me a LOT-- because a DRK can hold hate pretty darn effectively if she needs to.
Makes a mithra want to weep, some of these newer players...
In the Dunes (A place that has more than once caused me to actively resent sand) the other day I was levelling my new favorite toy-- Dark Knight. Now as I have said before, a Dark Knight isn't exactly the sturdiest of melees-- Strike like Lightning, Tank like a Marshmallow. I was at first pleased to see the group had a WAR-- no sub, but that's not uncommon for newer players.
I soon realised that the WAR wasn't voking, and noticed that his armor wasn't the usual Lizard gear found at level 18... and decided to examine him.
Brass Harness... level 11 armor, and the rest of his gear was level 7 Leather stuff. I mentioned to him that he was rather behind in his gear, and he said, "Yes, I know, but I don't have much money."
Shortly after he left the party very abruptly and started to solo lizards. I for one was relieved and we got a proper tank. But by the Goddess, I was startled at that. And when I mentioned it to the party leader, he noted that he himself was startled-- he hadn't checked the WAR until I mentioned it-- but had assumed that the man had proper gear.
The WAR mentioned earlier that he had risen rather quickly through the levels-- perhaps from luck, perhaps from PL. Whatever it was, he certainly didn't have a proper clue about how to do his job. I wound up doing most of the actual tanking-- emergency voking mobs to keep the WHM alive. Which caused the WHM to have to focus on healing me a LOT-- because a DRK can hold hate pretty darn effectively if she needs to.
Makes a mithra want to weep, some of these newer players...
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