Sub job rantFollow

I apologize for the rant ahead of time.


Mithra, Galkans, Taru, Humes and Elves of all ages and sex, I come before you to ask a simple question.

Why on Vana'Diel are you running around looking for parties with underleveled subs and sorely out of date equipment?

Do you not realize that not only are you shorting yourself of stats and abilities, but you hurt the party that pities you?

It's one thing to be 28Pld with your War being 15, and you get into a kick butt party in Yhoator and you go from 28 - 32 in the space of a few hours. Okay, you weren't expecting to get 4 levels today, so your sub's off by one level. No problems.

However what is it with people running around 25 Nin/ 7 War? 26 Blm/ no sub. 34 Pld/ 6 War. 34 Whm/8 Blm. etc.....

You lose out on mp, hp, spells, and abilities. You are not an effective player no matter how lucky you are that you got that high.

I've partied with individuals who at 36 were wearing lvl 21 beetle gear on their warriors with a lvl 18 weapon. Granted rings in particular can be worn for several levels and the Kampf gear (hands, legs, feet) for Paladin can be kept a good 15 levels or more.

I've asked people what they are thinking here are some responses.

Come on that's a weak one. Go farm. My thf is 15 and I sub on blm or pld farming tigers, orcs and gobs. Just about doubles the gil I get off the gil mobs. Use a few low level jobs that you don't need good equipment for and kill in the low level safe zones. Sell the rabbit hides, crystals, ore, etc.... Sure you won't make 100k an hour, but take the time to farm or do repeatable gil quests to buy that decent armor.

???? What ???? Okay, I sub 15 Thf to my 44 Pld or 47 Blm. That's useful for farming. But in a party setting it sucks. 34Whm/7Blm looses out on several spells, including one of the best spells in the game (Warp). The higher you go the more abilities you lose out on. In the case of those subbing Blm you lose conserve mp trait for example. At lvl 40 your mage would not have that ability.

Ok, you have time to level your main but not your sub? That's not even weak, that's pathetic.


So all in all, people come on. Level your subs. Please. I personally when setting up a party will never invite a severly underleveled sub job person in. To me, it's a sign of severe noobness. Ranks up there with repetative party seek spams, repetative gil beg spams or any type of repetative spams.

I wholeheartedly aggree. NOTHING makes me more frustrated than farming my butt off for good gear and food to join a party with and undersubbed and underequiped player. Come on people the whole point of partying is so that each person can bring something to the table. NOT to be a liability.

I agree whole-heartedly, but the sad truth is, in some areas when trying to put a pt together desperation kicks in. I have personally pt'd with a 26WHM/6BLM. Was he a Noob? Yes. Did he help the party? Yes. Granted, we had to tell him to rest often and he learned the hard way not to cast Curaga mid-battle. Unfortunately, jobs with high-demand can and will get pt invites even with no sub or an underleveld one. It is unfortunate that they are allowed to "slide" without leveling their sub-jobs appropriately, but this will not stop in the near future. Honestly, it is an xp grind. Are you willing to wait an additional hour or two, or worse, disband the pt, because the only healer available has an underleveled sub? It is indeed sad, but what can you do? I am not willing to outright ridicule or insult people, but I know my polite sugestions and subtle hints often fall on deaf ears. Any advice on how to encourage them to "be all they can be" in a polite manner?

Mage

I have left parties because of people with underleveled subs or pathetic gear.

Not a lot of fun being in a party with a paladin who is wearing lizzy armor at 30. Bit of a downer playing whm in that party. Dude was getting hit for close to a 100 dam, by a mandy. Waste of ,p kepping him alive.

Was in a party leveling my war sub job. Had level 21 whm without cure II. Left that party real quick.

The point of the rant was mainly to vent some steam. I don't like leveling war, but I need to level it to 37 for sub on paladin. Farming sucks as well. However, I'm not going to hurt my party by gimping my abilities or spells or armor. But that's me. If you find it okay to be underleveled or under equipped, that's your cup of tea.

One reason that I think people don't like lving their SJ is because they don't like ending up in noobish PTs

I've resisted inviting a 4x WHM/5 WAR before & go for a RDM healer. A under lvl blm sub for a WHM is bad enough but a 05 WAR??!! that's beyond tolerance.

Gravy:

I met someone that was 26 blm with no sub job. I asked them why they didn't have a sub job yet. You know figuring maybe they were having trouble finding someone to help them get the last item (magicked skull for example.) This person told me that they weren't going to have a sub job until they unlocked summoner because they were going to be a smn/blm. Then proceeded to tell me that once you had a sub job you couldn't change it!


I about fell out my chair laughing so hard. There was nothing I could say at that point.

But yeah I understand that running through all the newb zones time and time again blow chunks. Goddess knows I've already gone through Valkurm, Qufim 5 times. Round 5 with war sub through Yuhtunga Jungle when ah can stomach the slapstick helter skelter party combos.

Amazingly enough I'm going to level up my mule to 19 blm 38 whm and then use whm as sub on bard. So that's another 3 rounds everywhere! It will be interesting however to see how I'm treated as a "Newb" in Valkurm this time around. :-)

Interestingly enough, the other day I was farming in Yughott Grotto for red cryptex. 44Pld/15thf (as stated earlier it's farming only) Made the mistake of not being anon. Had 2 people within 3 minutes ask me if I wanted to start up a party. ^^. Well got my cryptex a few min later, ran back to Sandy to change to whm to Tele-Altep myself out to farm Western Altepa spiders with my blm and my friend's thf. Still not anon, got out to Altepa, heading for Rabao, got a party request as 38whm/15thf! ::shaking head in amusement::

I have two points to make:

#1 - We were all noobs at one point. All of us.

#2 - IMHO, a good attitude is more valuable to a party than having uber-equipment, and a perfectly leveled subjob. I've PT'd with plenty of people with great equipment, the 'right' job or job/subjob, with the crappiest, most annoying, arrogant attitudes. So we XP well, but it's not much fun playing with those kinds of people.

Maybe I shouldn't even be saying this, since I'm a Beastmaster.

^^

an underleveled sub is only acceptable on one condition: you are soloing. If you are soloing you could be a level 75/1 for all I care, your loss is soley your own loss.

when you have others (namely your exp party members) relying on you, they have every right to demand someone who is fully leveled.

what always humored me would be the ones in my old LS (long dropped/broken) who would complain that they had been seeking party for 3 hours without an invite. Their subjob would be 1) non-cookie cutter (e.g. there was a level 23 war/whm complaining of no invites), or 2) underleveled sub by 3+ levels.

Papawarlock: you forgot the "I don't like playing that job. It sucks" excuse. (recently from both a bard and black mage who were subbing whm in my parties...we didn't realize until halfway through because we had partied with them a few times in the last few weeks and they had surpassed their subjob less than a week prior. decided that as long as they kept getting invites would not go back to leveling their subs >.> ...this at level 60+)

As one of the poor under equiped mages. Let me add one point to this.

As a blm/whm, how offten am I suppossed to get hit? Never sounds good to me. lol So armor that doesnt add stats is not really an issue. I am a taru so mana supply is not a problem. I have the best I can afford, but with the best being 24k - 50k I cant farm that much. The game is not called Final Farm XI. Add in spells at 20k and rising, and food for mp regen and added mp. It gets really expensive for us lower income families. :p

Just a thought to give the other side a voice. :)

Arthog;


Mages and armor is an entirely different aspect. Mages can get away with armor 20 levels under due to the stats that we go for. However, mages without spells is not a fun thing. IMO. Mages without spells is like a War with crappy armor. I have to buy blm spells, had to buy whm spells. I have to buy updated armor and weaponry for paladin and warrior. Whm 38, Blm 50, Pld 45, War 26. Let's talk expense here. For Pld I'm wearing close to 300k of armor. For my mage jobs I've spent probably close to a million gil on spells.

I farm. I craft. I do BCNMs. If I don't have the armor/weapons to melee I don't fight. If I can't buy the next spell I need, I don't fight.

Yeah I know it's a pain in the **** to level crafting. It's a pain to farm. But, IMO, you short yourself and your party by not being prepared. With my blm I'm still using RSE pants and boots for the mp and stat boosts. If my whm was stuck at say 15 and I'm at lvl 50, what can I offer the party? No cure III, no sneak, no invisible, no regen, no blink.

But again with mages it's always different from melees.

Friend of mine has lost several party invites because he wasn't wearing the uber equipment. 2 Sniper's Rings, Valk mask, etc.... Pre 30 it's not really as big of a deal, but as you get higher in level it does become more of an issue.

See ya 'round :-)

Art;


Blm- missing no spells at lvl 50
Whm- missing only the aga spells and Erase. The aga spells aren't an issue for me because of it being subbed for blm. Blm has better aga spells. Got Erase off BCNM40 but sold it for the gil. If I decide to take whm past 38, I MIGHT pick it up, but IMO highly overrated as a spell.
Pld- still using the Kampf hands, feet and leg gear @ 45 due to the vit bonuses and seeing as how the def isn't much better for 45 gear. 2 verve rings. All the best gear available allowing me to be the best Pld that I can be.

Alc- lvl 74 and rising. My alchemy brings in min of 100k a week.

Gil in the bank 490k, not counting that on mules. Just paid 130k for nobles bed for the last mog upgrade.

I've made close to 2mil gil doing bcnm20 Shooting Fish using my smn. Between my crafting, farming and BCNM's I ensure I'm not gimped.

This isn't a bash against you btw. I play to have fun as much as you do. I don't kick people out of a party for being 30/14 or having a bit outdated gear. But, I don't invite say 30/5 people. I did leave a party once after 30 min because the 36war was wearing lvl 18 gear. Not a very good tank, took too much damage and kept no hate at all making the party very unpleasant for all involved. I have partied with people with slightly uneven job/sub jobs that knew what they were doing and did extremely well.

This rant was more of a plea to people to make the most of themselves. IMO people unwilling to level their sub jobs hurt themselves and their party. IMO people unwilling to take the time to make the gil to buy good, solid, decent equipment and spells hurt themselves and their party.

And, btw, you are right that just because someone's in Uber gear doesn't mean they are a good player. I was in a party leveling my whm sub job, with two blm/whm tarutarus. One had about 700k in gear, including two astral rings. The other taru had maybe 125k in gear. The taru with the fewest mp held up better and contributed more to the party than the taru with the uber gear. Recently I was asked to replace a blm in a party, because this guy had no spells in the level 40 range. No waterga II, no Blizzard II, no Thunder II.

i do have to admit - i started out the game as a BLM, and only leveld WHM To 4 and kinda quit
after i hit 30 i was kinda sick of not having Cure II so i leveled WHM to 37 just for the matter of not having to level it again!
after that i leveled all jobs so i dont have to deal with not having Subjobs, hehe
i do admit when i see stuff like 50/23, i do not invite, ESPECIALLY people who sub level 1 jobs just for "having" it, yes, i have seen THF4x / 1nin
i dont understand that
i wholeheartedly agree, ill PL them if so cuz i feel bad - yet i do not want the noobness in my PTS!