This point has been made in a few threads so I thought I would make it it's own post.
Somehow or another in the last several months, noteably since the influx of the Europeans, many craft items have risen two to three times the former rates, yet crafted items have not.
My wife and I have too much time on our hands and so we craft a lot. We are both irritated and frustrated that we make little profit on some items, and more oft we lose large sums of gil crafting.
Crystals have been our largest gripe. This past summer, before the release of CoP, fire crytals averaged 2k/stack and now run close to 4k. Earth ran 400-600g/stack and now have risen up to 1200/stack. Wind ran 1200g/stack and now close to 3k more than not. This is just a sampling of crystal prices.
Yagudo necklaces ran 200-300g and now run 700-900g each. Bronze ingots used to run about 4k/stack now run 7-8k/stack. Another small sampling of rising raw ingredients.
Most of the armor and weapons have not risen in cost. Why is this? I synthed Butterfly axes over the summer, converted into Inferno/Hellfire axes while leveling alchemy. Butterfly axes still in the 2-3k price and the non +1 fire axes still 6-7k each and the plus version around 10-13k in Sandy. Yet the ingredients are twice what they used to be.
Can anyone explain this?
It's always baffeled me that even 8 months ago profit margins were 10% at best, and often break even or losses were incurred.
In the real world, raw ingredients have risen and so have the finished goods prices.
So many on these boards have said "Economics this, Economics that" in regards to the rising cost of spells or rare items. Yet, simple economics seem not to apply to crafting.
It does us no good to sell finished goods for a profit as they will not sell. But we level our crafting skills anyway because it keeps us occupied.
- Forums
- FFXI Servers
- Shiva
- Crafting Economics
Crafting EconomicsFollow
I've also woundered that, today I was crafting and i went to get a Wind Cluster the same thing as a stack and when i bided on the usual price 2000gil and i tryed this several times raiseing it by 100gil finaly I decided to look at the Price history. And the prices were 3000! How can the prices raise that mutch in such a short time the last time I checked at that AH in Sandy it was only 2000 and also some bids were 1800gill and now look! Im very poor and depend on low prices just like my brothers the well known elvaan Sobek the poor thief and then the not known Taru Otus, the realy poor RDM. Otus hase'nt even had 10k, the highest he had at one time was only 6k! So I also think others depend on low prices. So I say we keep lowering the prices on the bids and when we put them up for action that we we can be the Cheap server agian!
What Happened to Shiva Being the Cheap Server.
What Happened to Shiva Being the Cheap Server.
Remember that durables (ie. armor, weapons, etc) in FFXI do not break down. What you see selling in AH are not just newly crafted items but items that ppl have no more use for and trying to sell away. The no. of such items keep accumulate and circulate between players so don't expect prices to rise unless you are making end game items which ppl keep forever.
With all due respect Bhaal, I'm not refering to just low level stuff. Take a gander at the cost of ingredients of elemental staves for example. Cost of materials outweighs the cost of product. And elemental staves are usually kept for end game purposes.
Consumables also, shihei, silent oils etc..... Unless your high enough to get large chunk of HQ's, leveling craft on these items is break even if your lucky.
HQ is where most crafters make their gil profit, but crafting normal items shouldn't come at the losses in which they do either.
Consumables also, shihei, silent oils etc..... Unless your high enough to get large chunk of HQ's, leveling craft on these items is break even if your lucky.
HQ is where most crafters make their gil profit, but crafting normal items shouldn't come at the losses in which they do either.
Gear is a lot more expensive then it once was, so the little guys have to make that money somehow. They make it by raising the price on crystals and other consumable goods that people buy every day.
Also, why would anyone list a stack of fire crystals for 2k if they could make 4k off them? People allowed the price to get that high by buying them for that price.
People buying gil and powerleveling crafts is part of the problem as well. That is why you will see prices drop so much sometimes. People are trying to recover as much of that $20 they leeched off Daddy's credit card as they can.
Fire crystals are in higher demand for a few reasons, most notably the changes to food effects and the demand created for the new 3 hr foods. Instead of 1 fire crystal per stack of mithkabobs, now it's 1 STACK of fire crystals for 12 servings of Bison Meat, etc.
The funny thing is I list items at the AH a lot cheaper sometimes, and get the last price I saw at the AH in my delivery box.
That baffles me, especially when I list several of the same items at times. Some people don't even try to get a bargain at the AH anymore.
-Spelling edit
Edited, Mon Feb 14 23:11:00 2005 by ScarShiva
Also, why would anyone list a stack of fire crystals for 2k if they could make 4k off them? People allowed the price to get that high by buying them for that price.
People buying gil and powerleveling crafts is part of the problem as well. That is why you will see prices drop so much sometimes. People are trying to recover as much of that $20 they leeched off Daddy's credit card as they can.
Fire crystals are in higher demand for a few reasons, most notably the changes to food effects and the demand created for the new 3 hr foods. Instead of 1 fire crystal per stack of mithkabobs, now it's 1 STACK of fire crystals for 12 servings of Bison Meat, etc.
The funny thing is I list items at the AH a lot cheaper sometimes, and get the last price I saw at the AH in my delivery box.
That baffles me, especially when I list several of the same items at times. Some people don't even try to get a bargain at the AH anymore.
-Spelling edit
Edited, Mon Feb 14 23:11:00 2005 by ScarShiva
If you can break even or profit leveling a craft, you're ahead of the game.
I view the gil I lose in crafts as an investment in my future money making ability, and believe me, before I started crafting, I had to leave town to make money. ^^
When it comes to elemental staffs, realize you have to be 100+2 Woodworking to even have a decent shot at HQ, and crafters don't have unlimited storage for the NQs so they will be listed at the AH below cost to move quickly. You can still make close to 100% profit on these, if you grow your own ores, log and synth your own lumber, and have a high level goldsmithing friend willing to craft those ores into beads for you.
Of course, you would probably make more money selling the ores and even more selling the beads, but if you HQ an elemental staff, you just sold a 750k-1 mil+ item. You've made enough profit that you can afford to dump the NQ staffs on the AH at a slight loss, or maybe even at a higher loss to keep the lower level crafters at bay. Those crafters at 90+ don't want competition and they will try to force you off the market if they can.
This isn't always a bad thing. In a way, it was good that the elemental ore gardening recipes became more well known, as it helped reduce the prices of elemental staves and put more of them into supply, lowering their cost to within the reach of average players. The price is starting to rise on the staves once again, as many of the gardeners growing these migrated to Remora, and many other people growing them are smart enough not to list them on AH, thereby increasing demand and the ability to set their own prices.
I view the gil I lose in crafts as an investment in my future money making ability, and believe me, before I started crafting, I had to leave town to make money. ^^
When it comes to elemental staffs, realize you have to be 100+2 Woodworking to even have a decent shot at HQ, and crafters don't have unlimited storage for the NQs so they will be listed at the AH below cost to move quickly. You can still make close to 100% profit on these, if you grow your own ores, log and synth your own lumber, and have a high level goldsmithing friend willing to craft those ores into beads for you.
Of course, you would probably make more money selling the ores and even more selling the beads, but if you HQ an elemental staff, you just sold a 750k-1 mil+ item. You've made enough profit that you can afford to dump the NQ staffs on the AH at a slight loss, or maybe even at a higher loss to keep the lower level crafters at bay. Those crafters at 90+ don't want competition and they will try to force you off the market if they can.
This isn't always a bad thing. In a way, it was good that the elemental ore gardening recipes became more well known, as it helped reduce the prices of elemental staves and put more of them into supply, lowering their cost to within the reach of average players. The price is starting to rise on the staves once again, as many of the gardeners growing these migrated to Remora, and many other people growing them are smart enough not to list them on AH, thereby increasing demand and the ability to set their own prices.
Scholar
49 posts
<Double Post>
Edited, Tue Feb 15 05:24:37 2005 by Fatter
Edited, Tue Feb 15 05:24:37 2005 by Fatter
Scholar
49 posts
Prices of crafted items remain stable while the supplies to create them are ballooning, you say? This is simply because there are more crafters out there. A while back there were, say, 20 lvl100 crafters as a whole. They set the market, set their own profits, competing with a few others over the entire server of people. Crafters couldn't craft enough for the huge demand there was for those items. Nowadays, that number of lvl100 crafters has multiplied exponentially. Now there's hundreds of people with one craft or another at 100. So what does this mean? These folks have to search for ways to make money, one inch at a time. So they take advantage of their 100, making normal qualities at a loss (so that lower level crafters don't dare attempt the synth, limiting their competition) and get their money in HQs.
The most extreme example of this I've seen is the Amemit Mantle. Main ingredient: 270k. RQ synth: 5k (265k loss) HQ synth: 1.2M (930k gain). In this example, the price of the HQ goes basically by how often a 100+3 can HQ it (Somewhere around 1/3 synths yields a HQ, which makes the crafter on average 100k per 4 attempts, with a huge amount of risk. Do you feel lucky??)
Even the profit they gain from their HQs is slight, because of all the 100 competition...if you successfully overcut an item for a decent chunk of gil, a dozen or more other crafters your level will see this and attempt it. Things will go unsold, and crafters will cut their losses and bring the price back down.
Not to mention the fact that every time an elemental stave is brought into being, it does NOT go away (as another poster was saying). These are not end-game equipment, the HQ staves are. So there's more and more dark staffs floating around and getting to be less and less people still needing them. What do you think'll happen?
The most extreme example of this I've seen is the Amemit Mantle. Main ingredient: 270k. RQ synth: 5k (265k loss) HQ synth: 1.2M (930k gain). In this example, the price of the HQ goes basically by how often a 100+3 can HQ it (Somewhere around 1/3 synths yields a HQ, which makes the crafter on average 100k per 4 attempts, with a huge amount of risk. Do you feel lucky??)
Even the profit they gain from their HQs is slight, because of all the 100 competition...if you successfully overcut an item for a decent chunk of gil, a dozen or more other crafters your level will see this and attempt it. Things will go unsold, and crafters will cut their losses and bring the price back down.
Not to mention the fact that every time an elemental stave is brought into being, it does NOT go away (as another poster was saying). These are not end-game equipment, the HQ staves are. So there's more and more dark staffs floating around and getting to be less and less people still needing them. What do you think'll happen?
Scar:
Actually I took the painful lessons from leveling Alchemy and applied them to woodworking. I pretty much broke even on synthing by getting lumberjack as soon as I could and saved huge chunks of gil farming Wind and Earth clusters and then turning around and synthing my own lumber. Getting 3-6 stacks of arrowwood or ash lumber out of 36 logs, 12 bundling twines and a stack of wind clusters saves me 12-24k on lumber by not buying AH prices. My wife's cloth can make the fletchings for arrows and her bone craft can make a portion of arrowheads and my alchemy can supply most of the rest.
Few people like competition when it comes to making gil in this game. Too many are ruthless and cutthroat. I craft more for the pride than to make that 1 million gil HQ item. I can make a fair chunk of change off of photoanimas and consumables. Not everyone crafts for pride.
Woodworking 56 Alchemy 81 Blacksmithing 23 Clothcraft 12 Goldsmithing 13.
Quote:
If you can break even or profit leveling a craft, you're ahead of the game.
I view the gil I lose in crafts as an investment in my future money making ability, and believe me, before I started crafting, I had to leave town to make money. ^^
When it comes to elemental staffs, realize you have to be 100+2 Woodworking to even have a decent shot at HQ, and crafters don't have unlimited storage for the NQs so they will be listed at the AH below cost to move quickly. You can still make close to 100% profit on these, if you grow your own ores, log and synth your own lumber, and have a high level goldsmithing friend willing to craft those ores into beads for you.
I view the gil I lose in crafts as an investment in my future money making ability, and believe me, before I started crafting, I had to leave town to make money. ^^
When it comes to elemental staffs, realize you have to be 100+2 Woodworking to even have a decent shot at HQ, and crafters don't have unlimited storage for the NQs so they will be listed at the AH below cost to move quickly. You can still make close to 100% profit on these, if you grow your own ores, log and synth your own lumber, and have a high level goldsmithing friend willing to craft those ores into beads for you.
Actually I took the painful lessons from leveling Alchemy and applied them to woodworking. I pretty much broke even on synthing by getting lumberjack as soon as I could and saved huge chunks of gil farming Wind and Earth clusters and then turning around and synthing my own lumber. Getting 3-6 stacks of arrowwood or ash lumber out of 36 logs, 12 bundling twines and a stack of wind clusters saves me 12-24k on lumber by not buying AH prices. My wife's cloth can make the fletchings for arrows and her bone craft can make a portion of arrowheads and my alchemy can supply most of the rest.
Few people like competition when it comes to making gil in this game. Too many are ruthless and cutthroat. I craft more for the pride than to make that 1 million gil HQ item. I can make a fair chunk of change off of photoanimas and consumables. Not everyone crafts for pride.
Woodworking 56 Alchemy 81 Blacksmithing 23 Clothcraft 12 Goldsmithing 13.
I have to agree with the whole durable equipment arguement. Becouse if you have noticed most food prices have been rising slightly too (with the exception of sushi which has lowered becouse more and more people can make it).
Look around you... the economy is changing, for the worse I might add. I remember selling my first stack of fire crystals in Bastok AH for 2500g and I thought I was being naughty for charging the max... boy the good ol' days!
flat and simple... people are stupid and greedy. They see an item they want on ah and when it says "unable to buy" they go **** i better not wait till some smart guy posts one at what its worth i better pay more gil now! buyer has his nice newitem and the rest of the server gets to pay for it. This is why a economy driven by players does not work (well to the extent of the na players release i have seen, i cannot say how it was before the na release although looking back the prices were much much lower...). now selelr number 2 comes sees the price history and guess what... posts it for the "new" price effectivly repeating the chain of stupidity and causing all people after them to be caught in the chain :/ on the offside to this is undercutting... people arnt smart enough to relize the cost to make the item, they want thiers to sell fast so they post it at a bigger loss, which in turn ruins the economy more... undercutting is also used by some crafters who already have gil to drive others out ( a practice that has some merit abut is kinda lame :/).
How can these things be fixed? well its irreversable unelss you can get everyone owning leaping boots to sell lower then the ah history.... one person selling them at 200k wont cause others to sell for 200k... (yes leaping boots were originally worth 200k, not the 500k+ price you see today), but prices CAN be stabalized if people stop over and undercutting. Will this happen? not unelss square does soemthing to fix the economy... people are just to greedy for that.
of course other thigns effect prices to... like gil sellers, people who buy ah out and repost etc etc,... but i wont go into that
How can these things be fixed? well its irreversable unelss you can get everyone owning leaping boots to sell lower then the ah history.... one person selling them at 200k wont cause others to sell for 200k... (yes leaping boots were originally worth 200k, not the 500k+ price you see today), but prices CAN be stabalized if people stop over and undercutting. Will this happen? not unelss square does soemthing to fix the economy... people are just to greedy for that.
of course other thigns effect prices to... like gil sellers, people who buy ah out and repost etc etc,... but i wont go into that
Recent Visitors: 25
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (25)
- Forums
- FFXI Servers
- Shiva
- Crafting Economics
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC