Double post.
Edited, Fri Mar 4 04:21:00 2005 by TropicSloTh
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- HNM LS requirements to join?
HNM LS requirements to join?Follow
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49 posts
sad to say...but this fool LadyofHonor makes a lot of sense ;)
Bottom line is that my LS is comprised of friends I have made all the way since 2 October's ago. As the months go by, people will come, and people will go, but the original members are still intact to enjoy all the endgame material with each other.
You can say how evil HNM LS'es are, but when you hit that magical number of 75, you will find the urge to want to be doing all the things these "evil LS'es" are doing.
Bottom line is that my LS is comprised of friends I have made all the way since 2 October's ago. As the months go by, people will come, and people will go, but the original members are still intact to enjoy all the endgame material with each other.
You can say how evil HNM LS'es are, but when you hit that magical number of 75, you will find the urge to want to be doing all the things these "evil LS'es" are doing.
i'm not trying to outcast you bro. i do want you to be with you friend, before the whole voting process was that friends are like automatic in. Now a days it's like that, to get less stress off me i what you call a "democratic" LS basically the peoples voice what they want and what they do want. My job as the LS leader to overview the entire operation while i foucus on future linkshell activites, planning, and outside LS issues (ex: someone having beef with my LS). People felt we had enough melees in the LS and they voice there expression that we're not in need of any more drks.
but i took you view into consideration and did ask my other advisers if it seem like a good idea. Basically we run a sponsorship program where we take in people below the requirements to join this LS to be closer to there friends.
so bro i have nothing against you, hopefully there will be a loophole in our system that can actually get you in this linkshell.
but i took you view into consideration and did ask my other advisers if it seem like a good idea. Basically we run a sponsorship program where we take in people below the requirements to join this LS to be closer to there friends.
so bro i have nothing against you, hopefully there will be a loophole in our system that can actually get you in this linkshell.
I agree with Whisper and Neo HNM/SKY LS is want almost everyone wants end game. You can get all that gear you have been dreaming of, make decent income my simply killing mobs and have alot of fun and meet new people. Obviously greed happens you deal with alot of money/dream gear and there is always competition for it. When someone wastes several minutes-several hours and loses to competition hate and tears arise and thats why all this drama happens, among other things. Despite all the drama,and anger and hate its really the most fun I've ever had in this game and I would never give it up., and ask almost anyone in a high lvl LS and you will probably get the same response. Not knowing if you are gonna win adds to the thrill and when you see those money items and rare ex gear you have been drooling over since you started it feels so much more rewarding then crafting or farming ever did. As for saying someone has no life, I don't really think anyone with a 50+ job is in any position to call someone a nerd or whatever. Whether you play 3 hours a day or 10 hours a day you have spent way too much time playing this game to act like some hot shot cool kid. We are all nerds,dorks,whatever just accept it :P
neo its just honestly i dont want to be left without my friends is all. I lvl with Alek (Lacy'sdad) and Daxter (a pld in DVS).
and i know when u take them both in when they hit 70 (if you do) i'm not going to be lvling with them anymore there always going to be busy doing this with you thus outcasting me in a way and leaving me on a what seems to be dieing ls as of late.
That was just what i felt i had to say i hold no grudges against you or your HNM ls like i do some of the others. I honestly hope one day i could be having fun with my friends doing high lvl things and not being left behind when i see them in the sky.
and i know when u take them both in when they hit 70 (if you do) i'm not going to be lvling with them anymore there always going to be busy doing this with you thus outcasting me in a way and leaving me on a what seems to be dieing ls as of late.
That was just what i felt i had to say i hold no grudges against you or your HNM ls like i do some of the others. I honestly hope one day i could be having fun with my friends doing high lvl things and not being left behind when i see them in the sky.
6 posts
If you are really that afraid of your friends leaving you behind, perhaps you should ask them not to join HOCD. But it'll have to be a moral call for you. Do you want to stop them from what they want to do to make you feel more secure? Also, maybe they will decide not to join on their own because they want to stay together with you so much.
Either way, if you can't get into HOCD, there's ways you and your friends can still stay together.
Either way, if you can't get into HOCD, there's ways you and your friends can still stay together.
Quote:
Now wouldn't it be interesting to go to sky with your LS and fight something different for a change?
heh...
Except for Genbu...even the gods are just another Manticore (Kirin), Big Turkey (Suzaku), Tiger (Byakko), Wyvern (Seiryu)...
And if you EXP in the sky...Weapons, Jars, Golems.
._.
From an ex-HNMLS person, HNMLS are fun. It's a great place to do things you've waitied 75 levels for. But it does take dedication if you want to make it big, and truly become a respected member. This means time in most cases, and at times, your hard worked level. I mean multiple deaths in Dynamis is common, and I've heard horror stories about entire level 75 population deleveling to 74 while taking on a certain HNM.
It does become cut-throat at NM claim spots (but wait, isn't VE, Lizzie, and Punshier cut throat too? :P) because the stupid thing only pops 24-48 hour intervals, and yes, there maybe some are disrepectful, and will try to steal the claim. But I think it's rare. We don't hear about HNMLSs helping eachother via free RB3s at a claim, or about Ryunoire helping another HNMLS member kill Wyvernpoacher. We don't hear about HNMLSs leaving a known trigger mob camp spot to respect the HNMLS that was already there. But when the rare "HNMLS MPKed ME!!" we all assume that's the norm.
Most HNMLSs do have strict rules against such things, and at my first big Roc claim, I was told stirctly to respect "even the gil farmer LS" and to stay back, and leave them alone.
I do think it's best if your own LS that you've grew up in can grow stronger, bigger, and eventually become pack of buds to go take on a level 95 HNM. But like many said, this is really hard work for the leader, and will take organization, skill, and again...time.
I don't have the time. I can't be the HNMLS member that I wanted to be, and therefore, I've decided that it's not for me. So people shouldn't look down on people that are in HNMLS, and people in HNMLS shouldn't look down on those who are not in them. It's a personal choice we all made, and everybody should respect eachother's form of playing the game.
I don't believe that HNM/sky linkshells are particularly evil, although there are some very irritating individuals in most of them. These types of linkshell attract the less desirable people in FFXI who believe they must have the best of gear and look down on anyone without awesome gear. I've been levelling miscellaneous jobs in the 20s lately and have had pick up parties where people talk about their HNM linkshell and how great their gear is. Then they check the other people in the party and tell them what is wrong with their gear. Perhaps the original form of most of the current HNM/sky linkshells were decent groups of people but recruiting high level players appears to have diluted original goals. There is nothing wrong with doing end game stuff. It's just how people go about doing it that is the problem. It is a game and it's about fun, not about back-stabbing in order to get the best gear.
Edit: I can't spell at all it seems.
Edited, Thu Mar 17 05:26:07 2005 by Meara
do i have to 100% in the LS all the time? i heard some HMNLS kick ppl out for not 100% in the LS
All HNMLS's have different rules some have a rule that is 100% some have a rule No you must not have another HNMLS. So it really takes talking to the members or visting there websites to find the answer for that particular shell.
Funny even had a HNMLS say I could come with them on an event but if we killed a NM on the way I couldnt lot. I thought to my self cool I will just sit back and watch then :P. It just made me laugh really. Needless to say I didn't go and later joined Hero a great group of guys fo sure.
Funny even had a HNMLS say I could come with them on an event but if we killed a NM on the way I couldnt lot. I thought to my self cool I will just sit back and watch then :P. It just made me laugh really. Needless to say I didn't go and later joined Hero a great group of guys fo sure.
Shinkyu: Hey man, im a 70 DRK so i know what your goin through. Take my advice. get used to it.
As a DRK, your not "desireable", and unfortunately, when there are so many Dark Knights around it compounds the problem. Get used to sitting on the sidelines. Best advice i can give is apply to the LS you want, and wait. Level, farm, do whatever and wait for a response. Ive had alot of doors slam shut in my face due to my job. it sucks. no matter how great of a person you are or how good of a player your just not whats needed. I am still not in a HNMLS. I dont really blame the LS's for not letting me in, they have to run the ls the best they know how, simple as that.
Besides, your a DRK. Nothing up to this point has ever been easy. Cant tell me you expected that to change.
As a DRK, your not "desireable", and unfortunately, when there are so many Dark Knights around it compounds the problem. Get used to sitting on the sidelines. Best advice i can give is apply to the LS you want, and wait. Level, farm, do whatever and wait for a response. Ive had alot of doors slam shut in my face due to my job. it sucks. no matter how great of a person you are or how good of a player your just not whats needed. I am still not in a HNMLS. I dont really blame the LS's for not letting me in, they have to run the ls the best they know how, simple as that.
Besides, your a DRK. Nothing up to this point has ever been easy. Cant tell me you expected that to change.
8 posts
The problem with a HNM is that fact that you have 1 faction that want this, then you have 1 faction that. Now what bugs me about most hnm's ls, is they seemed more pro for the 70+ people then, those who actually gave their blood and sweat, to build the shell in the first place.
And no I’m not speaking of any ls in particular; I believe this is that aptitude of most major hnm's ls. Contra to what some people may believe, This is not my main nor is it my first character I have a sleeper character (None Playing, still paying) on Ragnarok server named Lufia, she's a lvl 75 Pld, 73 Rdm, 70 Thf Etc. I've seen my share of HNMS, and I found it wasn’t what I wanted, I wanted more to help people.
Which was the original crusade of my Linkshell, but like so many leaders I let my vision of nobility fade away for what? Buckets of gill, sure gill is good but would you sell your soul out of greed. I think not. The friends we make online regardless of knowing them in real life or not, are still our friends I for one would not backstab a friend for promised riches.
I see much greed on Shiva people willing to sell their soul and for what a piece of digital armour? Don’t let your dignity and pride fade away for mere digital trinkets. This is a game but as such it bears a reflection of a real world. I've been in Hero a pretty long time but before hero there was Shining my linkshell, my pride and joy but like all things of glory, it once noble goals usually fall stray nobility is one thing, but having the will to defy the mainstream for what you believe, is right is another.
All this bickering and petty jealousy over digital items, need to stop do you honestly think having 9894839849 gill will make you a better person. No this a game of unity, but alas chivalry is dead...the reason for the party depended is to make people work better together and form friendships; you race to 75 and for what. The promise of wealth and power... illusions regardless if your lvl 1 or lvl 75 you have no real power, you are merely a player, and in the end that is all we are. But we can be more we can be people; Unity is all about helping your fellow man.
Unite, for a common goal... the goal to create a better world for everyone. If everyone helped build that world vana would be a better place, together we are legion but apart we are but sheep’s lost to the fields of grass. I see many people ask for help, but the people do not answer this calls they ignore them in there own selfish desires for wealth and power, if you have the power to aid should you not answer the call of battle? Is your own soul so blacked by your greed that you would ignore people in need.
As I said this is a game you’re meant to have fun, but when people ignore you and are selfish your not having fun. In a game that is sooo rooted into corporation it is not always about what you want, but what others want as well. Take hero for example it has a point system you get points to help out with zilart, but should you really need encouragement; to do good deeds or need rewards?
Keep in mind that your path and decision affects others, and while you may not see beyond your own petty need for digital items it will effect how other view you.
Most of you know me, I had my good and bad days and of course my own demons. I do not claim to be a saint nor do I claim to be the devil. I claim to be a human as such we have our flaws, we are not perfect nor will we ever be perfection is an illusion. And so is elites men I think back to all the things I may have done wrong while being on Shiva, a few things come to mind but I will not mention them here.
As most of you know I left FF XI a while back, I told my self I would not come back and left to play Ever Quest 2 but I was bored. And borrowed my friend's character "Cakes" Played it a while but alas it was not the same, so I recently returned it. I do not truly understand how people can buy characters; it is not the same as earning the lvls or items. Anyway do not let your quest for power or wealth corrupts your own ideals, and compass of what is right and wrong.
You’re truly
Saya C. Takana Aka Terranova
And no I’m not speaking of any ls in particular; I believe this is that aptitude of most major hnm's ls. Contra to what some people may believe, This is not my main nor is it my first character I have a sleeper character (None Playing, still paying) on Ragnarok server named Lufia, she's a lvl 75 Pld, 73 Rdm, 70 Thf Etc. I've seen my share of HNMS, and I found it wasn’t what I wanted, I wanted more to help people.
Which was the original crusade of my Linkshell, but like so many leaders I let my vision of nobility fade away for what? Buckets of gill, sure gill is good but would you sell your soul out of greed. I think not. The friends we make online regardless of knowing them in real life or not, are still our friends I for one would not backstab a friend for promised riches.
I see much greed on Shiva people willing to sell their soul and for what a piece of digital armour? Don’t let your dignity and pride fade away for mere digital trinkets. This is a game but as such it bears a reflection of a real world. I've been in Hero a pretty long time but before hero there was Shining my linkshell, my pride and joy but like all things of glory, it once noble goals usually fall stray nobility is one thing, but having the will to defy the mainstream for what you believe, is right is another.
All this bickering and petty jealousy over digital items, need to stop do you honestly think having 9894839849 gill will make you a better person. No this a game of unity, but alas chivalry is dead...the reason for the party depended is to make people work better together and form friendships; you race to 75 and for what. The promise of wealth and power... illusions regardless if your lvl 1 or lvl 75 you have no real power, you are merely a player, and in the end that is all we are. But we can be more we can be people; Unity is all about helping your fellow man.
Unite, for a common goal... the goal to create a better world for everyone. If everyone helped build that world vana would be a better place, together we are legion but apart we are but sheep’s lost to the fields of grass. I see many people ask for help, but the people do not answer this calls they ignore them in there own selfish desires for wealth and power, if you have the power to aid should you not answer the call of battle? Is your own soul so blacked by your greed that you would ignore people in need.
As I said this is a game you’re meant to have fun, but when people ignore you and are selfish your not having fun. In a game that is sooo rooted into corporation it is not always about what you want, but what others want as well. Take hero for example it has a point system you get points to help out with zilart, but should you really need encouragement; to do good deeds or need rewards?
Keep in mind that your path and decision affects others, and while you may not see beyond your own petty need for digital items it will effect how other view you.
Most of you know me, I had my good and bad days and of course my own demons. I do not claim to be a saint nor do I claim to be the devil. I claim to be a human as such we have our flaws, we are not perfect nor will we ever be perfection is an illusion. And so is elites men I think back to all the things I may have done wrong while being on Shiva, a few things come to mind but I will not mention them here.
As most of you know I left FF XI a while back, I told my self I would not come back and left to play Ever Quest 2 but I was bored. And borrowed my friend's character "Cakes" Played it a while but alas it was not the same, so I recently returned it. I do not truly understand how people can buy characters; it is not the same as earning the lvls or items. Anyway do not let your quest for power or wealth corrupts your own ideals, and compass of what is right and wrong.
You’re truly
Saya C. Takana Aka Terranova
6 posts
what if having tons of digital armor and gil is fun for you? what if you're so busy having fun that you don't have as much time to help every low level that crosses your path? how exactly does "a quest for power" relate to whether or not someone gets points for helping on ziliart missions? isn't right and wrong relative? what's right to someone might be viewed as wrong to someone else. what exactly has anyone from a hnmmls done that is considered "backstabbing" to each other that gives them such a bad name? how exactly do you trade your soul for a digital trinket because i would sure like to find out how much souls are worth and whether or not they are stackable. i mean, do souls sell well on the AH or what? uniting for a common goal... isn't that what linkshells are all about? i'm not too sure where you're going with this but your words sound pretty but hold no real depth.
OK I'm a lvl51 smn right now, nowhere near having to worry about being in a HNMLS. After reading all that has been said here, I /applaud all the participants. Please forgive me before I talk, I must say Its 5am here, and I may say something stupid or noobish or whatever. I neither wish to take sides, nor burn any bridges, as I'm not sure how far I will get in the game. I may have to depend on one of you or all of you at some point in my FFXI career, who knows where the winds of fate may take me. ^^
That being said, this whole situation scares me. Quite literally. I have a few questions to go thru while i rant. ^^
1. Do HNM ls's require you to be online every day?
Currently I'm galavanting around the country, going to colledge and helping with family matters (mostly pertaining to death ><) I could easily see where people would be unable to log on for days or even weeks. In that situation would they be kicked from the ls? Meaning are they constantly doing events/quests/battles every day where participation is mandatory? This leads me to my next question...
2. Where does everyones time spent on FFXI go when they're in a HNM ls?
I've seen lots of lvl75's in the game. (i've done searches, out of sheer curiosity to see how many there are) I often wonder... Where does the time go? Have they spent 8 hours a day doing nothing but lvling for the last year? Or once they're in these uber ls's do they still have as much fun as they did when they started? Or do they log on every day because they're affraid of being booted or of people giving them **** for not being there?.. next question...
3. What happens to the friends?
I can understand keeping battle plans and strategy secret, but shutting out old frieds to get make belive items seems silly and a bit caddy to me. (I appologise, I mean no offence. I realize that some mobs have extremly long spawn times, and you are spending real time to get them.) Do lvl75's have friends they talk to on the game still? Like close friends? Or is it all business business business? Is it about just being done with the game at that point or do people still take the time to /sit in a beautiful spot and enjoy the vanadiel sunset/sunrise with a couple people while chit-chatting? I don't really know how HNM ls's work, so I don't really know if what I'm feeling is validated. From what I've gathered it seems like everyones in a hurry to get the best equipment as fast as possable so it can end.
I can't picture FFXI without true friends. I've met some of the people I play with in RL, and it saddens me that now because they're lvl75 they won't even talk to me anymore. As stated earlier, they hardly even /wave... This game was built to be a social game, almost forcing you into making friends. But once you loose that, it's all just numbers and make belive, and the only person on earth who'd give a d@mn about how many times you've solo'd an IT++ or fought the gods, is you.
I'm sorry if i've offended anyone. I know some people are trying to break these FFXI social norms, and a big /cheer for them. I seriously respect that. If I ever become that kind of soul-less player, please by all means, come to my house and punch me in the face. Because thats pbbly the only thing that would give me a wake up call.
{take care} everyone, I hope my words inspired you at least a little bit. As for me, I'm going to go watch the sunrise on the beach, and smoke my last cigarette.
There's always room for one more. ^^
You're pal,
~Aetikin~ March 15, 2005
That being said, this whole situation scares me. Quite literally. I have a few questions to go thru while i rant. ^^
1. Do HNM ls's require you to be online every day?
Currently I'm galavanting around the country, going to colledge and helping with family matters (mostly pertaining to death ><) I could easily see where people would be unable to log on for days or even weeks. In that situation would they be kicked from the ls? Meaning are they constantly doing events/quests/battles every day where participation is mandatory? This leads me to my next question...
2. Where does everyones time spent on FFXI go when they're in a HNM ls?
I've seen lots of lvl75's in the game. (i've done searches, out of sheer curiosity to see how many there are) I often wonder... Where does the time go? Have they spent 8 hours a day doing nothing but lvling for the last year? Or once they're in these uber ls's do they still have as much fun as they did when they started? Or do they log on every day because they're affraid of being booted or of people giving them **** for not being there?.. next question...
3. What happens to the friends?
I can understand keeping battle plans and strategy secret, but shutting out old frieds to get make belive items seems silly and a bit caddy to me. (I appologise, I mean no offence. I realize that some mobs have extremly long spawn times, and you are spending real time to get them.) Do lvl75's have friends they talk to on the game still? Like close friends? Or is it all business business business? Is it about just being done with the game at that point or do people still take the time to /sit in a beautiful spot and enjoy the vanadiel sunset/sunrise with a couple people while chit-chatting? I don't really know how HNM ls's work, so I don't really know if what I'm feeling is validated. From what I've gathered it seems like everyones in a hurry to get the best equipment as fast as possable so it can end.
I can't picture FFXI without true friends. I've met some of the people I play with in RL, and it saddens me that now because they're lvl75 they won't even talk to me anymore. As stated earlier, they hardly even /wave... This game was built to be a social game, almost forcing you into making friends. But once you loose that, it's all just numbers and make belive, and the only person on earth who'd give a d@mn about how many times you've solo'd an IT++ or fought the gods, is you.
I'm sorry if i've offended anyone. I know some people are trying to break these FFXI social norms, and a big /cheer for them. I seriously respect that. If I ever become that kind of soul-less player, please by all means, come to my house and punch me in the face. Because thats pbbly the only thing that would give me a wake up call.
{take care} everyone, I hope my words inspired you at least a little bit. As for me, I'm going to go watch the sunrise on the beach, and smoke my last cigarette.
There's always room for one more. ^^
You're pal,
~Aetikin~ March 15, 2005
9 posts
I disagree, SirEagleStrike.
Now, me and you have come to very reasonable terms on FFXI, and hell, you are one damn good THF. You have my respect and friendship because of that, but I disagree with you in some aspects. Take these with a grain of salt.
You're wrong about some people, although seeming like bad guys, not being bad guys. I will not name names, I'm not here to beat on any one person. But one very famous LS leader, and I'm sure you know of who I speak, I have come to....seen in action. I don't care what kind of person he/she is in real life or in your LS, but he/she lost my utter respect for.
He/she, when things go wrong, yells at everyone else about it. One of my very good friends, a THF, just like you, and a damned good puller and a VERY good HNM LS member now with TH3 and insane skills, was pulling in his/her dynamis. When things went wrong because of a ***** up, the LS leader blamed my bud. And then, he/she proceeded to scream at the LS using several curse words about how it was "our ****ing fault".
I do not know if this HNM LS leader is a good person, I do not know how he/she runs the LS. I do know, however, that this HNM LS leader has let the game get to them. Not once, ONCE, did he/she accept responsibility for a ***** up, despite his/her bad directions, bad pulls, or simple mistakes. It was always someone else. Not to mention the insane rules and attitude he/she takes. "I'm better then you." Don't tell me I've mistaken this, I have SEEN this person, WORKED with them, and have come to KNOW them for this. There is no excuse, I don't care how damned famous you are, for thinking you are better, and for not accepting your mistakes.
Vancroft, on the other hand, I can respect. I come not to praise him, but to praise his work ethic, because I have known him for nearly a half year, if not more. I come not to praise his LS, but his selflessness: Not once has he ever talked down, not once has he ever done anything wrong to a member, not once has he blamed others for his mistakes. Kudos for Neorei, Januz, and Makoholic for me seeing them in the same context.
LoH, the fact is, certian HNM LS leaders HAVE let the game get to their heads. I do not care how many items they give away, how many AFs or ZM's they help with, it's personality towards ALL good people that matters....not just those in your LS. I respect the people mentioned above for this, and while they have had...difficulties with others in the past, they do not hold it deep, and would gladly make it up.
I'd prefer an HNM LS with someone who gives respect to all rather then to those who just "deserve" it.
-------------------------End rant------------
On the other hand, my predicament is different. The current LS I'm in atm is full of people I like, somewhat like what jklotros idealized. (Great post BTW) Good people, good friends, we help each other, but I'm at end game, and quite frankly, I too want to kill gods. The LS I'm in hunts HNMs from time to time *very rarely* and I really don't want to leave, because if I join an HNM LS I most likely won't be allowed in my current LS anymore (due to strict HNM LS rules). So for now, I've been working to try and make our LS into more HNM god oriented...I really want to fight them. =/ But I'm afraid that, like other LS', it will come down to the destruction of what this game -should- be about: Friendship and having fun. I'm worried that I may become that way too. But the moment that I look down upon others I want someone to slap me and remind me of the way that kinsmanship made this game good. Sometimes, some HNM LS' leaders are great men and women who turn this way and just forget, or just don't care anymore. I do think that with the right people, they can remember what it was like, but chances are, in the end, they will only be sucked farther in with the mindset.
In the end, it comes down to this:
Do you value helping people because they will then help you, or so they will be happy?
Do you value finding god items for fun and prosperity, or just so you can look really cool?
Do you value the respect of your peers, or simply the loyalty and their following of the rules?
And most of all....
Do you value what this game was meant to be?
FFXI isn't a job: People think that in the end, whoever has the most when he dies wins. No....its whoever had the most OF a life when he dies wins. So remember that, HNM LS leaders, that when you are getting pissed because you didn't get the pull, or because Kirin didn't drop that shiney osode, that it was journey, not the destination, that made the difference.
Respectfully yours,
Fxeni. Taru BLM, lvl 75, Shiva.
Now, me and you have come to very reasonable terms on FFXI, and hell, you are one damn good THF. You have my respect and friendship because of that, but I disagree with you in some aspects. Take these with a grain of salt.
You're wrong about some people, although seeming like bad guys, not being bad guys. I will not name names, I'm not here to beat on any one person. But one very famous LS leader, and I'm sure you know of who I speak, I have come to....seen in action. I don't care what kind of person he/she is in real life or in your LS, but he/she lost my utter respect for.
He/she, when things go wrong, yells at everyone else about it. One of my very good friends, a THF, just like you, and a damned good puller and a VERY good HNM LS member now with TH3 and insane skills, was pulling in his/her dynamis. When things went wrong because of a ***** up, the LS leader blamed my bud. And then, he/she proceeded to scream at the LS using several curse words about how it was "our ****ing fault".
I do not know if this HNM LS leader is a good person, I do not know how he/she runs the LS. I do know, however, that this HNM LS leader has let the game get to them. Not once, ONCE, did he/she accept responsibility for a ***** up, despite his/her bad directions, bad pulls, or simple mistakes. It was always someone else. Not to mention the insane rules and attitude he/she takes. "I'm better then you." Don't tell me I've mistaken this, I have SEEN this person, WORKED with them, and have come to KNOW them for this. There is no excuse, I don't care how damned famous you are, for thinking you are better, and for not accepting your mistakes.
Vancroft, on the other hand, I can respect. I come not to praise him, but to praise his work ethic, because I have known him for nearly a half year, if not more. I come not to praise his LS, but his selflessness: Not once has he ever talked down, not once has he ever done anything wrong to a member, not once has he blamed others for his mistakes. Kudos for Neorei, Januz, and Makoholic for me seeing them in the same context.
LoH, the fact is, certian HNM LS leaders HAVE let the game get to their heads. I do not care how many items they give away, how many AFs or ZM's they help with, it's personality towards ALL good people that matters....not just those in your LS. I respect the people mentioned above for this, and while they have had...difficulties with others in the past, they do not hold it deep, and would gladly make it up.
I'd prefer an HNM LS with someone who gives respect to all rather then to those who just "deserve" it.
-------------------------End rant------------
On the other hand, my predicament is different. The current LS I'm in atm is full of people I like, somewhat like what jklotros idealized. (Great post BTW) Good people, good friends, we help each other, but I'm at end game, and quite frankly, I too want to kill gods. The LS I'm in hunts HNMs from time to time *very rarely* and I really don't want to leave, because if I join an HNM LS I most likely won't be allowed in my current LS anymore (due to strict HNM LS rules). So for now, I've been working to try and make our LS into more HNM god oriented...I really want to fight them. =/ But I'm afraid that, like other LS', it will come down to the destruction of what this game -should- be about: Friendship and having fun. I'm worried that I may become that way too. But the moment that I look down upon others I want someone to slap me and remind me of the way that kinsmanship made this game good. Sometimes, some HNM LS' leaders are great men and women who turn this way and just forget, or just don't care anymore. I do think that with the right people, they can remember what it was like, but chances are, in the end, they will only be sucked farther in with the mindset.
In the end, it comes down to this:
Do you value helping people because they will then help you, or so they will be happy?
Do you value finding god items for fun and prosperity, or just so you can look really cool?
Do you value the respect of your peers, or simply the loyalty and their following of the rules?
And most of all....
Do you value what this game was meant to be?
FFXI isn't a job: People think that in the end, whoever has the most when he dies wins. No....its whoever had the most OF a life when he dies wins. So remember that, HNM LS leaders, that when you are getting pissed because you didn't get the pull, or because Kirin didn't drop that shiney osode, that it was journey, not the destination, that made the difference.
Respectfully yours,
Fxeni. Taru BLM, lvl 75, Shiva.
6 posts
Lets just compare the differences between this other hnmls leader and Vancroft. Vancroft's ls will always be small time... ALWAYS.
That other hnmls leader you speak of, her LS has amounted to something. Even though she is too harsh and strict with her members sometimes, they are a major force on Shiva for a reason. She pushes us to a higher level of gameplay, a higher level of skill. You may think she is too strict, but that is just another style of leadership that you don't like in your own personal opinion. It's all about finding an ls with a leader that leads with a style that you like and are comfortable with. If she is as bad as you say, why haven't her members left already? There must be a reason they are sticking around.
All great hnmls leaders push their ls hard. What about Nela who even the japanese people call a dictator? What about hankun? don't we call him **** for a reason? Both ls leaders push their people hard, but in all of these ls there are people who are fiercly loyal to their leaders and look at what they have accomplished. Their personalities have the ability and the charisma to cause great hatred by the people who are against them and fierce loyalty to the people who are with them.
Whenever someone talks about which ls dominates the na hnmls scene, which names come up? hankun's dark legacy. When someone talks about who dominates the na sky scene... Chewy's xtreme. When someone talks about what are some good and big na hnmls to join which names come up? Linknard's nanoface, Ryunoire's EternalKnights ... all powerful ls with strong leaders. When was the last time you heard anyone saying anything about vancroft or his ls? He may be a nice guy but him and his ls will always be small time.
That other hnmls leader you speak of, her LS has amounted to something. Even though she is too harsh and strict with her members sometimes, they are a major force on Shiva for a reason. She pushes us to a higher level of gameplay, a higher level of skill. You may think she is too strict, but that is just another style of leadership that you don't like in your own personal opinion. It's all about finding an ls with a leader that leads with a style that you like and are comfortable with. If she is as bad as you say, why haven't her members left already? There must be a reason they are sticking around.
All great hnmls leaders push their ls hard. What about Nela who even the japanese people call a dictator? What about hankun? don't we call him **** for a reason? Both ls leaders push their people hard, but in all of these ls there are people who are fiercly loyal to their leaders and look at what they have accomplished. Their personalities have the ability and the charisma to cause great hatred by the people who are against them and fierce loyalty to the people who are with them.
Whenever someone talks about which ls dominates the na hnmls scene, which names come up? hankun's dark legacy. When someone talks about who dominates the na sky scene... Chewy's xtreme. When someone talks about what are some good and big na hnmls to join which names come up? Linknard's nanoface, Ryunoire's EternalKnights ... all powerful ls with strong leaders. When was the last time you heard anyone saying anything about vancroft or his ls? He may be a nice guy but him and his ls will always be small time.
I don't understand why Uchihaclan will always be small time? It's a nice linkshell with lots of good people in it who seem to be doing a lot of stuff. How can you so surely predict their future?
9 posts
GeeQue, you misunderstand. I did not mean to insult this LS leader. I wish no quarrel, no fight, no bitter hatred betwixt us. I spoke merely why this leader lost my respect: nothing more. It's a matter of morals, I never said that my morals are as the game should be played. But as for Uchicha never becoming a big time HNM LS, you may very well be right. It wouldn't suprise me one bit. I would be glad if it did one day become that LS, however.
With that in mind, I disagree that you need to be so...strict to become so important. Again, I wish to mention Neorei as a person (and god, if you wanna rag on me about it, do so in game, not on him -_-)...he's never been strict to his LS. True, he is at times....somewhat a lawmaker, but I can't blame him for it. And while, yes, his LS may never be as big time as the others, you think that matters to me? In the end, it comes down to the individual: If you want to join an LS of your higher recognition like you said, GeeQue, I won't hate you, blame you, or say you were wrong. By all means, go ahead. But I wish to stick in a place where kinsmanship comes first...is there something wrong with that?
If you wish to speak with me further, I urge you to do so in game. I don't want to turn this board into a flame, but if you want to bury me in flames on game, at least do it there so we don't have to anger others.
With that in mind, I disagree that you need to be so...strict to become so important. Again, I wish to mention Neorei as a person (and god, if you wanna rag on me about it, do so in game, not on him -_-)...he's never been strict to his LS. True, he is at times....somewhat a lawmaker, but I can't blame him for it. And while, yes, his LS may never be as big time as the others, you think that matters to me? In the end, it comes down to the individual: If you want to join an LS of your higher recognition like you said, GeeQue, I won't hate you, blame you, or say you were wrong. By all means, go ahead. But I wish to stick in a place where kinsmanship comes first...is there something wrong with that?
If you wish to speak with me further, I urge you to do so in game. I don't want to turn this board into a flame, but if you want to bury me in flames on game, at least do it there so we don't have to anger others.
GeeQue:
do you know no one like nela in that ls? they stay ther because they have no where to go to get items.
they can't switch to apos or trimuit (spell) because jp ls rarely recuit rival LS people and they see it as a betray and once you switch LS, they will think you would do the same again. rikako is a rare case. not many ppl can switch LS like her. basically jp HNM ls won't recuit rival's ls member.
do you know no one like nela in that ls? they stay ther because they have no where to go to get items.
they can't switch to apos or trimuit (spell) because jp ls rarely recuit rival LS people and they see it as a betray and once you switch LS, they will think you would do the same again. rikako is a rare case. not many ppl can switch LS like her. basically jp HNM ls won't recuit rival's ls member.
6 posts
I don't want this to turn into a flame at all and yes I agree with the fact that it's all on the style of leadership by which you prefer. Some people require harsh regulations in order to play their best while others need only guidance. This is true in real life as well as in ffxi. Laws differ between nations for this very reason. Democracy and communism and dicatorship exists in this world for this very reason. Which is the best? No one can say. Neorei's ls seems to suit you well but I'm sure that there are others out there who think even Neorei is too strict on his/her ls wouldn't you agree? It's all on the individual opinion.
It takes a certain kind of person with a certain kind of personality with a certain kind of flare to inspire others to follow him/her. There is a strong correlation between strong ls leaders and a powerful ls. You can pretty much see the correlation by ranking the na hnmls on the server. I won't put any ranks up since I don't want to offend anyone but it is very clear who is #1 and who is top 3 and who is top 5 and who is top 10. I don't think anyone will argue if I said that Uchiha ls doesn't even rank in top 10... no offense intended. Some ls leaders might be strict and he/she might go off on people but she gets the job done and that's the way I like it.
It takes a certain kind of person with a certain kind of personality with a certain kind of flare to inspire others to follow him/her. There is a strong correlation between strong ls leaders and a powerful ls. You can pretty much see the correlation by ranking the na hnmls on the server. I won't put any ranks up since I don't want to offend anyone but it is very clear who is #1 and who is top 3 and who is top 5 and who is top 10. I don't think anyone will argue if I said that Uchiha ls doesn't even rank in top 10... no offense intended. Some ls leaders might be strict and he/she might go off on people but she gets the job done and that's the way I like it.
Quote:
I don't want this to turn into a flame at all and yes I agree with the fact that it's all on the style of leadership by which you prefer. Some people require harsh regulations in order to play their best while others need only guidance. This is true in real life as well as in ffxi. Laws differ between nations for this very reason. Democracy and communism and dicatorship exists in this world for this very reason. Which is the best? No one can say. Neorei's ls seems to suit you well but I'm sure that there are others out there who think even Neorei is too strict on his/her ls wouldn't you agree? It's all on the individual opinion.
It takes a certain kind of person with a certain kind of personality with a certain kind of flare to inspire others to follow him/her. There is a strong correlation between strong ls leaders and a powerful ls. You can pretty much see the correlation by ranking the na hnmls on the server. I won't put any ranks up since I don't want to offend anyone but it is very clear who is #1 and who is top 3 and who is top 5 and who is top 10. I don't think anyone will argue if I said that Uchiha ls doesn't even rank in top 10... no offense intended. Some ls leaders might be strict and he/she might go off on people but she gets the job done and that's the way I like it.
It takes a certain kind of person with a certain kind of personality with a certain kind of flare to inspire others to follow him/her. There is a strong correlation between strong ls leaders and a powerful ls. You can pretty much see the correlation by ranking the na hnmls on the server. I won't put any ranks up since I don't want to offend anyone but it is very clear who is #1 and who is top 3 and who is top 5 and who is top 10. I don't think anyone will argue if I said that Uchiha ls doesn't even rank in top 10... no offense intended. Some ls leaders might be strict and he/she might go off on people but she gets the job done and that's the way I like it.
it is also in management terms that a technican need constant monitoring and need your boss 24/7 to make sure you are doing fine job. the more junior you are, the mre true this is.
the senior ones only need a general direction, and the more respondibility and reward they have in jobs.
the best la in shiva, TTD is working on modern management, enpowering sub-leaders and it is still the best and richest. nela ls btw actually have less money than me regarding to rikako 1 year before.
how successful a LS should be judge the same way as companies. small companies can't earn the same turnover as big companies, but they are still successful. judge on the past history of yourself and don't judge on someone else' standard. a small LS can also be successful.
Edited, Wed Mar 16 10:45:37 2005 by Fiorina
Ok just thought id throw in my 2 cents here and stick up for Vancroft.
By no means will Uchiha clan remain "small time". They are simply rebuilding. A ls doesnt change overnight. Ask any ls lead how long it took them to establish the LS.
Vancroft is a terrific leader. For the short time i was in his LS i was treated with respect and trust. Just two days after joining i was helping lead the HNM hunts. The only reason i left was because i went through a time when i was planning on quiting the game.
My point is Van is a great leader and deserves more credit. I felt appreciated and needed, and thats something that i think alot of "top" ls leads have forgotten.
By no means will Uchiha clan remain "small time". They are simply rebuilding. A ls doesnt change overnight. Ask any ls lead how long it took them to establish the LS.
Vancroft is a terrific leader. For the short time i was in his LS i was treated with respect and trust. Just two days after joining i was helping lead the HNM hunts. The only reason i left was because i went through a time when i was planning on quiting the game.
My point is Van is a great leader and deserves more credit. I felt appreciated and needed, and thats something that i think alot of "top" ls leads have forgotten.
9 posts
As far as loyalty goes, my loyalty is contrary to other LS'.
Vancroft -is- a great guy in my mind. He invited me into the LS, no strings attached, long ago, and I've known enough things about him to realize that he is a good guy with a good heart in real life too. That has earned my respect and my loyalty. He did not need to become any strict guy who wanted to be the best of the best to do it either. You defend your LS leader, I'll defend mine. Our reasons for the loyalty may be different, but in the end, the loyalty itself is the same.
It's become a personal note that I am extremely honored to be one of the LS' semi-whatever-you-wanna-call-it-leaders and that Vancroft asks me for advice sometimes.
He values his LS, his members, their opinions, and just....who they are. -That- was what made it worthwhile, and that is why he has my respect and loyalty.
P.S. School sucks. *Typing from a school computer* -_-
Vancroft -is- a great guy in my mind. He invited me into the LS, no strings attached, long ago, and I've known enough things about him to realize that he is a good guy with a good heart in real life too. That has earned my respect and my loyalty. He did not need to become any strict guy who wanted to be the best of the best to do it either. You defend your LS leader, I'll defend mine. Our reasons for the loyalty may be different, but in the end, the loyalty itself is the same.
It's become a personal note that I am extremely honored to be one of the LS' semi-whatever-you-wanna-call-it-leaders and that Vancroft asks me for advice sometimes.
He values his LS, his members, their opinions, and just....who they are. -That- was what made it worthwhile, and that is why he has my respect and loyalty.
P.S. School sucks. *Typing from a school computer* -_-
Scholar
33 posts
If you're looking for an HNM ls, here's a good list to start off with.
http://www.theorderls.com/bigkill_search.php?serverid=25&server_lookup=Search
http://www.theorderls.com/bigkill_search.php?serverid=25&server_lookup=Search
Scholar
19 posts
I wouldn't call TTD the best in shiva.. many ls have the power to kill what they kill, just because they magically win every pull for 1.5 years ^^; (hmm wonder how..) doesnt make them the best.
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