my question isFollow

no, the description you posted says it all "no sign of hgiher brain fucntion", people born with brain damage still show signs of higher brain function although they will not be "smart" in most cases. Not in the sense tyhat they are of lower inteligence but in the sense that they cannot function like a "normal" human. Vegetative states are as you can tell when the brain doesnt function at a higher level at all like is the case here

no, the description you posted says it all "no sign of hgiher brain fucntion", people born with brain damage still show signs of higher brain function although they will not be "smart" in most cases. Not in the sense tyhat they are of lower inteligence but in the sense that they cannot function like a "normal" human. Vegetative states are as you can tell when the brain doesnt function at a higher level at all like is the case here

Well first of all, a person in a 'persistent vegitative state' (brain dead) is completely different than someone who is 'brain damaged' or is mentally handicapped.. the latter two can actually still respond to stimuli (like sound, touch, or pain). The vegitative person can't.

Of course all I know about this case is what I've read, I don't know these people personally. And this is all just my opinion.

To me, it seems the thing they are trying to figure out is who's wishes to honor... the husband says she told him she never would've wanted to live like this, but her parents want her to stay on life support. So since she's unable to speak for herself, the courts are unsure who to go to next for the answer: her husband, or her parents.

She was only 26 when this happened to her.. her husband apparently was the only person she discussed end-of-life issues with. Lesson to learn here is that you're never to young to make out a living will... I've had one since I was 18. I think the politicians who have been involved with this case have gone a little overboard and are missing the real issue.

I work with people like this every day.. when you know there's no hope of recovery, it's really depressing to see family members come in and convince themselves that their loved one is improving... I mean, what can you say to them? And the husband I truly feel sorry for, trying to do what his wife wanted, and then having to fight with her family and the media making him out to be heartless. I don't know what my husband would do in a situation like that.

If they're going to let her die peacefully, then withdrawing her food, hydration, and medication is the only real way to do it. They will keep her comfortable, relieve her pain if she has any (which she wouldn't be able to communicate anyway), and let her die in peace. I don't know about you, but I couldn't imagine a better way to die; going out slowly, surrounded by family and friends. Most people never get to say goodbye to the people they love, but here... her family has that chance.

I seriously doubt it will change much in future healthcare, besides maybe having a clearer definition of the phrase "persistent vegitative state." The biggest thing I hope it will change is the number of people with living wills or power of attourney... something that clearly and legally states who makes decisions for you if you aren't able to. Anyone can get it, it's not expensive. Everyone thinks they'll never be in a situation like this, but it's possible.

Does allowing her to die change the value of human life? Absolutely not. To me, valuing human life includes not just keeping a person alive and healthy, but also respecting their opinions and beliefs, and honoring their wishes. Nurses and physicians have to take this into account! We're not just cells to keep alive, we have minds too. And if you decided you don't ever want to be kept alive on life support, you'd want your family to respect that decision too, even if it was hard for them.

Like I said, this is just my opinion, and I'm not trying to argue or anything (the media has been doing that enough for everyone). So... please don't flame me if you don't agree with what I said.

Edited: Due to the fact Glitter edited her above statement, therefor mine makes no sense. Glitter wrote above before she edited: quote: "The Husband is just greedy and wants her to die so he can collect the insurance money and give it to his new family."


Wow Glitter, I did not know that you knew the husband personally. You saying that he just wants her to die and collect the insurance money, must mean you talked to him and he told you this right?, or is it just an opionion of yours?. I think maybe he also had hope of recovery and after a few years he realized it was never going to happen, so he brought up the fact of her telling him that she never wanted to live this way (as I believe most of us would feel, at least I would.) I see some people believe that it is against God to take aways her tubes and let her go to her final resting place, but isn't playing God in the first place to keep her alive with the feeding tubes?, a few hundred years ago if this happened to someone they would have died shortly after and that was God's will, and now 15 years later she is still living on like support with no chance of recovery (as far as the docotors say). This is just my opinion of course, but thought I would share it.

Edited, Wed Mar 23 09:57:37 2005 by LionsFan

I agree it is dispicable, and should not be "The" media topic of the month. However, i also think that some good "May" come from this. Maybe, just maybe, as DagnyTaggart said, more people will have living wills. I also hope, that they will make a clear definition of what a " persistent Vegetative State" means. I also think that although it is a complete intrusion on these people lives, that it just might throw a little perspective to people. People get so wrapped up in "The now" part of life, we never stop to enjoy what we have. Seeing things as horrible as this might sink in to some people, and make them realize what life is really about. Although this is a terrible way for them to realize it, it is one positive out of a negative.




This is the part of this situation that makes me sick. How can you starve someone? I can see maybe injecting some poison, or medicating them so much there body shuts down, but starving? Whats worse, is that a judge decided this was ok for them to do. I remeber back to doctor kavorkian (sp?), people were paying him to poison family members, who were in similar situations. To me, if i was in her postion, i wouldnt want to be starved to death, i would want to be taken out very quickly.

******Sad story dont read if your emotional******

My wifes father was diagnosed with brain cancer. They decided to operate, and while operating, they took i guess a little too much brain, because he could not longer speak. He knew what he wanted to say, and could think fairly well, but he could not speak. He tried and tried and tried, till he finally gave up and never tried again. About 8 months after surgery he died. He eventually was on so much medication, that not only could he not tspeak, but couldnt do much of anything else.

The point to me writing this, is that if i knew that brain surgery would give me only 8 months more to live, and would make my life hell for those 8 months, no one in the world would be able to convince me to get it done. What good is dragging out a horrible painful life for 8 extra months? I would much rather go sooner without all the treatments, and crap to go through.

I kinda feel the same for this poor lady. IF she does understand whats going on (which the doctors say she doesnt), she might want to pass. But without written proof, how could a judge grant them the ability to starve her? So i guess what im saying is i cant beleive someone could grant them the right to "off" this lady, without something in writting.

Id also like to mention, that more likely then not, the husband is so far in debt trying to take care of her, that insurance money will be gone as soon as he gets it. Unless he or his family is extremly rich, most medical coverages have a maximum life time pay out. 1-2 mil is a standard, and if shes been on life support for 15 years, i can guarantee you thats been long used up. Not to mention, that health insurance 15 years ago, had quite different caps and pricing and such.

It is very difficult to put yourself in the postition of the husband. Parnets have this natural life long love for their children, but spouses, have a different type of love. I am sure he loves her, but his life is basically over so long as she is alive. He cant really do much, but take care of her, see her, and work. Im not saying this because i agree, but the fact is, that people are selfish. How long should he be burdened with taking care of a lost cause? Again i dont agree, but i can certainly understand, how this would eventually wear someone out so bad, that they just want to be done with it. That they just want to be able to move on with their life, and try to forget about all the stuff that happened. I cant imagine how difficult that would be honestly, and i certainly feel bad for him (and the rest fo the family as well).

Anyways, ive rambled on long enough about this, i could go on for days and days, but i wont.

For anyone with any kind of faith, include these people in whatever communications you have with your higher being.

I think that was "Politically correct"?

Forgive me for not knowing WTF you're talking about... but for ONCE could you make a topic on the FINAL FANTASY SHIVA BOARDS that could ACTUALLY BE about Shiva?

Just a thought...


Edit: For the idiots that can't take a joke... this was supposed to be a joke. THIS IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited, Wed Mar 23 18:52:36 2005 by CrayolaInBastok

I'm sorry you saw no humor in my comment. But for the majority of us that know Glitter and her posts, we all think they're stupid and don't make sense and I can swear than at least 80% that post on the forums can agree that she goes off.

If you don't like my post or whatever please stfu...Its your fault for reading it and if you dont like it shame on you, if it doesnt have to do with anything you've said then dont read it its as simple as that.

Just a thawt.

I wasn't verbally attacking anyone... do you NOT see the humor. OMG get a hobby!

actually, crayola's just snippy. i'm the atagonistic one.

i'm no doctor, but i am pretty certain i can read a brain scan and a medical chart to some degree of aptitude. mrs. s. has left the building. the main part of her brain that defines her as a person and regulates most autonomic functions is gone. in computer geek terms her cpu's fried and turned from silicon to glass.

what bothers me the most is how politicians are falling all over themselves to ***** this issue to score petty political points with their core voters.... then again, tom delay, bill frist, and brothers bush, nothing surprises me from those first-class partisan whoremonkeys. they are trying to **** on 200 years of state-rights and personal freedoms with their silly pandering for votes.

anyhoo, since i highly doubt any of us have been in a situation like this before, we are really in no position to judge anyone.

let her go peacefully.