EK LOTB serketFollow

Not that I want to argue with you or anything, but that post on the VNBoards didnt post itself..

These HNM rules are posted in many public forums and able to be read, like i said, the issue is done. HNM rules dont pertain to NMs, only HNMs. I agree it sucks when a NM is stolen from a a bst, but they arent on the magnitude of rewards that can help a ls, or grant a large portion of gil. And HNM LSs obey their own rules, its a server-wide policy. Every HNM ls treats these rules the same or they get smacked down, and smacked down hard by all the others, because without rules there is no organization/fun. Another ls DID claim it, but they let it go yellow to give it back to this ls. If items dropped, HNM LSs have before and will continue giving the items to the correct owners/claimers of that mob. Im not here to argue that. Like i said, it was a simple mistake, its over, you can let it go, no one from EK harbors ill feelings towards you guys. as you said when you said

these LSs wouldnt do that, and if it did happen, the items would be given. HNMs are a lot more serious than any normal NM, we respect these rules or there is serious trouble. If you, as a person continue to think in the "" way, your just going to have more trouble towards yourself, and i wish you the best, but i follow the rules so i can just have fun and enjoy the game. Thats the real reason why we didnt argue, we just want to play the game and enjoy it



To argue that, i only have to say that no one from EK every had a fit about this issue. Ryunoire understood what she said when she made the post... its you who doesnt understand the rules, it doesnt matter if it looks like the fight is going to be lost, unless you see everyone die, its not right to make that decision. When dealing with HNMs you, for the most part need several people. Not everyone can spend all their time doing that, so often teams will be sent to claim a mob, then wait for re-inforcements. Or as with our situation, the people there were fighting coffer mobs and happened to make the claim, so people left from jueno to come help. Kiting can buy time to way for re-inforcements to come, but not if its interupted by people that don understand that fact. We arent trying to discredit your ls, we have no problems with you.

the last thing i will reply to is


You should do more research, the HNM lses got together and made these rules LONG long ago and do have them posted on many public forums for anyone to see.

I'm not trying to bash you Warlord Lefein Scholar, i'm just replying to your comments, this is in no way a personal attack on you, i'd just like to clear up these issues, so we can all just go on with our lives. I enjoy playing this game a lot, i like all the jobs in the game... except drgs... nm thats a inside ls joke, but honestly i'd just like to see issues like this happen less. No one was at fault, it was just a simple mistake, there is no need to drag this on, so everyone please just enjoy the game, have fun, and have a good day.

~Zhaneel

Funny, all I hear are rules blah follow blah everywhere blah...

not one link..

not one website..

nothin..

Noone let us in on the circle jerk. Probably because some of us have lives outside of FF and didnt shoot straight for high level content.

Now that people are catching up with the curve you are lambasting people for "not following the rules"? Come on, seriously. Noone wants to be mean to each other and if anyone actually cared to read my post you'd see that I'm all for having some kind of protocol. But this whole thing happened because ONE PERSON TOOK ON A GOD and then people played a bunch of claim games..

A link to these rules please?

An open debate about the rules?

Anything?

Oh, go ahead and rate me down again. It's alot harder to play with a silly button than it is to actually come up with the rules everyone is bitc[/u]hing about not being followed here. Don't mind me I'm just a twit that doesn't know what he's talking about... right?

ooh, extra bonus kudos to anyone who can not only find where these rules are stated but where everyone on Shiva agreed to obey them! I'm just saying, take a little Business Law and you'll learn about this crazy thing called a contract and who it binds and how.

Edited, Tue Apr 5 17:37:41 2005 by Lefein

Here is some basics - and I say basics - because I am a relatively new comer to the whole HNM business. There are, I'm sure, people that are more qualified to explain...but I hope this would help weed out issues:

1) Claiming
When you are camping and if the HNM pops, at first it's fair game. As long as you're not using voke bots or unfair techniques (such as pulling lower level mobs around you to purposely negate /targetnpc macros) you can go about spamming as much pull macros you'd like. Dia, Flash, Provoke, Charm, Chi-Blast, these are some fast ways to claim.

2) Unclaimed...or...Tactic?
There are different ways to fight things for different HNMs, but at times, the HNM will go unclaimed, during the fight. This happens when the mob is kited (pulled around the area). Kiting is typically done when:
A) the LS needs more time so that all of their members can come help fight it
B) needs to set up properly (you will see people moving between allied PTs)
Either way, when Kiting, depending on the time since the last provoke and last attack on the HNM, the name of the mob may turn 'yellow' indicating not claimed...HOWEVER, if the mob is still chasing the Kiter (usually a PLD) then it is still considered claimed by that LS (or Alliance).

It might go unclaimed if it is slept or bound. Hard to do, but HNMs can be slept/bound by a well decked out RDM or BLM. After a certain time, the HNM may go yellow. This will happen if a claim is made but there is a need to clear the area for the big fight. Look around to see what they are doing. If there's one RDM or a BLM that's not moving, but everybody else is engaged with other mobs in the area, then yes, that must be the case.

It will also go unclaimed if the claiming LS is there with 2 alliance. If one alliance is down (out of MP, people hurting), instead of switching people in and out on the fly into one main alliance, they may just let backup alliance take it while the main alliance rests. In this case, they will switch claims between their own LS alliances. Mob will go yellow...do not claim it.

3) Crowding
When the fight begins, try to stay far away from the fighting. The LS will typically have 12 or more people there to help take on the mob. This already causes enough lag, and if non-LS people gather around, it will cause sever lag, causing the claimer LS members to possibly D/C. This can result in death of the claimer LS members, and mob to go unclaimed. This is a big no-no.

4) Oops, I claimed it.
Sometimes if you are spamming vokes, or if you have members that are unaware of these rules, may claim the kited HNM away. The right thing to do is say, "I'm sorry, it was an accident" and immedeately disengage. NEVER CALL FOR HELP! The disengaged mob will be reclaimed by the original claimer.

5) Um..wipe out?!
So you start seeing all of the original claiming alliance wipe out. Rare at Serket, but can happen at some of the more challenging HNMs. The thing is....once you get used to seeing the same faces at these camps, you will know who the LS leader is, and they will typically be there if it is a hard HNM. So just calmly once you start people dropping like flies. (And once the tank falls, people will start to fall fast)

Uchipu>>Is it fair to claim now? I am from EK.
ClaimingLS>>yea, we're done >:(

That should do it. Or, if you're in doubt, claim it. Wait to see if you get any tells asking you to release. Then release.

Uchipu>>I claimed it!!
Ryunoire>>Uchi, let it go. HoCD is still at it.
Uchipu>>k

6) Jabs and Jeers
If you claimed the mob, even if you did it cleanly, be ready to get jeered from other LSs who lost the claim. Ryunoire is very much against this, and I would be surprised if any of the EK members actually would do this kind of thing. I don't know about other LSs so, be prepared for random jerks to send you silly, disruptive tells. Try to ignore it, and avoid shouting matches...that's so not classy.

JeeringLS>>u stupid WHM! noob!! u so gonna die! what you think ur doing? u suk lolololol

(uchipu takes a mental note to check jeeringls and report to Ryunoire)

7) Helping
Unless asked to do so, do not help members of claimer LS. Throwing out a Cure or a Raise can get you hate, or get you within AOE range. The claiming LS will then feel responsible for your troubles (death or otherwise) and can distract them from fighting. Also, spamming cure spells can get you hate, and the HNM might come your way, so you run away with the HNM in tow...even though you were being nice, it can be seen as your attempt to steal...(cuz people do this vs. RMTers alot) so it's best that you let the claiming LS deal with their own Cures and Raises. Additionally some status ailment fixing spells, like Paralyna, when spammed can get you hate. HNMs are more touchy-feely than EXP mobs when it comes to hate, so again, don't worry - let them figure it out.

8) HNMs
Any NM that gives you a title, or have a drawning-in move should be considered HNM (I think...I still don't what makes one a HNM and others not...) Gods, are HNM, but not all HNM are gods. There's only 5 Gods - Seiryu, Byakko, Genbu, Suzaku and Kirin. HNMs are Tiamat, Vrtra, Steelface, Serket, Lord of Onzozo, etc...even though Tiamat is considerably stronger than Steelface, they still belong in the same HNM group.

9) Issues
If issues do occur, simply direct issues to your LS leader, or whoever is leading the event. Ask before you start sending out random tells. Typically there can be 3 or 4 different LSs there camping. So you may think it's XYZ LS that wronged you, but it could have been ABC LS. So make sure you find out which LS, the leader (or in charge person) and the actual member name that wronged you. Like most court cases or police reports, getting your facts straight is important if you are going to make a charge.

10) So you get the drop?!
Some LSs don't mind you asking and will tell you. Some do mind. If you ask once, and if it's not answered, don't spam your question. Ever get annoyed when the same telemarketer calls you everyday? It's kind of same way... if you get no answer, leave it alone.

I hope this will help anybody who is looking into getting some peice of action, and I hope this would make this competitive sport a little bit more fun.

Happy Hunting.

Typically it won't happen where someone /tells someone else 'are you done?' if the whole ls in the /assist-ing vacinity is wiped out, or escapes (and you CONFIRM this) its an open claim, BUT to prevent people from trying to steal to get the first shot at it, usually its agreed that a leader from each ls, or party /random for the next go at it.

ex:
ClaimingLS member was defeated by BigHNM.
Dice roll! Ryunoire rolls a 643.
Dice roll! OtherLSleader rolls a 912.
Ryunoire: That's you, G/l guys.

uchi also added some things that are ls moreso thatn hnm rules like dont disclose drops, etc. but overall, i'd say she did a very thurough job making the unwritten rules... written...

Its general stuff... common courtesies moreso than rules, but this is what people expect when you're camping, nonetheless.

I'm sure some arbitration will go in the near future, but we are still figuring out stuff ourselves.

Our LS did it more as an event than an HNMLS type of deal. It's sad that there was some confusion. We'll do our best to not step on peoples toes in the future. Some of the stuff about holding an NM until the LS can come seems kinda odd but practical in some senses.

I guess it would also helped if people knew what HoCD was doing when they voked it off you.. To a lot of the Bsts that were there it looked like a free for all on Serket. It was just a really messy understanding as it turns out.

We, of course, have a much bigger problem on our hands. Although whatever was said on our LS chat may or may not be agreeable, I'm pretty sure at some time or another something has been said on everyones LS that could be misconstrued if made public. We obviously have a traitor amongst us and it's sad that they chose a golden moment like a misunderstanding about HNM claims to make themself known. I guess everyone got caught up in that crossfire, including you Ryu.

I, personally, apologize for getting wrapped up in the drama. For what it's worth even if it doesnt seem that way... I do try to avoid this stuff. Understand that my loyalty is to my linkshell and friends.

Cray -


Everything about your first sentences speaks for your entire post on the matter.

That's all I wanted to say because my LS members have already said what needs to be heard. <3 EK <3

As far as I know the reason that it's never been posted that a all-Bst alliance couldn't take down a HNM is because a lot of people know all it would do is get thair rating dropped to almost 0 by all the dedicated bst and serve as nothing but a flame war (Kinda like how this whole Serket mess has turned out.)

It's not really arrogance, Its just that leveling for as long as we have you tend to know what you can take. We all know that it's the pet that gives us the power to do what we do. A lot of Non-Bst people don't understand that and in most cases it shows in game more then on the boards.

On a side note: it's nice that some rules have been posted so that in future when our LS hunts HNM's that we can take this into consideration.

Now I can't guarentee that all of our LS is going to follow it, especially the lower ended ones that might only need 6 or so people to fight it out There are people out there that are really jaded with all the troubles bst's can have with parties. I know I've had a few cases myself where I'm camping in a spot with some friends and other parties come in, camp right on top of us, and tell us to release our pets down the hall or something like that. In fact thats probably where most of that jaded stuff came from on those screen shots. Hell I'll admit there was probably some nasty things that I said as well that were in the screens, and other things said as a joke that would have really pissed off a lot of people if it went public :P

Now generally with me, I either move along or release my pets down the hall. I tend to be like that, I don't like stepping on peoples toes unless it's something worth standing up for, and I always appologise to anyone who has a problem with a released pet (hey I'm not perfect, sometimes my released pets do get away from me while I'm resting)

As for the Serket thing: all I'm going to say is No comment as it's been dealth with

Ususally it happens something like this:

Linkshell wipes out.
Mob goes yellow, then someone claims and starts fighting.
Then a LS leader /randoms, and others follow.
If the team fighting the nm loses random, they'll escape or try to let claim go yellow.

Generally, JPs are ALOT more respectful of these rules than NAs Hks and EUs. And it seems that JPs find it kinda 'cheap' to pull a mob at anything less than 100% HP, like they're not getting the full experience of it. So usually when its a really big HNM if someone wipes out there is a period of time when that mob goes yellow... and recovers all of its hp. Then you'll see the leaders /random for it. Its alot nicer when things go that way, but with the greediness of many campers these days, its hard to follow by some of the rules without getting screwed yourself.

I also wanted to add, i'm not the authority on these rules, no one is, but the HNMls leaders generally try to make sure these are upheld because if their not, you literally see hundreds of people in garilage crowded in one little area around Serket spamming voke and lagging everyone else out while trying to steal a claim.

and the last thing I'm going to say here is i nresponse to this...



I think you're a little paranoid. I can't speak for everyone but I don't have any problems with BSTs. Not many people care what type of job you are, and alot of people have multiple jobs to 75. BSTs are not victims, they're just people at a computer like everyone else. Sure I've been trained by BSTs trying to zone. I've been trained by PLDs, RNGs, just about every other job too. And I've trained myself also. **cough**Ro'Meave everyday CHOO CHOO!!**cough** People are people and **** happenes to everyone. But seriously I really don't think anyone hates bsts, and if they do, its one or two people specifically, not every bst they see.

But seriously, I highly doubt that a silly rating would affect what someone wanted to say if people truly hated Beastmasters.

You guys feel like you have something to prove? Go for it, just try to be respectful of others as you would want them to be respectful of you.

Everyone's different, not everyone handles things the same way. But I honestly believe that 90% of shivans are good people who will respect you, as they would want you to respect them.

That's all, I'm done.

.......
Wrong thread :P


Edited, Wed Apr 6 10:51:04 2005 by kenshynOnShiva

...

lmao.

/fume hiki

**grabs carbuncle by the tail an whirrs him around over my head**

YOU CAN RUN BUT YOU CAN'T HIDE...

OH **** THIS IS A PUBLIC BOARD ><

**Sheepishly hide carbucle behind her back**

**mumbles** Damn you hiki...