Hello many Shiva members.
Many of you already know what this is about, Some of you do not.
On Monday, some members left (list of about 10) Vindicated and created another beginning linkshell on a deceitful endeavor. That is not what this post is about. It’s their choice. That’s how it goes. We still have over 50 members and this event has pulled us even closer so that’s fine. It is clear that the people left want to be there for the right reasons and it brings unity.
The ISSUE of this post:
The conflict here lies: One of the members, Rokugen, actually did not leave until I believe Tuesday because he did not want to hand over the LS Kirin Osode.
Our LS has a policy and stipulation, with Osode and Noble’s Tunic, it is the linkshell’s. This item is not ex/rare and can be sold. Anyone who wanted to be in line for any of these items have agreed to this. It is very clear on our forums about the rule, no loophole, no gray areas, no what if’s and no way around it. There is no fine print. Either you agree or you do not. But we expect you to be honorable and not be a thief. We expect someone to uphold their word.
Rokugen, the samurai, has agreed to this a while back. In fact, he was one of the ones who were very strong on wanting to enforce it with our whms and noble’s tunic. We never have had a problem with untrustworthiness or theft as far as this goes in the past. All members have been honourable….except Rokugen. Because of his thieving actions, we will now have to change things.
He has stated on teamspeak conversation and its recorded, I will upload if need be, “***** my friends I want my baby!â€
Also many fraps have been taken of him saying that basically if he gave up the Osode that his “friends†in new LS will think (in summary) he is weak and being a pushover .
This is not about weakness. This is not about anything else except Rokugen made an agreement- written agreement- and now he is going back on his word and stealing from the place it has always belonged to. In fact, the action he has taken has shown weakness. To do the right thing actually takes courage and honor.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/godivafilm/rok3.jpg
The link up above I did edit out tells from other people- I did leave first letter visible so u will know that I did not edit Rokugen’s tells. This is a good illustration of what is going on and the attitude portrayed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/deadnedz/other/DSC01499.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/deadnedz/other/DSC01508.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/deadnedz/other/DSC01509.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/deadnedz/other/DSC01514.jpg
He agreed to it knowingly.
He admitted on Monday and Tuesday on teamspeak (and its recorded) that he knows its wrong.
He admitted that it would be wrong if he walked off with it.
But he did this anyway.
He does not care that it is actually worse than Bobbyjai.
Bobbyjai did what he did to a stranger.
Rokugen did what he did to people he has known for a long time.
This agreement is not based on anything of favortism, nepotism, or anything except the agreement itself. It became in place for a reason and was voted on. The people and person in question agreed to this.
It’s very cut and dry, no ambiguous terms, gray area or negotiation.
This is not about selfishness in the part of Vindicated.
It has always and will always be a Vindicated item. He knows this and knew since day one.
We are simply trying to get our item back.
Rokugen, I know you will read this and I hope you do. You know full well what we talked about, and you know everything you stated. You said yourself it was wrong. You also stated that if someone else, a friend of yours, for example, got an item, and you were still in LS and he wanted to walk off with it—what would you say? You said- NO.
So right there in its entirety shows that it is wrong and you think and said its wrong….unless its you.
We want this over.
Do you want this to continue??
Just hand over the LS Osode, call it a day, and get it with you new LS.
Have faith in them to do that for you since it is such a big drama.
This item is a LS item. It never said Rokugen on it. (metaphor)
Do the right thing. Why thieve from people who once trusted you?
Comments on this situation on VnD forums are at
http://shahlaffxi.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=GuestBoard&num=1115174646&action=display&start=0
If need be, there are more SS and also voice confession from Rokugen himself saying that it is wrong if he would leave and take it.
It is a damn shame that it has to come to all forums in order to get any sign of justification of wrongdoing. People should know right and wrong and uphold their word. Simple agreement. No loopholes…..except the part of Rokugen not holding to his word and taking from Vindicated.
Shahla
Vindicated
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- Kirin Osode Taken From Vindicated- Rokugen Dishonored
Kirin Osode Taken From Vindicated- Rokugen DishonoredFollow
33 posts
Oh my God stop spamming every board you can find...
Scholar
21 posts
um you don't have to read it if you don't want.. geez what is everyones problem. It's a forum people are allowed to post. So why don't you just STFU and let shahla post.
Quote:
Oh my God stop spamming every board you can find...
She was told to bring it here. Get over yourself. its a service issue. She has it now posted in the right place.
As someone else said if you don't like a thread anywhere one this forum. ANYWHERE don't READ IT!
Quote:
dude do you even know what a kirin's osode is?!? if it was mine i WOULD post it on every single board. that is horrible man, and i hope he gives it back. In the end game, there are a lot less players than people realize, and everyone knows everyone. It'll come back around to him.
Actually it hit me that this is a sock puppet for that weasel this post is talking about.
How about it?? Wizardwhatever you are.. are YOU the thief??
Edited, Fri May 6 09:22:22 2005 by Noelie
May I ask what the name of the new LS that this person is a part of is?
You're not telling the whole story there. you're only telling your side to get simpathy from people. I have a very very very reliable source on this matter which I will keep un-named, that tells me this person who "won't give back the Osode" was someone who deserves it. here's a quote from my source:
"a sky team leader I believe he spent 99 days in sky leading a team for about 3-4 hr a night the only item he ever received was a kirin's osode. Upon leaving the LS there wasn't a "take care" it was ill be in jeuno in 30 sec for your osode. Now maybe cause its not rare/ex but they think it should be given back despite 40% of the people present for kirin are where he is going to that he should give it back. They are offering no compensation for all the time and effort he spent so he has decided to keep his osode. Now they make idle threats like you will be the next bobbyjai, and are more concerned with getting back an item then about the state of their LS. Losing 25 members in under 2 weeks should give you a clue to what your priorities should be. But they like to use key words like selfish and twist things around all it is, is ungratefulness. I'm sure VnD will try to ruin our rep but after the past events I doubt anyone will care. It just pisses me off that they can even try to bully someone into giving back something that is rightfully theirs. Maybe he did agree to give it back if he ever left but its a different story when many members in your new LS were the ones who helped him get it and why give it back to a faltering LS I highly doubt they will make it 2 more months. I'm sorry I ever stood up for them it is an LS of greed and dishonesty run by a two faced leader."
"a sky team leader I believe he spent 99 days in sky leading a team for about 3-4 hr a night the only item he ever received was a kirin's osode. Upon leaving the LS there wasn't a "take care" it was ill be in jeuno in 30 sec for your osode. Now maybe cause its not rare/ex but they think it should be given back despite 40% of the people present for kirin are where he is going to that he should give it back. They are offering no compensation for all the time and effort he spent so he has decided to keep his osode. Now they make idle threats like you will be the next bobbyjai, and are more concerned with getting back an item then about the state of their LS. Losing 25 members in under 2 weeks should give you a clue to what your priorities should be. But they like to use key words like selfish and twist things around all it is, is ungratefulness. I'm sure VnD will try to ruin our rep but after the past events I doubt anyone will care. It just pisses me off that they can even try to bully someone into giving back something that is rightfully theirs. Maybe he did agree to give it back if he ever left but its a different story when many members in your new LS were the ones who helped him get it and why give it back to a faltering LS I highly doubt they will make it 2 more months. I'm sorry I ever stood up for them it is an LS of greed and dishonesty run by a two faced leader."
Scholar
33 posts
Roku was here from the beginning of the shell's formation and deserves recognition for that, but he not only voted yes to keep the Osode within the shell, but also explicity sanctioned it. Like I said on the VN boards, if there had been no prior agreement in place, rest of us would've been fine with letting him have it. A vote did take place though, which he agreed to.
13 posts
I was leading in Vindicated for 10 months, of that 10 months I obtained 1 kirin's Osode. I have the most points from your so called "point system" and I asked for compinsation at least for my time.....the answer i recieved F*** you. I created and lead a sky team for you and was repaid with flames. Shahla, every day you are losing members to this, Blackeagle and Kuminos 2 of your leader council left yesterday disgusted with you. For your information we have over 20 VD members now and you have about 7 members left from that original Kirin.
Bobbyjai was alone, I do not go unsupported. I have spoken to many of the other hnm leaders about this already, they all have 1 thing in common, I should have been fairly compinsated. Due to your /tells and
rants you've earned little respect from your ls
http://www.darkesthourls.com/images/finalls.jpg
Heres your next in line for Osode....
http://www.darkesthourls.com/images/nextin.jpg
and as for threats please stop shahla...
http://www.darkesthourls.com/images/shahlai.jpg
All in all the way you have gone about this lost you your core group, I am sure you will recruit the finest level 65 that steal KB to fill in your LS. The fact is I was not compinsated in the slightest and the group that was at that Kirin is in support of me holding it.
I would like to thank Vindicated for treating me like such a valued member at no time did I ever feel appreciated.
Bobbyjai was alone, I do not go unsupported. I have spoken to many of the other hnm leaders about this already, they all have 1 thing in common, I should have been fairly compinsated. Due to your /tells and
rants you've earned little respect from your ls
http://www.darkesthourls.com/images/finalls.jpg
Heres your next in line for Osode....
http://www.darkesthourls.com/images/nextin.jpg
and as for threats please stop shahla...
http://www.darkesthourls.com/images/shahlai.jpg
All in all the way you have gone about this lost you your core group, I am sure you will recruit the finest level 65 that steal KB to fill in your LS. The fact is I was not compinsated in the slightest and the group that was at that Kirin is in support of me holding it.
I would like to thank Vindicated for treating me like such a valued member at no time did I ever feel appreciated.
Wow, a bit of drama on the Shiva boards that doesn't involve someone Flaming Crayola or Lionsfan, weird.
Vorrt wrote:
Wow, a bit of drama on the Shiva boards that doesn't involve someone Flaming Crayola or Lionsfan, weird.
Hey I represent that...errr....I mean I resent that, yeah thats right. I just hope for Shahla's sake her LS doesnt go down as fast as my rating did on here. ><;;
Although she does torture men in real life, dont know what that is all about /panic
Edited, Fri May 6 10:55:38 2005 by LionsFan
Keep ingame problems in the game.
Vorrt wrote:
Wow, a bit of drama on the Shiva boards that doesn't involve someone Flaming Crayola or Lionsfan, weird.
Hate to break it to you but my name being flamed is so last month... keep up with the news man
Rokugen wrote:
and as for threats please stop shahla...
http://www.darkesthourls.com/images/shahlai.jpg
http://www.darkesthourls.com/images/shahlai.jpg
Rokugen dude, that's not a threat, it CLEARLY looks like an invite to some whips and chains. Shahla sounds like a **********....
Jahgro wrote:
Quote:
I would like to thank Vindicated for treating me like such a valued member at no time did I ever feel appreciated.
so you think you deserve something worth that much? How about a krakens club? you want one of those too? or a peacock charm? oh i know, you deserve an ebow also huh?
Why not? =p We've given away several krakens to people who put forth the effort to camp for them ^^
The most reasonable thing I've heard on this topic was from Pirika on vnboards
Pirika wrote:
I peeked at your LS forums and saw the 3 page thread relating to this issue there. Something I learned about this issue that I beleive is important to resolving it is:
Rokugen spent 10 months leading your sky team, and the only item he obtained from sky was the Osode. He and his supporters seem to beleive that if he returns the item (despite having agreed to the terms before he accepted it) it will mean that he was "used" without any compensation for those 10 months.
Rokugen Wrote:
"if the person in question were to leave a fair price would have to meet the whole ls' expectations other than that osode shud saty with ls"
Other members of Vindicated have left for Darkesthour with the aburations and god gear they obtained in sky. That should show as compensation for their time. Since the Osode is Vindicated property, Rokugen actually has earned nothing but "points" from his time leading sky. From the quote above, it's been discussed in your LS that people leaving the shell be able to purchase LS items at a price agreed upon by the entire shell. Why don't you guys decide on a fair price for the Osode, a fair gil value to give to a "point", multiply that by the number of points Rokugen has accumulated and ask him to pay the difference? As an indifferent 3rd party that sounds completely fair to both sides. If Rokugen truely was a sky leader for 10 months (and did I read that you were in sky 4 days a week?) then the amount he'll need to come up with shouldn't be unreasonable. Also he wasn't kicked from the shell, but left on good terms (until this happened) so allowing him to purchase the item shouldn't be out of the question. Could both sides compromise and agree to something like this?
It sucks when stuff like this happens. The best way to avoid it is to make sure you keep good company, and to be as fair as you can to everyone. I've seen several posts from your members saying "I respected you" or "You were my friend". If he was so well respected he can't be all bad. I doubt he would have reacted like this if he felt he was treated fairly. Despite him agreeing to your terms before hand "Thanks for your service, now hand it over and be on your way" is far from fair. How about a parting gift? I hope you guys can work things out.
-Pirika
Rokugen spent 10 months leading your sky team, and the only item he obtained from sky was the Osode. He and his supporters seem to beleive that if he returns the item (despite having agreed to the terms before he accepted it) it will mean that he was "used" without any compensation for those 10 months.
Rokugen Wrote:
"if the person in question were to leave a fair price would have to meet the whole ls' expectations other than that osode shud saty with ls"
Other members of Vindicated have left for Darkesthour with the aburations and god gear they obtained in sky. That should show as compensation for their time. Since the Osode is Vindicated property, Rokugen actually has earned nothing but "points" from his time leading sky. From the quote above, it's been discussed in your LS that people leaving the shell be able to purchase LS items at a price agreed upon by the entire shell. Why don't you guys decide on a fair price for the Osode, a fair gil value to give to a "point", multiply that by the number of points Rokugen has accumulated and ask him to pay the difference? As an indifferent 3rd party that sounds completely fair to both sides. If Rokugen truely was a sky leader for 10 months (and did I read that you were in sky 4 days a week?) then the amount he'll need to come up with shouldn't be unreasonable. Also he wasn't kicked from the shell, but left on good terms (until this happened) so allowing him to purchase the item shouldn't be out of the question. Could both sides compromise and agree to something like this?
It sucks when stuff like this happens. The best way to avoid it is to make sure you keep good company, and to be as fair as you can to everyone. I've seen several posts from your members saying "I respected you" or "You were my friend". If he was so well respected he can't be all bad. I doubt he would have reacted like this if he felt he was treated fairly. Despite him agreeing to your terms before hand "Thanks for your service, now hand it over and be on your way" is far from fair. How about a parting gift? I hope you guys can work things out.
-Pirika
#18REDACTED,
Posted: May 06 2005 at 11:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) LOL, you are one to speak, lol. jk.
Jahgro wrote:
Quote:
I would like to thank Vindicated for treating me like such a valued member at no time did I ever feel appreciated.
so you think you deserve something worth that much? How about a krakens club? you want one of those too? or a peacock charm? oh i know, you deserve an ebow also huh?
Well, if he had lead a team in Sky for 99 days, 2-4 hours a night... Yeah, I'd say he deserves something. The manner in which he took his compensation was wrong, but he, indeed, deserved SOMEthing in my whole, honest opinion. Ever hear, "Can't put a price on loyalty/bravery."? Well, if he led that much, then yes, he does deserve something. Think about that next time you want Genbu's Shield, his Kabuto, or whatever you're after. Do other people think YOU deserve that?
As I've said, how he did it was wrong, out and simple, but can not blame him for wanting something out of all his hard work.
Yes, I know what Kirin's Osode is, and the price, and all that crap, so don't try to flame me with that BS.
Wanna rate me down? Go ahead, but you're rating someone down for their honest opinion, and for that, you'd just be a sad individual.
And I'm also not knocking Vindicated, since I know people in there, and once called Syrius my LS leader. So I, personally, have no problems with you, just with this matter...
Thanks for your time. o.O;
~Nieko
Edited for spelling mistakes.
And whoever rated me down, go get rated down for telling the truth, or your mind. *claps for whoever rated him down*
Bravo, Child... Bravo.
Edited, Sat May 7 03:50:49 2005 by Nieko
In the next update from SE:
(que People's Court Music)
Linkshell Divorce Court
(dum dum dum dum)
Bailiff Moogle: Kupo! All rise for the honorable judge Bahamat
(Bahamat gracefully crashes through the ceiling)
Bailiff Moogle: Case number 0001A, the case of “Who be that Osode’s Daddyâ€. Kupo!
Judge Bahamat: RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
Judge Bahamat: I have read the case briefings and am up to speed with the complaint. As I understand it this is Mr. Rokugen vs the remainder of the Vindicated linkshell represented by Ms. Shahla.
(Bustle in the back of the court)
Kirin: I request to file a brief on this case. I was mugged the other day and among my belongings stolen was the shirt off my back.
Judge Bahamat: Sir, I will not tolerate interruptions in my courtroom
Kirin: I be that baby’s Daddy!!!!
Kirin’s Osode: ………………………….. (Nothing clothing can’t talk no matter how cool it is)
Judge Bahamat: Bailiff restrain this crazy Manticore
Bailiff Moogle: Kupo! You should come with me sir.
Kirin summons Byakko, Genbu, Suzaku and Seiryu
Bailiff Moogle: Kupo! You don’t pay me enough
Bailiff Moogle uses Flee
Well you get the drift of where this is going I’ll let you all finish it in your heads.
(que People's Court Music)
Linkshell Divorce Court
(dum dum dum dum)
Bailiff Moogle: Kupo! All rise for the honorable judge Bahamat
(Bahamat gracefully crashes through the ceiling)
Bailiff Moogle: Case number 0001A, the case of “Who be that Osode’s Daddyâ€. Kupo!
Judge Bahamat: RAWRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
Judge Bahamat: I have read the case briefings and am up to speed with the complaint. As I understand it this is Mr. Rokugen vs the remainder of the Vindicated linkshell represented by Ms. Shahla.
(Bustle in the back of the court)
Kirin: I request to file a brief on this case. I was mugged the other day and among my belongings stolen was the shirt off my back.
Judge Bahamat: Sir, I will not tolerate interruptions in my courtroom
Kirin: I be that baby’s Daddy!!!!
Kirin’s Osode: ………………………….. (Nothing clothing can’t talk no matter how cool it is)
Judge Bahamat: Bailiff restrain this crazy Manticore
Bailiff Moogle: Kupo! You should come with me sir.
Kirin summons Byakko, Genbu, Suzaku and Seiryu
Bailiff Moogle: Kupo! You don’t pay me enough
Bailiff Moogle uses Flee
Well you get the drift of where this is going I’ll let you all finish it in your heads.
Oh damn, Zeerodeath! He lives a block away from me IRL. XD
Personally, I don't give a damn that he keeps the Osode. Good for him. Yeah, he agreed to the "LS Osode" thing, but I doubt he expected a massive exodus from the LS. I mean, damn 20+ members? I know some of them vaguely, and some of them quite well, and I trust their judgement. And besides, what the heck did you guys plan for if/when the Linkshell breaks up like this? Give everything non-EX back to the leader?! Fat chance...
EDIT: And good for him, for realizing that even if everyone in the game did somehow decide to b-list him....it's just a game.
Edited, Fri May 6 13:38:09 2005 by RougeTheBat
Edited, Fri May 6 13:40:34 2005 by RougeTheBat
Personally, I don't give a damn that he keeps the Osode. Good for him. Yeah, he agreed to the "LS Osode" thing, but I doubt he expected a massive exodus from the LS. I mean, damn 20+ members? I know some of them vaguely, and some of them quite well, and I trust their judgement. And besides, what the heck did you guys plan for if/when the Linkshell breaks up like this? Give everything non-EX back to the leader?! Fat chance...
EDIT: And good for him, for realizing that even if everyone in the game did somehow decide to b-list him....it's just a game.
Edited, Fri May 6 13:38:09 2005 by RougeTheBat
Edited, Fri May 6 13:40:34 2005 by RougeTheBat
#23REDACTED,
Posted: May 06 2005 at 12:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) AMEN to that sister...err..or brother. If ya cant stand the heat, get outta my butt.
When I get really bored, I read the VN boards for ***** and giggles, laughing at all the drama that occurs. I never even knew about that board until my LS got dragged unwillingly into the drama. If this is what the "end game" high level stuff is all about, count me out. Cheating, stealing, backstabbing, crap talking, nasty tells, screenshots being posted, people being booted from LS and all around negativity. {No, thanks} {I'll have to pass!}.
I like the fact that these higher level LS have points systems, pool gil, things are "owned" by the LS and everything is warm and fuzzy and everyone loves each other....yet when someone decides to leave, all that time and effort goes out the window with a warm F off. Very nice way to treat people that help you. This guy seems to have helped alot of people get alot of things, why not just let him have the Osode? Yes, i know what it is, yes I know how rare/expensive/hard to get it is. But who really cares? It is a virtual item worth virtual money. He put in the time and effort, bend the rules for the guy that obviously helped alot of other people get alot of rare/exe items.
I like the fact that these higher level LS have points systems, pool gil, things are "owned" by the LS and everything is warm and fuzzy and everyone loves each other....yet when someone decides to leave, all that time and effort goes out the window with a warm F off. Very nice way to treat people that help you. This guy seems to have helped alot of people get alot of things, why not just let him have the Osode? Yes, i know what it is, yes I know how rare/expensive/hard to get it is. But who really cares? It is a virtual item worth virtual money. He put in the time and effort, bend the rules for the guy that obviously helped alot of other people get alot of rare/exe items.
#25REDACTED,
Posted: May 06 2005 at 1:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) http://shahlaffxi.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=GuestBoard&action=display&num=1115174646
Quote:
Rokugen- Look at VN boards-- You have another sky leader saying the exact same thing.
YOU were hardly ever there. Barely ever coming, or coming late, or coming to god pops only, or xping instead of being there is not a sky leader. If it is- its name only.
Being there and leading or just saying your name with "sky team leader" next to it are two different things.
The point still remains.
YOU made an agreement.
YOU are now untrustworthy and a thief.
YOU lied.
YOu stole.
The Osode is NOT your sand never was. It belong toe Vindicated.
Darkest Hour is your new LS. You cannot take Kirin on yet but eventually you might be able to. Let them get you one. Unless of course- they don't trust you whoch I would not after this.
BUt then again- you have to check with them in order to retrun an OSODE that belongs to Vindicated- and why- because you are afraid - just like you said- "They will be mad if I give it up- like dont give it up or else."
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y123/godivafilm/rok4.jpg
Yes that sounds like a great beginning to a LS full of honesty.
It started based on deceit- and will be full of it. You are the mascot of that LS for taking from Vindicated and showing the true colors.
The only reason people trsut you in there is because they are your RL friends (2 of them).
Besides that- HOW can anyone trust your word??
YOu made an agreement.
You signed it - with even your picture attached to it.
Its very cut and dry.
Its not about gratitude its about HONESTY.
This is something YOU do not posses...and your new LS Darkest Hour encourages this. Is thieving a new way of introducing this?
What you are doing is wrong.
YOU SAID IT YOURSELF.
It came from the horse's mouth- and you can't and won't deny it.
Because in the end you know its true- and you know you are not a samurai- YOU are a thief.
My god, calm down. This is digital material. Yes, it sucks if what you say is true, but to be honest, if it's in his Gobbie bag now...it's his. You may call him a thief...but he's being a REALLY good one. He's putting all the hate on yo ***. I'm with Lokkii, if this is what the so-called "1337" LS's are about, hell, why join? I rather be with a group of cool ppl to get stuff with than some wannabe corporates holding my *** to a contract. So don't down talk the man's new LS, it just makes you look bad. Consider sending him PM's about this, because there is no court on the boards that's gonna change anything. Hell, you are gonna make him a hero. LOL. GO ROKU!!!!
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