Kirin Osode Taken From Vindicated- Rokugen DishonoredFollow

Sorry to post here but i have freind son shiva and also the OP psoted this on a bahamut forum for our biggest NA shell.

From what i have seen from reading thru all of these lovely posts.... Regardless of the parting terms... you are only as good as your word. If the osode was voted as LS property for whatever reason then it is ls property. If you fee lthat in 10 months of leading/whatever Sky event andonly getting an osode you have a few more issues than gear.

My current shell does al lthe basic boring stuff including skyand kirin. I go to sky for fun and commradery not loot. Blm get nothign from sky other than A Abj hands.... maybe head. If we take the mentality of many... we would not do sky. I mean why would we want to if we get virtually nothing from it no matter how long or how much we put into it.

When i went to the bahamut forum on seperate site and saw the op post there i laughed. When a shell divides... you have drama... Regardless of the reasons it usually revolves around ... i want to be boss now and make the rules. Pride and greed do wonders. Now i have seen people divide from a bad shell and make a new one with good members and be great. So you get both kinds.

Bahamut doesnt even come close to the drama some other servers do. We have claim stealers and gilsellers and blah blah blah like all others. We have popular end game shells break pearl and make new ones and keep all the shells funds and such. You cannot control any dynamic in this game other than what you do yourself. If you choose to leave a shell under personal reasons, then do so. Yet at same time honor your word and return any items you have that are shells property. In my shell i hold some HQ staves for the shell. If i was booted or left today i would give them back. Even tho in duration of timei nthe shell i has recieved little loot and gil. I hold them with the understanding that theyare for shell yet the shell cannot house all the gear it buys to make members stronger for events and such.

Overall the SS and fraps and such proove nada. The edits to some of them are very bad and you can take a section of any conversation and chnage the entire meaning. Flaming the leavers and the stayers does nothing more than show there was a seperation and a heated reason for the split. The osode should be returned as mentioned prior yet at this point it should be burned. Both sides feel they have aclaim to it but the things pointed out prior to the dispute show the keeper of the osode aggreed its shells long ago and is now reversing decision.

let me make a scenario... Lets say i bought a venomous claw... I go to a well known bonecrafter to make me a harness. WE agree at if he succeeds i pay him lets say 100k for the synth. He synths itand tada its a +1. Now i trade him 100k and he cancells it. He decides sinceits a +1 he wants 1000k. Now what would you do. I just gave him a 5million+ item and he used his craft for me and made a harness+1. I dont have 1million left to give him and he wont give me the harness unless i pay him for it. Alls things said... Propr to synth there is an agreement on 100k not one for 100k or 1000k if he +1's. Changing you mind after the fact while having the disputed gear in your possesion is easier.... Its called extortion!!! Give me what i feel i deserve or i keep it.

Most synthers have a NQ and HQ rate. If they do not then it is usually honored to whats agreed upon prior to synth. Your again only as good as your word.... The above reference is just to show an alternative to the debate. Using a piece of gear the majority of people can relate to.

Overall only thru peers ond your own conscience will you decide. Allowing an ex-member to retain a piece of gear that yo ucan replace later or giving back an item you agreed prior to getting that its not yours but the shell. People say possesion is 9/10's the law.... normally 90% of the time the 1/10 is in the right. Returning the osode would be honorable. You normally learn from mistakes so i assume most will revise laws for the shell after this fiasco. If not look for another post similar to this one later.

anyways... enough for this visit.... and for the future.... if you feel the need for public outcry try to keep it simple.... one post on one popular forum would have been good. Overkill tends to make you look despirate or in some cases even blatantly wrong.

toodles!

Hi all you Shiva-type people!

I've been poking around reading on the various forums where this was spa.. posted, and picked up most of the details of it. Why? Dunno, bored I guess. Anyway, as I am a) Nowhere close to the level to be in a HNMLS, b) Not on Shiva, I c) Don't really give a damn what happens to this Osode that I'll never see. But hey, if ya air your dirty laundry out in public, gotta expect random people to suggest new detergent to use. ^^

However!

I think I might have an idea on how to work this out to everyone's satisfaction. As I see it, there's several issues at work here:

1) Shahla will not be happy until she gets the Osode back

2) Rokugen likes having the Osode, and wants to be compensated for his 10 months in the LS

3) Shahla is personally bitter at Rokugen, most likely because he scooted soon after he got the Osode

4) Rokugen is surely bitter at Shahla after this whole mess was broadcasted to the FFXI world

5) Shahla sees the recovery of this Osode, or assurance of it's destruction, as reflective directly upon her leadership

6) Rokugen, while supported by many people in various LS's, would not want his reputation tarnished by this whole fiasco

7) Shahla has to be concerned about future LS members leaving the LS, and what compensation if any they would expect, so any deals that would be worked out must be made with this in mind

8) Rokugen is not likely to give up a ten million gil item without a great deal of compensation

9) Shahla, given her weak negotiating position (in FFXI, possession is 10/10 of the law), must realize that it is extremely unlikely that she will get satisfaction (Osode traded back or destroyed) without compromise

10) Rokugen, while having a strong negotiating position relative to the Osode, must realize that to a large population of players, his trustworthiness is on the line, and should come to the negotiating table with that in mind

11) Shahla already harbors bitterness towards Rokugen's new LS, as they are a spinoff from her LS. However, given that the LS members were previously from her LS, it is likely that there are members more in favor with her than others

12) Rokugen, given that he left a seemingly successful HNMLS, with the Osode, knowing the issues that would come up, must be very confident in the new LS. Additionally, his RL friend in the new LS contributes to the likely longivity and satisfaction in his membership with the new LS.

13) Shahla's LS still has plenty of people, and is still capable of doing everything they were doing before

14) Rokugen's LS has a good number of experienced HNMLS people, and as such can get up and running on god slaying fairly quickly

15) Shahla's pride is on the line.

16) Rokugen's pride is on the line.

oh yeah and...

17) Shahla REALLY needs some Valium >.>


With all of these points in mind, here is a possible solution from a uniquely unqualified perspective. Basically, the deal will work through an intermediary, and if successful, will make everyone happy (or at least grudgingly satisfied) without hurting anyone's pride. It requires trust in a third party, someone in Rokugen's new LS, but given that these people seem to have known each other a long time, that shouldn't be an issue. Ideally, this should be a person on more friendly terms with Shahla. For simplicity's sake, we'll say it's his new LS's leader.

Please note this is working off the assumption that god pop items are a real pain in the butt to farm for, and a significant restriction on how quickly an LS can make a Kirin run. If this is not the case, I apologize as I am not familiar with sky, but you could possibly substitute something else (or a service) in their place.

Rokugen will trade his Osode in to his new LS leader, in exchange for (most importantly) unarguable right to KEEP the first Osode drop off of Kirin, regardless of whether he stays with the new LS or not, it's his personal property. Also, he gets some high position in the LS or title or shinies or whatever it is HNMLS's do to make people feel special. In effect, it's more like he's letting his new LS "borrow" his Osode until such time as one drops off Kirin for them, at which point he will get it back.

The new LS leader (actually, whoever's on best terms with Shahla) will then go to Shahla and offer to trade her the Osode. This will be in effect an LS2LS deal, exchanging 1 Kirin's Osode for X Number Of Full Sets Of God Pop Items, with X being two or more. As I understand it, these seals (I think they are) can be sold and traded, and as such can be used as currency for the transaction. Ideally, the number will be more than two (because according to what people are saying, Kirin drops Osode around half the time) and way, way less than the number that would actually be required to make up for 10 million gil (because by the rules that Rokugen agreed to, the Osode technically belongs to Shahla's LS)

Shahla goes back to her LS and holds up the Osode in triumph, trading it to whatever LS member is the lucky new storage mule for it. (I still think there's something fishy about that, but people agree to it so whatever) Shahla immediately puts into effect a new LS law, heart-touchingly named "The Law That Sorry ******* Rokugen Forced Me To Make", which states that anyone leaving the LS immediately forfeits all points acquired.

Rokugen and his new LS hop on it, using their newfound seals popping gods and killing em, slaying Kirin over and over until finally the LS pays him back with his new personal Osode. Rokugem immediately heads to Shahla's LS's hang-out spot in Jeuno and dances around Shahla wearing nothing but his new Osode and a Bronze Subligar.

Shahla, after attempting to take her Valium but dropping it all over the bathroom floor in her uncontrollable rage, takes her frustrations out on her gagged and bound man-slave, doing very very bad things wearing nothing but stiletto heels and a whip.

Rokugen winces reflexively as the roughly stiletto heel sized punctures in his back flare up.




So, after all of this is done, everyone's happy. Shahla has her Osode, Rokugen has his Osode, his new LS have all kinds of fancy god-type shinies that endgame people seem to lust after, other HNMLS people can still respect Rokugen for giving up something he personally, and arguably rightfully, possessed for the good of his LS, the people in Shahla's LS will still "respect her authoritah!", the people in both LS's who still like both sides can be relieved that the whole mess is behind them, all of the postings on every FFXI forum in existance can fade into obscurity, Shahla's doctor got to bill her insurance company an exorbitant amount for the office visit where he prescribed her the Valium, AND he finally got her to punish him as the "naughty, naughty little boy you have been"!

On that note, I'm outta here <.<

- Urd

Wow^^. Hmmm, are you saying that cuz I gave you a ride to Burger King last night in my pimped out "Mibuu Mobile"? Or was it cuz of the backseat action?^^

LOL

But I do think this has gone on far enough. Sha is saying the same ole stuff, and nothing is gonna happen. Perhaps this is better discussed on your LS forum. Besides that, coming here venting will do nothing...but maybe give you more enemies. And we all know that your psycho *** don't need that.

Haha, did you think this one through before posting it?

If Kirin's Oside is a computer in your metaphor, what would be the metaphor for the salary he never recieved?

If you worked a job for however many months he was in your ls, and your boss never paid you a dime, wouldn't you feel that the least they owed you was a computer?

Can't we all just get along!? Group hug!

Wow, Poki. You are a cool guy. You see people, IN THE DARKEST HOUR...HOPE SPRINGS ETERNAL. I've made a new friend outta this post.^^ Thanks SHAHLA!!
And Wrip, when did you become so cold? I still love ya.

I don't know either of these people, and I only learned what Sky was like a week ago, yet I agree more with Rokugen than Shahla.

That's my honest opinion, I could give you reasons why I think he is in the right, but it wouldn't change anyones mind. In the end, I doubt he'll give it "back", and I hope he doesn't.

From what i read in the KI and this, he was in the LS for the longest time, and helped that ls in more ways than anyone else. I say he should keep it.

It is just a game, Sha, YOU can get another KO if its that important.

Random elaboration, since it's up at the top so I won't really be bumping it or anything.

H'okay, we've got some mass exodus out of the linkshell. So yeah, you have more people and you fill the positions. But one could easily say that with such a drastic restructuring of the linkshell, it's not the "original" or "real" linkshell. How many people have to leave becure this is possible? Obviously, if there's like 2 people left, then it can hardly be considered the same Vindicated. But clearly you've still got quite a few members, so this is a much less clear-cut issue. If many of the people that left were major contributors to the linkshell, this issue comes into play. An infamous linkshell such as VD is bound to fill up quickly, so 50+ might as well be meaningless if 30 of them are new.

In conclusion...Rokugen is going to keep the Osode unless a GM pries it from his cold, banned hands. Opinions are pretty much set as is, so arguing is rather pointless unless some whoamfg revelation is made. Just let it die. -_-

It wasn't my metaphor. Also, where in the real world is it possible for a person to recieve no compensation for months of work? It's not like he came away with knowledge only the linkshell could impart.

It's much easier to sympathize with Rokugen because he seems to know what he did is wrong to a degree, yet he feels that what you are doing is worse. You on the other hand don't seem to feel the least bit guilty about taking away from him something he worked hard for (according to half of the people here).

My big question to you is this; What do you expect to happen by posting this on the server forums? There in no one here who can resolve your situation. You don't need to answer that question, because their is no logical answer.

Let's hope this is the last post in this thread.