What has happened to the Shiva server? (long)Follow

Maybe it is just because I have recently reached "high level" status, that I have only recenlty been involved in HNMLS stuff, started looking into higher level NMs and have only recently been exposed to the VN boards, but it has made me stop and think of what happened to the Shiva server so i decided to post my thoughts.

When I first started FFXI, this was my first MMORPG ever. I was totally and completely clueless. I had a friend from SOCOM 1 and 2 take me under his wing and help me. He got me into a shell that was fun, helpful and just a good place to hang out. We were all lower than 50 at the time and there was no drama. It seemed Shiva was a friendly place full of helpfull people.

Unfortunately, that shell died when the LS leader left. I gravitated to the BST job because it fit my schedule. Lords of the Beast LS was just starting up and I started hanging there. LoTB has grown by leaps and bounds and we are now strong in both levels and members. We have started doing stuff as a group and looking to do higher level stuff, such as HNMs, ZM, sky, ect. While my own inner LS people are very tight, I look around at some of the other players/high levels and it makes me sad (not all, but some).

Greed, backstabbing, botting, HNMLS drama, lost friends, "stolen" stuff, flaming, lying, cheating and a ton of other negative stuff seem to dominate the landscape of the higher levels. No one plays for fun, it is more focused on having the best gear, the most gil and people are willing to get it by any means possible.

Many of you don't know me, but I was thrown right into some of the above drama because of the Serket fiasco. We have cleared it up, but it occasionally comes back to haunt me and other members of the shell. All I have ever done in this game is help people, in fact there are many people that have passed me in levels that I have helped get stuff such as AF, LB, ect. because I spend 90% of my time helping others. I do this because this is more fun to me than exping. But I have recently been excluded from helping because someone in my shell allegedly did something to someone in the group that wanted help. I was not asking for anything from the group and was willing to donate my time just to fight a NM for fun. But I was not invited because of something that happened I was not even involved in.

We took down Guivre and some people would ask me why we did it, Guivre has no good drops. That comment made me sad. We did it just to do it. Kinda like a mountain climber climbing a mountain "because it was there". We killed it cause it was there, we did it for a challenge and nothing more. I was excited about getting to fight higher level HNMs as members of LoTB grew in levels but my excitement has quickly dwindled when researching them. All the drama surrounding them has quickly doused the fire that was burning inside of me. I did not want to kill them for the drops (nice to have, but not the main reason for for killing NMs for me) but strictly for the challenge and fun of killing them. I may never get to kill things like Nidhogg, Behemouth and several other HNMs because of all the botting/cheating/pop time monopoly that I have read about, frankly because I do not feel like wasting my time to claim a mob that I do not have a fair chance at.

I will probably get flamed for this, but whatever. I think people need to sit back and re-evaluate the game. It is not about the gear you wear, the gil you have or anything else. It is about enjoying the game with your friends.

So I ask, what do you play FFXI for?

Yeah, I think when (most) ppl get around lvl 65, their Latent Ability "Asshat" is awakened. I guess they feel that they are "high lvl" or some bullcrap. To be honest, I think it was more fun playing as lower lvl jobs. Sure you got the newbs, but you have less "1337" wannabes and ********. I finally got my RNG to 74, now I'm kinda bored with the game. I think I'm going to quit, but I might just go lvl my 55 THF again. I miss the "common" ppl. I'm tire of the +65 lvl players with a '***** for bourgeois'. ITS A GAME. HAVE FUN. I've gone and started up the ole Final Fantasy Tactics. Now THAT was a really fun game to play. Damn HNMLSs and others make end-game look like a walk down Wall Street. How boring.

Main reason I still play FF XI is because of the cool ppl I met. If not for them, I'd have quit when my WHM was lvl 50 last summer.

Well I will agree that alot of HoCD are descent people. I will say without hesitation they are not in any way free from drama. HoCD was one of the main causes of the serket garbage with LOTB,They initially stole serket. And the whole god damn thing could have been pretented if either one of the other 2 LSs Had treated us as equals, and filled us in on the mistake that happened. Unfortunatelly they didnt so we didnt even realize claim had ever been lost for them to steal it. And they eescaped to give it back. Maybe if we hadnt been insulted and laughed at we may have been more open to listening to them about what happened. From what I recall it was a DL member that came into LOTB shell and started a flaming sesion then took screens to make us look bad.Several of there member also whent around in game bashing us about it.

Now personally ill say this, Im never coming back to FFXI again. The imature way people act is absolutely disguisting IMO. This drama is so damn juvenile. I understand its a game and younger people play. My problem is its not the younger people causing this. These HNM LSs and all the BS drama that goes along with it is unbelievable. Every time I logged in or looked on the boards its aways something. Oh this person did this and this shell did this, Shouts in jueno about oh this person sucks ect.ect.

The seket thing was the funniest. There was probably 15 people that actually witnessed it. But somehow everyone in the game seems to know exactly what happened. I dont claim to know what happens at every HNM NM fight but I guess its some super secret abbility all HNM LSs get. The honest truth of the matter is quite simple. People play this game too much. Im not saying getting high lvl and getting bad *** gear is bad. Hell its cool that you made it so far you put in your time and deserve some credit.

What you do not deserve is the right to act like your gear makes you better than other players.This doesnt give you the right to put others down. People ***** and cry about SE ruining this and that, Its not SE its the players ruining it. Serket is a perfect example. How many ******** about it had anything at all to do with what happaned? How many even know what happened besided the exagerations written on message boards. Did it even come out that HoCD actually stole serket before we killed it beacause of a voke bot?

Apparently not. When they all came to the boards to complain did anyone post this. man after I finished laughing at LOTB and saying that they had no chance and they should go away and let the real players fight. Then not informing LOTB that a mistake happened and the LS that had claim was escaping to give it back, Because they had somhow stolen it. Then once LOTB claimed not sending a tell or shouting anything but insults, and trying to kill off all the area pets. Then waiting till we finished fight then demanded drops without an explanation of the mistake that occured. Instead of talking and explaining the initial mistake and why the escaping LS didnt have rightfull claim. They just kept up with the insults then hit the boards.

It wasnt for 2 days that someone actually explained to us that it was actually 2 other LSs besides ours there, And how HoCD actually stole first. So a big misunderstanding turned into some huge drama by a bunch of people who care way too much about a game. Most of wich had nothing to do with it at all. So much that it couldnt be handled without a mediator 48 hours after the fact. All I have to say ask is why? Why is it so hard for high lvls to get together and play?

Have you all ever thought of just getting together regardless of you LS affiliation. All these rules and regulations are a bit rediculous. a LS bank for starters, While I can see a point to it. This latest BS over vindicated got me thinking. All these LSs claim to be not greedy and nice and helpefull. Why do you need a point system and this and that. If the shell owners werent greedy why not just do it this way. When in dynamis or sky just lot for rare/ex got 3 whm at the time there if a WHM item drops lot it. Yay winner gets drop its his. Next time it happens he doesnt lot it.

On big drops that get sold why should the LS owner or one person get it to sell and bank gil? If theres 10 people there sell it split gil quite simple. Just because you own the shell you shouldnt get to monopolize on drops and items.

The players cause so many problems with this game. the only people that get to experience it are those few that have nothing to do besides play. With the HNM stuff its always well you need to be this high a lvl with this high a rank and this type of gear. I understand the lvl thing to a point, Yes you need to be higher lvl for end game. But would it kill a LS to have people at 65 in it. Besides the fact that at 65 you can do most of the end game missions and what not. remember how damn hard it is to get a PT at those lvl at times? Wouldnt it be nice to have a good amount of players in that range on your LS to lvl with.

If these supposed elite shells were to open up a bit and stop being so picky, And just have fun with the game. Help poeple with those missions you require, If there the right lvl to do it. If there a good person let them in the shell and help get them through the mission instead. Blah whatever im done. Not like anyones going to actually read this and actually think hmm maybe I do take this game to seriously and should try and just have more fun. Its more like there gonna read it and bash it because, well thats what most people do. So have fun im done with FFXI and and these forums. I just feel bad for the people who havent hit end game yet and dont realize that its no longer a game at that point. Hopefully alot will realize that unless they take this game as serious as life and death that it will get frustrating and they wont get to experience a huge portion of FFXI.


Edited, Mon May 16 22:47:58 2005 by Osyrus

Edited, Wed May 18 01:58:47 2005 by Osyrus

Sorry for slipping of topic Lokki (By the way /wave), my question is: Why is it that people from a known HNMLS get involed in a situation the HNMLS itself is brought into question, but when say someone who is not appart of one his/her character is examined(And the LS isn't even touched on)? This always makes me wonder. In anycase, that question shouldn't even matter, alas that is not what our server is like sometimes, the trick is to find the cool people and stick it out with them. I find the most fun in talking to old LS mates from the old days, back when I was new. I'm sure you all recall some events yourself with old friends, that my dear Shivans is what this game is about: Friendship.

-Calvern

Edited, Tue May 17 01:02:28 2005 by Calvern

Edited, Tue May 17 01:19:56 2005 by Calvern

amen x 10 ^^

<_< when I first reached Qufirm Island, I made a horrible mistake that almost took the PT down... (I hate miscommunication), after repeated apologies (I pulled and another war in pt pulled..uh oh!) on my part, most of the pt was not angry with me and understood what happened, and that made me feel a lot better, that I was not judged because I misread and saw the wrong enemy...I think that was awesome ^^ I don't do it anymore of course, but I won't forget that...Of course, the game did payback on me and I nearly died from Bogy aggro!!! >< Damn you Bogy!

{/Poke} Cresir ^^

I believe that part of it comes from us not being able to laugh at ourselves. We take things too seriously; sometimes we need to take a step back and laugh.

We ALL do stupid things on this game. What we forget is that those stupid things, those quirks, are what make us different and unique. Anyone can get buy haubergon (esp if you buy gil) or do an optical hat run (esp if you buy friends). But what party can wipe and still come out laughing? Remember those really good deaths that were better than the fight itself? Why do you think that the "best newb sayings" thread is so wildly popular? It reminds us of how innocent, new and fun this game used to be to us. The game hasn't changed.

I think that every now and then we should take a break from the norm and do something we wouldn't normally do. Powerlevel a new player, someone you don't know. Help someone with subjob items or RSE because haunts and bones **** you off. Hunt down and overkill something wortless because it just killed your friend. The game isn't all about money, leveling, and crafting.

That being said, I propose we organize a multi-HNMLS event to camp the Geater God, Bubbly Burnie. All are invited. Be sure to bring your weakest weapons...lowest levelled jobs....and lots of God pops (quus). Full Alliance? Yes, Please. That clock will be ours!

I could make a long reply here, but it is simple to sum up. "Play to have fun" no matter what that may be. Fishing for hours, camping NM's, camping HNM's, leveling, crafting, etc...

first of all osyrus, HoCD doesn't have a voke bot. I can 100% back the fact that LS doesn't use any voke bot nor even cares about them for i am there leader Neorei.

withe whole serket drama, yes we stole it first but my guys did the right thing by giving the NM back to to the orginal LS that was fighting it the YOU GUYS took that NM and eventualy killed it which is techincally a STEAL. You guys knew about that you took the HNM and even had screen shots of you guys even admiting it. You say LS was being flamed when really it was just puzzel who was tanking serket for you guys that was taking the heat from my ls cause she/he was the only one came to me and told me that my members was picking on her. now let me tell you the funny part.................puzzels in my ls now.


you see this game is like like going to school that is the way how i view each lvl has it phases and i'll explain to you how i see it.

lvl 1-30: is like grammar school. Your still new to the world and learning all aspect about it. you see people and to look up and one day hope you can be them and do what they do. you wanna learn more and become a better play to set you up in the real challege to come. there will be people who are high lvl who is willing to help and teach you all aspects of the game and guide you to the right direction.

lvl 31-50: to me this is high school this is where you start meeting real friends and start hanging people and just start learning and getting better at what you going to really become: a high lvl. here you will learn your craft and learn it well you'll get a piece of you next lvl and soon will hunger for the skill and knowledge for the next lvl.

51-70: you my friend is in college, here the first 10 lvls you go thru pain and conqunor odds to get you artifact armor, here you will find friendship at it's best and eduring pain of getting to where you wanna go. here you advance you knoweledge of you job to the point of perfection. in this stage you will guide yourself and strive for what the real challege awaits.

lvl 71-75: i call this RL, welcome to the greatest culture shock you will ever have in the game. here everything you have done in the past 70 lvl will make a impact if you can and want to get into what we call HNMLSs or what i call business corperations. some people in college lvls 50-70 decided to skip it all and make it into the RL with there own company or entrupenurs or what i call HNMLS leaders. some fail some don't. some people instead of going to HNMls decided to help there LS become one. we call these ls's, family businesses. some people will jump from hnmls to hnmls i call these people journeymans.

here you will find greed and it's best, every big and small corparations will have 1 goal and 1 goal only and that is to have the #1 stock. everytime someone blast a rumor that LS stock falls, then people won't use there stocks towards this LS cause of it's stock. THe higher the stock the better and more people that linkshell will have.

in this world we have to market to get good people who we know. some people have the creditenals, some don't. we all strive and work hard to have them.

at high lvls the friends you met while going thru school will be in other LSs, some maybe you hook up to inner dealings, some just turn shady on you. Some my stick with you where you go and some will just go on and do there own thing.

ahhh skip this post i'm sleepy

I play to have fun, and always have. I have not yet been tempted by greed, and if i do then someone hopefully will make it clear in a dramatic post on VNboards.

I've been in good 'ol CD/CDS/CDP/Hero/HoCD since day 1, and our LS has been continously changing. And i've stuck with it.. because i love my ls? lol.

Also, i feel sad at the moment with the various claims of people using bots- Although there have ALWAYS been people using bots, just noone really noticed.. and now it's centre stage at HQ HNM pops such as Nidhogg perhaps. I don't want to go into botting, but i'll say this. Fishing bots have been with FFXI for a long time... if SE didn't put a stop to those, then i doubt they will put a stop to HNM bots. The same thing applies to windowers, dat file swapping.. whatever, it's all messing with the game, and it's all wrong :/.

HNM bots, packet sniffers.. whatever they are. They aren't needed, although, people want to use them to be better than everyone else. You could refer to it as 'using a gameshark to get infinity lives'. Haha... imagine someone using a invincibilty hack in FFXI against kirin(missmissmissmiss0dmg*kirin regens 100hp*).. Dear god, that will be next. A level 1 WAR solo'ing Kirin... it'd be a battle of a lifetime. And this whole concept of someone cheating the game makes me upset. Because when someone uses something, other people use it, then more people use it.. then more people pay someone to make something better than the original to beat everyone else, etc etc etc...

As for the serket affair (in reply to osyrus)- which i thought was dead and done with, but obviously isn't from the bitterness and the drama filled crap- i apologise. My LS claimed serket accidently- but we gave it right back. But something is annoying me... you claim someone from HoCD in LoTB took those screenshots, when it was reiayn from DL who posted those screenshots on VNboards. If you read her signature, all would be clear. Please don't flame our LS. One more thing, any member in HoCD with a claim bot will get KICKED, ask neorei. I'm sure the misunderstanding between LoTB and HoCD was due to Chaithai trying to explain what was wrong with claiming a HNM when it was yellow. I kept WELL away from drama from BOTH LS', i unequiped hocd and lotb during serket and witnessed the events there from a non biast perspective, due to my conflict of interest (i wanted to kill serket in a big BST alliance).

As for drama.. no ls is free from drama. My GF in a newb LS witnessed drama in her own LS because of some weird conflict between someone kicking random people out, lol. There will ALWAYS be drama, it's natures way. If you don't like drama then it's best to play a normal RPG instead of one that interacts with thousands of people from different backgrounds, ethnics, etc. Of course there are always bad people, and n00b (bobbyjai) and n00b lookalies (i look like bobbyjai), but that's the same as RL.

Now.. can't we all just get along? o.O It's a game, so we should always have fun and face problems head on regardless of what they are. I'm tired of LS drama spilling onto boards, too. It doesn't do anything to help anyone involved.

Also if you want to see a GREAT example of a bot, go to ordelle's caves and look around for a mithra THF.. i forgot her name, but she has a great bot. Just before Stroper Chyme pops.. she uses flee/hide runs around in a circle then goes directly to where it will pop before it pops, and claims it.

TOM AND NEOREI!!!!!!!

It's me, glimmy!

I'm probably coming back, very soon! I've missed you guys...

OP's post was nice and straight-forward, addressing a lot things people feel about at end game. Nothing wrong with that. I feel the same way often. Going out of the way, doing things that are not sanctioned by the game (cheating) to get items or get rich (gil buying) - I don't want to be a part of that, whether it is in rumor or in reality.

People do get more greedy at the end game, always attempting to out do each other with damage, gear, money...as if having these proves something. You can have all the uber gear and 99,999,999,999 in your bank, but if you got there at the expense of many, then have you really made yourself a repected player?

Personally, I'm tired of hearing about ground HNMs and botting and everything. I left a certain LS that I really wanted to join coming up thru the levels because of their rumored or actual botting alegations. I don't care to know if it is true or not - I just couldn't stand all the hoopla.

People really need to see the new stuff SE has installed - the Trigger NMs and level 75 ENMs as well. They drop gear and materials to make gear that are comparable to some of the stuff over camped ground HNMs drop. It's just that people like to sell them or make it LS property instead of treating these just as they do Rare/Ex items - given away after a /ramdom or via point system. Imagine...if you can sell that Keoning it will cost more than Kirin's Osode, Noble Tunic, and Kraken Club combined for sure!

My pet peeve (since we are all mentioning it - from Serket redux to Botting and MPK)is it's sad how people will flock to ground HNMs, get killed a few times, to get ONE lucky person a Rare/Ex Abjuration that make the uber Rare/Ex gear and not complain about it - but for some reason if it's not Ex they want to be "paid for the troubles". Even if that non-EX item is something that is seen as equivalent in its desirability/end game value (not finanicial, statistic equivalency) for that job as the EX gear for another job.



I hope that you really mean this...because we need people that are more like you. Go thru the challenge to kill something for the fun, and in process helping out your friends, not gil for yourself at the end of the challenge. Perhaps when people start seeing this as a challenge and a game, rather than something to show off gained power, then money will become irrelevant, and people will become a little more friendly to others.

People should try to remember when the overwhelming joy you first felt when you finally got enough people to kill the mission 2-3 dragon...or when your first AF coffer key dropped into your hands... Wouldn't it be nice if you can make someone, especially your friends, your LS mates, feel that way again? Do you remember the first time you were able to help somebody, either by taking on a linked Qudav in Gustaberg or killing a aggroing Yag, or even throwing a random Cure on some body that's poisoned and about to die, and how thankful that person was - and the warm fuzzy people you got as that person "Kneeled respectfully" in front of you?

I hope people will and can remember these things...because then I think Shiva would be a nice place to live again, even as a level 75.

Until then, I'll just keep on helping people in the best way a WHM can.

I really think you're mistaking greed at end game for a narrowing content. There is simply less things available to do at end game than there are at level 50. At 50 you are trying to do AF...everyone can do AF because you don't have to wait 21-24 hours for an NM to pop to kill in order to get a rare/ex drop to complete your abjuration armour.

Only one person per week on the entire server can get something like martial abjuration: body, which is for the PLD body koenig piece (unless Nidhogg drops two which he'll sometimes do). That's one person out of dozens and dozens who want it.

It's not greed to want to get the end game items, it's just poor sportsmanship when you cannot because of how the game is constructed and you go whining and crying and try to come up with other ways to obtain this stuff.