When I lost a claim to a bot at lizzy YET AGAIN (degacant), I called a GM and simply demanded why they won't do crap. He actually told me.
It's because they can't.
The plain and simple truth of the matter is that there is no proof against Botters or Gilsellers that they do the things people accuse them of, and there is no way to obtain this proof.
Basically, Botters and Gilsellers will only get banned if they pretty much say in /say that they bot/sell gil. Some people think this means that SE is probably in the gilseller's pocket, but look at it from a legal stand point.
The only way SE could ever get incriminating evidence on a gilseller is if they SAID they sell gil, or if SE fake buys gil from one of the websites. If they do that though, the website they buy it from can find billions of loop holes in SE's rule strutcture. For example, they weren't selling the gil, they were selling the Delivery Service for gil and you could have gotten the gil for free by just asking them. They could change their ToS on their website to fit this accordingly, as their is fine print that says it is able to be changed anytime without notification. So basically, the gilsellers have an immesurable system of loop holes they can use against SE.
As for botters...
You cannot prove by game play only if someone is a bot. They can pull a billion loopholes out of nowhere, just like the gilsellers. For instance, they were concentrating so much that they didn't say anything when they voked and killed the mob, making them look AFK. Also, due to Privacy Codes, SE cannot legally scan your computer for the files that would be capable of running a bot.
So basically, botting and gilselling are illegal, but SE cannot enforce the rules in any way. So what does this mean for the players?
Vigilante Justice.
If you've been pissed off by a gilseller or botter, stop hoping SE will come and save the day, because they won't. You have to fight back. Bring friends to the camp, do whatever.
If you're curious as to how to get back at gilsellers, I'm not going to just TELL you what to do. Some things I will say:
1.) If a mob attacks you and you shadowbind or bind it near another player, it will attack them even if they haven't done anything to them. You better watch out for that...
2.) If you just happen to get a huge train of top tier Orcs in Davoi at Poisonhand camp and you can't seem to get rid of them, try Deodorize + Hide...
3.) Pefect Dodge + Warp can get you out of rather nasty situations, leaving whatever you had on you still in the area.
I'm not saying to necessarily DO these things to the botter or gilsellers, just stating that these things can happen "accidentally" often. Remember, we have loop holes too...
So basically, if you're upset about gilsellers and bots, do something about it. Because SE literally CAN'T do anything about it.
Edited, Mon Jul 18 11:24:26 2005 by Shaolinz
Edited, Mon Jul 18 11:21:58 2005 by Shaolinz
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Quote:
The way that the following items are acquired has been changed:
Archer Ring, Leaping Boots, Emperor Hairpin, Peacock Charm
In addition, players may receive an EX/Rare or EX item with the same attributes from the monsters who previously dropped each of the above items.
Archer Ring, Leaping Boots, Emperor Hairpin, Peacock Charm
In addition, players may receive an EX/Rare or EX item with the same attributes from the monsters who previously dropped each of the above items.
Quote:
The way that the following items are acquired has been changed:
Archer Ring, Leaping Boots, Emperor Hairpin, Peacock Charm
In addition, players may receive an EX/Rare or EX item with the same attributes from the monsters who previously dropped each of the above items
Archer Ring, Leaping Boots, Emperor Hairpin, Peacock Charm
In addition, players may receive an EX/Rare or EX item with the same attributes from the monsters who previously dropped each of the above items
Lol, believe it or not, I took my thief 75 levels without an emp hairpin, hopefully I'll be able to get one now. I refused to buy one, and camping VE caused me no end of frustration, call me gimped, a bad thief, but I did play my job to the best of my ability.
Skill > Gear. And I like Shaolinz idea. Time to lvl BST eh? lol
Here is my only issue. Yesterday in Kuftal, Guivre is up. Now, Guivre drops nothing of value, we simply kill it for sport and to exact some revenge when Guivre decides to eat a few of us while heading to Cape Terrigan. So yesterday the call went out for a Guivre hunt. A bunch of BST head over their and start killing it. The Superstars decide that they did not like them being there, for whatever reason. The killed off the ex-pets, and not just the lizards, but spiders, cactuars, whatever. This caused some of the BST to die and the others to bail on the fight. When it was all said and done, the superstars just sat there, let Guivre regen and go on about his happy way and proceed on their monopoly of Amement.
Here is the catch 22. Technically, they did not MPK. However, in real world terms, we all know they did. As BST, we could very easily MPK them. Would not even be a challenge. First off, we would not do this, because we have taken it upon ourselves to not MPK, but theoretically if we did, WE would get in trouble, while the gil sellers (and they have openly admitted they are gil sellers) go about thier happy little sweat shop lives.
I love the fact that they are changing the NM drops and getting Rare/EXE replacements. Something needs to be done and SE taking a small step in the right direction is a good thing.
Here is the catch 22. Technically, they did not MPK. However, in real world terms, we all know they did. As BST, we could very easily MPK them. Would not even be a challenge. First off, we would not do this, because we have taken it upon ourselves to not MPK, but theoretically if we did, WE would get in trouble, while the gil sellers (and they have openly admitted they are gil sellers) go about thier happy little sweat shop lives.
I love the fact that they are changing the NM drops and getting Rare/EXE replacements. Something needs to be done and SE taking a small step in the right direction is a good thing.
Quote:
When I lost a claim to a bot at lizzy YET AGAIN (degacant), I called a GM and simply demanded why they won't do crap. He actually told me.
It's because they can't.
It's because they can't.
This in itself is 100% ********* SE ****CAN**** do anything they want with absolutly ***NO*** ramifications. It is their game, and they can boot anyone at anytime for any or no reason at all. If they banned you from the game tommorow, they wouldnt even have to give you a reason, and their is ***NOTHING*** you can do about it. Johhny Cockrane, and all the high priced lawyers in the world would get you no where, and nothing. They do not have to have any reason to ban people!!!!!!
Quote:
The way that the following items are acquired has been changed:
Archer Ring, Leaping Boots, Emperor Hairpin, Peacock Charm
In addition, players may receive an EX/Rare or EX item with the same attributes from the monsters who previously dropped each of the above items.
Archer Ring, Leaping Boots, Emperor Hairpin, Peacock Charm
In addition, players may receive an EX/Rare or EX item with the same attributes from the monsters who previously dropped each of the above items.
If you ask me, this is definatly doing something to the gil sellers. At least a few of the monopolized items will be off their list of things to do as of tonight :) Should put a small dent in their wallets at least :)
If you BST really want to tick off Gil sellers go there and charm the placeholders of the NM they are hunting for a while so they can't get the NM to spawn.
acepod wrote:
This in itself is 100% ********* SE ****CAN**** do anything they want with absolutly ***NO*** ramifications. It is their game, and they can boot anyone at anytime for any or no reason at all. If they banned you from the game tommorow, they wouldnt even have to give you a reason, and their is ***NOTHING*** you can do about it. Johhny Cockrane, and all the high priced lawyers in the world would get you no where, and nothing. They do not have to have any reason to ban people!!!!!!
This is true. SE can remove anyone at any time because....you Accepted their ToS, this is a legally binding "contract" saying you will agree etc etc. The same with your Windows software (as an example of contracts). Read the fine print and you'll see ^^
I am glad they have finally done something about the Archers ring although I'm not sure how this will affect xxFORSAKENxx and our Chyme parties of which we have only had two. Regardless, the news of the change lifted my spirits a bit even though I am cautious to be happy about anything SE "says". As for the shell, I am hoping for an open discussion about othetr gil seller saturated areas we can attempt to disturb. At least, for now, I am hopeful.
Edited, Mon Jul 18 14:21:20 2005 by Cornnholio
Edited, Mon Jul 18 14:21:20 2005 by Cornnholio
Keyword is PROOF so the game becomes one of accusation only? I write software and design hardware the PC is designed for automation anything that is written for these can be remote controlled actually same with PS2 just takes hardware and a little ingenuity really. Not one game created for the PC doesnt have a hack or an exploit that can't be created in reality it is a pure he said she said argument. On bots if the person is at the keyboard actually nothing SE can do about it. Or they just can ban anyone who gets multiple claims or is good at voking.
One thing they could do is enforce the monopoly rule but there again keeping the ton of data on it can drive them mad by users with many accts and alts.
The same problems are in every game I have ever played and will be in any in the future that is the honest truth. If they banned everyone someone accused of botting no one would be playing period.
That's the sad truth.
One thing they could do is enforce the monopoly rule but there again keeping the ton of data on it can drive them mad by users with many accts and alts.
The same problems are in every game I have ever played and will be in any in the future that is the honest truth. If they banned everyone someone accused of botting no one would be playing period.
That's the sad truth.
I'm surprised O-Kote wasn't one of the NM drops to be altered.
havent one of the gillselling groups openly admitted to selling gil (crts) but i see them on now and again >.>
Quote:
Keyword is PROOF so the game becomes one of accusation only? I write software and design hardware the PC is designed for automation anything that is written for these can be remote controlled actually same with PS2 just takes hardware and a little ingenuity really. Not one game created for the PC doesnt have a hack or an exploit that can't be created in reality it is a pure he said she said argument. On bots if the person is at the keyboard actually nothing SE can do about it. Or they just can ban anyone who gets multiple claims or is good at voking.
One thing they could do is enforce the monopoly rule but there again keeping the ton of data on it can drive them mad by users with many accts and alts.
The same problems are in every game I have ever played and will be in any in the future that is the honest truth. If they banned everyone someone accused of botting no one would be playing period.
That's the sad truth.
One thing they could do is enforce the monopoly rule but there again keeping the ton of data on it can drive them mad by users with many accts and alts.
The same problems are in every game I have ever played and will be in any in the future that is the honest truth. If they banned everyone someone accused of botting no one would be playing period.
That's the sad truth.
I was in no way suggesting they should ban people because someone thinks they are a botter/gilseller. I simply said they ***COULD*** ban anyone for any or no reason at all. Which in all actuality is true.
I would be severely pissed off if they banned me, because someone said i was useing a cooking bot. But it certainly doesnt take a rocket scientist (or computer programmer to stick the the subject matter), to figure out who is and who is not monopolizing things. SE collects data rather easily, wouldnt the account that has been logged in at stroper chyme for 185 days non stop, 24 hours a day be enough proof to ban that account? What about the botters i see, who will fish for hours and drop everything they get because their inventory is full? What about transaction records of gil being sent, to flag accounts, and find those that are actually delivering gil (not sure how much this would help, but never the less, it would be a start).
There is so much SE can do if they chose to, however then gil sellers appear to pay their monthly fee on time, and so are left alone, since SE is makeing RL money off them. There has to be at least 100 gil sellers per server, x's 30 servers (i forget how many exactly) thats 40K RL dollars. Then add that most gil seller accounts prolly have multiple mules, and thats a considerable amount of money for SE to throw away. This is the real reason SE **WONT** do anything, not because they cant.
The problem with account flagging is the ability to create and move accts.
Also if your in my ls after a successful HNM hunt we all get a huge share. Once again proof will I get flagged because we sold 6-10 million gil in bazaar and split it? We trade pts for a millions the problem is very hard in deed based on the game design. Some in my gil could look exactly like a gil seller from the amount of gil transacting on the accts. Many HNMLS have mules carrying 100 Million plus ls banks. That pass gil to the members.
Lastly way more peeps sell gil then you think thats the honest truth many who been 75 seems like ever have huge stashes of gil and have been selling it for months just peeps don't talk about it.
we're beatin a dead horse.. why? i thought all this was purty well known at this point.. and offering ideas of mpking is as lame as selling gil. sry to bust ur bubble but 2 wrongs do not make a right. mpking gilsellers because they sell gil doesnt make it right. and if u start mpking maybe they might try to do the same or just bring more ppl to help camp. gilsellers are not going to stop monopolizing just cuz u mpk them once or twice. if u repeatedly mpk then maybe.. but u just might find urself in jail before u break the will of the gilsellers.
im sorry for coming off harsh but these threads r getting very old. the gms in this game in no way represent SE if u didnt know. SE goes through a hiring company to get gms and some gms dont even actually play this game -- they r just employees.
example: if one mcdonalds restaurant always burns ur fries, its not the company's fault its the employees fault. in that case u would go to another restaurant instead of nonstop complaining to others about how bad mcdonalds is and what u can do to make mcdonalds change.
SE is honestly trying to figure out ways around gilsellers and trying to make it work. but u figure there must be at least 1000 gilsellers on all servers (most likely more).. thats 13000$ in SE's pockets just from their accounts. most ppl make about that much money in one year.
make sure u know who to point the blame at. just like at mcdonalds, if u dont like the employees, u go to another restaurant. if you complain and they still dont change, dont go back and find some where else to eat. in this situation, if ur so unhappy with the aspects of the game, there are others out there that r fun for u too.
edit: check this link it, u might find it interesting... link.
Edited, Mon Jul 18 15:45:30 2005 by meowmixalot
im sorry for coming off harsh but these threads r getting very old. the gms in this game in no way represent SE if u didnt know. SE goes through a hiring company to get gms and some gms dont even actually play this game -- they r just employees.
example: if one mcdonalds restaurant always burns ur fries, its not the company's fault its the employees fault. in that case u would go to another restaurant instead of nonstop complaining to others about how bad mcdonalds is and what u can do to make mcdonalds change.
SE is honestly trying to figure out ways around gilsellers and trying to make it work. but u figure there must be at least 1000 gilsellers on all servers (most likely more).. thats 13000$ in SE's pockets just from their accounts. most ppl make about that much money in one year.
make sure u know who to point the blame at. just like at mcdonalds, if u dont like the employees, u go to another restaurant. if you complain and they still dont change, dont go back and find some where else to eat. in this situation, if ur so unhappy with the aspects of the game, there are others out there that r fun for u too.
edit: check this link it, u might find it interesting... link.
Edited, Mon Jul 18 15:45:30 2005 by meowmixalot
Scholar
21 posts
Honestly i really don't like the idea of having Rare/ex items drops from The fantastic Four (Argus, Emperor, Lizzy, and Chyme) because.. how will that stop them from Camping/Botting the Fantastic Four? They get Rare/EX item but still able to get the sellable item meaning they'd be more uber in Equipment and still monopolize the four items so thats a slap in our face.
But the chocobo game sounds fun ^^ Windurst --> Bastok = 2 hours of JOYYY
But the chocobo game sounds fun ^^ Windurst --> Bastok = 2 hours of JOYYY
@_@ whoa very informative article. man i wish i could make that much money. just........whoa @_@
Changes to items?????? I hope they don't make lizzy boots and emp hairpin rare/ex. I still have two of each loned out to people. :(
They're making the NMs that drop the emp pin, leaping boots, and peacock charm drop other, new items that are rare/ex and which have the same or similar stats to the other items.
The emp pin, leaping boots, and peacock charm will be obtainable through a new method.
If this is anything like astral rings, which were taken out of Oztroja and put in BCs, then the prices of these three items will skyrocket so high you'll never be able to get them.
Also, don't count on your ability to camp the NMs for the new rare/ex items. If you're a black or red mage you'll understand the pain of trying to get a Moldavite Earring.
lol just think how full the maze is gonna be for the next month. JP's galore will be exploiting there faster ISP time with the servers. I'd be surprised even with the rare/ex if any NA gets a "new peacock charm" for the next month or so.
How could SE not know about gilsellers? And how could they not prove it? FFS http://www.ffxi.com/ is owned and operated gilselling website. They could easily hirer someone to be like pretending to buy gil and catch the IP addresses or whatever in the transaction like real life cop stuff or something lol
But think of it like this, SE needs gilsellers and won't do anything about it not because they can't, but because why would they? It's the gilbuyers that are keeping the gilsellers alive. It's the gilsellers that are keeping SE's bi-weekly paycheque alive. If there were no gilsellers, do you think there would be as many people as there are playing the game? I mean, for those that don't "work hard for their money" and take the lazy way out... they wouldn't be here if it hadn't been for gilsellers they buy there gil from.
Out of all this mess, updates ******** up drop rates, and spawn times, etc... I just wanna know why Utesumi-Ichi (spelling?) costs as much as it does now when there has never been any change or update change or any drop rate on it (considering it's a Norg quest) No factors has been changed, and saying "the economy is going up, so should everything else" shouldn't be the excuse being used to factor that reason.
I dunno about alot of the updates coming in the future, or what will be produced by today's hours of updates, but I hope it'll bring the giant inflation down to a norm.
In conclusion... here's a little 'remember back in the day' memories:
::Back in the day::
Lvl 1-10 leveling in South Gustaberg/North Gustaberg as a Bastokian. I remember coming back from a good couple hours of leveling and sticking 3-5 stacks of Fire Crystals on the AH of Bastok, and logging on next day to a HUGE 2k from each stack sold. OMGZ I was so psyched, and bought my first spell with my earnings.
::Now::
Fire Crystals 4-6k a stack, 500-1000g individually
::Back in the day::
As a WHM Hume, alot can relate that MP is what it's all about (at least that's my opinion) Astral Rings were an enormous 200k a pop! For a low level WHM who farmed beehive chips and honey from S. Gusta, and mined for my money, that was ALOT of hours and pickaxes. I remember thinking, I'm never gonna have enough to get those cool rings. Then it happened, a person was shouting in Bastok that they were quitting, and I got 2 Astral Rings from them for 180k each!! I was like, OMGZ I JUST Have enough (after months of farming and actually putting in time to get gil) I bought them in a heart beat and still have them (WHM72)
::Now::
1 Astral Ring almost a mil, and probably not breaking a mil cause of cost to list it :/ (Jeuno AH)
Oh the memories...
I hope gilsellers / botters don't benefit from this update.
But think of it like this, SE needs gilsellers and won't do anything about it not because they can't, but because why would they? It's the gilbuyers that are keeping the gilsellers alive. It's the gilsellers that are keeping SE's bi-weekly paycheque alive. If there were no gilsellers, do you think there would be as many people as there are playing the game? I mean, for those that don't "work hard for their money" and take the lazy way out... they wouldn't be here if it hadn't been for gilsellers they buy there gil from.
Out of all this mess, updates ******** up drop rates, and spawn times, etc... I just wanna know why Utesumi-Ichi (spelling?) costs as much as it does now when there has never been any change or update change or any drop rate on it (considering it's a Norg quest) No factors has been changed, and saying "the economy is going up, so should everything else" shouldn't be the excuse being used to factor that reason.
I dunno about alot of the updates coming in the future, or what will be produced by today's hours of updates, but I hope it'll bring the giant inflation down to a norm.
In conclusion... here's a little 'remember back in the day' memories:
::Back in the day::
Lvl 1-10 leveling in South Gustaberg/North Gustaberg as a Bastokian. I remember coming back from a good couple hours of leveling and sticking 3-5 stacks of Fire Crystals on the AH of Bastok, and logging on next day to a HUGE 2k from each stack sold. OMGZ I was so psyched, and bought my first spell with my earnings.
::Now::
Fire Crystals 4-6k a stack, 500-1000g individually
::Back in the day::
As a WHM Hume, alot can relate that MP is what it's all about (at least that's my opinion) Astral Rings were an enormous 200k a pop! For a low level WHM who farmed beehive chips and honey from S. Gusta, and mined for my money, that was ALOT of hours and pickaxes. I remember thinking, I'm never gonna have enough to get those cool rings. Then it happened, a person was shouting in Bastok that they were quitting, and I got 2 Astral Rings from them for 180k each!! I was like, OMGZ I JUST Have enough (after months of farming and actually putting in time to get gil) I bought them in a heart beat and still have them (WHM72)
::Now::
1 Astral Ring almost a mil, and probably not breaking a mil cause of cost to list it :/ (Jeuno AH)
Oh the memories...
I hope gilsellers / botters don't benefit from this update.
skill may be greater then egar... but the greater gear STILL out performs a skillful player in the hands of the skillful player... so while gear shouldnt guide all decisions it SHOULD be considered... ebcasue lets face it... id rather have a good thief with great gear doing 1000+++ dmg then a good thief with bad gear doing 700-800 or even a bad thief with good gear...
even so, skill should be among the rgeatest considerations... even a finacially poor player can get decent equipment with enough effort.
even so, skill should be among the rgeatest considerations... even a finacially poor player can get decent equipment with enough effort.
Wow. I just got home from work.
The way that the following items are acquired has been changed:
Archer Ring, Leaping Boots, Emperor Hairpin, Peacock Charm
In addition, players may receive an EX/Rare or EX item with the same attributes from the monsters who previously dropped each of the above items.
My entire mindset of this post is changed.
/slap to Gilsellers everywhere!
The way that the following items are acquired has been changed:
Archer Ring, Leaping Boots, Emperor Hairpin, Peacock Charm
In addition, players may receive an EX/Rare or EX item with the same attributes from the monsters who previously dropped each of the above items.
My entire mindset of this post is changed.
/slap to Gilsellers everywhere!
What is really messed up to make sniper's rings you need archer's rings and they all ready sell 2k over what snipers sell for...
As far as the other stuff going rare/ex It works for me, cause i'm only wearing rare/ex gear if i can help it.
As far as the other stuff going rare/ex It works for me, cause i'm only wearing rare/ex gear if i can help it.
Quote:
If you've been pissed off by a gilseller or botter, stop hoping SE will come and save the day, because they won't. You have to fight back. Bring friends to the camp, do whatever.
If you're curious as to how to get back at gilsellers, I'm not going to just TELL you what to do. Some things I will say:
1.) If a mob attacks you and you shadowbind or bind it near another player, it will attack them even if they haven't done anything to them. You better watch out for that...
2.) If you just happen to get a huge train of top tier Orcs in Davoi at Poisonhand camp and you can't seem to get rid of them, try Deodorize + Hide...
3.) Pefect Dodge + Warp can get you out of rather nasty situations, leaving whatever you had on you still in the area.
I'm not saying to necessarily DO these things to the botter or gilsellers, just stating that these things can happen "accidentally" often. Remember, we have loop holes too...
So basically, if you're upset about gilsellers and bots, do something about it. Because SE literally CAN'T do anything about it.
If you're curious as to how to get back at gilsellers, I'm not going to just TELL you what to do. Some things I will say:
1.) If a mob attacks you and you shadowbind or bind it near another player, it will attack them even if they haven't done anything to them. You better watch out for that...
2.) If you just happen to get a huge train of top tier Orcs in Davoi at Poisonhand camp and you can't seem to get rid of them, try Deodorize + Hide...
3.) Pefect Dodge + Warp can get you out of rather nasty situations, leaving whatever you had on you still in the area.
I'm not saying to necessarily DO these things to the botter or gilsellers, just stating that these things can happen "accidentally" often. Remember, we have loop holes too...
So basically, if you're upset about gilsellers and bots, do something about it. Because SE literally CAN'T do anything about it.
Guess you don't realize that you can be penalized for MPKing (warning [first offense], 72 hour ban [second offense], perm. ban [thrid offense]).
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