Attention Players of Shiva, A Petition to SEFollow

Sophus, you sound like a pretty good person/player, but what you are doing in PT is NOT just helping RNG. Why do you see it as that? You are not just helping your melee, you are helping yourself also. The faster your melee kills the mob, the faster you the puller can pull, the more XP you get. I understand what you are saying, but don't make it seem one sided. Thats like me saying I'm strickly helping out my WHM by trying to kill the mob fast. No, I'm helping everyone on the team including myself. We are out there trying to get XP, not take a stroll through the tulips.

Acepod, bring yer noise. Cohle made some really good pwns...er, points on his post. Much better than I made.

Acepod, I agree with you that RNG should not be able to do that well on IT+++s, but outdamage you? Yes, a RNG was meant for power. Most ppl can match and outdamage a RNG anyway, before patch. If I'm swinging and axe while someone next to me is paying per shot, I'd have to wonder why the hell he wants to pay per shot to do DMG when he can swing and axe like me.

And your 25% to lvl 75 theory is pretty ignorant. You mean to tell me that you don't want to get to lvl 75? That's almost everyone's goal. Why do you make a PT?

I do agree with you about harder to reach max potential, but that max is gone to be honest, though RNG can still do pretty well.

Acepod, if SE nerfed WAR's DMG by..let's say 10%, and made Dual Wield as slow as DWI, and made you have to distance yourself slightly away from the mob so your elbows won't get in the way...restricting your "full potential of DMG", you mean to tell me that YOU wouldn't be pissed? Of course you would.

And Nieko...

My WHM/WAR is still waiting on you....

Well, the only reason I can warrant using Sole or Squid +1 is that:
a) you made it yourself
b) you are rich
c) you want to show off
d) you happen to have it and think the PT is worth it
e) all of the above

To be honest, I think most choose c). They give like what, 1% more ACC and 1 more DEX? It's really not economical to buy that, unless you have stashes of cash. I want to see what Acepod buys "per PT" since he is supposed spending 120k per PT. I know you can't eat a whole stack of Sole +1s in one sitting, if that's what you REALLY buy. Buying it 3-4 times don't count. I'm talking about your usual XP PT supplies. I can tell you mine off hand.

As RNG:
7 Stacks of Silver Bullets---130k-140k
1 Stack of Shihei-----------7-9k
2 Bison Steaks-------------8k
(anything else, I don't totally consume in one PT, so its not included)

So thats almost at 160k per PT with RNG. I didn't mind at first, because I got my money's worth. But if you are spending that and you are not a RNG or NIN, you must be getting your food out of god's kitchen. Must be good.

I think a good PT BEGINS with a good attitude. You need to be able to play with others and such, because unless we all go BST, we won't make it far. That's the double-edge of FFXI. Skill is next.

And one more thought. I still wonder why ppl say "RNGs take my spot in a PT." RNGs are NOT the problem. It's the lack of mages and tanks. I think SE needs to introduce another tank/type job. It really sucks looking for PT, when you see a bunch of DD and a BLM or two, which happens a lot on this game. Which is also a reason why mages probably don't have to fear a nerf, because the game needs more. I tell you, if there were more mages, you wouldn't hear half as many complaints about ppl LFG. I think thats what SE needs to introduce on the next update. The new jobs that are coming should be mage-type, a tank-type, and a hybrid-type. Please bring teh Time Mages and Geomancers!! Haste III {Do you need it?} That's one mage job that I do want to be.

Wow, just a thought. If SE introduced Time Mages, what abilities do you think they should have? I think they should have an ability/spell to reset a member's Job Ability timers. It should have a decent recast time like 2 minutes or so, but the mage could haste III himself/herself, cutting the time to like a minute. That would be too cool, plus it would warrant a good reason to have a Time Mage in a PT.

A SMN CAN be a decent healer in the right PT. That usually happens when you have a shortage of mages, you have to make due. The other night, I couldn't find a PLD or NIN, so I decided to try to get 2 WAR/NINs to bounce hate. This was at lvl 61. You have to make due when there is nothing else available.

The reason why I felt that RNGs DOES deserve to do high DMG is simple. Ever since I started the game, RNGs were the melee that usually had the highest DMG potential, as there is ALWAYS a job that does the most DMG. BLM was the most powerful job though. I didn't want to be a BLM, so I decided to go RNG. I soon realized that RNG isn't the type of job that I could just "go play". I had to constantly buy ammo just to play, which is why I didn't level my RNG so fast as most ppl think. It was a frail job that really couldn't survive without its team. Though it had the defensive abilities of a BLM, it had power to balance it with.

To "level" the playing field is an interesting thought. Again, RNGs DID need a nerf on
IT+++s, but NOT on base DMG and ACC. Is the game fair? Of course not. There's jobs that still need a few things IMO. DRG need access to more STR/ATT type gear. THF needs a special bonus (not Assassin) on SATA, or another type of SA move to still have a viable position in PTs since any melee, except RNG, can /THF past lvl 60 and do there job...sometimes better.

The RNG nerf will change RNGs of course. In about a 2-3 weeks, it won't be such a big deal. But I really feel sorry for those RNGs trying to lvl 1-10. As if it was already hard. Luckily, RNGs can still solo on non-moving targets like worms. I really liked being a RNG. But now I don't know if I want to put so much into the job knowing that it got kicked hard.

Again, what is the point of everyone doing the "same" DMG? Because it's still not true. Make THF's melee attacks the same power of a WAR or MNK. Make DRG's WS the same power as a DRK's. The idea of a "level playing field" does not exist. Jobs are different for a reason. To add variety. People complain about RNG's taking "their" spots in a PT. Ok, a RNG is in a arrowburn PT. They complain about THAT. Again, it isn't RNG's fault. It's the lack of tanks and mages. There DOES need to be another viable option for a tank. Hopefully, with the big update, SE will offer one...or two.

Look at this thought. A PLD is a great tank. Very safe, holds hate the best and has the best natural DEF. PLD is not a very expensive job, but it does what it does the best. NIN, on the other hand, is a bit different. It isn't so safe and NIN's can't hold and get hate back like a PLD can. NIN is VERY expensive, but NIN's also offer perhaps the BEST abilities to get good chains in a PT, since they don't get hit much, down time is almost none. Now, why would someone constantly pay for Ninja tools to tank? Do you think there would be as many NINs if they weren't a polar opposite from PLDs, med DEF--but high chains? Lets just make those two jobs the same in everyway, except the NIN still has to continuously pay for tools to do what PLDs do without them.

Even before I became a RNG. I simply respected them because they were willing to pay for DMG that I could do for "free". I don't know. Maybe if I didn't level the job, I'd agree with you more. But maybe if you leveled the job, you'd agree with me more. RNGs WERE too strong on gods. Its not fair for a RNG to do 100 DMG and a DRK or SAM does 0's and 8's. But come on, on a VT? Barrage is worthless, and WS's miss a bit too much to say you are fighting VTs with +150 TP, +70 RACC, and in "the zone".

People will always complain about a change. Remember when SE made the TNL requirements lower? You had a bunch of high levels pissed off. But to just tell some one "STFU and suck it up" (Acepod), isn't needed. Words like that make even a Dune's dweller without a subjob look bad.




Edited, Sat Jul 30 09:01:40 2005 by BarchielReturns

{Ranger} {Death} {Can I have it?}

Sorry all you RNGs, but other than my 29 BST which I solo, I am also leveling my 34 DRK. And it's a real {Bio}tch to get a party especially (pre-update) when there were RNGs seeking.

I, for one, am DAMN glad RNG finally got nerfed. Gives the other melee jobs like WAR, MNK, DRG, SAM, and DRK a much better chance of landing a party spot, instead of being overlooked because a RNG is seeking. Especially since I'm considering taking not only DRK, but WAR and MNK to high levels, I could use as much party experience points I can get.

{Good job!} Square Enix! {You can have this.} {/praise}

I love the Ranger "nerf" as you guys are calling it. Why?

Because the good Rangers still do the same damage as they always did. If you're having trouble finding the "sweet spot" on a mob, get the new windower, which has a distance gauged factor in it (download to see what I'm talking about). Find out what the "sweet spot" is, and just stand in it perfectly.

This update to Rangers really just made it to where you had to have skill to be a Ranger, and not just have alot of gil.

I'm very glad with the nerf, and I know soon we'll be seeing alot of Ranger/Blm (bind) in ballista that'll be kicking ***.

So, Bad Rangers are now (Too Weak) while good ones are still (Impossible to Gauge).

:laugh: acepod, i never once insulted you or your ability to do your job. but since you decided to do that to me, i'm going to retaliate.

it WAS possible for other melees to outdamage RNG pre-patch, it actually happened very often at your level and up. but since you can only outdamage the bad ones, i can only come to one conclusion from that. you suck. there are two reasons why an RNG outdamaging you "easilly" is still balanced. the first is he pays out his *** to do that kind of damage. the second is, he was probably just plain better than you. there how does that feel?

here is the point, just because you personally may not understand how BAD the update is does not make you right. honestly, PLAY RNG and quit acting. you dont see everything an RNG does, you dont count all the hits he made, and didnt make. what ACC nerf? ROFL. never have i met such an ignorant fool in this game. it is infinitely frustrating to argue with people who just ASSUME everything is all hunky dory instead of actually checking facts and testing for themselves, as i said in another post on the RNG boards. ANY RNG, even the "good ones" who "dont complain" can tell you that there are PROBLEMS with this patch.

i dont know what magic this super RNG that you've partied with the past few days is employing to do what you say he does, but i find it VERY hard to believe as per my own experiences as an RNG post patch. my last party i played as RNG/WAR in monastic cavern where the mobs are IT+ so i should have good ACC and damage against them under what has been said about the update. and even with full ACC gear and prelude from a bard, inside and outside the sweet spot, i still missed sidewinders more than i have in any situation pre-patch. i would like to know this magical RNGs name so i can find out what he knows that i dont. oh wait, i forgot, i just plain suck. *rolleyes*

i'm done arguing with you acepod. the only thing that surpasses your ignorance is your stupidity.

Cohle, rangers are only "meant" to do damage because that's what most parties expect of them. However, through change (using bolts, /ja, different subs, etc), rangers actually have a far greater potential than most are willing to realize. It's the same w/ BLM.

Sure BLM get some powerful nukes so it only makes sense that it's their job to deal damage. But then again, they also get a hefty amount of enfeebling magic (whm gets the shaft on that one) as well as other spells--like tractor--which serve no purpose than to assist other mages. Should a BLM chose to only deal damage, they would lose out on a large amount of their potential.

Again, I'm saying this because I truly believe that this "nerf" changed the way a RNG should be played...and some RNG still can't or won't accept it. If the dynamics of something have changed, the only way to overcome it is to change the way you do things. You'll never accomplish anything by remaining static.

It doesn't seem like you are that type of player, Cohle, but many still think that RNG should only deal damage and complain when they miss or hit for a lower amount than expected. Maybe if they gave up that pure DD mindset it wouldn't be so hard of a hit?

Goblin Mushpot- Mind +10, Charisma -5, Resist Poison, Resist Blind

I know you were joking but that might be the best food you could use for White Magic based enfeebles.

Sorry scar, alot good mind and int do if your enfeebles don't land.

Enfeebling skill = the ability to land a debuff
Mind and Int = How stong the spell is (I.e The mob is paralized.)

-Calvern

sophus i hate to burst your bubble but the things you are talking about an RNG doing just arent practical. apart from shooting an acid bolt every now and then to weaken defense none of the things you've mentioned would actually work, and the one thing that actually does work most RNGs already do.

its like asking an MNK to sub NIN and spam debuffs. it just wont work.

you say that we should do away with this "pure DD" mentality, i cant help but laugh at that comment. honestly, what do you expect an RNG to do? we cant tank, we cant MB, we cant heal. the only thing we can do is shoot arrows and SC. thats always been the case. now there's little to no incentive to play the job because we only cause problems for a party, while at the same time only being "on par" with another more manageable jobs damage. and oh, did i mention, the RNG is paying 2-3x what that normal melee pays? i think i did...

I'm sorry Cohle, but your a whiny little *****. You have been presented with a challenge, and instead of taking on the challenge, you just sit around and whine and ******* cry about your poor Nerf. Get the **** over it!!! It is done, over, there is nothing you can do to change it, so either adapt, or drown like the whining ***** you are portraying yourself to be (this is the way YOU" have made yourself look from YOUR posts!!). When people make good points, you simply call them stupid and ignorant. When people make suggestions you tell them off because there not RNG. I know a lot of RNG's, i have visited the RNG forum numerous times since the update. Your one of the very few RNG i see whining and crying about how it *used to be*. Most RNG are instead finding ways to over come the change, and your just stuck on the good ole days. Your a pessimist i see, and extremly hard headed to boot.

I laugh at you insulting me, because i know im a damn good WAR. I also know that RNG isnt nearly as bad as your makeing out to be. If you dont want to spend the gil, then dont spend it. Play something else, or for crying out loud quit the damn game!! I know RNG is not what it used to be, and so does everyone else, but you seem to be one of the very few still stuck on whining and crying about it.

GET OVER YOURSELF !!!!

Even Barchiel (the kind of never ending arguments), knows that he needs to adapt, and move on. Get a clue !