Attention Players of Shiva, A Petition to SEFollow

Pirates!

You can't hump pirates. Their parrots will bite off your ******.

Ya and when is SE gonna add more enfeebling magic gear (Not counting wise since it's unclear what Magic Acc really is). I mean haven't rdm's endgame on hard mobs been gimped long enough, I mean I wanna be like Rng and have and be able to do my main job role and not become a second rate bench warmer....(Oh refresh, yay -_-).

Welcome to the nerf side of the fence rangers, hot choco to the left and cookies on the right.

P.S Am I for or against this patch, I could careless, I'm whining about all the other jobs who don't see much action. Who invites a rdm to a HNM when you got a brd there. Brds can do their job, rdms can't debuff without casting the same spell 20+ times or burning E-seal.

-Calvern

Just to clear a couple things up:

1) When I refer to tanking, I do not specifically mean holding a monster onto you for an extended period of time with the intent on keeping hate away from all players. That's something that a paladin/nin/etc would do. Instead, I mean intentionally pulling hate so that the monster is purposefully focused on you for even a short period of time. This can be for SATA, to get the mob off mages, to save the tank, or for any other reason.

Any time you choose to have the monster attack you instead of someone else, that is a good definition of tanking. BLMs don't intentionally choose to have monsters attack them, and when they get hate they try to shed it as soon as possible. RNG, however, will often intentially pull hate for any number of reasons. Yes, utsusemi sheds hate now, but the RNG is still tanking the mob until the PLD/NIN/etc pulls it back onto themselves.

2) Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that I had seen them magic burst either status and/or elemental damage. However, I could be mistaken.

I do know from experience as a bard, though, that the effectiveness of bolts can be increased through the use of etudes and threnodies. So maybe it's in the bard's dynamics to take this into account more so that he/she can help out the ranger? After all, most bards only ballad mages and minuet/madrigal the melee. There's no reason that they can't do more.

3) You're right, 30-40 health per arrow may not sound like a lot. But if you toss a regen 1 or 2 on top of it, you're looking at the overall effect of a Cure 2 or 3 but for a fraction of the MP cost. If you add things like threnodies or etudes, I'd assume this amount would go up as well? After that, they could switch back to whatever ammo they were using.

It's not the most practical, I know, but chances are that after the RNG has gotten hit the tank will have regained hate and the RNG will no longer be taking damage for some time (if at all).

4) Yeah, I'm aware of the two choices...that's why I'm so adamantly pointing out potential alternatives. I believe that there is a third or even fourth choice out there. It just hasn't been found yet :)

On a side note, RDM has to carry 2 sets of equipment: melee and mage. Why can't RNG do the same: damage and acc? Given recent market prices this could get quite costly, but it is still conceivable.

sophus,

1) thats not tanking, thats surviving. an RNG or another DD might pull hate off of someone else because they can outlast the mob a bit longer than a taru BLM or WHM, but that doesnt entail tanking. and post patch, an RNGs ability to effectively turn a mob is greatly reduced -_-

2) yes the effectiveness of arrows is boosted by boosting certain stats such as STR, or MND for holy bolts. i thought that was a given. that is also a strategy that most RNGs already employ (ever wonder why a high level RNG would wear suzaku's sun ate and devotees mitts), but like everything else it is little help post patch. holy bolts are still good, they were good pre-patch for RNG. but their effectiveness has been greatly reduced because it wasnt the added effect damage alone that made them good. an o-bow equipped RNG spamming holy bolts would hit for around 70-80, and with proper MND gear have an added affect of 30-40. totally the same damage as say, a silver bullet, but doing it a lot faster than a gun pre-patch. post patch its more like 50-60 regular damage and the same added effect. factor in misses from the already somewhat innacurate crossbows, and we have a nerf.

3) at high levels, a cure 2 or 3 could be inbound from a mage much faster than an RNG could fire those arrows, and the MP cost of a cure II or III from a mage is not going to be that great. in emergency situations where there is no cure II or cure III coming bloody bolts can be used. this is again another tactic that RNGs already make use of. but this entire remark completely digresses from the point of this post in the first place, so i'm not going to continue with it.

lastly most RNG, myself included, already do things like that and did do them pre-patch. involves things like bringing different food and having macro switches for WSes and everything. doesnt help us much in countering this nerf.


acepod, if i'm such an idiot why do you even bother to continue arguing with me? actually your arguments arent so much arguments as incoherent babble, so i dont know that i should give you the credit by using that word. this entire thread all you have done is tell people to stop whining. you have brought nothing constructive to the table. and while whining may not be the most constructive thing in the world, arguing that people shouldnt whine is just as bad, if not worse. it does nothing but fan the flames when people like me read the posts of ignorant people like you and want to call you out for being such a dumbass. nobody wants the two cents of an assinine ignorant ****** of a flamer. i'm going to say it one more time. rather than continue your ever so eloquent (BUH BUH BUH I HEARD THAT YOU'RE WRONG IDIOT WHINER) tirade, do us all a favor, and

shut

the

****

up.

So much fun :)



Nope, a mage casting blink + stoneskin in case they pull aggro is surviving. A rng doing it for the express purpose of starting a SC taking over for a tank is tanking.



You'd be surprised. Not everyone who plays RNG actually cares about RNG. They did it because they could be mediocre and still outdamage everyone. So you may assume that this is a given...it is not.




Correct, it is faster--but with utsusemi up and not taking, do you really need fast MP? I've seen rangers go @ 50% health an entire battle and not get healed simply because they never took damage. Using those bolts could have been an easy way to heal themselves, rather than waiting for a mage.


And for bar...



Please read what I said before saying I was giving good but old news. Cohle thought that when I said "tank" I meant "being the main tank." I was simply clearing up my tefinition and his definition of tanking.



Like I said, I could have been mistaken. However, I don't quite know why elemental effects can't MB with bolts. Personally, I think they should be able to.



Ummm...minuet? VM is attack, bud :). Blade and Sword Madrigals would increase acc, but not racc. However, using a song like Quick Etude/Dragonfo Mambo (I forget if it's agi or eva that increases racc) and Prelude would increase their acc greatly. I've also done Spirited Etude for holy bolts and it works wonders. This would be where a good brd and a good rng working together would rock.

As far as playing the job, it's not necessary to play the job to offer suggestions. Understanding the dynamics is really all you need :). But one thing that you and Cohle are on agreance on is that RNG do the same things that you do. I don't know if you guys are both really luck or what, but I have only seen one MAYBE 2 rangers with more than one trick up their sleeve. If everyone was as ready as you, I doubt any of this would be an issue.

Oh yeah btw, BRING IT ON, NEWBS!!! Two-on-1 is easy...anyone else want to join in?

/em buffs up

To be personally honest this "RNG NERF" Is not all that heart breaking. Yes it does suck in some ways now that ranger is "gimped" But as a 75 rng my self I have only realized damage difference fighting Gods / HNM, which really isn't that bad either. Personally it is now more of a challenge to play RNG this way.... I was still doing 1k+ Slug shots on deco weapons in exp at sky, so it makes no difference in exp if you know what your doing. Kiting anything just makes it a challenge, just have fun with it people :p if you can't take it, don't play ranger ^^

bar, just stop arguing. You've proven your point and everyone knows that after 75lvls with a job you're pretty much an expert. Someone who has never played the job, and is telling you how to play the job isn't worth the time bro.

Wrip, point out one point where I specifically told him to do anything? I bet you can't find it.



Sorry I meant RDM or BRD, however a RDM/BRD can also etude. And yes, gravity lowers evasion...ask any RDM who's played the game for a while. You'll see *miss* *miss* *hit* *GRAVITY* *hit* *miss* *hit*. Why else do you think RDM cast gravity in XP and skillup PT? It's not just to see the mob move slow...



The majority of the points from the RNG were "ohhh RNG is nerfed ohhh it's so bad ooohhhh the reality!" The non-RNG that you mentioned were "it's not as bad as you think, quit complaining." Mine were "you can try doing this? or you can try this?" Though mine were constructive, to you they can never work NOT because you've tried it, but because you are the RNG and you know better. (Read it, that's how you come across.) Conversely, I HAVE tried many of the things that I've said and they DO work and they have worked. Are you unwilling or afraid to admit that you may not have all the answers and a non-rng may?

As far as not knowing RNG or--more importantly--my own job, I don't see where you are getting this. You present me with any situation and I have a plan, a backup plan, and a backup backup plan. That's what's required of me, and that's what I do. Unless it's simply a crappy day, you will never find a party complaining about me, nor wanting more. That being said, I don't know if you are saying what you do because you're being stubborn or if you are truly naive to anything non-rng. Non-RNG does NOT = they can never understand my pain! If you feel that way, become a dark knight (more for the psychological reasons than the gameplay :) ). What I don't undestand is why would you attack the non-rng who offers sugestions, yet praise the RNGs who offer nothing but self-loathing pity?

Through my job choices, I have to bring out the best of EVERY other member. Without understanding those jobs, how could I do it? I'm not just concerned with helping the tank tank, I've got to help the mages heal/nuke, the melee do damage faster and more effectively. I also have to make sure that everyone survives and all outside conditions (links, adds, respawn times, etc) are taken care of. My actions affect every single member of the party. Rather than saying that I don't understand, you should try playing as RDM or BRD and see the underbelly of the party that you so easily dismiss?

One last thing. I have never said that RNG was the entire party, nor have I ever implied it. The way you speak of it though, the more you make it sound like the entire pt was (or should have been) centered around RNG. To you, by nerfing RNG, the entire party system is now screwed over. Yes, RNG do less damage on Gods, or some HNM (but I have not seen much of an effect on everyday XP if done correctly). Yes they must also move around. Well let's look at another job.

My BRD currently has 58+44 CHR (almost as much as you possibly get at that level (and still have a reasonable amount of MP) and my instrument/song skill was near max. I can't attack, I can't nuke, all I can do is run around. Well despite all that gear, yesterday I was being resisted to all hell in an XP party by monsters within a few levels of me. Why? I couldn't tell you. You'd think with all of those mods I would have been performing better. After all, why shouldn't I be able to debuff a certain level mob, yet a RNG can still perform as if nothing had changed? Should I be complaining that I spent millions in CHR gear and staves just to get resisted? No, I shouldn't. That's just the way it goes sometimes.

Bar, you can continue to attack the things I say or you can accept that neither I--nor the rest of the server--are going anywhere. As long as people are complaining about situations, someone is going to be there to offer suggestions on how to overcome. After that, you can either:

1) Accept what we say as suggestions that may/may not work. Try them out before dismissing because they are made for your benefit and not ours or

2) Not accept what we say because we're not RNG and you know better. Instead, we should be belittled, told we don't know our own jobs and should shut up and go back to our Brady Games guides.

I don't care how many jobs you have to 75, the second you stop listening is the second you stop growing.

Just a couple things I found:

* I decided to look at the RNG forums and this was on the top of the list. It's someone's parser to show DMG dealed by RNG versus other jobs and other players with the same job. The stats are impressive.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=7&mid=1123360553189394640&num=5

*This one was a couple down on the list, but that's because the others were basic question threads (item x vs item y, etc). I'm posting it because some still choose not to listen to the words of non-RNG because they don't know enough to make judgements. It is the opinion of people who play the job and their take on how the patch has affected them. If you don't believe me, believe them.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=7&mid=1122500585824201140&num=22

Bar, again I apologize if you saw what I said as a personal attack; it was not meant to be. However today I came on after what my gf said and wanted to relay it to you. It was funny and I thought you might enjoy hearing it. For those of you not in the know, she saw me making that last post and made the off-beat comment that I spend more time writing to barchiel than to her. The sad thing was--at the time--it was true :)

When I debate someone, I try and remember to debate the issue and not the person. I do not see you as a threat, nor my enemy. I've never had a problem with you, nor will I. Like I said, when I logged on to let you know I was merely trying to be cordial...not to argue. Sorry if it got out of hand.

If you are ever up for debating anything in the future, you know where to find me. :)