Rules of EngagementFollow

I hope I'm not the only one that has certain "requirements" of a xp pt. I know it finally clicks with most over 60, that certain jobs are required in a xp pt. I am currently lvling PLD, after lvl 37 (flash) you notice your mp pool go down a bit faster than before. Once I reached the 40's all was better with refresh, but some ppl (usually the heavy seekers) think they are "useless". These are the types that we all know about, mages especially, mages get invites fast, for a reason. Incidents over time have made me write this, I'll start calling them "ghetto" pt's. A person sends u a /tell (usually some sort of DD) wanting to start a pt, he probably has his flag up at the time he asks you, no big deal hopefully he isn't an idiot. He begins to pick out 3 other DD's(most likely because they seeked all day too and attempted to make ghetto pt's themselves) meanwhile I start to wonder when will he/she get a mage. OK lets say there is no whm seeking, so before even thinking to wait for a whm to pop or even ask some that are in pt's when they will be finished, they immediatly goto SMN. And of course if there is no rdm seeking(even though they didn't look or even really attempt to in my opinion) they grab another misc. DD. My first thought is that they are new, they've learned this crap from the dunes and clutched onto it like it was gold knowledge. So i set a some requirements: 4 requirements, WHM, RDM, BLM, and mages would not be the highest lvl in the PT. If anyone paid attention when the game was released, this is how it was, JP's had made that rule, thats how they did things it wasn't definite, but it was extremely common. Granted, at this job new into the 40's almost all the rdm's melee, completely and totally forget their job, hell I even had one in PT that didn't even buy the scroll Paralyze. I have had a couple 75 jobs, but each time I lvl a new one to 75, I always ask several lvl75's of that job on advice for lvling, occasionally they will drop by to "observe". I think thats what a friend should do, if your doing something wrong, it's better to tell them early, or then u have the lvl 60+ job acting like they fresh out of the dunes. This may sound like a rant, but this "Ghetto" crap needs to die, and the knowledge w/it. NO! A smn cannot replace a whm. NO! I will not join a xp pt w/o any kind of refresh and expect to chain well. These ppl that seek all day (and ***** about it to everyone) need to get some "class", I would rather have an organized PT, then a 5 DD & 1 semi-healing job. I think they need to have a special moogle for these ppl, where they can pick up their once a week check from "SE Moogle" for all the ghetto asses out there that have 0 knowledge on how to build a PT. It's simple, if one's not avail, you wait til one is, losing patience and inviting another job to do the job you really need done is BS. I'm not naming ppl, way to dam many, I'm just hoping they will read this, and learn something. The downside to the "Ghetto PT leaders" is that they already know everything, It doesn't matter if they haven't finished LB1, they will tell you what you need to do on all your jobs that are already lvl75, these are the ******** that need to monitored, that way you can pre-blist them. Thats the end of my opinion, hopefully more will agree, than disagree. Take care ppl, cya on Shiva.

if a smn cant replace a whm then they should never get to 75.. lets see here typical pt setup:

Tank well obviously a smn cant do that
2 DDs usually melee jobs
refresher welp only a brd or rdm can fill that position
healer since a smn cant do it that only leaves whm
nuker blm smn cant hold that well cause they can only do blood pacts every 60 secs. heck at higher lvl 1-2 mins is all the time it takes to kill a mob (imma thf and ive never gotten sa or ta recharders a second time in the same fight after using it) and who wants a "blm" that can only nuke once a minute or in this case one a fight?.


So nthen where is a smns place in apt other than a gimped whm? The only reason i honestly look for whms for hours before inviting a smn is because i want the rb2 or 3 insurance just in case death ever happens... if i smn had both those spells id gladly take one in a second if no whms where seeking

really? i was under the impression that almost DD heavy parties will work faster than the "standard" setup. its no fun when your job is suddenly not required in a party, which makes the game harder for other jobs.

i managed to get a party in garliage (garliage for FFS) with 33-35 (me being the only 35, along with a SAM) and a PLD lv 33 tanking. the only other mage was a WHM and we managed fine.

now, i do not know for sure if this will hold true much later on, but killing faster should save mp compared to having someone refresh (which is always a plus, if you can freakin find one)

I've pretty much learned that if I make a party, there are two sacred rules regarding tanks:

1. PLD needs a RDM or BRD for refresh
2. NIN needs a THF for SATA and a second voker

That's why the tank is the first thing I figure out - it determines the rest of the pt setup. If there are no tanks seeking, I don't attempt to make a pt.

Not all parties will have a BLM. SMN can't "replace" BLM but can make a difference in a pt even if there is already a WHM. I believe it is unfair to ask a RDM to main heal in place of a WHM unless everyone is /NIN, simply because dispel/ refresh/ enfeebles/ MB/ haste is already quite a bit to worry about. I also think it's unwise to have more than 3, maybe 4, DD because whoever is healing is likely to run out of MP fast, especially if its not a taru.

If you have NIN, THF, WHM, BLM, and two open spots, you don't NEED a RDM or BRD even though it's nice. One more DD (with voke) and a SMN would round out the party pretty well, IMO.

But I understand what you're saying about unbalanced parties; the solution is not to leave town if you feel the setup won't work. Also, sometimes you can get your point across to the pt leader regarding what you need by saying it in /tell to make it stand out from the others and prevent them from contradicting you when you know better.

1) A good pld does not need refresh.
2) A good nin doesn't need a thief.

BUT EVERY PARTY SHOULD HAVE DISPEL. When I exp my pld (54) I occasionally put (/no) (Dispel) (No thanks.) or something along those lines. When you fight beetles with evasion bonus and crabs with defense bonus no dispel is what truly ruins the chances of the party doing well.

At the lower-mid levels it's a lot of work (and gear) for a melee to do good damage. It's not so hard for a blm to do this. A heavy DD party is not usually the best idea at these levels. A heavy DD party rocks at 75 however.

My main issue so far leveling pld is that the two melees in the party can only make like, scission. Thief is my main, I always had SATA to close a distortion chain and wow is that nice. A level 1 sc really isn't that great, please choose a combo of DD's that can make a level 2 sc, it makes things so much easier.

I've had kickass parties with 3 melee, 1 blm, and one bard. The bard was the main healer. No whm, no rdm, no smn, heck no 6th person. We got extraordinary experience.

4 melee, 1blm and 1 rdm...same experience as above.

3 melee, 1brd, 1blm, 1 smn...some of the best experience I've seen.

The only thing I can somewhat agree with the OP is that the tank should be a higher level than the mages...if they are a paladin. If it's a NIN tank--and they can keep hate--then it doesn't really matter.

I think that the problem isn't with whom you fight with (jobs), but what you fight with and where you fight it:

*If these "ghetto" parties are ghetto because of the players' abilities then it's just because of that Their job choice has little or no bearing. They would probably suck even if you had a whm.

*Many are still stuck on the "ok we have our party, now where's the hardest place we can battle--and still live--syndrome." There's nothing wrong with finding an open spot with several T-IT and chaining them in <1 min per battle. Your overall experience will be more, you'll chain higher than 5, and there won't be any need to spam cure spells. You also get more drops.

*Nothing says that you need 6 people to perform, either. Sometimes 4-5 people killing weaker mobs works just as well as 6 people killing IT. It's also easier on your main healer.

Maybe I'm just being difficult? I do often tend to disagree when people say that things *need* to be a certain way. I also tend to disagree when people say that they *need* to be a certain way because some other power ordained it to be so.

The short of it is, I've had just about every type of party setup you can imagine. One setup worked great in one area, but it sucked in another; sometimes the people (and their abilities) were the same. It all came down to what we fought and where we fought it.

Edited, Tue Sep 13 10:39:21 2005 by SophusTehNewb

I don't know. To be honest, the only jobs "required" is a TANK and a HEALER, that's it. Everything else just makes the fight flow better.

I've made 2 WAR/NIN, 2 THF, 2 BRD PTs before at lvl 37 that kicks all kinds of ***. Also NIN, THF, SAM, BLM, 2 BRD PT at lvl 60ish.

I think you should make your PT according to where you want to PT. Don't go somewhere that you need constant Dispel if you don't have a RDM or BRD.

To be honest, I think in some PTs, SMN kick *** as a main healer. But its according to PT set up/camp.

You are calling the ppl that seek for hours "lazy", but what if there isn't the "required set-up" seeking like you just said. I see why they would seek if they were looking for something perfect. Sometimes you just gotta take what you can get and make the best of it.

Hahaha, I remember having a WAR/NIN, MNK/WAR, RNG/NIN, 2 BLM and WHM PT that rocked, with no Refresh. LOL, and EVERYONE was pulling, except the WHM. It was at Bibiki Bay fighting Catas. The WAR, MNK and I just played volleyball with the mobs, and near death the BLM would nuke the living hell out of it as we pull. Much fun. I can understand if you get pissed about n00bs though, but don't be so harsh. It's a game, have fun. Be n00bish, lol.

All i gotta say is this :
* party of lvl 52-54 *

whm/blm
rdm/blm
sam/war
thf/nin
nin/war
AND
*nin/blm
^
|
see this job here.

that nin/blm did more dmg than any blm or thf or any DD ive ever seen. this party was so insane i couldnt belive my eyes.
very impressive.
at first glance it seemed like an ok party but didnt know how it would work, but hey, lets give it a shot right. well if you ever wanna see a ninja sit back and just cast ninjitsu you will see the next main DD. Given the NIN had mostly INT gear and use Elemental staffs. yea i said odd also. but it was great. ( this nin told me that he rarely gets invites cuz of his blm sub. that he has to make his own partys )

well good luck in your regular partys with your regular jobs.



BTW if you ever see shaady lfp, try him out for a DD, it will make you happy to see what ninjitsu's full potency can do.

Holy.. I was expecting to get Karma nuked with my post but I got rated up? Wtf? XD Thanks guys, lol.

and yeah, I agree with Ladyofhonor about the dispel part. When I built parties as a white mage and as my first job, I always invited rdms and brds for dispel first, that was way more important to me than refresh. Refresh does help though, but it's not needed. I did fine before it, and I do fine without it. On missions, HNMs, Sky, that kind of thing.. Refresh is a necessity. But in a regular party, I can manage my MP fine without Refresh.