Semi-rant.
I am finding 350+ leatherworking to be a total pain. I'm kind of curious if all the crafting professions are in the same fix.
First, it takes a long time to grind the mats needed for a single skill point. This seems to be a real contrast to the 275-300 levels. It took effort, but no where near as ridiculous as the 350+ levels. In comparison, grinding in Winterspring enabled my to level up 275-300 relatively quickly. Now, each point takes hours and hours of grinding.
Second, another bad part is the all the primals needed for things. Some are reasonably cheap, but others are outrageous and/or the drop rates for motes are so bad that it takes forever to grind for them. The availability of mobs that drop certain motes are very limited and they're constantly camped, making it all the more difficult.
Third, most of the things we can craft are worthless or have no market. BoP items or items that require 350+ LW to get the bonuses. What's the point of that? If someone's 350+ LW, they'll make it themselves.
In my opinion, high end crafting (at least leatherworking) needs revised. It sure seems like a lot of effort to expend to get to 350+ only to have the profession be mostly irrelevant/useles. Just curious if others are experiencing the same frustration.
Edited, Jun 4th 2007 2:45pm by azwing
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Imo the primals are what makes crafting skills in 300+ range, particularly 350+, be a real effort. It’s not enough to collect 10 motes, which in previous recipes, 10 of a material might be enough for 10 items and 8-10 skill points. Instead, it has to be 10 motes, to make 1 primal, which then becomes the material, along with other stuff, to make one something.
Getting a random 10 motes when you’re just out questing and leveling seems fine. You don’t really pay attention to the time involved, because you had to kill things anyway, on your way to something else. It’s when you know you have to go out and get 100 of them to make 10 primals that the exasperating part settles in, and you’ve been killing elementals for the last few hours.
From my experience with engineering and JC, it follows the same path that you described, so it’s a good chance the other trade skills are similar. Alchemy may have some recipes with primals, but I was able to get 375 just from straight herb recipes. Now this is more like the old days, hehe.
While that makes getting to 375 a great effort to be congratulated, it’s a reminder that WoW seems to mix up good casual skill-crafting with long tedious grinding without much warning.
Thanks for the heads up on tailoring…I contemplated this skill but now will think twice about it. I’m already in the long run for JC and engineering..I’ll probably need a break before I tackle LW or Tailoring, then, if it involves more primal farming (or massive amounts of leather and cloth).
Edited, Jun 5th 2007 10:52am by bluegayle
Getting a random 10 motes when you’re just out questing and leveling seems fine. You don’t really pay attention to the time involved, because you had to kill things anyway, on your way to something else. It’s when you know you have to go out and get 100 of them to make 10 primals that the exasperating part settles in, and you’ve been killing elementals for the last few hours.
From my experience with engineering and JC, it follows the same path that you described, so it’s a good chance the other trade skills are similar. Alchemy may have some recipes with primals, but I was able to get 375 just from straight herb recipes. Now this is more like the old days, hehe.
While that makes getting to 375 a great effort to be congratulated, it’s a reminder that WoW seems to mix up good casual skill-crafting with long tedious grinding without much warning.
Thanks for the heads up on tailoring…I contemplated this skill but now will think twice about it. I’m already in the long run for JC and engineering..I’ll probably need a break before I tackle LW or Tailoring, then, if it involves more primal farming (or massive amounts of leather and cloth).
Edited, Jun 5th 2007 10:52am by bluegayle
350+ is still fine.
Wait till you get to 370. In my opinion those last 5 skill points are the hardest and most painful part of entire skills raising.
Took me 9 Imbued Netherweave Robes to get from 370 to 375. Each robe is 108 cloth, 2 silks and 12 arcane dusts. Now try and count the expense and time needed to farm 1000 netherweave cloth.
Raising alchemy wasnt much better but then I had herbalism and didnt have to buy herbs in AH. Still I think its farming endless Terocones to make useless haste potions (the only yellow recipe I had at that time) that actually got me sick and tired of herbalism.
I am orientated on making Primal Mights now, what means I have to spend at least 2 hours a day farming primals.
I dont hate farming so much but I could think of some better ways of spending my time too.
But, however pita getting to endgame tradeskilling is, if it was easier it wouldnt be worth that much would it? Everyone would have acces to everything with little or no effort and trust me you wouldnt be so proud of whatever BoP epic made by your own hands you are wearing if you saw everyone else having it too.
Wait till you get to 370. In my opinion those last 5 skill points are the hardest and most painful part of entire skills raising.
Took me 9 Imbued Netherweave Robes to get from 370 to 375. Each robe is 108 cloth, 2 silks and 12 arcane dusts. Now try and count the expense and time needed to farm 1000 netherweave cloth.
Raising alchemy wasnt much better but then I had herbalism and didnt have to buy herbs in AH. Still I think its farming endless Terocones to make useless haste potions (the only yellow recipe I had at that time) that actually got me sick and tired of herbalism.
I am orientated on making Primal Mights now, what means I have to spend at least 2 hours a day farming primals.
I dont hate farming so much but I could think of some better ways of spending my time too.
But, however pita getting to endgame tradeskilling is, if it was easier it wouldnt be worth that much would it? Everyone would have acces to everything with little or no effort and trust me you wouldnt be so proud of whatever BoP epic made by your own hands you are wearing if you saw everyone else having it too.
Don't be too hopeful with Primal Mights, I'm stuck at 373 and I'm doing one every day... all the transmutes are green after 370.
anathor wrote:
Don't be too hopeful with Primal Mights, I'm stuck at 373 and I'm doing one every day... all the transmutes are green after 370.
I am making them for profit not skills, I got my alchemy to 375 quite some time ago.
375 tailoring, 375 alchemy, 375 fishing. Only need 1 more skill point in cooking to fill all bars to the top.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating making these super easy. But, at least as far as leatherworking is right now, I'm discouraged from even trying much more. Farming enough motes to get the primals needed to make one item takes hours. Either that or I spend 100G on the AH. All to make something that I can't really use and it won't really sell on the AH for anything near the cost of time and mats that went into it.
Taking a quick look at the Alchemy recipes, I'd say you have it rather easy in comparison to leatherworking and other crafting professions. I see two pots that need 2x primals. And you have several that don't need any primals. And transmuting is an easy skill point. Take a look at the LW patterns. Look at the patterns 350 and higher. I will need 4, 6, 8, even 10 primals for every thing I make. Most common is 6 or 8 primals. Have you tried farming motes for 6 primal airs? That's for one skill point...in addition to the leather farming needed. You can get 6 skill points from those same 6 primals. I'm not saying make professions so easy anyone can do it with little effort, but as it is now, the effort required is ridiculous.
Edited, Jun 5th 2007 8:49am by azwing
Edited, Jun 5th 2007 8:50am by azwing
Taking a quick look at the Alchemy recipes, I'd say you have it rather easy in comparison to leatherworking and other crafting professions. I see two pots that need 2x primals. And you have several that don't need any primals. And transmuting is an easy skill point. Take a look at the LW patterns. Look at the patterns 350 and higher. I will need 4, 6, 8, even 10 primals for every thing I make. Most common is 6 or 8 primals. Have you tried farming motes for 6 primal airs? That's for one skill point...in addition to the leather farming needed. You can get 6 skill points from those same 6 primals. I'm not saying make professions so easy anyone can do it with little effort, but as it is now, the effort required is ridiculous.
Edited, Jun 5th 2007 8:49am by azwing
Edited, Jun 5th 2007 8:50am by azwing
2 posts
I am having a harder time gathering the Heavy Clefthoof leather than the primals. I only need earth ones now so they are easy enough to find and if I need some they are usually one of the cheaper ones at AH. Clefthoof on the other hand is a pain, especially when u need 40 for 1 pattern. I don't want it to be easy, no point in it then. 373 LW
Quote:
I am having a harder time gathering the Heavy Clefthoof leather than the primals. I only need earth ones now so they are easy enough to find and if I need some they are usually one of the cheaper ones at AH. Clefthoof on the other hand is a pain, especially when u need 40 for 1 pattern. I don't want it to be easy, no point in it then. 373 LW
I don't have much trouble grinding Clefthoof. Just circle the area between Halaa and the Horde town. I can get a stack fairly easily in an about an hour's time, in addition to the Knothide leather and scraps. This is the kind of grinding I think is more appropriate to leatherworking, by the way. Getting things like Clefthoof, or Fel Leather, or Crystal Infused Leather, I can see. I just think the emphasis on primals is out of whack.
As I said, I don't want it to be easy either.
I had a quick look at the recipes, and you are probably exagerating a bit. Of course if you only want to make epics it will cost you a bunch. But the Heavy Clefthoof set is on high demand right now by druid tanks (it's been upgraded with the last patch) and the primals requirements aren't too bad. Also Drums are obviously the way to go. I'm sure it's a pain, but there are already several 375 BS, LW and Engineers in my guild and we are really a small casual guild.
Alchemy isn't too hard, true, but remember that a transmute takes one of each primal, it's not like it's inexpensive either. But I agree we get recipes that don't require primals. On the other hand we get only one epic out of it.
Alchemy isn't too hard, true, but remember that a transmute takes one of each primal, it's not like it's inexpensive either. But I agree we get recipes that don't require primals. On the other hand we get only one epic out of it.
I agree with the OP. I wanted the Felstalker set for my hunter (LW 360 for the last piece) and I had to grind primals for hours a day just to get up one point. It drives me nuts that the raw materials sell for SO much more than the actual pieces in most cases.
I'm not exaggerating at all. Look at the list 350-365. I'm not even talking about epics. Most of them are blues. Aside from the drums, everything else requires 4-10 primals, with most needing 6 or 8 primals.
Rare items only:
For 350 there are 18 patterns. Avg number of primals needed is 6.67
For 355 there are 2 patterns. Each reguires 4 primals.
For 360 and 365 there are 6 patterns. Avg number of primals is 5.7, plus two need 1 primal nether each.
So, I guess I'll just level up on the drums which aren't in demand and I'll end up getting next to nothing for. I guess it's kind of like enchanting your own bracer 20 times. It's a waste, but that's how Blizz has designed it. Either that or I farm motes forever.
Rare items only:
For 350 there are 18 patterns. Avg number of primals needed is 6.67
For 355 there are 2 patterns. Each reguires 4 primals.
For 360 and 365 there are 6 patterns. Avg number of primals is 5.7, plus two need 1 primal nether each.
So, I guess I'll just level up on the drums which aren't in demand and I'll end up getting next to nothing for. I guess it's kind of like enchanting your own bracer 20 times. It's a waste, but that's how Blizz has designed it. Either that or I farm motes forever.
Compare mats for Clefthide Leg Armor and for Primal Might
and check the prices for both in your AH.
What you make with LW and isnt BoP, and that is all but some endgame stuff, you can disenchant and sell mats. It took me 20 haste potions to level 5 skills in alchemy and I sold exactly 0 of them.
All we alchemyst have for endgame is 1 epic trinket. And we have to grind lot of rep to get the recipe for it. I wont even try counting number of purple stuff one can make with LW.
How about tailoring? I was grateful I could get large prismatic shard out of each robe I had to make to get from 370-375 because otherwise they would be vendored.
And now at 375 I can only try get my gold back with bags - me and all other tailors on my server.
Please do not judge professions you didnt try yourself only by recipes you can see listed on this site. Trust me, we can all whine about something, its just matter of having little more patience and obstinacy.
and check the prices for both in your AH.
What you make with LW and isnt BoP, and that is all but some endgame stuff, you can disenchant and sell mats. It took me 20 haste potions to level 5 skills in alchemy and I sold exactly 0 of them.
All we alchemyst have for endgame is 1 epic trinket. And we have to grind lot of rep to get the recipe for it. I wont even try counting number of purple stuff one can make with LW.
How about tailoring? I was grateful I could get large prismatic shard out of each robe I had to make to get from 370-375 because otherwise they would be vendored.
And now at 375 I can only try get my gold back with bags - me and all other tailors on my server.
Please do not judge professions you didnt try yourself only by recipes you can see listed on this site. Trust me, we can all whine about something, its just matter of having little more patience and obstinacy.
5 posts
look at engineering 350+... your attitude will change, i agree the mats are hard, but engineering nearly impossible
i will quit QQing now... good luck with your LW
i will quit QQing now... good luck with your LW
@Sethy
Part of my original question was wondering if all the crafting professions were as much a pain at 350+. I wasn't singling out Alchemy as easy. More, I was just responding to the other poster who suggested I was exaggerating about the primals needed for LW.
My point is, I guess, that for the most part, it seems very difficult to get all the crafting professions up to 375. More difficult, by quite a lot, than the old max (300) used to be.
Part of my original question was wondering if all the crafting professions were as much a pain at 350+. I wasn't singling out Alchemy as easy. More, I was just responding to the other poster who suggested I was exaggerating about the primals needed for LW.
My point is, I guess, that for the most part, it seems very difficult to get all the crafting professions up to 375. More difficult, by quite a lot, than the old max (300) used to be.
I'm at 355 Smithing and when I get the mats saved up to make something I find that selling the mats will make more more money than selling the item I make form the skill gain. I've pretty much given up on power leveling the skill and will just get a point here or there when I can.
I put up 10+ Primal Air, 5+ Primal Fire and the stacks of Adamantite on the AH and made just over 600g the other night. (600g > 2 BS pts.)
I put up 10+ Primal Air, 5+ Primal Fire and the stacks of Adamantite on the AH and made just over 600g the other night. (600g > 2 BS pts.)
34 posts
I've actually found that JC is kind of the opposite... getting from 250ish to 300 was horrible, but the trip from 300 to 375 happened allmost by accident just from cutting gems for guild members and random folks off the trade channel.
The nasty part about high levle JC is actually the recipies... they're all rare drops, and the current going rate for one is somewhere between 500 and 2500 gold on my server depending on the recipe. Once you have a recipe, the rest just kind of happens. The best part is that if you stick mostly to cutting gems, the crafted item is actually worth more than the mats for once :)
Edited, Jun 9th 2007 12:24pm by Kainthe
The nasty part about high levle JC is actually the recipies... they're all rare drops, and the current going rate for one is somewhere between 500 and 2500 gold on my server depending on the recipe. Once you have a recipe, the rest just kind of happens. The best part is that if you stick mostly to cutting gems, the crafted item is actually worth more than the mats for once :)
Edited, Jun 9th 2007 12:24pm by Kainthe
25 posts
I don't understand the problem with the tailoring...most of the things you make are epic as well, and they're actually much easier to make as EVERYONE can get cloth, but only skinners can get skins. The amount of casters wearing tailoring sets (and complaining about the nerfs to them) shows just how powerful your sets are and how much work it takes...less than what people trying to get the Ebon Netherstalker Set (Dragonscale Hunting...), or the Primalstrike Set (14 Primal Mights...)
The fact is, LWing has very, VERY few recipes that require less than 50g to create, while they end up vendoring for less than 1/5th of what we paid to make it.
I just hit 340 myself and I'm realizing that I now have to stop my LW powerlevel to grind rep and Primals, Primals that I NEED for ANOTHER set (I want Primalstrike). So despite me needing 70 Primals for a set (not including Nethers), I have to farm another, what? 100? To get 35 levels?
So tailorers are really the lucky ones...you get to disenchant what you make. You can have a spare profession...we don't. Not at all.
The fact is, LWing has very, VERY few recipes that require less than 50g to create, while they end up vendoring for less than 1/5th of what we paid to make it.
I just hit 340 myself and I'm realizing that I now have to stop my LW powerlevel to grind rep and Primals, Primals that I NEED for ANOTHER set (I want Primalstrike). So despite me needing 70 Primals for a set (not including Nethers), I have to farm another, what? 100? To get 35 levels?
So tailorers are really the lucky ones...you get to disenchant what you make. You can have a spare profession...we don't. Not at all.
azwing wrote:
Semi-rant.
I am finding 350+ leatherworking to be a total pain. I'm kind of curious if all the crafting professions are in the same fix.
In my opinion, high end crafting (at least leatherworking) needs revised. It sure seems like a lot of effort to expend to get to 350+ only to have the profession be mostly irrelevant/useles. Just curious if others are experiencing the same frustration.
Edited, Jun 4th 2007 2:45pm by azwing
I am finding 350+ leatherworking to be a total pain. I'm kind of curious if all the crafting professions are in the same fix.
In my opinion, high end crafting (at least leatherworking) needs revised. It sure seems like a lot of effort to expend to get to 350+ only to have the profession be mostly irrelevant/useles. Just curious if others are experiencing the same frustration.
Edited, Jun 4th 2007 2:45pm by azwing
Speaking as a blacksmith, yes. It's a total slog, although I'm finding 325-360 to actually be a lot easier than getting to 300 was, mostly because thorium was horrible to farm.
Now, if I have to rely on khorium to get 360+, it will probably be just as bad. I pick up every mining node in Outlands I see while I quest, and I only have a few bars of khorium so far.
I can't speak to the usefulness once you get to 375, but at least I'm enjoying smithing more now than I was pre-TBC.
ShinkuSeishin wrote:
I don't understand the problem with the tailoring...most of the things you make are epic as well, and they're actually much easier to make as EVERYONE can get cloth, but only skinners can get skins. The amount of casters wearing tailoring sets (and complaining about the nerfs to them) shows just how powerful your sets are and how much work it takes...less than what people trying to get the Ebon Netherstalker Set (Dragonscale Hunting...), or the Primalstrike Set (14 Primal Mights...)
The fact is, LWing has very, VERY few recipes that require less than 50g to create, while they end up vendoring for less than 1/5th of what we paid to make it.
I just hit 340 myself and I'm realizing that I now have to stop my LW powerlevel to grind rep and Primals, Primals that I NEED for ANOTHER set (I want Primalstrike). So despite me needing 70 Primals for a set (not including Nethers), I have to farm another, what? 100? To get 35 levels?
So tailorers are really the lucky ones...you get to disenchant what you make. You can have a spare profession...we don't. Not at all.
The fact is, LWing has very, VERY few recipes that require less than 50g to create, while they end up vendoring for less than 1/5th of what we paid to make it.
I just hit 340 myself and I'm realizing that I now have to stop my LW powerlevel to grind rep and Primals, Primals that I NEED for ANOTHER set (I want Primalstrike). So despite me needing 70 Primals for a set (not including Nethers), I have to farm another, what? 100? To get 35 levels?
So tailorers are really the lucky ones...you get to disenchant what you make. You can have a spare profession...we don't. Not at all.
How about you actually level tailoring to 375 and make all the epic sets before you start commenting on it?
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