Why do people do this?Follow

IMHO I think most professions have their ups and downs when it comes to making money. For example the median Zam price for a Titansteel Destroyer is listed as 2949g, but they generally sell for 2500'ish.

It is difficult to find items which are relatively easy to farm the materials for, yet produce a healthy profit. I thought I had managed to find one in Savage Saronite Spaulders. With their easy to farm 12 saronite bars and an eternal water, they were selling for 150g's on the AH.

I'm not flooding the market, making about 1 a day and they are selling. I come to list another pair last night and low and behold there's two sets on the AH, from the same person, selling for 75g. I understand that people will want to undercut the market so that their item sells first, but dropping the price by 50% just seems ridiculous.

I'd always admired the AH system for creating its own internal economic system, but out of whack selling like this makes it so much more difficult to make money.

I have bought both of them and re-listed at 150g. I can't check whether they have sold due to maintenance, but hopefully!

As they say, rant over.

Some people definately seem to need a lesson in economics 101, but sadly, it happens.

I was making some nice gold off of the Dragon's Eyes with my JC alt (not a serious toon so no rush to have EVERY recipe) selling for around 450, then one day I see a bunch of undercuts, undercuts to 300 and then going down from there - idiots couldn't even be bothered starting the undercut at, say 425 or 400 - nope - straight to 300. >_<

When inscription first came out, i had enough herbs stored up to get to 365 inscription. Some people on different servers made excess of 20k gold, and I made 4k in the first four hours. After that, some other people caught up, and flooded the AH with glyphs, undercutting my by thousands of percent (selling glyphs for 50 silver when I had gotten 50g for them. I bought it all up. I spent a total of four thousand gold trying to keep the market stable, but people kept flooding and I had to give up.

Since then I've paid attention, and there are about five people who seem to be primarily responsible. There will be an item that is not present on the AH for five to ten days, but when I put one up for auction, within an hour, one of these people will put up the same item undercutting by at least 50%. It makes it good for buyers, and almost impossible to make a profit in certain professions.

basically the point of the story is that I don't know why people do this, and it pisses me off too, but there seems to be very little to be done about it unless you're more committed to gold making and saving your server's economy. even then, it would take a LOT of gold to prop it up on your own.

cc

One word: Diversify.

This happens in real life economics all the time. If you're selling one thing and you competition undercuts you, you go out of business, and then they raise prices. However, if you're selling many things (preferably in different markets), then it becomes much harder if not impossible for your competition to do that to you.

My main is an Alchemist. Up until this week I had a near lock on some of the high end elixers. Now the market is flooded. But, the market on dusts and essences is way up since two weeks ago. I log on to my Enchanter and make a killing.

Money is easy to make, but you have to flow with the market.

It's not neccessarily only this. Prices (300g for Titansteel, 450 for Eyes) were only like that due to the relatively "newness" of it all. Supply and Demand. If there's only 4 JCers high enough level/skill to obtain Eyes (On a 1 per day basis too), obviously they'll sell for a lot. Same with Titansteel.

Now that everyone and their brother has had an opportunity to hit 80, prices are settling down. Sure, they're not going to be as high as the initial rush, but they will be stable. (Fluctuations may happen, of course)

That's why WoW is so good economically. There is more than enough gold sinks to keep inflation in check. They might not seem like they are very big(although some are, like specialty mounts), but they add up quite quickly.

Abilities/spells, repairs, mount training, very costly high end mounts, posting up auctions, flying taxis, mailing costs(ok, a few copper isn't going to break the bank, but its still there).

What's happening to the market right now isn't just a case of deflation, its a case of rising supply for lvl 80 gear/materials as the population of 80s grows. Both supply/demand and inflation/deflation are affecting prices right now. High prices on the AH causes bigger deductions when they sell, meaning less money for the seller. Higher supply means lower prices. Both are affecting people.

As for why people undercut, the easiest way I can describe it is through economics. Firstly, if you are selling crafted items for profit through the AH, it won't hold. If there is a profit possibility and other competitors, competition will always force prices back to regular economic profits. Its just that simple. You will only be able to take advantage of it until someone notices, or someone catches up to your skill level(if you're the first and have a monopoly sort of deal).

Game theory also comes into play, but I won't go on to explaining that.

As to why people set the price much lower than the OP's? Well, the competitor is probably looking for a quicker sale and is relating lower prices to quickness of sale. Lower prices increases demand, that's just the way it is. Also, if he is still making an economic profit from selling it at 75G, its not "out of whack". Sure, its not the same profit as you're making, but as long as its profit, he still wins.

I always love seeing no eternal fires up or one for 50g, then I post mine, and see 40 others pop up after mine for as low as 20g.

One very good reason to undercut people like that is auctioneer. If you know the price is kinda high on something then you list for 25g less a bunch of peoples auctioneer is going to tell them that there is profit to be made so bang they buy your item.

He almost makes a good argument, where it falls down is the fact that no one is loosing real money. It's like "for fun" poker and people going all-in prior to the river on crap hands. If you had a £1000 ante you bloody well wouldn't!

Car dealers in the UK are having a raw time, as I am sure they are around the world, but I doubt whether they'd sell at a loss just to get some money in. You can't force people to be sensible with money, virtually or otherwise, and I think that reflects in the game economy.

A good example of the normal pricing wars is the TTS bars. On Twilight's Hammer you'll generally see the most expensive around 190-200g then dropping a few gold to around 140-150g, but never have I seen one practically given away. I wonder whether this is because the raw mats and cool down timer for TTS make people unwilling to short sell themselves whereas, in comparison, savage saronite pauldrons take an relatively easy to farm 24 saronite ore and 1 eternal water with no cool down.

I can only imagine it was someone boosting blacksmithing with no interest in selling.

Yes, apparently you do need a lesson in economics. It's all about supply and demand. It really has little to do with how many hours you play the game, it's all about how you choose to prioritize your time. I know people that play many many hours that are always broke. Other people play a lot less, but know how to make money in game.

The "whiners" as you call them provide supply. People that buy what the "whiners" supply provide the demand. In the absence of demand, prices fall. It is the buyers that effectively set the price of the goods. If people don't buy things, you can guarantee that the price will drop. If, in the real world, people stopped buying diamond's, you think jewelry stores would continue to offer them at the same prices? Hell no. Supply and demand. It's not a matter of greed or taking advantage of anyone. People pay what they're willing to pay. If they can't afford it, tough luck. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy off the AH. The "taking advantage" aspect is capitalizing on people's impatience and need-to-have-it-now mentality. It's really quite simple. If you don't want to pay for something...don't. Go farm it yourself, have someone craft it for you, etc. Nothing on the AH in this game is must-have. You can live without it.

It's the way a free market economy works. Are Mercedes dealers "whiners" because they price their cars higher than a Toyota? No. Granted, their production costs may be higher, but people are willing to pay for a Mercedes. So, Mercedes isn't taking advantage of people, they're running a profitable business. Now, if a Mercedes dealer across town from another Mercedes dealer started selling Mercedes for two-thirds the price of the other, there's a problem. He'll make money in the short run, but in the long run lose money because he's selling below market value. That's what you're advocating for the AH.

You undercut because you don't understand economics. You're impatient to make money. By drastically undercutting, you're just costing yourself money. Most people aren't "greedy". They understand their markets and price things accordingly. By drastically undercutting, you're signaling you don't know the market and don't understand economics. Don't be surprised in the least if someone buys up your lowball prices, relists them at a higher price, and makes the money you could have made if you'd listed it at a market price in the first place.

But continue to complain about it all you want. It's your prerogative.

I'll tell you why I do it. Often the people posting prices for goods might as well be smoking herbs with the cost they are asking. Many purchasers are not people with alts or twinks. And many don't have the ability to farm gold yet or have a guild to foot the bill. I treat it somewhat like Henry T. Ford in the concept that you can sell more if you keep in mind who your purchaser is; what I mean is, he knew he could sell more if his workers made more and provided them that purchasing power with a combination of wages and assembly line process but he also knew his product prices had to be affordable by his own workers if they were to be a targeted niche.

It may seem obscure. But I keep in mind how it felt when I was low level and realistically how much I had to spend. It wasn't until I hit the upper thirties and lower forties that I found gold to come in normally through adventuring/questing/grinding. I was limited to spending one to two gold maybe three when I was making a BIG purchase and most times could afford under a gold without problems in addition to my own upkeep for my characters.

So I price with a mind towards my selling pool, which I do not consider the gold farmers and the twinks and the one's who have alts providing a gold flow. I don't care about making huge sums of money. A nice steady flow of smaller amounts of cash suit me fine and I like to move my inventory quickly. I don't want to spend much time at the mailbox and then trotting to the AH to examine prices and repay deposits.

I want to be out questing.

So those are the reasons I do it. Frankly, I think people are asking way too much money for items, especially if I decide I'd rather spend X minutes farming it over the sake of convenience. I'm very aware of the money sinks the game has in play and that does not include spending hundreds of gold on an item that is a blue level twentyish something that I will be discarding anyways as I hit the thirties (another factor I often consider because I recall somewhere that the game diminishes your returns on your stats for melee/ranged etc etc if you do not keep your equipment up).

You asked why people do this; that's why I undercut. The market needs to come down a little I think.

That was a beautiful speech there Bristlepaw, sadly, it has nothing to do with in game economics.

First off, Ford shot for an economy of scale, meaning that it costs less to make more of an item - as I already explained, that is not the case in WoW.

Secondly, you aren't an employee of the people selling stuff on the AH - you're a competitor or a customer.

Finally, you obviously have no clue how Ford reduced the price of his cars.

Ford wasn't this super nice guy who said, well, it costs $500 to make a car so rather then charging $1200, I'm gonna only charge $550.

What Ford did was examine the process and the parts and remove waste - if the car didn't need part X, then he excluded it, thus reducing the price. If the average life of the car was 3 years but he found that a certain part would last for 20 years, then he used cheaper materials and reduced the quality of the part (thus knocking down the price) until it only lasted about 3 years.

We can't do that in game - I can't say "Well, I'm going to not use the gems in this armor recipe so it won't look as nice but it'll still work, oh, and instead of titan steel I'm going to use cobalt - sure, the durability factor of the armor will only be 100 instead of 150, but otherwise it'll still work. So now that I've cut out the gems and am using cheaper metal, I can afford to sell the 2k armor for just 500g!"

Sorry kid, no - it doesn't work like that in game.

You're not the other guy's sock puppet, are you?

As a seller-- Undercutting is an annoyance that can't be avoided. If they undercut me by to much, and its not a power-leveling recipe, I can buy and flip. As to "Why do people do this?" Because they think if they aren't the cheapest price, they won't get a sale. Too many people without any confidence in the market,product,customers and/or no patience (I want it now sindrome).


As a buyer-- Of course I buy the cheapest items first; and when buying in bulk, I work my way up the price list. But never going to the 999% mark up. When some tard thinks he needs to sell a 5g rod for 150g, he needs it sent back to him a few times until that 5g sale looks better than his 10g in ah fees loss.


My complaint with people selling on ah is the bulk listers. These tards need a spanking. Why do they take 100's of a fast selling/indemand/stackable item like dusts, ores, bars, cloths, leathers, etc. and list them in singles? Of course they make me become the tard, because I waste 45 minutes, buying 4 pages worth of the item in single form and have to refresh my mailbox 6 times to get my purchases. No lie, I spent almost 40 minutes the other night buying 250+ infinite dust, because the jackass listed them all as singles. The prices had nothing to do with my purchase, although he did list for 70% of normal, but I bought the 3 stacks of 20 from other people at 110%-120% price first.