Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
Reply To Thread

New DE Roll OptionFollow

#1 Oct 26 2009 at 10:24 AM Rating: Good
*
197 posts
I was checking out the wowhead guide to patch 3.3.0 and I noticed this in the patch notes.

Wowhead wrote:
New! (10/23): Group Disenchanting Option: In addition to rolling "Need" or "Greed" on items, players now have the option to elect for an item to be disenchanted. "Disenchant" works exactly like "Greed" except if a player wins the "Greed" roll, they will receive the disenchanted materials instead. Players who choose "Need" will always win the item and will always beat those that choose "Greed" or "Disenchant."

Yes, yes, oh god, yes.

I think this is a pretty awesome idea. I'm getting so tired of the one person who never reads party chat and that greed rolls against me. I once had a group were I had this happen on three different drops and it was a different person each time!

I wonder how the implementation will work. I would assume that the item never goes into the enchanters possession. I wonder if the enchanter can still get skill ups if they are in the level range where that applies? Does this option only show up when there is a qualified enchanter in the group?

As cool as this sounds there are some possible downsides:
  • If someone changes there mind a second later you no longer have the option of swapping the item.
  • Often shards are given out equally or to those who don't get gear, now it will be more luck based.
  • Where does off-spec land? It shouldn't go against need, should it go above vendor/DE?

  • What do you think?
    #2 Oct 26 2009 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
    **
    422 posts
    If I just use your quote as a guide, and without doing any other research, I can foresee a few issues.

    If this functionality gets implemented as it reads, it diminishes some of the uniqueness of the enchanting profession. Someone who does not have enchanting as a profession could conceivably run lower level instances and now gather enchanting mats, which could potentially drive down prices on the AH. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just makes enchanting less distinctive as a profession. It also makes it harder for enchanters to gather their own Northrend mats, as now all party members will want to roll on them.

    It almost makes enchanting a secondary profession, or perhaps more accurately makes disenchanting a basic skill, such as building a campfire.

    If they are doing this, why not also put in an herbing, mining, and skinning option? There are opportunities to use those skills in dungeons to obtain mats, so why not allow all party members the chance to roll and receive them in a similar fashion to enchanting mats?

    #3 Oct 26 2009 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
    **
    288 posts
    I'm not a huge fan of the idea.
    i didnt find there to be a big problem with the current system
    and i think it will hurt alot of Enchanter's ability to make money and lessens the need for enchanters overall

    i think it opens too many new issues, messes with too much in the economy, and is just not needed.
    my 2 cents
    #4 Oct 27 2009 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
    ***
    1,419 posts
    HunterJones wrote:
    I was checking out the wowhead guide to patch 3.3.0 and I noticed this in the patch notes.

    Wowhead wrote:
    New! (10/23): Group Disenchanting Option: In addition to rolling "Need" or "Greed" on items, players now have the option to elect for an item to be disenchanted. "Disenchant" works exactly like "Greed" except if a player wins the "Greed" roll, they will receive the disenchanted materials instead. Players who choose "Need" will always win the item and will always beat those that choose "Greed" or "Disenchant."

    Yes, yes, oh god, yes.

    I think this is a pretty awesome idea. I'm getting so tired of the one person who never reads party chat and that greed rolls against me. I once had a group were I had this happen on three different drops and it was a different person each time!

    I wonder how the implementation will work. I would assume that the item never goes into the enchanters possession. I wonder if the enchanter can still get skill ups if they are in the level range where that applies? Does this option only show up when there is a qualified enchanter in the group?

    As cool as this sounds there are some possible downsides:
  • If someone changes there mind a second later you no longer have the option of swapping the item.
  • Often shards are given out equally or to those who don't get gear, now it will be more luck based.
  • Where does off-spec land? It shouldn't go against need, should it go above vendor/DE?

  • What do you think?


    I think low level mats will become cheaper now because of this, and people will run more low level dungeons. It will seriously increase the amount of the rarer dusts, such as infinite dust.

    I also think that the prices of top level shards will drop pretty fast because of this.

    I think that the current situation where you are allowed to trade the item for X time after getting it in a group in case of mistakes was good enough to remedy the problem of miscommunication and/or mistakes made by the group.

    I also think that Blizz programmers will have a harder time putting an "oops" function in place for items that become DE'd which people wished to keep the item instead, creating more petitions.

    I think that people will be less willing to let others build up their off-sets, since the item isn't just worth a few gold anymore, it is worth a new enchant for whoever gets the materials.

    I think there will be discussions on offsets vs enchants started on the general forums in a very short time.

    I think its uneeded, takes away the "specialness" of the enchanting profession, and will cause more problems than it helps.
    #5 Oct 27 2009 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
    ***
    1,634 posts
    Quote:
    Someone who does not have enchanting as a profession could conceivably run lower level instances and now gather enchanting mats, which could potentially drive down prices on the AH.


    I believe you need an Enchanter in the group to DE it. The option would not appear for a solo or group that did not have the Enchanter Job.


    Quote:
    I think low level mats will become cheaper now because of this, and people will run more low level dungeons.


    Same response. I think you need an enchanter in the group to do it. So it's not like a BS/Miner can suddenly go run SM and DE all the mats that drop. I think I read somewhere that you must have an enchanter in the party/raid. Which really makes sense - otherwise DE would be more of a passive trait for all toons - rather than an active ability of Enchanters.



    Who knows, we'll see.

    Overall I like it.
    #6 Oct 27 2009 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
    *
    197 posts
    Borsuk wrote:
    I believe you need an Enchanter in the group to DE it. The option would not appear for a solo or group that did not have the Enchanter Job.
    This is how I read it as well. I'm pretty sure this is being added to ease the enchanters job in a party environment, not to replace them.

    The downside is that the enchanter has less ability to control when and how his skill is being used. Maybe I don't want every guy I PUG with to be able to get a shard that I create because he will take it right to the AH to sell. Even if they get kept for use, it's less demand for the ones I'm providing. This does two major things to the economy. First, there is less gold entering the environment through selling to NPC vendors. Secondly, it will increases the supply of enchanting materials while the demand remains the same. This will hurt enchanters ability to make money through selling raw materials but it also reduces their operational costs of actually enchanting gear. Then again, if the market gets flooded with low cost materials, the fixed price coming from the vendor will begin to start looking like the more attractive option. This would make the system swing back and forth until balance is found.

    Overall I still like this change but I think the enchanter should get the option of choosing whether this functionality gets provided to the group and that they can set the level of item that it is available for. For example maybe I'm ok DEing blues and purples but not greens. People should have the right to choose whether or not to provide services to other players. That's a part of the fun of having professions and having an in-game economy.
    #7 Oct 28 2009 at 1:21 AM Rating: Good
    HunterJones wrote:
    Borsuk wrote:
    I believe you need an Enchanter in the group to DE it. The option would not appear for a solo or group that did not have the Enchanter Job.
    This is how I read it as well. I'm pretty sure this is being added to ease the enchanters job in a party environment, not to replace them.

    The downside is that the enchanter has less ability to control when and how his skill is being used. Maybe I don't want every guy I PUG with to be able to get a shard that I create because he will take it right to the AH to sell. Even if they get kept for use, it's less demand for the ones I'm providing. This does two major things to the economy. First, there is less gold entering the environment through selling to NPC vendors. Secondly, it will increases the supply of enchanting materials while the demand remains the same. This will hurt enchanters ability to make money through selling raw materials but it also reduces their operational costs of actually enchanting gear. Then again, if the market gets flooded with low cost materials, the fixed price coming from the vendor will begin to start looking like the more attractive option. This would make the system swing back and forth until balance is found.


    I have an enchanter alt. What a lot of enchanters neglect to recognize is that enchanting is the only profession that comes with a built in gathering profession that makes use of items that everyone gets in the process of questing and/or via random world drops. You have a production profession which, with the addition of Vellum to the game, is just as viable a tool for generating an income via the AH as any other profession. In essence, you get two professions in one. As well, you have one of only three professions that are directly used on a significant and ongoing basis by virtually every end-game character in WoW (the other two being JC and Alchemy).

    If anything, this lightens the load on enchanters who can no longer say that they don't want to deal with the D/E bit in dungeon runs because it's a pain in the *** after the run to do the rolls and hand out the shards. Now it's a one-shot deal, done. Yay. That's the only reason I ever kept quiet about being an enchanter when I was doing regular dungeon runs on my hunter. Too many people taking too damn long to roll and/or accept trade requests and/or whatever. The run is over. I'm being a good sport. I want to log off/carry on with the rest of my session. Standing around waiting on you does not appeal to me.

    Refusing to D/E because of a concern over what impact it will have on the market is petty.

    Gold entering the economy from vendoring dungeon drops is 100% trivial relative to gold entering the economy from quest rewards (especially dailies and other quests done at the level cap). I'd even go so far as to say that on most days, a full spread of Argent Tourney dailies nets me more gold from vendor trash than what I'd get from vendoring a dungeon blue/epic. It's really not a concern.

    The concern over what happens if someone makes a mistake and watches the item D/E'd such that it can't be traded to them is also a non-issue. This whole trading of BoP gear for <x> amount of time after receiving it has been more of a headache than anything else. I have personally never seen that feature used for its intended purpose. I'm sure it has been...many times. Usually, however, it's abused all to hell for [Epic] achievements and/or cause for an insufferable amount of sniveling when someone rolled low but really wanted it or couldn't be bothered to pay attention and decided after the fact that, "Oh hey, I do want that after all. Give it to me please." For the most part, people got along just fine with BoP gear binding permanently on pickup.

    Quote:
    Overall I still like this change but I think the enchanter should get the option of choosing whether this functionality gets provided to the group and that they can set the level of item that it is available for. For example maybe I'm ok DEing blues and purples but not greens. People should have the right to choose whether or not to provide services to other players. That's a part of the fun of having professions and having an in-game economy.


    If the enchanter was given the option to specify which items they wanted D/E'd and they refused to D/E anything, I'd remove them from the group. That BoE green that you're worried about being D/E'd and crashing your market could very well end up shipped to a D/E alt or stockpiled to be D/E'd by a friend of the person who got it. Maybe it would go to a vendor...my first WoW toon was my hunter so I've never vendored a BoE item in the entire time I've been playing the game so I couldn't tell you how many people vendor BoEs and then buy mats for their enchants later on. I do know that if a feature is implemented that makes D/Eing items effortless for the enchanter and they still refused to do it, I'd have no use for them.

    Edited, Oct 28th 2009 12:22am by AureliusSir
    #8 Oct 28 2009 at 6:28 AM Rating: Excellent
    *
    208 posts
    My main is an enchanter and I'm happy with this addition. While I do offer my DE services in guild raids, I rarely do so in heroics, especially pugs. Which is not to say if someone asks I'd have a problem doing it for the group - I just don't offer. To me it feels cumbersome and often enough I, or someone who won a shard, hearth by accident. This system allows me to stop being a jerk (which I'm sure some people would consider me) while continueing to be lazy.

    I would like to comment that, in my opinion, this will have more of an effect on dust and essence than it will on shards and crystals. My idea being blue and purple items already get de'd fairly often in parties while I have not seen green items treated in such a way.

    Edited, Oct 28th 2009 8:29am by PageCCCXI
    #9 Oct 28 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
    41 posts
    I'm not that fussed about it to be honest. I tend to do guild runs, so mats usually go to the GB anyway. The odd occassions I do pug a heroic, if i'm the only DE'er, I dont mind DE'ing at the end and letting everyone roll on the shards/crystals. I tend to pass on most stuff nowadays, not much use to me anymore. I still have loads of shards/crystals leftover from levelling and farming heroics at the start of Wotlk, and dusts and essences are a non-issue as well.

    To be honest, most people now only do heroics to farm emblems and the gear is only fit for DE. For the levellers and alts trying to get gear, why not just put a NPC in Dalaran who will DE the item for you. All stuff is rolled for as per usual, need/greed, then people can choose what they want to do with items, vendor or DE it. Then it wouldnt matter if there was an enchanter in the group or not.
    #10 Nov 02 2009 at 12:32 AM Rating: Decent
    Quote:
    It also makes it harder for enchanters to gather their own Northrend mats, as now all party members will want to roll on them.


    How? You've still got your normal 20% chance to win a shard roll just as before.

    Quote:
    If they are doing this, why not also put in an herbing, mining, and skinning option? There are opportunities to use those skills in dungeons to obtain mats, so why not allow all party members the chance to roll and receive them in a similar fashion to enchanting mats?


    OK, fair enough - and in exchange for that enchanters will have to level disenchanting seperately from their enchanting.

    After all, every other trade skill in the game needs to skill up a seperate gathering skill in order to do their thing - why should enchanters be able to have their gathering and production skill rolled into one?

    Of course, that'll mean that you'll either have to lose your second gathering or trade skill now but I'm sure that'll be a small price to pay for being able to roll on the rare ore/herb node and occassional bit of leather that shows up during an instance.

    You want fairness, then I'll give you more fairness then you actually want.

    Personally, having a 449 chanter myself, I view this change as a good thing as it means that all of my other toons now have an easier time feeding shards to the chanter when there isn't one in the group - that's a good thing.

    Quote:
    lessens the need for enchanters overall


    It lessons the need for an enchanter in a group but it doesn't lesson the need for someone to still cast a chant with the shards.

    Quote:
    I think that people will be less willing to let others build up their off-sets, since the item isn't just worth a few gold anymore, it is worth a new enchant for whoever gets the materials.


    Only time I've ever seen that problem is when the chanter in the party wanted the shard to level with and threw a fit - otherwise its been a non-problem with most enchanters.

    #11 Nov 04 2009 at 3:44 PM Rating: Decent
    I think most of you are missing an essential part of the function so let me try to explain in differently;

    Need is still priority over greed and DE so the Highest need roll wins;

    DE and Greed are equal with no priority over the other, so this is an example scenario, which I have verified on the PTR.

    Player 1 rolls greed, Player 2 rolls DE. Player 1 rolls a 78 and Player 2 rolls a 35, Player 1 gets the item not enchant materials since they selected greed.

    So you only get enchant mats if no one rolled need, you win the greed roll and you selected DE. In all other cases you will get the item.

    As to whether or not if affects the server economy on the cost of materials that enchanters now sell, I am sure there will be some impact but I think it will be minor as enchanters get as much of their mats from solo farming as they do from groups at least for basic materials. Shards will be the largest impact I believe but as noted you still need the enchanter to do the actual enchant.

    Will it affect groups, well I think that people will have to ask to roll need for an off-set item before the timer expires or roll need and then pass it if someone else needed it for a main spec. It is hard to make a system that is completely idiot proof or fair in all situations so we will still have to deal with the greedy and immature people.
    #12 Nov 05 2009 at 1:37 AM Rating: Decent
    I think the main issue you're seeing Kolkey is the same mindset from those enchanters that complain that people 1) won't give them boss drops that people don't need so that the enchanter can shard them to skill up and 2) enchanters who feel that a party should pay them to shard the un-needed boss drops in a pug.

    #13 Nov 07 2009 at 2:26 AM Rating: Good
    I think it's alright. Honestly its a hassle to be a party's DE whipping boy. Sometimes I 'forget' to tell a party I disenchant. For the most part besides crystals they're often making nearly as much vendoring the blues as selling the crystals. It's just a pain.

    Honestly, I didn't level disenchanting so I could DE for parties anyways, I don't feel like enchanting is being made less powerful, it's still very good.
    #14 Nov 07 2009 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
    Ghost in the Machine
    Avatar
    ******
    36,443 posts
    Great idea, but I foresee that it will have some major impact on the enchanting material costs.

    I'm guessing in a couple of months the prices on mats will be so low it'll be fifty/fifty whether you should shard the stuff or just vendor it.
    ____________________________
    Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
    #15 Nov 07 2009 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
    Quote:
    I think it's alright. Honestly its a hassle to be a party's DE whipping boy. Sometimes I 'forget' to tell a party I disenchant. For the most part besides crystals they're often making nearly as much vendoring the blues as selling the crystals. It's just a pain.

    Honestly, I didn't level disenchanting so I could DE for parties anyways, I don't feel like enchanting is being made less powerful, it's still very good.


    I love DEing for my party, be it a guild or pug run (yes, I'll pug with alts, not sure if my main will change his mind to get the pug pug though) because I've found that half the time peeps end up getting upgrades and/or don't care about/appreciate the cost of the shards and let me keep them.
    #16 Nov 10 2009 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
    **
    267 posts
    Quote:
    After all, every other trade skill in the game needs to skill up a seperate gathering skill in order to do their thing - why should enchanters be able to have their gathering and production skill rolled into one?


    Should tailors be penalized because cloth can drop from humanoid mobs? Tailors don't need a gather profession either.

    Scribes have to skillup Milling? JewelCrafter have to skillup Prospecting? Miners have to skillup smelting? Alchemists have to Discover transmutes. Ect... Enchanters get DE, because it is the ONLY way to get materials used for enchanting. Where do we draw the line in the sand? Should we also be able to use the above professions secondary bonuses while in a party with them?
    Enchanters take green/blue/purple items and break them down for mats and loose any vendor/AH value. Enchanters need to farm items to DE or buy them on the AH, just like almost every other crafting profession needs to gather or buy needed items. Go out and try to farm up a bunch of greens/blues/purples and tell me how that FREE gathering profession is working for you.

    What about 2 months from now when the new dungeons are just farmed for dailies/badges and money. Lots of over geared people doing quick runs. Those people are NOW going to want an enchanter for the auto DE option. Are enchanters going to be the new "LF1M" role that causes shortages? People will look for 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 Enchanter, and 2 others. DPS enchanters just got a big advantage to the non-enchanter DPSers for that group spot. It wasn't a issue about peoples performance in 5 mans,until recount became a popular addon. Now it is 1500DPS and your kicked. GearScore addon came along and now people pick mainly overgeared puggers for fast and easy runs. People look at the score and don't even check if the gear is for the right role. What happens when DE is forced only when the party has an enchanter?

    This change opens a whole can of worms. Enchanter don't like it because suddenly their profession is being used without thier say so. Non-enchantter see it as something free that they dont have to pay for.
    #17 Nov 10 2009 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
    **
    970 posts
    Mazra wrote:
    Great idea, but I foresee that it will have some major impact on the enchanting material costs.

    I'm guessing in a couple of months the prices on mats will be so low it'll be fifty/fifty whether you should shard the stuff or just vendor it.

    I'd say 10% max. I'd venture that the vast majority of guild runs and non-fail pugs already shard gracefully or already vendor, and won't change SOP. Combine that with the supply of enchanters lessening when the greedy/selfish ones - who were "hoping" that the party would "forget" to roll on the shards - all reroll JC or something. Minimal impact...

    ... especially compared with the current situation, where the MMO-Champion article finally got disseminated to the backwater servers like mine. At the exact same time as the hotfix went live so that DE of "3.5" infinite dust became "between 5 and 7" and DE of "1.5" infinite dust became "2 or 3". In the last two weeks the market-clearing price for infinite dust on my server has gone from 4.2g to 1.7g.

    While DE in 3.3 and beyond will be a minimal profit-maker like alchemy unlike the cash cow it was before, random PUG loot rules won't have much to do with that.
    #19 Nov 13 2009 at 9:34 PM Rating: Good
    Nekar wrote:
    Quote:
    After all, every other trade skill in the game needs to skill up a seperate gathering skill in order to do their thing - why should enchanters be able to have their gathering and production skill rolled into one?


    Should tailors be penalized because cloth can drop from humanoid mobs? Tailors don't need a gather profession either.

    Scribes have to skillup Milling? JewelCrafter have to skillup Prospecting? Miners have to skillup smelting? Alchemists have to Discover transmutes. Ect...


    All of those things you mentioned require another gathering profession to gather the materials that you use those "secondary" trade abilities on. You don't need a specialized tradeskill to gather greens from world drops and quest rewards.

    Quote:
    Enchanters take green/blue/purple items and break them down for mats and loose any vendor/AH value


    Enchanters lose the vendor value on the item they disenchant, yes. They typically gain a significant markup on the enchanting mats, however, and those mats have no list fee to put on auction. Please don't forget that leveling enchanting is not an infinite process. Eventually, your enchanting will be capped and you'll no longer need materials to skill up with, at which point the materials you produce are pure profit.

    Quote:
    Enchanters need to farm items to DE or buy them on the AH, just like almost every other crafting profession needs to gather or buy needed items. Go out and try to farm up a bunch of greens/blues/purples and tell me how that FREE gathering profession is working for you.


    Show me a screenshot listing rock-bottom prices on Cobalt Ore of the Whale or Frost Lotus of Spirit and you might have something to work with there.

    Quote:
    What about 2 months from now when the new dungeons are just farmed for dailies/badges and money. Lots of over geared people doing quick runs. Those people are NOW going to want an enchanter for the auto DE option. Are enchanters going to be the new "LF1M" role that causes shortages? People will look for 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 Enchanter, and 2 others. DPS enchanters just got a big advantage to the non-enchanter DPSers for that group spot. It wasn't a issue about peoples performance in 5 mans,until recount became a popular addon. Now it is 1500DPS and your kicked. GearScore addon came along and now people pick mainly overgeared puggers for fast and easy runs. People look at the score and don't even check if the gear is for the right role. What happens when DE is forced only when the party has an enchanter?


    You're reaching. The D/E option isn't going to drive people to demand an enchanter in the group any more than they demand one now. All it is going to do is make an enchanter's life easier in groups. End of story.
    #20 Nov 14 2009 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
    *
    104 posts
    AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:


    I have an enchanter alt. What a lot of enchanters neglect to recognize is that enchanting is the only profession that comes with a built in gathering profession that makes use of items that everyone gets in the process of questing and/or via random world drops. You have a production profession which, with the addition of Vellum to the game, is just as viable a tool for generating an income via the AH as any other profession. In essence, you get two professions in one. As well, you have one of only three professions that are directly used on a significant and ongoing basis by virtually every end-game character in WoW (the other two being JC and Alchemy).



    Usually I stay quiet, people are entitled to their opinions and can play how they wish. However all other professions have a way to farm the mats they need to level up or to make a piece at will... need leather? go skin it. Need ore ? go mine it. Enchanters don't have this option. They can go quest and get a green here and there as quest reward or farm mobs for greens... but when enchants take 40 infinite dust or dream shards, that isn't all that reliable of an option. So are enchanters more entitled to the drops in dungeons? I don't believe so, however enchanters are entitled to decide if they want to D/E for the group or not.

    Now saying that, I used to offer to DE for everyone if everyone passed on items they don't need and pass out the shards/crystals at the end in a fair way (usually use the /roll and the top roll getting crystal next rolls getting shards depending on how many were farmed.) but after joining run after run where people would greed roll against me, I stopped doing this and just sharded my own.

    Once 3.3 hits... I don't believe I'll allow my profession to be used unless there is a fair way to do so, if a group wants to kick me, good luck at that. As a tank/healer most groups won't kick me :) and since my wife usualy goes on heroics/raids with me, i won't get kicked (unless I'm in the doghouse that day)
    The only reason this is, it annoys me when people will win 2-3 blues and maybe even the purple and not share the loot evenly... I've gone too many dungeons where I don't win anything and others win 2 or 3 drops to vendor. And now that items can be traded, no one wants to pass so I can DE and roll at end. Most think that they should roll greed and whatever items they get, they give to me and I should D/E them for them and give them all the shards crystals... Wrong, if they can't share loot I'm not sharing my profession. Now I know that shards won't be tradable in dungeons when going cross realm, but the chances that the group would do it fairly and use /roll or something to give loot evenly is slim to none, and too much of a headache, so I'll just be a jerk.
    #21 Nov 15 2009 at 12:19 PM Rating: Default
    Muggle@#%^er
    ******
    20,024 posts
    People also need to recognize that, if they don't want a group to make use of their DE ability, they can roll greed on everything. DE has the lowest priority (well, just above pass), so Need and Greed options override it.

    Thus, the enchanter still has complete control. You just don't have additional work if you do want to DE everything.
    ____________________________
    IDrownFish wrote:
    Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

    lolgaxe wrote:
    Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
    #22 Nov 15 2009 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
    **
    277 posts
    At the moment I just need everything in heroics (not greens though), tell the party i'm needing for DE, and collect the item. I wait to roll last to see if anyone actually needs the item, and even if there is a mistake you can pass the item across anyway. At the end of the run there is usually 4-5 Shards including a Crystal (who needs heroic gear nowadays?), highest roll gets the crystal, the rest get the shards. Sometimes people hearth out without collecting their shard from me, bonus for me as I just keep it (occasionally I will post it to them if I'm feeling kind).

    Sometimes however it all just seems a chore and people seem ungrateful, in which case I just greed everything and DE my own loot at the end. Intresting thing is, if I DE for the group I nearly always come out with more than if I act 'selfishly' and greed everything, often you can get nothing from the run.

    The new system looks good but the one problem I see is that each shard is DE'd and rolled as it is won. This way it is possible for someone to win multiple times. The way I currently do it (shards shared out equally at end) means that everyone gets a shard or crystal at the end of the run rather than perhaps one person getting the majority.
    #23 Nov 15 2009 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
    Muggle@#%^er
    ******
    20,024 posts
    Quote:
    The new system looks good but the one problem I see is that each shard is DE'd and rolled as it is won. This way it is possible for someone to win multiple times. The way I currently do it (shards shared out equally at end) means that everyone gets a shard or crystal at the end of the run rather than perhaps one person getting the majority.


    You can still do that if you want. It's just going to be more work for you. But most groups will be fine with it, due to the guarantee of loot.
    ____________________________
    IDrownFish wrote:
    Anyways, you all are horrible, @#%^ed up people

    lolgaxe wrote:
    Never underestimate the healing power of a massive dong.
    #24 Nov 15 2009 at 11:02 PM Rating: Good
    Vilaca wrote:
    Usually I stay quiet, people are entitled to their opinions and can play how they wish. However all other professions have a way to farm the mats they need to level up or to make a piece at will... need leather? go skin it. Need ore ? go mine it. Enchanters don't have this option. They can go quest and get a green here and there as quest reward or farm mobs for greens... but when enchants take 40 infinite dust or dream shards, that isn't all that reliable of an option. So are enchanters more entitled to the drops in dungeons? I don't believe so, however enchanters are entitled to decide if they want to D/E for the group or not.


    If I'm a leatherworker and I want to be able to farm leather, I have to take skinning. If I'm a JC/BS and I want to be able to gather ore, I have to take mining. If I'm an alchemist/scribe and I want to farm base materials for my profession, I have to take herbalism. Both primary profession slots consumed for the privilege of being able to gather my own materials.

    If enchanters want to be able to farm their own mats, they take tailoring. They farm cloth, convert the cloth to greens, and D/E the greens. Any other production profession would work, but tailoring is the one that requires no special gathering skill to gather the raw materials. Enchanters can also make a very substantial amount of gold browsing the AH for cheap greens to bid on, D/E them, and flip the resulting mats for a multiplicative profit. Few other professions can do that.

    As much as enchanters have bemoaned their inability to make a profit or skill up their profession in a way that doesn't cost them a fortune, it's not more than a fluff argument. Enchanters are no less greedy than other people when it comes to a chance to make a few quick gold, and that more than any other issue is at the heart of this "concern" over the D/E option in groups.

    No other gear augment costs me as much as top enchants on my shaman or my paladin, especially for weapons. That accounts for epic gems, epic leg kits, top tier rep augments, and any other augment you can think of. Enchanters are the ones who stand most able to cash in on that reality, and Blizzard knows it. They also know that the odds of enchanters going into a cross-realm dungeon and agreeing to "Greed" items to D/E only to bugger off with them at the end of the run are unreasonably high. The D/E option is a convenience to enchanters and a measure of protection for everyone else. Nothing more, nothing less.
    #25 Nov 17 2009 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
    Quote:
    Should tailors be penalized because cloth can drop from humanoid mobs? Tailors don't need a gather profession either.


    And what gathering profession do you use to get stuff to DE? ;-)

    Quote:
    Scribes have to skillup Milling?


    They still need herbalism to gather the herbs to mill.

    Quote:
    JewelCrafter have to skillup Prospecting?


    They still need to mine the ore they prospect.

    Quote:
    Miners have to skillup smelting?


    Smelting is part of the mining process, otherwise you'd need THREE skills to do BS/JC/Eng.

    Quote:
    Alchemists have to Discover transmutes.


    That's not a bonus in my book - I'd much rather buy all my xmutes off the vendor of give him some rare herbs like you chanters do instead of depending on the RNG.

    Quote:
    Ect... Enchanters get DE, because it is the ONLY way to get materials used for enchanting.


    Mining is the ONLY way to get mats for BS/JC/Eng.

    Herbalism is the ONLY way to get mats for Alch/Inscrip.

    Skinning is the ONLY way to gets mats for LW.

    I'm sure you had a point somewhere but I'm not seeing it.

    Quote:
    Where do we draw the line in the sand?


    Well, me make disenchanting a separate skill like mining, skinning and herbalism are and then you'll be fine.

    Quote:
    Enchanters take green/blue/purple items and break them down for mats and loose any vendor/AH value.


    Skinners, miners and herbalists all lose the value of their items when they use them to skill up too in case you forgot.

    Quote:
    Enchanters need to farm items to DE or buy them on the AH, just like almost every other crafting profession needs to gather or buy needed items.


    Right, so how does this mean that you shouldn't have to have disenchanting as a separate skill like skinning/mining/herbalism is?

    Quote:
    Go out and try to farm up a bunch of greens/blues/purples and tell me how that FREE gathering profession is working for you.


    Go out and farm enough titanium or arctic fur or blue gems or specialty cloth and then we'll talk.

    Remember friend, I'm 450 in every gathering skill and every profession but BS and inscription (inscription is in progress) so I've got a pretty good sense of what everyone's looking at.
    #26 Nov 17 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
    **
    422 posts
    rusttle wrote:
    That's not a bonus in my book - I'd much rather buy all my xmutes off the vendor of give him some rare herbs like you chanters do instead of depending on the RNG.


    Enchanters have to depend on RNG for some recipes too. Unless you know how I can go buy Enchant Weapon - Blade Ward, Enchant Weapon - Blood Draining, Enchant Weapon - Mongoose, etc. etc.
    « Previous 1 2
    Reply To Thread

    Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

     

    Recent Visitors: 80 All times are in CST
    Anonymous Guests (80)