First, just let me say that I completely agree with the notion that hacks/bots/cheats and other performance enhancing drugs should be a bannable offense and SE is right on track. No two ways about it.

My problem here is that this is a minimally altered PS2 program running in a Windows environment. I say that if you're going to run on a platform, embrace it, don't just do what you have to to get by. The developers at SE clearly made this with PS2 in mind, and chose not to add in even the basic functionality to make it Windows Certified (the ability to run in a window being one feature on the list). I mean, if FF loses focus, it boots you instead of just ignoring input (or something similar) and that's just silly. Now, the only viable argument (in my opinion) against a windower that I've heard is that it allows for debugging of other tools in realtime, which sucks for the rest of us who merely want convenience, but that's life.

I played WoW for a while (in my opinion a technically superior game) and came back during the Return to Vanadiel campaign, and I honestly think this game has more to offer, but things like this just get under my skin. I see it as a needless inconvenience for their customers.

Just out of curiosity, can anyone think of another popular, somewhat recent game that didn't let you ALT+TAB or run in a window? I can't.

Thanks for bearing with this absurdly long post.

"As long as you live under my roof, you will obey my rules." I'm pretty sure that everyone in here has heard that on more than a few occasions in their lives. Well, that's exactly what SquareEnix is saying right now.

Please, let me elaborate. In real life, arson is a crime. If a person sets a building on fire, the law doesn't care if that building was a schoolhouse or a crackhouse. The only thing the law cares about is the fact that a building got torched.

The same example exists in FFXI right now. The Terms of Conduct Agreement, or whatever it's called, that each player, even in passing, agrred to obey upon playing this game expressly states that using a third party program to interfere with Final Fantasy XI is forbidden, and may be punished by the banning of an account. SquareEnix doesn't care whether the third party program is malicious or not. Nor should they.

And, for the people spouting off about "our rights," you need to remember something. Inside that game, we are not bound by the laws of whatever country we happen to live in. I am not bound by the laws of the United States, for instance. I am bound by the laws of Vana diel. And, because of that, a person doesn't have the same rights in that environment that they would have in real life. The simple fact of the matter is that players of this game sign away a substantial portion of their rights in order for SquareEnix and Sony to allow them to enjoy their intellectual property.

SquareEnix, or Sony, for that matter, has the ability, and the right, to remove any user it chooses, as long as both of the following two conditions are met.

1: The user violates the Terms of Conduct Agreement that was entered into upon beginning to play the game.

and

2: SquareEnix or Sony can prove it. (Notice that I didn't say "Prove it to other people." They only need to prove it to themselves. It is their game and server, after all.)

Now, to clarify, let's use an example. Take a player, Let's call him "Omi." Why Omi? Because I like Xiaolin Showdown. Now, Omi is playing in the Dunes as a level 14 Samurai. His party gets wiped out by a link, and he barely makes it to Selbina. He comes back under a minute and a half later, but this time, he's back as a level 65 Red Mage. He uses Chainspell to Raise his party inside of 20 seconds, and goes back to Selbina. when Omi comes back another minute later, he's back to being a level 14 Samurai.

In that example, it should be fairly obvious that the player using Omi is doing something against the rules. And, since he's not obeying the rules of the house, he's probably going to get kicked out of it, regardless of the reason he broke the rules. Because, no-one in a position of authority really cares why a person breaks the rules.

Now, I used the absolute most positive light possible to describe this. Now, do any of use know anyone who would actually use these hacks like this? I don't. The people who have these hacks remind me of the PK's in Diablo II who lways used MapHack to find their victims in under 3 seconds.

And, as far as Windower goes, I really don't care whether or not you are douing anything naughty with it. If you use it, then you are intentionally breaking the rules of the Final Fantasy XI "house," and SquareEnix, or Sony, has the right to kick you our of that house. Period.

i just wanted to say this.. they find and ban all those ppl in a short time and yet right in the rules AltimitEin found
why havnt they done this with all the gil sellers they have been around far longer then this "changing jobs cheat" and they do alot more harm then chagning your job anywhere ie MPKing raising prices and everything else whickh im not getting into.. in closing.. SE good job getting some things done /clap but get the other people of that are ruining are game alot more.

it appears to me that most of the problem stems from 2 things.

1. immature little ******** who, when not appeased by whatever goes wrong in life, whine and complain on a website not watched by SE, thinking that maybe they will get somewhere by flaming and spamming their immaturities.

-or-

2. people who dont take the time to read all of the "legal mumbo jumbo" before clicking the little box that says "i agree".

i wonder if this is a problem in japan, europe, or anywhere else for that matter too.

but its probably just us whiny americans, used to everything going our way.

^.^

Edited, Sun Sep 11 20:36:21 2005

Having just started to play this game. I'm happy to say that I just wish that Blizzard would take actions like this. Great job SE. Keep it up.


Lord Jokkeflex

I'm sypathetic to people who only use the Windower for convenience. I admit that there are times in-game that I wish I could switch to another program for a moment without exitting FFXI. Unfortunatly, the fact that using it can get your account banned must be considered. If you're willing to take that risk, go right ahead. Just don't complain if you have to face the consequences.

SE can't afford to let the Windower slide. While most people don't use it to cheat, the fact is that it has the potential to be used for cheating, as seen in the new TP viewing feature of whichever Windower that is. Regardless of how useful that is, it's still information that normal pleyers don't have access to, and is an obscure form of cheating. Beyond that, SE doesn't know every little thing about the program - and neither do most of you. For all they know, it could be causing server problems. That's why all 3rd-party software is against the ToS. Even in itself, Windowing functionality is clearly something that SE didn't want available. Regardless of their reasoning behind it, they didn't want people playing FFXI in a window, so even the basic Windower functionality is changing the game in a way that it was not intended to be played.

There's nothing to be done about it. You could either work hard and petition SE to implement their own Windowing function in a future update, or go use the 3rd party Windower at the risk of being banned (or just put up with not having it). Just remember, playing the game is your choice, as is how you choose to play the game. If you decide that having the Windower is worth the risk of being banned, go for it. You get banned, too bad; that'll be your fault too.

You all have to realize that you are playing SE's game... If they want to fix something, they'll fix it, they want to ban you, they'll ban you, it's their game and they make the rules. If you don't like it, quit. You agreeded to their Terms of Use, so you have to follow that or they will do what they want with you. Don't complain because you broke their rules, your the one at fault and like I said... don't like them, then quit.

Dug around a bit and C&Ped this, For those wondering.



3.1 Prohibited Activities.
You may not use the Game or PlayOnline for any activities that are illegal, fraudulent, or a violation of the rights of any third party. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the following acts and activities are strictly prohibited and shall, without prejudice to any other rights or remedies that SEI may have, be cause for immediate termination of your PlayOnline account and your right to play the Game (or any other services) in connection therewith:

(a) Any activities consisting of selling, purchasing or exchanging “gil” or any other currency that may be used in the Game from time to time, characters, and/or Game items for value (including, but not limited to, any payment in kind and any payment in any currency recognized as legal tender in any country, state, territory or other jurisdiction anywhere in the world) through any means or venue, including, without limitation, Internet auctions or other online exchanges;
(b) The use of or participation in the Game for the purpose, in furtherance of, or in preparation for committing any illegal acts (including, by way of example but not limitation, any kind of gambling) or otherwise violating any applicable local, state, national or international law, or any rules or regulations promulgated thereunder;
(c) The interference with or disruption of the Game or the PlayOnline Service or any servers or networks connected thereto, or the failure to obey any procedures, policies, regulations or other requirements of any networks connected to the PlayOnline Service;
(d) The unauthorized use, duplication, transmission, display, performance or distribution of any items owned by you or third parties, or any other commission of any act of copyright, trademark, or patent infringement, trade secret infringement or misappropriation, or any other violation of any intellectual property or other proprietary right;
(e) The impersonation or attempted impersonation of any employee of SEI or any SEI partner or affiliate, any other user of the Game or the PlayOnline Service, or any other person, in a manner intended to deceive or mislead any third party, or in any effort to access the account of another Game player or PlayOnline user;
(f) The use of the Game or the PlayOnline Service to harass any third party, including other users of the Game and PlayOnline Service, or to solicit, encourage or threaten bodily harm or destruction of property; and
(g) Use of any cheat codes or cheat devices.
3.2 Indemnification.
You agree to indemnify, defend and hold SEI harmless from and against any and all claims, suits, actions, expenses, attorney and other legal fees and costs arising from your commission of any acts or activities prohibited by this Article 3.


Lol it seems as if Gambling is Also shunned, But I see so many Jeuno Casinos XD.

Edited, Sun Sep 11 08:12:39 2005

If any of you actually bothered to read the post by SE, you'd see that the cheat in question is alowing people to change their job anywhere in Vanadiel.

So yes, people doing that deserve to be banned.

As for the windower, it's unathorised.
You have no idea of what trouble third party software can cause to a program. And sure, some people who use it are using it just to be able to have net access and see Alla at the same time as playing.
But SE HAVE to stop people using third party software cos they're the ones who get the complaints if the game stops working.

If you are using a third party program to help you in the game, you should be banned. Period. No questions asked, none needed. Those are the rules, that's the way it goes. You don't like it, you don't have to play it. They are called CHEAT programs for a reason--because they help you cheat.
I, for one, am clapping my hands, and cheering out loud that SE takes the time to get rid of people who take an unfair advantage to get ahead rather than working hard for it like the rest of us.
I might get rated down for my thoughts, but those are my thoughts and I'm entitled to them.
If you got banned because you were cheating, then I laugh in your face, dance on your keyboard, and basically give you a big 'ole "TOLD YOU SO!" smile.
Have a nice day.

Regardless right or wrong... By joining the game you agree to their EULA. You do not have to play but to play you have to agree to their EULA. They say it's supposed to be this way and you decide to play it another way, you break their EULA. Right, wrong or otherwise, that's the way it is.

OMGAH U CAN CHEAT IF U HAVE A WINDOWER?!!!$!112341`#@!#%$! Hacks inject themselfs into the process when the game is loaded into memory. There is gonna be cheaters in every game.

Look at this.

In every other game u can alt tab and nothing happens. They have cheaters all the same.

We have it so you cant alt tab. And we have Cheaters. Hell we got bigger cheating going on and we have alt tab. Its a simple fact. It is not possible to prevent the windower either. If you know how the windower works you know that SE cannot tell your using a windower.. Because the game is runing full screen =)