Join us for part two of our interview with Turbines, Aaron Campbell.

Welcome back for the second part of our play session / interview we had with the Lord of the Rings Online developers over at Turbine. In Part 1 of this interview, we mostly covered topics pertaining to their new free content update. During the interview, however, we also spent a good deal of time asking them questions about the general development of LOTRO and some of their thoughts about what it's like to transform Tolkien's literary work into a graphical masterpiece. Thanks again to Aaron Campbell and Adam Mersky for their enthusiasm and dedication to this wonderful medium. Away we go!

ZAM: First of all, thanks a lot for giving us this opportunity to check out all of this. I was interested in speaking about Lord of the Rings Online in general. A lot of people are being influenced by the shadow of World of Warcraft. Do you guys think that it kind of affects the choices you make with this MMO? Or do you think that you guys pretty much acknowledge it's there, but you develop however you choose.

Aaron Campbell: I think there is overlap, certainly, between developers. People look for good ideas and take the best of those. For example, one of the features that we've really focused on for Lord of the Rings Online, dating back to launch, is what we call 'Deeds.' And these may be a bit familiar to you in the sense that some other developments have come out, recently, whether it be Warhammer or WoW, that have focused on these similar types of ideas, these accomplishments. I think there are places that all of us strive to give to that sort of connection to the player, but I also think that we're really charting our own path. Taking what was a deed system for us, almost two years on now, and then moving on to customizable appearances. We have this little outfit system where you can really customize the appearance of your character without relationship to your stats; we let you look the way you want to. Just because the great helmet you have with all the great bonuses on it doesn't look the way you want it to, you don't have to feel like you're out of your character, that you're playing a different role. And most recently with Moria we launched a new system: legendary items. These are items that you actually develop and grow with you and earn experience points, and you can develop almost as a character. You know, focus on specific legacies that fit your play styles. So, are we aware of other games out there? Absolutely. But we're looking for places where we make our own game and let players make their own story.

ZAM: Is there a feeling of loss when players move on from old raid content that they were doing in previous expansions to new raid content? As well, when new players enter, they're denied that opportunity to 'experience' the past. Is there any plan to enable them to experience all of that again?

Aaron: The only challenge there is time. We also want to go out there and build new things; we want to expand the world. We want to ensure that the players who have been with us for a long time have new challenges.

ZAM: How do you allow people to keep up with content, but allow the older players to retain their feeling of achievement? I mean, you either make everything obsolete as you release new content, or you make it so easy and so accessible that you can snag that new stuff within two weeks.

Aaron: Part of the way we do that is to provide varying levels of challenge. For example, with some of the higher level of content we're introducing with this book, we're introducing a battle. The thing about this battle is that it has optional objectives as you get better at it. So, if you defeated it once, you can come back and take out a new quest with an optional boss, or defending a certain NPC or doing it under a certain time limit, and getting additional rewards for that. But they're not going to be rewards that are utterly game breaking, they're going to be rewards that you enjoy that show your status and expertise. Similarly we're also introducing a new raid with Book 7 that's intended to be another stepping stone to the hardest content that's currently in the game, which is the "Watcher in the Water" in the Vile Maw. So the new raid we have in place is a slightly easier space; it allows you to get gear that you can currently only get by running fairly difficult challenges in the instances that we have - we call them the hard mode dungeons. The idea of an alternative path is that it's something you can do with friends. We're balancing out that difficulty. We're balancing out players who may have slightly more limited time, or perhaps a group that doesn't feel as 'hardcore' - whatever that is.

It's just about letting players have a different way to advance the way they want to. Advancement of items and equipment was especially a concern for us at the Moria release because we've seen other games before, where you have this dramatic shift, the rules change and you go "Wha? What happened?" We wanted to keep that progression smooth so you just don't feel that you've been slapped across the face and you're confused by it. We're putting more work with Book 7 launch to look back over that curve and smooth it out constantly - so you can feel that progression, but it's not that jarring.

ZAM: When you guys are creating all of this, doesn't 'following' the Fellowship put a finite time limit on your development? Basically up until they finish their task and leave?

Aaron: No not really. Because we're basing this on the book, we tend to take things from a book perspective. What we do is when you encounter Frodo or Aragorn earlier on in the story, we want you to be able to have those quests, and we want you to be able to play through that space. So we set a date on the door when you go and visit them. And on the door, it will say "If you're here, then you can assume that it's this date and this time." That way you can still be able to experience things, even if they would have happened before the latest point in the game. We want to make sure that all of the upgrades are there - we want to move forward, but we don't want to cut out the opportunities. Additionally, there are many paths that haven't been traveled, places that have not been seen, and directions where your path can vary from the fellowship. You may walk your own direction for awhile, and that gives us a lot of opportunities.

ZAM: What made you think of this combat system? Like queuing up actions instead of just simply button mashing. How did you think of this, and why?

Aaron: We wanted each class to feel distinct. We wanted to make sure they had their own 'feel' and 'progression.' The warden for example, has the 'Gambit' system, which almost feels like a combo system for Street Fighter. I can choose to attack and a shield block, and I get a cool combo out of it in the end. This is different than the Minstrel, who cheers up over time, or the Rune Keeper who tends to stack his abilities of different types to amplify each other. It's really about making sure each class feels distinct. We want you to be really able to 'master' a single class.

ZAM: What about PVPM (Player versus Player Monster, where players get the opportunity to play as 'monsters' to fight against their comrades)? Why 'implement' your PVP in that way?

Aaron: In Middle Earth, we have to be very careful in maintaining the integrity of the story and the space. We really couldn't see a situation where you had a Hobbit beating on a Hobbit.

ZAM: So you're trying to stay consistent with the storyline while still having that opportunity to do PVP.

Aaron: Exactly.

ZAM: I'm getting a very good sense of the game. It's certainly a very differently developed game than any I've ever seen, especially when it comes to Online RPGs. You guys have a very solid foundation and Tolkien obviously helps with his creation of the world, but you've taken this very seriously which I'm sure many people appreciate.

Aaron: Thank you, we have the license until up to 2017, and we've only covered maybe a third of Middle Earth, maybe a quarter. The idea of this being entertainment - clearly no different than any other subscription forms of entertainment. If you're a fan of Lord of the Rings, or a fan of really good role playing games, this is the game you should come to. The big thing you point out about our approach is that these things are meant to be around for a long time, they're part of a living breathing world.

ZAM: So I guess you guys also see this as another medium of art in its own sense. It's not like video game design is no longer low brow entertainment, but it's a tangible form of art.

Aaron: Yeah, it's the experience that we're building. It's the sound, the ambient effects, the art itself and the landscapes; putting it on top of a place that just feels right; putting those pieces together so that they fit and make sense. As well, taking the story and weaving the story into it and looking at the kind of things that players want, and putting them in like the housing system and deeds.

ZAM: This has been a great opportunity, thank you for everything that you've shown me!

Aaron: Certainly!

Christopher "Pwyff" Tom
Editor
ZAM.com