Does Difficulty Equate To Quality With MMORPGs?

This week, Pwyff decided to tackle the issue of difficulty in MMORPGs. Are we more satisfied when the game is tougher? What does it even mean when an MMO is called difficult? Read on to find out!

Throughout my years and years of MMORPG playing experience, I've definitely been happy to see this genre evolve in a variety of different ways. The implementation of quests over monster grinding, the massive increase in solo content over group content, the graphical upgrades and PvP game play becoming more and more important; the list goes on. Of all of these evolutions, however, none of these industry shifts appear to be as prevalent and genre-changing as the one that has managed to attach itself to many budding MMOs, and has also shown itself to be the cornerstone of Blizzard's 11.5 million subscriber base: 'easy casual' MMO gaming. No other term would also be as divisive in the MMORPG community as this.

In this regard, then, gamers will often note that, when something is easily achieved, it's considered to be 'casual' content, and it will be stigmatized as such. On the other hand, when something is extremely difficult to attain (Absolute Virtue items in FFXI, perhaps the "Alone in the Dark" achievement in World of Warcraft?), other players are quick to conclude that it requires too much of a 'hardcore' effort and, while the difficulty of the content will be appreciated, chances are high that very few players will be able to take part in it. In this way, the question I have is this: is difficulty the sign of a quality MMORPG, or, in our busy world, does the quality of an MMO now rest upon how many things a player can do in under an hour? This editorial may not provide all the answers, but at least it will give you something to think about!

Before I begin, I'd like to clarify that, when I say casual MMO gaming, I'm not referring to a playing schedule by which someone plays their MMO; I'm actually talking of the ways in which companies simply make their game appear to be less 'hardcore.' Of course, these two definitions are highly subjective and somewhat dependent upon each other to define each other. With 'hardcore' gaming, I am mostly referring to the old-school approach to MMO gaming, with hours spent scouring for guides and discussions on forums, and days spent dedicated to the pursuit of a single achievement. With 'casual' gaming, I am referring to the systems set up in many of our current day MMORPGs that are designed to facilitate quick gaming with low consequences and, some would argue, little difficulty for experienced MMOers.

There's a saying out there that goes: "May all your dreams, but one, come true," and I think this is the best way to describe any MMORPG ever made. We play MMOs in order to get a sense of achievement from getting bigger weapons or shinier armour. When we run out of swag to get, or things to achieve, it's certainly very depressing to know that there's nowhere left to go. Some MMOs, like Final Fantasy XI, EVE Online and Ragnarok Online, require a great degree of effort to achieve anything worthwhile in the game, and they apply rather ghastly consequences for 'bad' play (deaths, getting killed in PvP, etc). Progression and 'wish fulfillment' (gaining levels, getting items), in the case of these more difficult MMOs, is usually quite delayed, but the pleasure is definitely real upon achieving anything. Other MMOs, of which World of Warcraft is the most pre-eminent, reward players for almost anything they do, and consequences are extremely low for these kinds of games. In this way, the 'difficulty' of the game may be perceived as low, because progression just keeps coming, and achievements are more readily at hand.

But do any of these qualities really denote difficulty in a game? There are definitely a number of ways a developer can make something "artificially" difficult, and many of the more 'difficult' MMOs definitely have some moments of this. For example, in Final Fantasy XI, it typically takes a number of months (especially from a fresh level one) to grind your way to level 75 (multiply this by four if you're a Thief main). Not only this but, depending upon the job the player chose, they also have to level at least one or two (or three or four) sub jobs to 37 so that they aren't perceived as bad players. In Ragnarok Online, there are a number of quests that require hundreds, if not thousands, of items that are rarely dropped by a certain monster. With these examples, while it feels incredibly awesome to achieve these formidable tasks, is this a sign of difficulty, or is it just a matter of extending the life of your game by increasing the time it takes to complete a task?

Alternatively, there are other games that are inherently difficult to play just because their mechanics make them a little bit tougher to get used to. For example, Darkfall Online is definitely one of the most difficult games I've played, but that's because some of the animations and combat were so laggy that it required a great degree of getting used to. Part of the charm of DotA (the incredibly popular Warcraft III mod) is the fact that it's not ultra responsive; players need to take into account their individual hero's attack animations, turning speeds and responsiveness while also playing the game. When a graphically upgraded version of DotA came out (Heroes of Newerth), many players criticized it as being 'too easy' because it played just like DotA but without the animation lag. If the game play itself inhibits the game in a noticeable manner, does this also contribute to the concept of 'difficulty,' or is the game simply being annoying?
penis
Finally, many games implement many consequences for player actions, and this can severely affect the 'casual' player who just loads up the game, but doesn't want to read guides on forums and websites. Some games have incredibly steep consequences for deaths of their players, like a hefty EXP drop in Final Fantasy XI, which can result in the loss of a level, or Ragnarok Online, where each death constitutes a loss of 1% of your EXP, which, at level 90+, can equate to many hours of work. Other games force the player to 'define' their character via a free-flowing system of choices that will shape the growth of the character. I've been playing a great deal of Champions Online these days to get a feel for the game, and while it advertises that players can create absolutely unique champions, they neglected to tell me that trying to change these decisions costs an incredible amount of money. In this way, I made a critically bad choice a few levels back, but when I went to undo my choice, I found that there was no way I could afford the cost. I had to reroll my character fresh just because of my careless mistake. While these consequences are great for forcing players to feel the importance of their actions (and not just carelessly throwing themselves off cliffs in order to travel faster by resurrecting at a graveyard ahead), they're also really strict, and can make a player feel very paranoid about making hasty decisions in the game.

On the other hand, however, there are also forms of difficulty that demand creative thinking, quick reactions and intelligent play. Many players will cite fighting games, like Guilty Gear, Street Fighter 4, Smash Brothers and Blazblue as being the epitome of the above, but only in the context of playing against other players. In an MMORPG, while there are certainly many opportunities to engage in PvP, players point to the fact that they want other content to be difficult in this way as well. One disgruntled 'hardcore' World of Warcraft raider noted that Mimiron (a boss in Ulduar) on hard mode and M'uru from the Sunwell Plateau (in The Burning Crusade expansion) were two very challenging and fun bosses to fight. Alternatively, however, other bosses in Ulduar were only difficult because they were given demanding enrage timers (time limits as to how long it took you to kill the boss) or they simply dealt incredible amounts of damage.

When it comes down to it, it really is subjective as to who's playing the game, and what he or she would like out of it. As a competitive player who also considers himself to be a 'hardcore' player without the time to dedicate to it, I prefer games that don't reward me for picking up a stick, and I really do enjoy games that employ some form of consequence for negative game play. Would you like to play a game that has few rewards along the way, but gives you that satisfied feeling of achievement every time? Or, perhaps, would you like to play a game that has a lot of things to offer, but also has top guilds clearing all endgame content two weeks after it's released? While upcoming MMOs may have the chance to balance themselves in the middle of the scale (I'm looking at you, Secret World!), everyone should realize that MMOs are here for us to enjoy - if you think that your MMO is too 'easy' or too 'hard,' maybe it's time to check out the hundreds of others out there!

Christopher "Pwyff" Tom
Editor
ZAM.com

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No
# Sep 17 2009 at 1:30 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
As stated before: it's impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time.


But... isn't that the ultimate unattainable goal of an MMO maker?
It's not a lowest common denominator sort of thing. Blizzard simultaneously gives casuals and hardcore more things to do as the game advances, smoothing out the process as they learn. That way they please the most that they can most of the time making the bean-counters and players happy. This is arguably the best 'qualitative' measure in fact given the variables posited in the original post. All else is subjective.
Reply
# Sep 16 2009 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
Sorry if I missed a reply button, but a common theme running through a lot of the replies seems to be some saying that WoW is MMOs for dummies, and others praising the fun factor of WoW.

Let's keep in mind the myriad of things that WoW did that are (IMO) invaluable steps forward for MMOs that should undoubtedly be standards from here on.

Abundant content, easy to follow, multiple paths.
Very fast OOC recovery.
Fast interhub travel.
Movable bind points.
Fast OOC foot travel (mounts).
Summoning characters.
Preplanned class spells that combined in to thought out patterns for combat.
Mobs balanced for reliable kills.
NO death penalties.

These are hardly pioneered by WoW. But they're the first game that combines them to create the most frustration-less experience possible. I'm not about to argue that WoW was perfect, it had horrible features both global and inter-class that persisted for years without address, and the endgame was barren for a long time. But WoW provided a carebear playthrough that was immensely satisfying and paved the way for WAR, AoC, and many other influenced designs to expand in other areas.

FF, Aion and their ilk are bad games that never moved past the single player RPG experience. Even single player RPGs managed to move past this for many of the best games, providing thought out playthroughs enriched with content and purpose, but even they are often boxed in to a single story thread. MMOs allow, and demand, multiple threads and constant variety. The multiplayer aspect helps this along greatly if utilised (as shown wonderfully, if flawed by underpopulation, by WARs public quest system).

Hopefully upcoming MMOs can incorporate frustration free, content rich, multiplayer enabled gameplay- finished off with a repeatable and varied endgame. After this economy, community, stat tracking and other secondary features would be great, but without a strong core the game will fail as quickly as all the others.

But the most important thing to remember is that upcoming MMOs aren't trying to replace WoW, they're trying to supersede WoW. If people wanted to play WoW, they'd be playing WoW. The oft heard whine that 'you shouldn't compare a game that is just released with one that has been out for 5 years' is idiotic. The games are competing against one another and if your players are not having as much fun in the new game as they were in the other then you have as much right selling a game as you do a poorly homemade hamburger while sitting outside McDonalds.

WAR and AoC both managed to imitate WoW design while bringing something unique to the table (one game more than the other), but both fell flat in the endgame and both suffered a mass exodus. Whether this is fair or not is irrelevant, this is how it is and developers need to recognise this.

Edited, Sep 17th 2009 12:31am by RisingAshes
MMORPG
# Sep 16 2009 at 10:43 AM Rating: Excellent
I would like to add my input into this conversation.

First off, as has been said many times now, difficulty is very subjective. So, just by that definition, difficulty cannot mean a better game.

A game has to have 'all the right elements' in place, and in the right levels. I have played EQ, EQ2, and now WoW. (a few others as well, but not worth naming).

Since we are talking specifically about MMORPG's lets focus on that. In my opinion, and that is all it is, it isn't so much the content of the game, as the people you are playing with. Getting a small group of friend together, and 'grinding for materials' can make what would be a chore, fun.

The difference between MMORPG's and Traditional RPG's is the multiplayer, group setting. While traditional RPG's are fun in their own right, MMORPG’s are fun in a different way.

The other posts here focus on actual game content, game mechanics, etc. But I think the main issue to focus on is the comradery, and dare I say it, friendships you build online. Once you log into your favorite MMORPG’s, you become who and what you want. The meek, weak, timid, shy "geek" at school, can instantly transform into his (or her) guilds most popular, strongest, bravest warrior. That in and of itself can be reward enough for some people. The kindness and recognition from others, and opened acceptance. MMORPG's offer this more than any other genre of game. Yes, FPS has online multiplayer, XBOX Live, Playstation network, WII whatever it is, all offer the chance to recreate yourself, but lack that....um...rewarding feeling. Don't get me wrong, they are more than fun, but again, we are focusing on MMORPG's.

To me, what makes a good MMORPG, is the Varity of game play offered. Group and raid area's that offer higher risk, reward, ability to play and accomplish tasks (quests, mob hunting, grinding) skill trades (or whatever your favorite MMORPG calls it)for as many "classifications" of gamer.

I have been playing Wow for only a few months. So far, the game is fun, moves fast enough to keep me interested, with enough down time, so that I can not just go from mob to mob, nonstop, yet not so long as I can read a book between each fight. I know I have just started to scratch the surface of the game, and a lot of thought has gone into quests. They are not just go kill this mob, and bring me x amount of items. There is story to it, and quest chain story lines, tend to pull you in.

So, no I don't think 'difficulty' in a game equals quality, as much as content, details, and accessibility to many different playing styles.
Not entirely on board
# Sep 16 2009 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
I'd suggest that it is impossible for solo content to be 'hard'. MMO characters are given a set of skills, and the individual input does little to alter the outcome.

Group content, on the other hand, is largely influenced by competence but even that quickly reaches the softcap for diminishing returns.

In MMOs there are only three true states: fun, boring and "that's stupid". It doesn't matter how long something takes as long as the player is engaged. WoW provided content for every second until the hardcap, in addition it staved off burnout by always providing several different areas one could switch to for keeping things fresh. If twice the content was added and the time to cap was doubled I doubt many would mind.

Other games are unable to provide the content required and disguise the shift in to boring as 'difficulty'. Killing a mob ten thousand times isn't difficult the same way moving bags of sand from one spot to another isn't pro football.

It's a shame the recently released Aion seems to of missed the new standard set many years ago (which WAR and other recently releases took on board), hopefully future MMO developers don't make the same mistake. The game market doesn't have room for lazily designed 'Asian MMOs' that try to pass off emptiness for a feature.

I like the DoTA example as a case where poor reaction times actually works, but I'd ask you to imagine the game from a MMO perspective. Your gaze is now fixed, your allies no longer give you sight beyond your screen, you have a minimap but it is devoid of anything but map. What I take from this is how horribly frustrating these sloppy controls would now become. Your slow turns would now no longer have the benefit of 3 screen lengths foresight, positions of enemies would now have to be interpreted solely from obscure chat messages. It would be a stream of "that's stupid" moments before you ragequit for good.

The importance of responsive controls can be (if I may as well stray from MMOs for examples) traced back to the mario series. Button responsiveness, gameplay and mechanics were slaved over close to any other aspect until they got some of the best responses you could get from a 2 button system. 1 and 3 still stand as some of the best games of all time, praise that would never exist if 50% of players had quit after a lagged/overextended jump caused them to die to the first koopa, or fall down the first hole.

And since I've already long ventured in to 'stream of consciousness' mode- this may just be me- but I've found 'punishments' for failure to be one of the most offputting mechanics a game can possibly have. Playing a rogue in Aion and being unable to heal my xp loss for a very accident prone character and falling to my death after trying to mine an air node was the last straw in me never playing that game again. Failure itself is a punishment, a realisation of lost time. When extra punishments are heaped on for unavoidable gameplay only encourages defensive gameplay and quickly heightens boredom. Games should always save punishments for when players choose to risk danger for great rewards, not just to artificially increase the amount they need to grind.
Gotta love individuality
# Sep 16 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Excellent
**
747 posts
People play the MMO's they want to play and stick to the ones they like regardless of difficulty. I've played Age of Conan, Everquest, World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Ragnarok, 9 Dragons, Shaiya and.....I think thats it. Just so you know where my experiences are coming from.

FFXI is the "hardest" MMO I've played because getting anything done just took so much work, not that what you were doing was hard, but getting groups together 100000000 times so you could get a job to 75 and have the supporting subjobs to go with it and then trying to get groups for missions or quests or anything else that needed a group (which is EVERYTHING....depending on what your main job was I guess). I loved it, when I had the time to devote to it. It had a great reward system because you feel good about accomplishing something as simple as leveling or getting that uber piece of gear you've been wanting, even if it's just from the AH because it meant you worked hard enough to get the money to buy it. And there is still a boss in the game that, as far as I know, has yet to be taken down legitamently in about 2 years (Absolute Virtue).. which is cool and also freaking retarded at the same time. Do these things make the game better, worse, the same or does it mean anything at all and just that it's a different flavor of MMO... I'll go with the later.

WoW on the other hand is the "easiest" MMO I've played. Hardly any penalties for dying, easy to get gear, money, groups, crafting is simplistic yet rewarding and leveling is easy, mind numbingly boring if you've already done it once, but easy. However, with all that said, unlike FFXI you can do all of the things I listed above in the space of an hour or so, whereas with FFXI for you to have a fruitful day you need to put in at least 3 hours to accomplish anything, crafting included, albeit the actual crafting doesn't take long, but for you to craft you need to gather all your materials first, and that can take hours. Because of the easy access to everything in WoW and the ever growing MMO population that has a life outside of the game, this style of game design is the most accessable and therefore the most fun and easy to play (fun is relative I know, but by "fun" I mean least aggravating/ time consuming I guess), making it the most profitable way to make an MMO.

I loved FFXI when I had the time for it, but now I have a full time job, am married and have 2 kids which doesn't leave me 3-4 hours a day to play a game like FFXI to get anything done, but I can logon to WoW, or other similarly easy accessable game, play for an hour or so and feel like I did something.

I will say this though, for a game to be consistently playable, the gameplay or rewards have to be challenging enough or difficult enough to acquire, to make things interesting. This is not necessarily "difficulty" but just a balanced risk vs reward system.
What I like...
# Sep 16 2009 at 7:10 AM Rating: Default
45 posts
What I like about WoW (and the reason I left FFXI for it and haven't gone back, no matter how much I miss my job system...) is the minimal amount of wasted time. In FFXI, for example, by the time I got into the 50s, finding a levelling group took hours, and only sometimes did I leave the group with more XP than I started with. Not a very rewarding feeling, and crafting was expensive enough that you either had to farm the materials yourself or have an alternative income.

In WoW, I think we perceive the sheer quantity of solo material as making it primarily a solo game. However, this is basically all filler. Let's put levelling aside (you only level once, unless you really want multiple characters.) Once you reach end-game (the REAL game), you have several options: Go do solo content for fun/money, do PvP for unending challenge, do end-game for uber rewards. What WoW did was make it both easy to find groups for content that requires it, and give you things to do while you wait. (That "things to do while you wait" was where FFXI really fell down for me.)

Last night I waited almost two hours for a 5-man group. Was I upset? Not really. I spent the time working on something grindy. I felt like my grind was no big deal, because I was at least getting some increase (even if it was boring), and it would have been wasted time if I was just sitting in the city waiting to do what I really wanted to do.

In my view, as long as I can feel like I'm accomplishing things without having to waste time, I'm okay with it.
#REDACTED, Posted: Sep 16 2009 at 6:48 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What a funny little list, who come up with the rating scores to give FFXIV a 10 and games like AION and WOW 7?...oh well its all subjective; I think AION and WOW are better and others should be subjected to a labotomy
difficulty level
# Sep 16 2009 at 5:42 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,594 posts
I think the answer to that is mixed.

There is a great deal of satisfaction in beating something hard for the first time; even if it isn't something that's necessarily considered hard by anyone else, and it's only hard for you because you're a newb. I've had countless moments like these. My first 2-3 fight in XI was downright epic and my ls provided a full party for this. Of course I know it's soloable; I've done it later myself-- but that first time was memorable.

Likewise, I was really excited when my ls beat Hydra back when it was new. First two tries were wipes; both times we'd get it to low hp and it'd spam physical shield until we lost enough xp to give up.

I think a lot of enjoyment out of a MMO comes from the people that one plays with, rather than the perceived difficulty. While some people certainly play to be the first to do something, the best at something; most people play for the social aspect. Otherwise, you might as well just play an offline game for the high scores.

Killing large dragons with one's ls is fun; however, the land kings system in XI is seriously not fun for anybody who's any semblance of legit player. A former lsmate of mine called Aery camps as 'ls bonding time'. I don't know if I can seriously consider it that. It usually amounted to 3 hours of wasted time, watching the current botter ls in claiming. Not fun.

Difficulty does come into play; where you don't want something to be stupidly easy; but also you don't want repetition; or unreasonable hard. However, all of these will be fun with the right people, as long as it's not the only option for advancing your character.





hundreds of others
# Sep 16 2009 at 3:42 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
if you think that your MMO is too 'easy' or too 'hard,' maybe it's time to check out the hundreds of others out there!

I completely agree with this, and will point Bhodi to this article next time he ******* and moans about WoW being too easy.
Reply
# Sep 16 2009 at 12:01 AM Rating: Decent
35 posts
First, it is not clear that 'subjective' would be the correct term to use. Typically subjective means that some aspect is dependent on the observer, i.e. user. I think, therefore, we can say that the difficulty of a game and its relation to its quality can be considered 'relative.' That is, as it has been stated, what is difficult to one may be not difficult to another. In this sense, we can generate a study to find such an answer.

Regardless of such complications, I personally believe that the difficulty of a game can be related to how much it is appreciated and how much the user must motivate him/herself to complete such tasks. Two things can be noted about this however, while this does admit that the difficulty of the game makes the game better quality, there comes a point where too much difficulty is counterproductive. Many people I know that are addicted to MMO's or have such an urge to play typically "are bound to play" not because they enjoy the game as such, but because they realize that their tasks require that they be on the game--or trying to make more friends, etc. to help them complete the task. In this case, they get burned out. Secondly, and almost in contrast to this point, there are cases in which the difficulty does not have anything to do with the quality of the game. A game, if it is fun, is meant to be played. For instance, I enjoy playing card games, to which are not that difficult. However, they are addicting and a new experience every time. So there are, at many times, addicting and good games that are not difficult.

Thus, from the above (rambling!), it can be concluded that the difficulty of the game is not necessary for a good game, but can be considered (still questionable) sufficient for a good game--everyone loves a challenge.
Difficulty
# Sep 15 2009 at 10:32 PM Rating: Default
**
372 posts
I have one name that would increase the difficulty of any MMO:
"Leeroy Jenkins"


Even with this, difficulty (like beauty), is in the eye of the beholder. Grinding isn't hard per say, just long, drawn out, and annoying. On the flip side, making it so that you can level up 10 levels in about 1 hour kinda makes it so that when you hit the final level, you aren't feeling a little empty.

It's a hard balancing act, and sometimes, those small MMO's are the most rewarding (I play FFXI and enjoying my solo time in Ether Saga).

As stated before: it's impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time.
Depends
# Sep 15 2009 at 6:10 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,684 posts
Quote:
Does Difficulty Equate To Quality With MMORPGs?


Long story short, I'm going to say 'It depends', like I answer to 99% of the questions. Difficulty, I think, is one of the things that can increase or decrease the quality of an MMOG - Difficulty in the form of a fight/encounter being demanding in terms of character/game knowledge and reflexes, that is. My definition of difficulty here involves time; I don't see quests that require you to get 100 items with an incredibly low droprate as hard, simply because there is no time limit to gathering the items. Technically seen, you could spend 10 years grinding for items to get quests like that done.

That said, I simply think that a decent difficulty curve based on my earlier given definition of difficulty will always improve a game, and never drag it down. Grinding is never 'difficult', just often boring. With the right tools grinding can be a lot of fun though, seeing as I've probably spent several hours in the Assassin's Creed game doing nothing but killing random guards in an interesting looking fashion - and this technically means that even the aspect of grinding can improve a MMOG's quality.
Good peice...
# Sep 15 2009 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
It's such a subjective term when we talk about 'causal' or 'hardcore' concepts. Both AV and PW in FFXI don't count. Yet the quality of a good MMO requires a solid challenge for me. I don't care for grinds, however WoW's easy leveling system and straightforward quests seem to remind me of FF Mystic Quest. It's like "RPG's for dummies" and that isn't any fun. On the flip side, you don't want a game that makes you want to toss the controller/kb into the wall either.

The old saying you can't please everyone is so true. The time sinks in FFXI really irk me. We've been doing Nyzul Isle for a long time now and even with TH4, the drop rate is terrible. It's so horrid, our static is forced to lot on the gear they don't need/want just so we can feel like we got something for our effort.

Easy and casual go hand and hand. People that play WoW have it much easier than those that play FFXI. Of course there are challenges in both games, but FFXI isn't for the timid or people with a real life. It's much easier to be a casual player in WoW and get stuff accomplished in a hour or so than in FFXI. The forced groupings really hurt as well.

All I can is that FFXIV seems to be catering to the causal crowd that has less time to play MMO's. Because this is SE were talking about, I'm confident that challenge will remain when it comes to the story lines and event stuff.

It's so hard to put my feelings for this subject into words. So enough of my babbling.
hmm
# Sep 15 2009 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
So I play WoW now (1.7years), and played FFXI for 3.5 years.

What I like/d about both is the "Fun factor".

I played the Dragoon job (class) in FFXI. When I left 2 years ago, DRGs were starting to actually get some good stuff in Updates to make them even more useful in groups. Out of 3.5 years of game play, it took me over 2 years to hit 75 with DRG. It was my 1st and only Job to 75. There were many times I thought about changing jobs (and would), but I was "pulled" back to DRG.
The reason, Fun Factor. I enjoyed being a Galka DRG. I was sooooo happy when I and a few LSers killed Ose and I got my AJ.
I was estatic when I finally, after days and groups that fell apart, got my O.Hat.
The hours in groups, the friends I made, the End-Game content I thought I'd never see.
All was fun. And then when I made it to 75, I decided to try out other jobs farther then lv37.
I remember farming the NM Goblin for the Modly Earring (or that is what we called it) for my BLM, it took me 2 weeks of logging in every 2 hours I could spare (to this day, I still say if he doesn't cast an AM, it won't drop..).
But being a Galka, I had downsides. I didn't want to play the "Galka" classes (MNK, WAR,SAM) and the hole "be what ever race you want" idea is there, but it can be your downside (Galka mage!? lolMP pool...). And I slowly found my self not playing as much.
The fun factor wasn't there any more.
However, one day I decided to give BST a try (only leveled it to 10).
The Fun Factor came back, BST was a blast. I didn't have to group, all the EXP was mine, drops -mine. And I knew (was in my LS) a really cool BST who could help me out.
I had to leave FFXI due to money, I had hopped to return but I was gone to long. I'm pretty sure my character has been deleted from the Server.

I then bounced around other free MMOs. I couldn't find any that were really fun to me and could keep me playing for more then the 1st 20 levels or so.

I decided then to give WoW a try. I mean it was still going strong, was America's #1 MMO, was cheaper per months to pay (I know FFXI is $12.95, but I had a few much needed mules that drove the price up) then FFXI, and I had a bunch or RL friends who played (I played FFXI w/ Online friends, nothing wrong with that. There is just something about playing with actual people you know more fun, imo).
WoW had that Fun Factor. And it still does for me. I have an 80 Hunter and a DK at 77 with the hopes of getting a Shaman up there and a Troll Druid when the next x-pack comes out.
I like how quest reward me for walking 20 feet and getting the lazy NPC some boar meat.
The end game, something I haven't seen much off, is fun.

Quote:
Does Difficulty Equate To Quality With MMORPGs?


For me. No.
I've played some "hard" free MMOs. It is what turned me away.
I've played some super easy ones as well, they were just too easy.

A game that can be right in the middle could be a great game.

One thing I don't like in MMOs is the penalty from Death. FFXI's Down Level was harsh. I don't mid losing some EXP, but if it makes me drop down a level... grr!
I think, after I hit 75 with my DRG, I dinged 75 about 20 more times during the rest of my FFXI time

Hardcore vs Casual...
I like to think I am Casual, but I do give MMOs way to much time so I seem Hardcore.
But I don't freak out if I'm 3rd on the DPS list because I don't have the best gear that takes for ever to get (done did that in FFXI >.>). If my Guildies really cared, they wouldn't ask me to come with them.

Someday, someone will make the best MMO.
It will unite the world, it will be epic.
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Sandinmyeye | |Tsukaremashi*a |
Decent read
# Sep 15 2009 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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111 posts
I will say that yes, for me anyhow, difficulty is a sign of quality in an MMO. "Hardcore" and "Difficult" however are as you said very subjective and different for each individual. What one person perceives as difficult, another may not even consider when examining the difficulty of a game. For that reason, I won't pretend to speak for anyone other than myself and my views in this post.

For starters, let me first explain my predominant MMO experiences. I have played both WoW and FFXI for significant periods of time. I do not consider a "grind" neither difficult or extremely hardcore, rather a relatively non-creative way of giving you a relatively non-creative reason for playing the game. IE its filler. Both of these games had this kind of content in a variety of forms (Faction/Reputation Grinding, Level Grinding, Quest Grinding, Instance Grinding, etc).

They key difference between these two games, and essentially the reason that many people claim that WoW is "casual" game is because Blizzard took away many of the grindier and hindered aspects of the first gen MMOs in an attempt to offer an enhanced and meaningful game play experience every time you logged on. Where you have a very long road to travel in leveling up in FFXI to max out character level, in WoW it is not nearly as much of a perceived grind due to quest experience points and the fact that any class is designed to be able to solo from 1-80. In FFXI you have to contend with limited xp camps, potential class desirability (LOL PUP etc), and generally a reliance on other people being competent players in order to level up. In WoW, you might have to deal with these issues but it has a far lesser impact on you individually. Also, none of this by my definition quantifies the games difficulty. They are just pain in the *** aspects that can be overcome with patience.

Overall, I would say that both games are difficult, but in thier own different ways. FFXIs combat is harder to master but WoWs combat is much faster paced. Both have interesting and very challenging boss encounters for average end game players. In both games, teamwork is very important. Each game offers something to different audiences with varying degrees of difficulty.
Decent read
# Sep 17 2009 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
As stated before: it's impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time.


But... isn't that the ultimate unattainable goal of an MMO maker?
It's not a lowest common denominator sort of thing. Blizzard simultaneously gives casuals and hardcore more things to do as the game advances, smoothing out the process as they learn. That way they please the most that they can most of the time making the bean-counters and players happy. This is arguably the best 'qualitative' measure in fact given the variables posited in the original post. All else is subjective.
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