Horrifying Terrorist Attacks on the U.S. :: ZAM

Horrifying Terrorist Attacks on the U.S.Sep 11th, 2001 at 8:03 AM by Allakhazam

This is not game news, but is more important. I am putting this up here because many people are trying to figure out what is going on and this way we can share what we know. Here's what I know so far: - At about 8:45 a plane crashed into one of the World Trade Center towers. 14 minutes later, andther plane crashed into the second tower. - Another plane crashed into the Pentagon soon after that. - A bomb went off at the State Department. - Both World Trade Center Towers have now completely collapsed, presumably killing everyone who was unable to evacuate in time, and also the firemen and police who were at the towers trying to help people evacuate. - Another plane has gone down somewhere in Western Pennsylvania. Possibly just a coincidence or possibly an attempt to hyjack it to another target. Words cannot express the horror.

Tags: General, News

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I've seen a few posts from people objecting to the Isrealie

# Oct 23 2001 at 5:44 PM Rating: Excellent

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6 posts

Hey, the Palastinians were the ones who have broken every cease fire agreement made in the last year. Either Arafat doesn't have enough control to stop the Hammas(spelled as I friggin feel like spelling it) or he's a liar. I think both are true actually and frankly I can't blame the Isrealies one bit for rolling into the occupied lands. The Isrealies returned oil fields to Egypt and in fact offered the Palistinians alot more than just the occupied lands last year. The prospect of peace disturbed the PLO so much that they declared an Entifadah which resulted in many Isrealie deaths. If the PLO cared even a little about 10 year old girls they wouldn't hide behind them. It always bothered me to see the PLO, an organization based completely on Faith based Hatred play the American media so well.

Guys listen up, If you aren't a reporter that can be used, and you arent handing out checks or food, stay on the tour bus unless your in Isreal or you're a muslim. Its not the Isrealies fault they hate Jews, It's not Indias fault they hate Hindus, it's not the Lebenises fault they hate Christians and it's not the United States fault they hate us. Get over it.

What the US must do now

# Sep 18 2001 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent

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4 posts

Attacks on Muslim women in the streets of US cities in
recent days suggest that stereotyping of all Muslims, as somehow
responsible for the actions of a few, and the thirst for revenge, for the
horrific terrorism in America, are stronger than cool-headed, rational
thinking. This is an unfortunate turn of events for the cohesion of the
multicultural society.

But, more importantly, this is shaping up to be a fateful turn in relations
between Western states, led by the United States, and the Muslim world - a
turn that may become a self-fulfilling prophesy of doom.

The focus on Osama bin Laden by the US administration and the media
misses the point. It concentrates on a man and seeks to physically remove
him by surgical bombing raids and cruise missile attacks.

But bin Laden is not a man to be eliminated. He is a phenomenon. And that
cannot be "neutralised" by surgical attacks.

Bin Laden represents a backlash against the US for its role in supporting
undemocratic and unpopular regimes, such as the Saudi dynasty and the
former Shah of Iran, and the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands. The
public in the Middle East is outraged by this record, and the continued
US-led sanctions on Iraq, which are causing daily death and misery for the
ordinary Iraqis.

Bin Laden happens to be the most recent spokesman for this rage. Others
had before him delivered the same message, perhaps with less deadly force
- for example, Muammar Gaddafi and Ayatollah Khomeini. Still others are
likely to do the same after bin Laden.

So what can be done? There are three main areas that require urgent
attention.

First, the US needs to revise its approach on stability in oil-rich states at any
cost. This approach justified pumping up the detested regime of the Shah in
Iran in the 1970s, when it was clear for anyone who wanted to see that all
was not well there. This approach has also led to supporting the repressive
Saudi dynasty, which does not even pretend at democracy.

The policy of supporting unpopular but US-friendly regimes to ensure
uninterrupted flow of oil to Western markets has seriously damaged the
credibility of the US as a champion of democracy in the Middle East.

Second, the US needs to allow the implementation of United Nations
resolutions 169 and 242, which call for the return of Palestinian refugees to
their homes and the withdrawal of Israeli occupying forces from Palestinian
lands. The US veto has blocked the UN from enforcing its resolutions in
relation to Israel.

This is in sharp contrast to the US strategy of coalition-building and
securing UN endorsement for its action against Iraq. The apparent
hypocrisy has caused disillusionment in the Middle East.

Only a concerted effort by the US to distance Washington from Tel Aviv
and to act as an impartial and honest broker, in line with UN resolutions,
can begin to restore confidence in the US.

Third, the US needs to re-examine its hardline policy on Iraq. What is
achieved by continued sanctions on Iraq? The regime of Saddam Hussein is
not suffering, but ordinary citizens are. Continued sanctions have
undermined the ability of the Iraqi people to feed themselves and have done
a lot to antagonise public opinion in the Middle East against what appears to
be American arrogance and double standards.

Many in the Middle East regard the US strategy against Iraq as the latest
episode in a systematic effort to suppress any regime or movement that
steers an independent course from America.

The backlash against the US is not about Islam and Christianity. It is about
a sense of outrage among a people who feel overwhelmed and hard-done
by the sole superpower in the 21st century. This outrage does not justify
terror. Nothing does. But it breeds conflict and extremism.

Fighting terrorism by focusing on such shadowy figures as Osama bin
Laden ignores the root causes of terrorist campaigns. Only systematic and
sustained efforts at reformulating the US strategy in the Middle East can
disarm terrorists and undermine their support base.

This cannot be achieved overnight. It took nearly 40 years for the US to
make an unfavorable impression in the Middle East. It could take just as
long to change it. But never is too late to start.

The alternative is too costly

RE: What the US must do now

# Oct 23 2001 at 10:59 AM Rating: Default

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6 posts

Hey Wilf. I don't know if your an American or not, but if you are why don't you get the hell out of our country. If your not an American please leave or stay where you are if you haven't come here already.

This is just a no win situation for the whole world and I'm tired of people like you judging America and the West on a Unilatiral basis. There are no Democratic forces or people to deal with in most of the middle east. The United States Deals with the people in the middle east who are running these countries, period.

Have you ever been to the middle east? Do you think there would be one Isrealie man, woman or child alive in the middle east if the Palastinians had the military might the Isrealies do?

Look, if I were at the head of the Theocracy in Iran or if I were a dictator in any country in Asia or Africa I'ld be thanking my lucky stars for people like you. I'ld have 20 golf Courses built in my own honor and spend the rest of my life hitting balls on them, comforted by the knoledge that my people will never hold me responsible for their missery. They will blame the United States and the Jews.

The problem with the muslim world is that many muslims hate all non muslims as well as hating all of the muslims they feel are a little less muslim than themselves. Your belief that the U.S. can gain peace by appeasing such people is terribly flawed and outright dangerous.

The standards your using to judge the Saudi government are valid, but there only one or two governments if any at all in the muslim world that are any more ledgitimate.

The Palistinians could have had a homeland years ago, but this isn't now nor was it ever about the Palistinians; They are pawns. The only problem the Muslim world has with the Isrealies is that their not muslims. The only problem the Muslim world with Lebenon was that there were non Muslims living there and being prosperous. Do you think the rest of the Islamic world would give a damn about India being in the Kashmir if India was Islamic?

Our current problem with Terrorism is entirely the result of faith based hatred on the part of many people in the Muslim world and the fact that none of the governments in that part of the world are prepared to fight it and who are in many cases the source of it.

We are currently bombing and attacking a country that is and has been the third largest recipiant of foreign aid from the United states for the last decade. What do you think the Taliban would do to their neighbors, competitors or us if they had thousands of nuclear weapons and other countries didnt? What would Iraq do Iran or Syria would do if they had nuclear weapons and others didnt?

Let's apply these same standards your using to judge U.S. policies and attitudes to these countries whose positions and feelings you are defending.

You make me sick Wilf. Don't sweat it though, other people are gonna bleed and die to keep self loathing trash like you safe.

RE: What the US must do now

# Sep 09 2002 at 7:44 PM Rating: Decent

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34 posts

QUOTE:
Hey Wilf. I don't know if your an American or not, but if you are why don't you get the hell out of our country. If your not an American please leave or stay where you are if you haven't come here already.
END QUOTE

I doubt anyone will read this at this late date, but this is nauseating. If you are an American, you are not only allowed to criticize the government- it is your patriotic duty to do so when you disagree with its actions. How dare you tell an American to leave the country for speaking his mind? You would make this country into what you despise- a place when no one can speak if it is not wrapped in the flag. To hell with you, Gundarson. In fact, the Bush Administration stinks- their polices are in no way going to reduce the threat to our nation. If we attack Iraq, it will not be to save lives, it will be for oil, so Bush and Cheney and their pals can rack up a few more million. That's why we were in Kuwait and that's the reason for Iraq now. And poor naive dupes like you follow along like sheep to the slaughter- literally, in this case. Did you ever think the whole rest of the world might have a valid opinion about this, moron?

It is obvious that you didn't even read Wilf's post. It seemed to you to disagree with jingoism and knee-jerk, brainless, military response to this situation- so you condemned it. It was in fact a well-reasoned plea for the correct actions to be taken.

QUOTE:
You make me sick Wilf. Don't sweat it though, other people are gonna bleed and die to keep self loathing trash like you safe.
END QUOTE

People are going to bleed and die, but it won't make anyone safe- just the opposite. We aren't getting at the root of the problem, and you are incapable of helping.

No one wins a war

# Sep 18 2001 at 11:08 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

The Pages That Remain

and so we react each differently,
she with a makeshift altar in front of her home
he with wicked words on his lips,
they with life's a ***** shoulder shrugs
and others with river eyes for what died
when the tower fell;

so close, these deaths,
some relative or friend
lost in manhattan catacombs
so near you can almost feel their breath on your
cheek,
those shadows tiptoeing through your dreams,
she who had just fallen in love,
they who had just kissed their children,
they who had woken on sheetless lonely beds,
he who I will remember for the smile
that always seemed poised on his lips,
all of these people as innocent and deaths as tragic
as the 30,000 who died in indian floods
and the iraqi children who have crumbled
into toy-sized graves
from colds and no medicine,
embargo suffocation.

can you feel all of these as deeply?
Is there hierarchy in death?

the hard truth is that
while the hands of those in new york office
may be clean
we live in a land whose paws are bloodred bloody,
we are innocents in a country long guilty,
our big stick breathing more hate into the world
than love,
defense of democracy and collateral damage
our euphemistic sins,
and now we are struck back
by cowards no doubt,
by men who too play the game of war,
and they with nasty ugly determination,
but I ask,
what else would come
but a fatal faceslap
when the sound of the crying children
we've helped slaughter directly and indirectly
has been our screaming alarm clock for years
and yet we've never woken up?

in history books
will they say the towers falling
was our very nation on its knees,
an empire on the brink of self-destruction,
a country so enamored with its own reflection
it never saw the rotting within?

america,
are you dying?
do I hear the sound
of another force rumbling,
another empire emerging,
not the terrorist one
no for they will die in the same grave as thee
but the one with an olive branch and not a gun,
this one with the goddess in front of the phallus,
this one cradling love instead of profit,
this one that grabs hold of the reins
and finally frees the horses?

could this humble empire be us,
those of us many on this soil
who bleed a different red white and blue
tricolor patriotic,
the red of love,
the white of the dove
and the blue of wind
that does not discriminate between sails?

I don't know, I only know
no one has ever won a war.

I only know the big stick has bruised too many eyes
for our fingers to be clean.

I only know we are soft poets
living in the folds
of the playground bully's t-shirt.

Let us sing.
Let us repeat again our message of peace.
Let us whisper
into the giant's ears
that every drop of spit he exhales in hatred
will come back to haunt him in hurricanes.

and our reminders will endure
like the delicate paper
that still flutters intact through new york skies
while the hard steel
that was meant to last for centuries
settles as dust.

--tim mckee

im sad.. and sorry...

# Sep 17 2001 at 5:29 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

A tragic event happend 11/9, 3 planes struck build were thousands of people work, few were lucky to get out alive, i mourn the loss of countless valuable humn lives, i pray for all the victims of horrible act. More shocked am i to discover that american civilians hunts down and kill innocent foreigners in their own country i understand its done from frustration and and the need to do something, but when have people sufferend enough havent enogh innocent lives been taken is that needed, i know its not all of the US that do this some of you are proberly just as shocked about that as i am and people this is not the time to discuss the vietnam war or any other of the conflict the US have had the guts to go into when no one else dared to touch it, no this is the time for unity and the time for the world to stand up and say enough we will not go silently into the wind, this is the day we make a stand again all acts of terrorism and drive horrible acts like this off the face of the planet. May god bless you all brave soldiers going to war....

WTC

# Sep 17 2001 at 11:48 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

It is times like this when everything seems darkest. When all we have known, all we hold dear, has been scattered by the wind. How can we go on? How can we survive? Why did this have to happen? These questions, and countless others echo through my mind.
On Tuesday, September 11th, 2001, our lives were forever changed. In a brief moment, the world seemed turned upside down. Perhaps it was out of hatred of our people and our country, maybe it was to make us change our policies in world politics, maybe it was out of jealousy for all that we have as a nation. Maybe, we will never know.
I watched in horror, as the towers fell. My very soul felt as if it was being torn apart, and I was one of the lucky ones. My father, at his desk when his building was hit, was one of the ones who was able to escape. Reaching safety as the burning towers came crashing down. For that, I am truly thankful. But, in my hour of greatest relief, I cannot help but think of all those who were not as fortunate. The pain that their families must be experiencing cannot be imagined, not even in my most horrific of dreams. I am haunted by the images replayed on television, haunted by the stories of those still searching for their loved ones. It is something that I am sure I will never forget, nor ever truly put behind me.
I watched in the days following this tragedy, the true heroes of our city, of our country. Day and night, countless hours going by, they dug, desperately searching for life, with little or no regard for their own. It is these images that give me hope for our nation. In our darkest hour, there came a glimmer of light, a ray of hope. To those who have attacked my country, you have only brought us closer together. The initial shock and horror you have inflicted on us cannot be measured, but, in time, that will fade. In its place, you will find a resolve like none that you have ever seen. Your choice to attack defenseless civilians will not make us run and hide. Instead, we will stand together and face our enemy.
We will not be intimidated, we will not be made to live in fear. People around the world have often made the same mistake when it comes to my country, and you have traveled down that same road. You have underestimated us. You think that we are weak, we are not. You wanted to teach us a lesson perhaps? All you have taught us is that we must never let you rest. We will hunt you down, no matter what dark hole you crawl in to hide. We have been attacked, and we are hurting. But wounds heal, no matter how many and how deep. And know this…. Tomorrow, the sun again will rise, and we as a country, will still be here. The question I keep asking myself is, how many more sunrises will you see?
God have mercy on you…. For I am certain that the United States of America will not.

Just a post

# Sep 15 2001 at 8:25 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

* This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian
television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant
remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most
generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out
of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars
and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today
paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans
who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit distant
cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into
discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing
about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of
those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a
plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas
10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines
except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on
the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You
talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about
American technocracy, and you find men on the moon, not once, but several
times and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store
window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued
and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they
are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at
home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through
age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania
Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old
caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other
people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced
to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone,
and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked
around.

They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do,
they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over
their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Stand proud, Americans!

A good report I think. Just to ad something else US did tell afganistan that they would hold them responsible before the bombing for what ever Bin laden does.

The Sweetest Revenge

# Sep 14 2001 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591761997403

29 posts

I wish the terrorists bastards that crashed into the WTC had not killed themselves for one reason only.

So they could see how badly they failed.

That would be the best revenge in my eyes. Let them see that we can not be beaten and let that fact haunt them till they die.

But alas, they went and killed themselves for some fool cause that will end up being destroyed one way or another. Now they will burn in the eternal fire of hell.

Let's show the rest of the SoBs that are hiding that the stars and stripes will NEVER fall!!

-Steady

If you have any comments about this, feel free to email me at aftershock0002@hotmail.com

A Patriotic Dwarf Looking For Justice

(Disregard the lvl 36 message, I am now lvl 51)

One

# Sep 13 2001 at 11:25 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

Affirmative may be justified
Take from one give to another
The goal is to be unfified
Take my hand be my brother
The payment silenced the masses
Sanctified by oppression
Unity took a back seat
Sliding further in regression
One
The only way is one
I feel angry I feel helpless
Want to change the world
I feel violent I feel alone
Don't try and change my mind
Society blind by color
Why hold down one to raise another
The world is heading for mutiny
When all we want is unity
We may rise and fall, but in the end
We meet our fate together
One
The only way is one
I feel angry I feel helpless
Want to change the world
I feel violent I feel alone
Don't try and change my mind

-Creed

The Media

# Sep 13 2001 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent

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Anonymous

First and foremost I'd like to announce that I HATE THE PRESS !

Now for the reasons : When this deplorable event occured I was in Health, the full affect of it was not yet felt. I knew that 3 planes had crashed and that the death toll would reach a few thousand. However, the next peroid we watch the horrowshow unfold on Television. After about 10mins. of watching unwearily, I realized the full force of the act. I felt sorrow, and hate, and pain. But as the day wore on, and more people made fun of the event, and procuding false information, I lost focus of the event, buy the time I was comming home, I felt only a percent of the full emotions just 2 periods earlier.

When I got home, I went out with my friends, and I forgot about terrorism, war, hate, and the evils of this world for 5 hours. When I came home I was assaulted by numerous pictures and clips and audio of the tragedy. Slowly, I was being desensitized. Sadly, now I hardly can remember that the event took countless lives, the shivers that once traveled along my spine have stopped.

I guess that the basic moral of this story is that the Media has totally raped my sense of this tragedy. Playing it over, and over, and over and over... I know it isn't all their fault, They were simply informing us. But I fear for my generation and that as we depend more and more on Television to shield us from the raw emotions of any event, yet still give us the information, that we will degrade into a group of souless freaks who hear and see, but do not feel.

Boy, what began as a simple thought has escalated. I'd like to end my story in a classical American Literature type of way, with hope for the future. My goal as of late is to regain my sense of disaster. look beyond the tele and into the lives of the others on the telling end. Perhaps some of you feel similarly barren of emotion. I hope you too can recognize this flaw and fight to fix it...
Don't be a clockwork orange, so full of life potential and flavor, but utterly automatonic.

Although I am not a god-fearing man I do send my blessings and prayers to all affected and Hope to the Middle-east, Their skewed perspective of Jihads and Paradise brings shame to Allah...

P.S. I am a Junior in high school, void of emotions at such a volatile age is a very scary thought.

850 posts and soaring, KEEP IT GOING AND WE WILL NEVER FORGET !!!!!!!

RE: The Media

# Sep 13 2001 at 7:36 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

P.S. Pertaining to the idea of revenge... A notable Japanese polotician was quoted to say " Now they have done it, they have waken the sleepin giant." We hope you don't mind squaring of with the 'Great Satan'(Western civilization in general in the eyes of the Muslims of the Middle-East for those who didn't know that's how they view us) for he is definatly on his feet
!!!

"O say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen thro' the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!"

U.S.A. hoorah!

# Sep 13 2001 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591767542803

6 posts

* This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian
television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant
remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most
generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out
of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars
and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today
paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans
who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit distant
cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into
discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing
about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of
those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a
plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas
10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines
except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on
the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You
talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about
American technocracy, and you find men on the moon, not once, but several
times and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store
window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued
and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they
are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at
home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through
age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania
Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old
caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other
people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced
to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone,
and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked
around.

They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do,
they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over
their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Stand proud, Americans!

A New Chance

# Sep 13 2001 at 12:27 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1595175392175

1 post

Some people have been comparing this incident to Pearl Harbor. I hope we have learned enough from history not to mirror the mistakes that were made in the wake of Pearl Harbor.

Being Japanese-American, I have had relatives that lost their homes, were interned in the camps, or had to flee to escape being interned. My dad never spoke about that time so I have no idea what it was like from his first-hand perspective.

This country, America, still deals with hate crimes based on race, gender, or sexual preference. Even in EQ I hear many hateful and ignorant remarks and hateful comments against homosexuals, Jewish people, African Americans.

I can only hope that the terrorist attacks do not lead to a new wave of internments or senseless violence against people who are as innocent as those that were killed or injured by the horrific acts of two days ago.

This is a new century - a new chance to not repeat the mistakes of the past and find another way to deal with this.

There is a good article on this topic for those that are interested in taking an honest look at America's role and involvement in the Middle East.

This is the address:

http://www.progressive.org/webex/wx091201.html

RE: A New Chance

# Sep 14 2001 at 12:49 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

I know President Bush has come out and denounced any racist acts against any Arabic-Americans and said these acts will not be tolerated.

I agree Nagasaki and Hiroshima were very extreme acts, however the leaders of Japan refused to surrender the war. This gave the U.S. government two choices. Attack Japan by sea or drop the A-Bomb until they surrender. They then had to choose which way would save more American lives.

If there is one thing that Americans do it is learn from their mistakes, of course there will be people who are not as intelligent as others in which this lesson will take much longer to take.

I've learned that skin color does not make the man. It is the way the man thinks that counts.

rescue

# Sep 13 2001 at 12:23 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

The more the better lets just hope the number rescued keeps going up

5 Firefighters Rescued

# Sep 13 2001 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent

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The man who started it all!

1,635 posts

CNN just reported that 5 NY Firefighters have been pulled out of the rubble alive, and apparantly in OK shape. They were trapped for two days inside a SUV covered by tons of debris. Two of them were able to walk away on their own.

Just thought I would add some good news to this thread.

____________________________

[wowsig]1855[/wowsig]

The problem with retaliation

# Sep 13 2001 at 12:14 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

Let me first start by introducing myself. Ingame, I play a monk by the name of Fankyu and a paladin by the name of Verchiel on the Tarew Marr server. I've been playing for quite some time, but as I am a casual player, my characters still have not even broken the 20th level. In real life, my name is Kenneth Pun, a Chinese Canadian in my graduating year for an Honours Bachelor degree in English literature. I'm introducting myself so that you can understand a few things about where I'm coming from. Canada has historically been greatly influenced by American culture, so I can understand the American perspective while at the same time, by living in a different country I can maintain an objective view (or so I hope). My Chinese heritage allows me to have an intriguing balance between western and eastern cultures, therefore I've learned to accept that differing cultures have their reasons for how they came to be. In essense, I'm saying that my background provides what I believe to be a way of looking at this tragedy that only a few may have considered. I'm not saying I'm right, but at the same time, I'd hope that you read what I have to say, and at the very least think about it first.

There has been a great many terms thrown around by the media and echoed by many posts here and other forums that I have read. "Terrorism" being the first, "act of war" another, "retaliation", "justice", and "revenge". There are also a great many parallels made to other historical events, such as the Pearl Harbour incident, and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I want to start out by stating clearly that there is an incredible difference between an act of terrorism and an act of war. The WTC tragedy is an act of terrorism, no one can deny that. But at the same time, it is not an act of war. It is an act that could very well instigate a war, and in many minds it should, but in itself is not an act of war.

An act of war requires that one party officially declaring war over another party. In the case of the Pearl Harbour incident, the Japanese did in fact declare war on America moments before the bombing, making it difficult for the American military to defend against an attack. This was not the case in the WTC tragedy, as no one party has declared war on America. Another part of an act of war is in how the act is carried out. Historically speaking, wars are fought by the military. The targets may not necessarily be military, but those attacking most certainly are. They use military issue weapons, and military designed vehicles. According to reports, the terrorists used only knives and threatened they had a bomb on the plane. No military grade weapons or vehicles were used in this attack.

Based on these two examples, the WTC tragedy cannot be considered an act of war in itself. I must point out however that the tragedy can be used to instigate a war, but that is for the American Congress to decide once those responsible are found, and is something I will deal with later. Having shown why I feel that the tragedy is not an act of war, I therefore believe that comparing the WTC tragedy to events such as Pearl Harbour and Hiroshima and Nagasaki as incorrect. Both the latter two incidents were in fact acts of war, one starting it (as far as the Americans are concerned) and one ending it. A better comparison would be those cut from the same cloth. Unfortunately I don't have any such comparisons available to me at this time, and will require some research.

I have just proposed that the WTC tragedy is not an act of war, and as such will continue by proposing that using war and war-like methods to retaliate would be wrong. Bombing, nuking, declaring war on, and attacking those responsible for the tragedy, while may sound gratifying would put too much at risk and most likely bring about consequences we as a world may not be prepared for. First of all, though some have written and commented to the contrary, there are indeed innocent people to consider. Yes, there were people celebrating the tragedy, but please remember these are people whose only picture of western civilization they have, is one that depicts us as capitalist, interering devils. This narrow view of us comes from a lack of communication on many parts between the two parties and more importantly on forced sense of ignorance certain dictators have put on the people.

To them, the celebration is because they believe a devil has been hurt. No different than if we were to celebrate if Saddam Hussein were to trip over some steps and break his neck. We have our own devils, and they have theirs. Granted it must feel frustrating that someone out there feels that we are devils, but rather than being angry at them for their ignorance, we should try to find ways to circumvent their view of us and change it for the better. As for those that are directly responsible for the WTC tragedy, they should be deal witht as Americans would any other terrorist faction that have been caught before. As I mentioned before, my knowledge of terrorism in history is not very detailed, and once I do the research I could probably make a better proposal of what should be done.

Once again, I do not claim to have the right answer to this tragedy, only that I have a perspective that I would like all of you to think about for a moment. If you disagree with me, I'd be more than happy to take the time to debate the topic with you, so that perhaps we can all get a better understanding of the subject. I feel for those who suffered directly and indirectly from this tragedy, and my heart goes out to all of them. I hope that this incident will come to a conclusion soon, so that we all rest easier around the world.

RE: The problem with retaliation

# Sep 17 2001 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent

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Scholar

301 posts

I can somewhat agree with your point but there are 2 things I have a problem with.

1) "War" in the traditional sense as "2 or more nations fighting with armies" isn't going to happen much in our life time.
2) "War" in the "against drugs" or "against terrorism" is futile for a full army to try and fight. It won't work. There is no center to send your forces against so no objectives to be achieved.

As you know English is very much a living language so words and phrases have more than 1 meaning and will change based upon desire and need of the people who use them.

As an alternative to your point I will offer the following...

It is easy to sit here angry about our having been hurt but any time you de-humanize a people (as has been done with Americans this time), you make it quite acceptable to kill them.

To many in the world we Americans are "Monsters", not people at all but "Monsters". Unlike many others in the past (such as the Japanese, Chinese, Jews, Gypsies, African peoples, etc.), we are very powerful. The same way we might cheer a 'hero' losing his life but succeeding at destroying an enemy gun emplacement during a war, many in the world see those who succeeded at hurting “The Monsters” as heroes.

Enough is enough. No more ‘us’ and ‘them’. No more ‘nameless’ numbers. I want to know who we are going to punish and why. I want to know that we are going after terrorists with an effective, surgical tool versus the bulk ‘military’ response from ancient history. I want to know that if that tool is interfered with, we will back our decision up with whatever we need to make this work. No ‘nuke THEM till THEY glow’ but a signed order from our leaders that states for reasons x, y and z we are killing Mr. Whomever and I want this to be made available for all to see -- inside the USA and outside so EVERYONE knows what is being done up front. None of that "we didn't know" crap from anyone. If we end up destroying 5 to 10 countries because they "impede" our justice then so be it but I want them to have the opportunity to impede us prior to us just bombing the hell out of them. If we lose a few groups of assassins, Then they will at least know that they have our countries backing for what they are doing and that we will react to their loss.

I believe we can and shall retaliate. How we do so is important. I do not believe that we should use bulk military power to do this but that we should make official changes to the structure of our armed forces as well as our laws, policies and practices with respect to foreign relations.

First off, we should rescind the executive order against assassinations.

We need a publicly defined branch of our military that is setup for assassinating criminals against the USA.

This branches charter will be to seek out and kill named individuals anywhere in the world that they may be hiding. The execution order will be prepared by a congressional board and require the presidents signature to be valid. No current or previous US citizen may ever be included on this list. The list of all named individuals will be released to the public and to all world leaders.

Any deaths not sanctioned by the signed order will be reviewed by an internationally appointed tribunal and whatever reparations it determines are appropriate will be paid by our government to those who received the damage (in other words, if we blow up a town to take out 3 guys, someone is going to pay for this. Who decides and how much is paid cannot be in our hands but must come from a third party – not us or the ‘offended’ group).

As an official branch of the military, members are military staff and any actions against them may be considered direct attacks against the USA and, at the government’s discretion, such acts may be considered a declaration of war by whatever power committed these actions, against the USA.

The laws defining treason in our country will be extended to any citizen offering aid or comfort to anyone on the sanctioned kill list AFTER the name has been put on the list. Treason can and will hold the death penalty.

For citizens, full legal protection under the constitution shall be guaranteed. For non-citizens, NO CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS ARE TO BE OFFERED NOR GUARANTEED IN ANY WAY. e.g. hit this list and you can scream foul but it won't help. you are going to die...

The logic here is very simple. It has been proven throughout history that an army cannot defeat guerilla or native forces. They simply dissolves and reappear elsewhere and, the more the army tries to attack them, the more damage they do to the local populace, the more recruits the force will acquire over time. The only effective means of defeating a small-dispersed force is with small hit teams.

This announces to the world that we are putting together an anti-terrorist group and that it will be backed with our full military might. Any nation that interferes with our efforts may become subject to military retaliation by our government.

Not nice. Not pretty. Effective. Send assassins out into the world with picked lists of people to murder and back said assassins with the full will and might of this United States of America.

***** with the bull, you get the horns....

RE: The problem with retaliation

# Sep 17 2001 at 2:27 AM Rating: Decent

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Pearl Harbor was not an "Incident". Thousands of American seamen lost their lives in that act of war. Even more lost their lives in the World Trade Center sneak attack. Notice that I did not candy-*** it up by saying "terrorism" or "Act of War". It was a sneak attack by people who thought that this country was filled with weak, spineless people. They were very, VERY frigging wrong. I plan on enlisting in the United States Marine Corps., like my father, and his father before him. I plan on, and indeed hope, to find one of these yellow, no good, sick people, and enacting a little Marine Corps. justice. How many of you will dance in the street when we roll in with guns blazing, and YOU start watching YOUR friends and family die!?!?!?!?!! I may die if I go, but I'll take a few to their so called paradise with me. Chew on that for awhile.

RE: The problem with retaliation

# Sep 16 2001 at 3:56 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

I believe you to be very naive kennuth pun.

When osama bin ladden announced that they were at war your whole argument before it was created was a waste of time to read.

Missile weapondry can cause less damage than those 2 planes caused in the wtc

or how bout the plane in the pentagon

or what of the plane on the fields of PA?

when you woke up and decided to make an argument did you exspect to live normally?

what if you woke up in the WTC?

War declared or undeclared is of no concequence
Terrorism is an act of War.

Ever heard of guerrilla warfare?

you need to go back to whatever canadian school your going to and wake up man.You are naive and a very lacking politician.

War was declared
now let our enemy suffer the slings and arrows of our nation

in a phrase

CRY HAVOC! and let loose the dogs of War.

RE: The problem with retaliation

# Sep 14 2001 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent

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11 posts

The whole problem with this post is that Osama Bin Ladan, as well as many other terrorists around the world, have indeed declared war on the United States. They have declared this fact many times (research that). Therefor by them slamming 3 jumbo jets into key targets of the United States is indeed an act of war. Let's face it, this is no differant than if they had done the same damage with missles.

I realize that some people do not want war. Do you think we Americans want war? I would have been perfectly happy if none of these things had come about and I was still going through my life like I was on Sept. 10, 2001.

These acts did happen though. These acts did kill thousands of people. These acts are indeed an act of war. These acts will NOT go unpunished.

RE: The problem with retaliation

# Sep 13 2001 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good

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Anonymous

There is no problem with retaliation. There is a problem is with your argument Ken Pun. The statement that they didn't use any wepons of war is a completetly false. The terorist didn't claim the lives of 5000 people with knives! They used 1000's of gallons of plane fuel with 1000's of pounds of aircraft aluminum and the full force of the engines to obtain speeds of 500 plus mph and then crash that into unsuspecting civilians. Burning the flesh off of people, blowing them in to pieces. Collaspsing two 110 storie buildings on them. These things can only be done with wepons of mass dustruction used in WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: The problem with retaliation

# Sep 13 2001 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent

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4 posts

Now that was a good post. I agree with almost every single line in it. I must point out, however, that while it is true that the WTC disaster was an act of terrorism and Pearl Harbour an act of war, examples like Hiroshima/Nagasaki or the bombings of Dresde cannot be considered normal acts of war. They were unnecessary acts of cruelty toward civilians, just like those in NY. I don't care if Dresde was bombed to pressure the **** regime or if the Bomb was the fastest way to bring WWII to an end. The fact is that thousands of human beings died and beautiful cities were blown to pieces.

Terrorism means death. War means death.

RE: The problem with retaliation

# Sep 13 2001 at 12:23 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

Thank you for providing a rational counter-point. But I have to disagree strongly with your statement that this was not an act of war. Terrorism is used by certain countries to influence world politics with minimal risk to the host nation. It's the equivalent to the special forces in the US, or the State Department. They provide funding, training and facilities for them to use. Then they send them off to blow things up to support their political agenda (destruction of Israel, reduces support for the UN, moving troops out of a region, etc).

Some country used these terrorists as a weapon. I don't think they realized how successful they would be, which is why *NOONE* has claimed responsibility. The US is pissed right now, and will end up going to war with the country that hosted them. Not to blow people up, but to eliminate the government that hosted these terrorists. It's about time we focused on taking out those who make these decisions instead of flailing about ineffectually with sanctions. Sorry, but Saddam doesn't care if his people starve. He cares deeply about being ground zero for a Tomahawk.

-G-

Good always prevails over evil

# Sep 13 2001 at 12:12 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

America will get through this tough time as it always has before in history. Many innocent people have been killed barbarically and the pain will never leave us. However I am confident that America and our allies will make sure that whomever is responsible will definitely have done to them what was done to us. These acts will not go unpunished.

Other Countries

# Sep 13 2001 at 11:58 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

I have read posts from people in other countries saying they don't want ther countries to get involved in this, or as one person said, "I don't want to die for a country that can defend itself". WAKE UP. If this had happened to you, your country would look to AMERICA for help. And you know what? You would not have to ask, we would be WILLING to help. Right now we must respond to this attack, not a seperate countries, but as 1. We must not act as spereate peoples, we must strike, and stike hard, as strike as HUMANS. This goes beyond patriotism. We, as a world, as fellow humans, must show ALL terriorist that there acts will not be tollerated.

The world thought America was "untouchable". 1 reporter on the BBC said, "My God, if this can happen to America, WHO IS SAFE?" Right now, NOBODY is safe. For that reason alone, we must show a UNITED defiance to these terriorist and show them, no matter how terrible there attacks are, will NEVER win.

#Anonymous, Posted: Sep 13 2001 at 11:46 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) no disrespect but i have thought this for ages, BUSH SUX!!!

RE: bush

# Sep 14 2001 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent

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13 posts

No disrespect? Listen you cowardly little ******* - W may not be what you want in an American President - but then you're not an American so who gives a **** what you think?

Funny, you mention that you are practicing the freedoms that we have fought for? Typical - most of Europe would be a gulag or concentration camp if not for the United States of America and yet you use rights paid for with American blood to show us disrespect in a time of anguish?

As far as our response - this is a ware now. We must attack not only the perpetrators but also the infrastructure that supports them. Yes, some more innocent civilians will die - about 5,000 already have - but it must be done this way. We must make the consequences of aiding and abetting these villains so terrible that no country will EVER want to do so again. We must pursue them without pity, without pause and without mercy.

Hell shall stir for this… Henry V, Act 5 Sc. i

RE: bush

# Sep 13 2001 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good

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11 posts

Talk trash about America all you want, but WE are the ones who will stop terrorism, WE are the ones who have saved countries time and time again and will continue to do so, WE are the ones that you DO NOT mess with.

Simple fact is the rest of the world is about to witness WHY AMERICA IS THE BEST.

So, just sit back in your little country and watch a REAL country show you what it takes to be GREAT.

RE: bush

# Sep 13 2001 at 11:58 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

Which country?

-G-

bystander

# Sep 13 2001 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

i am british, i was shocked to hear of this.
however it is important to realise that america won't be fighting one crappy rogue nation.

They will be fighting an entire religion (the largest one in the world) this is the (eastern)muslims.

you won't crush them like ants, they are hidding among those who aren't terrorists.

that is similar to viet-nam, who came worst of in nam?

i'd say america, they supported a dictator, they lost many people, they weren't defending 'honour, liberty and justice' [the freedoms and so on] they were stopping the spread of communism in an area where it wasn't spreading and in fact probably made it more likely to appear, they were just people interfiering.

this time they are the target, but should keep kool, in the past century too many people died in war, lets not beat that figure in the new one.

personaly i don't believe the prophecies of the guy mentioned in the previous post, but the guy is right, this could turn out with a mess.

the guys who did this were brought up with nothing. they are only human and they need an excuse for their poverty and suffeing. they claim capitalism made them poor (prehaps it did) the only sinners are the leaders who make them do such disgusting acts such as the twin tower suicide.

RE: bystander

# Sep 17 2001 at 2:40 AM Rating: Decent

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I say bring it the **** on. The Viet-Nam war didn't start because the Viet-Cong blew up an American city. If it had, Viet-Nam would still be a smoking crater with the words "Don't tread on me" spelled out in lots of smaller craters. You could probably see it from space. Don't try to rationalize what they did. Rationalising is for human beings. These freaks are less than animals.

RE: bystander

# Sep 13 2001 at 12:03 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

We aren't fighting any religion. In fact, I believe 99.9% of the muslims out there are pretty much behind the US in this one.

We've learned a lot since Vietnam. Case in point: Iraq, Kosovo. Bomb them from the air until they surrender to unmanned drones. Take out their infrastructure, C&C (yes, Saddam Hussein wasn't targeted by name, but we did target the head of their military... hmm, who would that be...) and other high-value targets.

I can't believe you said they need an excuse for their action. Sorry; ramming jetliners into buildings is unexcusable. I don't care how friggin poor you are.

-G-

WW3? I hope not

# Sep 13 2001 at 11:27 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

I myself am shocked on the goings on, however, I feel if america/NATO declares war (or has declared war, everything is really unclear and there are contradictory reports) on whoever did this/ harboured the terrorists we could have a massed war on our hands. between eastern muslims and capitalists. I believe many of you have heard of the seer from 500 years ago called nostaramus. for those who don't you may be shocked at what u find, accurate prophecies of napolean, hitler (who he refered to as hisler), the previous two world wars, the gulf war and many other things also predicted:
There is one thing which is scarily similar to the twin tower incident, however i do not have the material on me as it was stolen (yep, some sad git stole a book) but here is vaugly how it goes once decoded
"nine months in to the first year of a new century (2001 first year of new centry, 9th month is september) God's new city will be attacked (new york) there will be thunder (people say the plane sounded like thunder) and the lord of terror in the skys (the planes).
buildings will burn at near 45 degrees (new york is between 41 and 45 degrees north of the equator) and the two brothers (the twin towers) will be destroyed." it carries on like so but is frightenly scary for people who believe him

in another one he mentions:
"the coming of the anti-christ (christ being a messiah or saviour of souls, therefore antichrist being taker) for 3years (WW1), 7years (WW2 and the 2 years fighting between america and jappan dn combating other countries still fighting) and twenty years (a forthcoming war)"

and again he mentions a war between muslems and the west or something similar (the suicide piolets are believed to be muslem)

if you don't believe this, which i am not sure of (better keep tag on the next 20 or so years and i will be convinced !) there is still evidence that at least a large war could be in order. Firstly if america declares war, then its military allies (NATO) will have to [i being a GB citizen don't want to die for a country which can defend itself fully, although i would goto NY to save people if i was in the emergency services (the local ones are goin by boat there!) lets hope they don't do conscription]

finally whoever did this attrocity is clearly cunning and uses its resources well i believe no military force has killed so many people and dropped a currency value and made every one **** scared using only 4 aircraft before.

A matter of power and drugs

# Sep 13 2001 at 11:25 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

First of all, let me explain what's is been happening with Afganistan during the second world war II. After the defeate of Hitler regime, we all thought that it would be a real time of peace but in fact was not. The begin of the so called cold war was clearing appering in our world creating a duality between communism and capitalism logics. As the time pass, and the communism was slowly falling down (which means in the 80's) the americans were ironically supplying tons of weapons of all sort. The economy of Afganistan was riped appart because the communism system was no-longer working creating at the same time the explosion of what was called the URSSR. The economy of Afganistan was and still very poor, because the weapons trafic as basically created a huge group of mercenaries in the country. Well guess what? Yeah, you are right, many of those mercenaries can be easilly hired cause it's the only was of life many people have known.

From now on, imagine a group of extreme phanatism. Imagine that those young boys are from their very young age trained and self-contained in a sort of religion where it appears that it's the only way of life possible. The mixture of military and phanatism can create one of the most dangerous mixture possible.

Now, most of you, I've readed couple post think it's just a matter of "attacking the oppressor" or "they don't like our international policies" and you are right, but only partially. Now take a step backward and think about that billionaire guy. Where do think he's getting is money from? Well I'll tell you, he's rellying of "puppies" and drugs selling to maintain his fortune. Oussama Ben Laden was originated from Arabia, where he grown in a sort of rich familly. In his early age, he meeted some extremist where he started to follow them out. At the same time, his fortune was already serving the duty of the extremist activities.

Now, I could discuss on what is Oussamar Ben Laden's real intention, I won't, but between you and me, would you find it attractive to control an empire of many billions? Thus if I make the link between my previous statement which were the of endoctrinement of the countries sourrounding Afganistan and the market of drug, you'll notice that in fact, the religion is only used to serve the name of power and money.

Moreover, if you know a little of muslims, you would know that the hidjah is in fact a religious war. BUT, this logic is in fact brought to an extreme where in fact it's no longer in the name of god. I was told by some of my muslim friends that you are not supposed to concienciously drive yourself to death if you do that. I beleive the hidjah is supposed to protect the religion, but in fact was the religion really threaten?

Anyway, as a conclusion, I'd just like to say that i fact it's more a matter of money and power which is involve here then anything else. For sure though, that sort of act of vengence is also included since I think it's a way at the same time to express their anger on the US supremacy. I don't approve the way it was expressed though, I was i fact crying when I saw that on the tv.

I hope I helped you guys understand more about what happened 2 days ago.

Dwizz

E.G. To the first guy that post something about his whole familly death, I really appologise man. It's ok to feel anger, but think about the way you should express it, it could be more devestating for you then constructive.

Where one falls....

# Sep 13 2001 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent

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7 posts

...another will take its place.

I'm referring about the terrorist organizations, unfortunatly. Whilst everyone is mad, outraged, and ready to blow whoever is responsible to Timbuktoo, stop and think for a moment.

We will do what is necessary, and called for by the people. This particular terrorist group will cease to exist. And like a hydra 3 more will spring from its place...

I fear we have only seen the beginning...

Bankhul Axehand

.

# Sep 13 2001 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent

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Anonymous

from the Miami Herald:

We'll go forward from this moment
It's my job to have something to say.
They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering.

You monster. You beast. You unspeakable *******.

What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you failed.

Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.

Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.

Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.

Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God.

Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by *********

IN PAIN

Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before.

But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice.

I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future.

In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined.

THE STEEL IN US

You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold.

As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish.

So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started.

But you're about to learn.

___________________________________

And in the words of Tom Brokaw after a politician stated we would bring these people to justice...."Americans dont want to bring
these people to justice...we want to send
them to hell."

RE: .

# Sep 13 2001 at 1:27 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

I would like to know who wrote this. I read this and, like the person before, I got the shivs. This sums up my entire attitude towards the cowardly act that took place Tuesday. As a country we are only 225 years old, the yougest by far. Since our conception, other countries have felt compelled to pick on us. They tried to bully us around. We have always fought back with just enough effort to send them running and then we left them to lick their wounds, with one exception. November 7 1941, the Japanese wounded this country in a way it will never forget. They demolished pearl Harbor killing between 2500 and 3000 of our people, Servicemen and civilians alike. That was a small push over the line for us. In response, we leveled 2 of their cities with Fat Man and Little Boy (?). What i would like to know is: What on any God's green Earth made these terrorists think, for one nanosecond, that we would not retaliate when they perform multiple atrocities of a larger magnitude, killing anywhere up to 55,000 of our innocent civilians who were going about their daily lives? Do they think we're going to jjust shoot off a couple of guns until they run away like we did in Desert Storm (yes, I know it was a little more than that)? I admit that we should not nuke them. Nuclear weapons have essentially become useless today. Everyone has them so no one will use them. One country launches, everyone launches, no one wins. And as far as people saying that we would be just as barbaric if we went to war with the country who is harboring the terrorists, think of this. EXAMPLE: We have been chasing BinLaden for 8 years, and Afghanastan(sp?) has tols us that if we try to get him they will attack us (in much the same way we were just attacked), and they will not givee him up. If we find out Bin Laden IS responsible, and Afghanastan does not give him up, we will give them a choice- Give him to us or we will declare warr and take him. They choice to go to war WILL NOT be ours to make, it will be the choice ofd the country harboring these (I want to call them animals but I don't know if it is too good for them) "things". America is in the habit of protecting Human rights, which is as it should be. But our protection stops when people like these stop being human. /rant off

I am ranting and venting, I know. But this is the first time I've said anything to anybody about this so you all are getting my raw emotion here.

/rant on
The bottom line is, they have drawn a line in the sand, and they have used a wreckingball to knock us clear across that line. It is time for us to find our target, and to completely annihalate, obliterate, destroy, and humiliate said target. Terrorism IS a hydra, but we won't have a problem if we destroy it at it's body. Terrorism is based on one thing, terror. We need to start putting the terror in terrorists.

These are the rantings of a person who has had enough of other countries walking all over us when we do nothing but try to help EVERYONE be free. These are not the opinions of the entire country (although they should be), if you do not agree with me, flame away.
/rant off

RE: .

# Sep 13 2001 at 11:33 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

I actually shivered when reading this. The sleeping giant is awake.

DING DING

# Sep 13 2001 at 11:00 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

Hello fellow Americans,
I thought i would give all of you my thoughts on this situation. It is a discrace to this nation that people talk about destroying all muslim nations just for the actions of a few. We should certainly find out who is directly responsible before taking any extreme action. When we do find out who is responsible I will be the first to enlist in the armed forces to rid this planet of their very existense. Remember people, the first punch was thrown long ago. We have been merely dancing around the ring for the past couple of decades. We have taken our share of blows. Now the gloves are off. Look out, we're coming out swinging!
"Lets get it on!"

Just my thoughts

# Sep 13 2001 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1593965758116

10 posts

I have read a few of the posts here, and I just wanted to share some of my thoughts and feelings.

There is alot of anger in these posts. That I understand. I too feel the anger. But, as President Bush stated, this is an act of war. Before we act, we must seek out, and find, without a doubt, those responsible. Stop for a second, and think, if you where in a Middle East country, and in fact had no involvment in this. You see American planes start to attack. In there eyes, we WOULD be the "monsters" they think we are. WE must RISE above there level. We must not act out of emotion, but FACT. These people, or even countries, MUST and WILL be punished. But, not today.

Today, we must focus on NYC and Washington. We need to find our fallen. We need to comfort eachother. We need to stop our petty conficts with eachother over nonsense. We must stop killing ourselfs. We must unite. We must be strong. We must mourn. We need to find our fallen and missing Hero's. The men and women that not only risked there lives, but in hundreds of cases, gave there lives to help strangers. These people are true HERO'S. These people embody what AMERICA is about.

We will find, and punish ALL parties involved in this. But first, we must join together, and heal. We must become one. If not, then they win.

This is not a time for threats. This is a time to help our fellow AMERICAN'S. Do what you can. Give blood. Donate money. Donate Food, or water, or time, or just a thought and a prayer.

AMERICA will survive. WE will survive. We will overcome. We will NOT live in terror.

To the hundreds of Doctors, Firefighters, Police Officers, and Goverment Employee's working on finding all of our missing friends and family, and those looking to solve this crime, I for one, thank you.

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