A Word on Abusing Exploits

This is from Square-Enix: We have confirmed an issue wherein it was possible for players to acquire gil freely from within FINAL FANTASY XI. This issue has already been addressed by our technical staff. Players found to be exploiting this method will be dealt an appropriate punishment, which may include PlayOnline account cancellation. Though you may be curious, please remember that exploiting flaws in the game is not something we can tolerate. We develop our software carefully so that such issues do not occur. However, should you come across an aspect of the game that may be not working as intended, please contact a Gamemaster or use the appropriate mail form to notify us. It would help us tremendously if you can describe the situation and the steps you took in discovering any such flaws. However, it is not necessary to report the names of any players you suspect to be abusing any of the above mentioned issues for their benefit. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

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Dodging Bullets
# Oct 05 2004 at 1:38 AM Rating: Decent
I know I'm going to get a backlash here, but I want to just try looking at things from a bit of a different perspective. I'm writing this in the assumption that it is the buying/and re-selling "bug".

I'm not sure if it's right for SE to actually punish a player of "exploiting" a glitch that shouldn't even have been there in the first place. It's SE's fault that the numbers were wrong. Some peeps found a KILLER DEAL, and saw it as an opportunity to make something of it. If they found this glitch realising that some people have been exploiting it, at that point, they should have just fixed the glitch quietly and be done with it. They basically punished these people in the same way they would punish people who harrass others. This is their world they created, so obviously we (much like cattle lol) are playing within it's boundaries. This part of the boundary just happened to be a little out of line. It happens. In RL, if you find a $500 bill sitting on the ground, with no one else there to claim it, would you take it? Isn't that in some way "exploiting the system"?

If there's anything (aside from bots) that I think IS cheating, it's the use of mules. They are also used to, in the end, make money. Each mule is a different person, with their own unique name... in RL this means that you think you're 4 different people! You get thrown in a nice cozy white room for that!

Bots, on the other hand, is NOT part of the game and I support SE's endeavor of ridding their game of them (though that'll never happen).

Sorry that my very first post here had to be this, but I felt I had to say something.
IGE
# Oct 02 2004 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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141 posts
Alright, I realize that taking down IGE, a HUGE player in all of this, would be extremely beneficial to everyone (except IGE of course >:) ). However, if you check out their site, it really wouldnt be that easy. Maybe taking down the FFXI bit would work for a little while, but they sell across way more than just FFXI. These people are PROFESSIONALS, they would find a way.
Stroper chyme campers on your server?
# Oct 01 2004 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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3,777 posts
Ok perhaps this is a little out of place, but I want to get a general idea of if its true. I play on the Unicorn server and there is a group of players that camps the Stroper Chyme in Ordellees Caves 24/7 . Every time I do /sea Ordelles they are there. I have come online after a new patch and only 324 people were on the entire server once and, yup you guessed it, there they were in ordelles the moment I came online all 5 of em. It is obviously a Gil selling company because Stroper Chyme spawns every 13-18 minutes and the drop is worth 400K. In fact I have checked various server forumns on here and one post says that one of the people camping the chyme admitted to being a gil seller.

Now I realise that it would take a big investigation for SE to prove they were gil sellers because as it would be they would have to have lots of proof to take action. BUT there IS one way I think the problem could be greatly alleviated and that is to NERF the Stroper Chyme's SPAWN RATE. I mean, come on....a 13-18 minute spawn and drops a 400K item??? I understand the drop rates are horrible so because of the nerf in rate of spawn I believe they should increase the drop rate. It's true that archer/sniper/sniper +1 rings are a very necessary part of higher end combat so I would suggest making the same amount of rings drop on average but take that much longer between spawns. It would cripple the economy and players if the supply decreased, but not if the chyme was adjusted such that the supply remained the same but the rate of spawns was nerfed. And then if someone claims the mob from the gil sellers and gets the drop.....that much more pain in their side. This would make the average player get a better chance of getting their own archers ring and also discourage the Gil sellers because each spawn they miss is that much more important to them.

I know I alone cannot make this happen but if everyone sends input WE as the community CAN. I have already send a suggestion to the people of SE through the POL suggestion forumn suggesting this. If you agree with me then please do so as well. Lets send the gil sellers a message from the entire FFXI community that says --YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE---. It's OUR game. WE pay to play it. We don't want YOU here ******** up our economy and fun. GO AWAY GIL SELLERS >.<

PS: I will not post this on every server forumn because I believe that would make me a spammer. If you have this problem on your server and want to spread the news send a link to this post on your respective page. Thank you all for listening ^^
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RE: Stroper chyme campers on your server?
# Oct 04 2004 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
38 posts
The chyme is one of the few highly sought mobs I'd vote to keep as-is. Just because it's good practice. The bots will get the ones nobody else happens to be after, and the pros will take them away from less able campers, but with the high spawn rate (that's 2 every 12 minutes, if you're a good runner or have a friend), you'll learn to get them eventually.

Not that you ever get the drop... 30 kills I was there for, and maybe another 30 I wasn't there for, and neither myself nor my camping partners have ever seen the ring, even with TH2 present. Still, having the most shots on goal usually wins the game, right?

Also, since it's a crafting material, slapping an Ex on it would ensure the price of sniper rings skyrockets and the availability plummets.

Anyway, like it was said... these guys will find a way to make money in-game. They're pros, and as long as its making a buck they'll do it. Making it impossible for them to profit likewise makes it impossible for us as normal players to prosper.

Probably the only way to get gil dealers out of the game is legal action - use the unlicensed sale of intellectual property thing, maybe get Sony and SE and whoever else is in the biz to go class-action on their asses. It really does foul the game. There are things you can't get and places you can't camp because of the pro campers and farmers, so you end up buying gil from the guys who make it difficult in the first place? That's extortion.
RE: Stroper chyme campers on your server?
# Oct 04 2004 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
40 posts
If you decrease spawns and increase drop rate, the number of rings dropped will remain the same, correct? It doesn't matter how often it spawns they will get it *every* time... so they will get *every* drop. If drop rate doesn't change, nothing has been accomplished.

There are several ways these gil sellers make money on top of this. Low Jeuno on Lakshmi is a *wash* of shout spam... people offering teleports, casinos, etc.

I believe SE has a clause in the EULA that says they can suspend or revoke your account for any reason they choose. SE should probably start taking advantage of that clause and doing their own investigations as to who's a gil seller and who's not. Perhaps they shoud suspend the ones who they believe are gilsellers until they can provide evidence otherwise.

It's wierd that SE has this anti-bot policy but you can call a GM 50x and report that the char named 'Moatcarpbot' who's fishing out of windurst waters 24/7 is actually a bot, and they won't do anything about it.
RE: Stroper chyme campers on your server?
# Oct 01 2004 at 11:02 PM Rating: Decent
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1,638 posts
I don't think making the drop chance higher and decreasing the pop time will make much of a difference. In case you did not notice, they have many ways of getting gils. Camping NM is one way, they think they can compete with other NM campers so they do it. Let's say SE changes things just like you said, then the price won't change and the chance of obtaining the rings in 1 day will still be the same then you will still see them there, competing with other NM campers.

They can also farm like any other normal player and still make a decent profit. As long as the price of every 100k gil is over $4 and if they can get 10~20k gil per 1hr then I know they won't stop doing it. I have seen them killing in Davoi, Buburimu and qufim + towers. Those places don't have any great NM for lv 50ish but do provide a great gil income from selling loot to NPC or AH.
bah
# Oct 01 2004 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
Well bout time...i mean fishing bots are ok to a point...then again there not. I believe that everyone should have the same oppertunity on the game not have to "auto farm". It pisses me off on caitsith, every single time i go to ordells to try to hunt the stroper its clamed before it even spawns....very annoying indeed....but on the brighter side with the new cop areas i have the oppertunity to make bank, and with little problem. Ep gobbies in Oldton Megalopolis are good for me to steal mythral beastcoins =P. Still staying on subject i believe these ppl should be banned for good. No player, sever, nothing everything should be gone
Bots
# Oct 01 2004 at 3:05 PM Rating: Decent
LOL theres only 1 way of banning these bots for good ... banning the whole account . I mean preventing the gamer from using the game since he has a fixed registration code they can just ban him/her according to that and not by suspending individual characters. That way they'll be out for good ; ;

Into ig7ab d(^*^)b


Edited, Fri Oct 1 16:10:45 2004
Rare/Ex
# Oct 01 2004 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
38 posts
Just put Ex on some of the big name items.

Some would say "well then I have to wait in line all day and beat everyone to it!". Wait for who? Only people who want the item will camp it. And once they've got it, they'll never come back.

Besides, what takes longer - making 200-300k gil or trying to nab Leaping Lizzy or the VE from the 2 other people there who actually want the drop? I know very few people can make money faster. But you know what? If you suck at a game you suck at a game, and that's that. If you're great at one part but not another, that's that. Try bribing one of the campers to party up with you and let you have the drop if that's your thing. Note that this will exclude bots from the process. How's a bot going to make that transaction? Instead, you have a real transaction between real players. And there's no shame in hiring somebody (I'd consider it myself - I'm not too good at NM camping).

Also, consider this: how many people running around S. Gustaberg happen to have a couple hundred thousand gil on them right then and there? If the camper-for-hire can't get a sponsor, he might as well leave. He either already has the boots or he doesn't want them. So this is a service you'd have to advertise outside of the camping spot, and you'd have to have 2 people who are both willing to wait around together for perhaps hours.

If that's not messy enough, the paying customer won't trust a camper who goes bot after the deal has been set, and at least one of them has to be around to pass/lot on the boots. And who's going to go AFK? Is the customer going to fork over that much money, then go AFK and assume the camper will get the drop and pass on it? Is the camper going to pass on the item and assume the customer will come back from AFK with the cash after he's already got the item in his inventory? Are they going to try to sync this up? If the AFK customer doesn't get back in time, then the camper might get the drop. If you thought it couldn't get any worse - imagine the camper-for-hire already has that item, so now the customer can get free Leaping Boots by just waiting it out, thanks to FFXI's upgraded auto-distribute system. So the camper, unless he has some great reason to trust the customer, is taking a risk by even having the item in the first place.

Either way, you essentially have to have 2 people who trust each other hanging out for several hours - this almost totally rules out camping these items for gil. Suddenly, the entire cheating system is in upheaval. And how is a guy who only speaks Chinese going to work out all of these kinks!

The only things that really drive the economy are materials and other practical gear. They need to do some sort of market analysis. The gil moved between players for logs, ore, arrows, ninja tools, regular ol' swords and axes, scrolls, food, etc. far outweighs big name NM drops.

Even without leaping boots and the emeperor pin, you'd still have Ustsusemi: Ni, Lightning Spirit Pact, Erase, Phalanx, various race-specific belts, and other items that take real playing ability and dedication to get. Because of the effort and skill needed to acquire these, they'd remain big money AH items. Because anyone has the opportunity to try to get these without being beaten to it, there's no complaining about bots, cheaters, etc. Plus, you still have elemental staves, scorpion harnesses and the like created by high level crafters. All items that people need dedication and skill to get.

I've made and spent millions, and the only NM drop I ever got was the Neckchopper. Only 40k, and a total accident to begin with. I have purchased some of the big NM drops, sure. But I'd totally understand if I had to go and get them myself. Same thing with papyrus, coffer keys, etc. We should all be used to this concept.

Would this not fix the whole deal? The only complain anyone could have is that they planned on buying the item. Those folks are going to hate getting their AF (more than normal people hate it).

(Edit: I know this is off the topic of the dupe exploit, but most of this thread is too. Bugs can be fixed, behavior is hard to monitor.)

Edited, Fri Oct 1 10:16:08 2004
RE: Rare/Ex
# Oct 01 2004 at 6:34 PM Rating: Decent
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1,534 posts
mm economy would go on a roller coaster ride if lizzy boots and stuff were EX lol.. and..takes away another money making oppurtunity. -.-
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[ffxivsig]346334[/ffxivsig]
Mecorx - Ifrit 75WAR/75WHM [Retired]
Mecorx - Odin 99WAR/99WHM/99DNC [Retired]
RE: Rare/Ex
# Oct 04 2004 at 9:45 AM Rating: Default
Those big time items don't run the economy. They don't sell all that often, and most of the ones on sale are in circulation already, not fresh drops (it's not like a pair of leaping boots drops once every 2 hours).

The roller coaster you're talking about wouldn't even amount to a speedbump.
RE: Rare/Ex
# Oct 04 2004 at 9:43 AM Rating: Default
Yeah, and not letting you hit a big red button that instantly kills every mob in sight with Chain 5 experience bonuses takes away a huge levelling opportunity.

Maybe that analogy is a little extreme, but same idea. I know people who make a killing camping the hairpin or the boots, and they'd be upset. But trade the grief of these 2 or 3 people for the happiness of hundreds who don't stand a change of scoring those items because they can't make the money and can't compete with the bots and IGE people.

In the end, it's a mediocre way to make money anyway. The reason the cheaters and gil salesman don't use better means is because they can't be botted and take too much focus and thought.
RE: Rare/Ex
# Oct 01 2004 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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1,638 posts
There are some really valueable items that's rare/ex but you can't get it unless you are much higher level than the required level. Let's say Neck chopper were rare/ex, how many 1st time warrior out there can have this? Or maybe he has a lv 30blm/whm but you know you can't beat the Panzer with a lv 30 job. It will make things much more difficult for people who don't have a high level job.

Later on there are rare/ex item that you can never get them at thier level unless you leech (yeah, leech) it from someone else who is generously enough to give it to you.

Rare/ex on very valuable items are already in the game but I think they are just options for those who can get them with a high level job.
RE: Rare/Ex
# Oct 04 2004 at 9:53 AM Rating: Default
38 posts
That's true, if a Neckchopper was rare/ex, a newbie level 20 warrior isn't going to get one.

Nor is a newbie level 20 warrior going to have the cash to buy one.

So all of these items are for people levelling other jobs anyway. Nobody gets them on the first run through, the second they're wearable, without high level help or IGE-purchased gil.

Kinda makes you wonder how SE intended these items to fit into the world. There a many, many such items you won't get while they're still relevent. And then there's those like the hornet needle I salivate over but won't have until it's pointless to have one, since it is Rare/Ex and drops off something quite hard.

At least Lizzy and the VE aren't that rough.
What can we do
# Oct 01 2004 at 1:09 AM Rating: Decent
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1,638 posts
I really wonder how can you catch a guy who's getting gil legally (ie. chinese guy behind a computer farming gil all) and sell it (illegal)?

I don't think it's illegal in any way in claiming an NM or camping for it all day just to sell the item for gil. It's also not illegal to jack up the price of any item in FFXI AH system. What's illegal is selling/buying gil, but how are you going to catch such activity? How can you catch a violation of EoUA outside of the game where SE is totally helpless in killing these 'gil selling' sites?

Legal stuff here means the EoUA, I not talking about illegal trade using foriegn currencies (USD count as foriegn currency to China) over the internet and not paying any kind of tax over it.

Edited, Fri Oct 1 02:10:41 2004
bots-grrr
# Oct 01 2004 at 12:52 AM Rating: Default
I saw a party of bots level in Crawlers Nest.
After a few days i happened to find them ALL in Ordelle. =o\ I totally support SE. I could notice the "Auction spam" of the same bot selling all the "Archer's Ring"s...
Not funny to me.

(lol Dudemanguy, it's not the worst game, dewd!)
"Oblivion" RULES!!!!
^_^
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DRK 45/WAR 31/THF 15/WHM 13/BLM 6/BRD 5
Vhun: RDM 20/ BLM 10 (Tarutaru!!!)

Edited, Fri Oct 1 01:59:00 2004
#REDACTED, Posted: Sep 30 2004 at 11:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Just to add a little humor to this otherwise controversial situation, I exploit the airship glitch many times on a daily basis, I'm not going to jail am I?
RE: exploit boogyman
# Sep 30 2004 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent
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1,534 posts
-.- lol.. tats totally harmless. just kinda.. funny ^^i like watching ppl fall off airships! quite entertaining but i wish ps2 playerscud do it too

Also ppl falling thru the wood in kazham lol

Edited, Fri Oct 1 00:56:41 2004
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[ffxivsig]346334[/ffxivsig]
Mecorx - Ifrit 75WAR/75WHM [Retired]
Mecorx - Odin 99WAR/99WHM/99DNC [Retired]
Making money.
# Sep 30 2004 at 7:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Well, strangely, it makes me feel a little less angry knowing that my mob was probably stolen by a starving chinese person rather than some 14 year old "hacker"...
RE: Making money.
# Sep 30 2004 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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1,534 posts
ohh starving chinese person? u mean greedy chinese person! They too lazy to find a job so they sit infront of computer monitors all day and play ffxi and make money for some big organization like IGE and whoa.. how did my rating get to 4.49 o.o impressive! (points down at my other post) I know over a dozen of these people on my server (well only.. about,.. 4 they jsut have several accounts) should i report them is the question.
____________________________
[ffxivsig]346334[/ffxivsig]
Mecorx - Ifrit 75WAR/75WHM [Retired]
Mecorx - Odin 99WAR/99WHM/99DNC [Retired]
anyone ever see this?
# Sep 30 2004 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
Hey, has anyone ever seen someone defeat an NM and then just vanish like they purposely disconnected so they could dupe the item? I'm curious.

Also, my 2 gil say that cheaters have bad karma and will eventually get what's coming to them. They'll try to do stuff like this IRL and end up in the pen... i hope
Rant
# Sep 30 2004 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
43 posts
I just wanted to add my two-gil to this. I heard about the item duplication and I must say that it is good SE is taking action on it. Techinaclly in my books there is nothing wrong with doing such a thing because it was a mistake made by SE and if you can take advantage of something by all means go for it. Just get your soul ready for a feeling of guilt and a rep below those of gil farmers and NM bots. I really think that someone who finds out and exploits this kind of stuff is merely a businessman who sees a chance for huge profit. People may not like you (like many people do not like huge corporations) but they were the ones who had the savue to go and exploit something for their own personal gain. Doesn't make it right, but kudos the businessman spirit in these sick people.

I find that there are two types of bots. The ones that hurt players directly and the type that really do not hurt anyone. Let me explain. There are the farming, NM hunting, mining etc bots that hurt other non-bot players directly by stealing mobs, NM and mining points etc. The bots that do not hurt people are the fishing bots (only one that comes to mind). They do not steal anyones fish and even without fishing bots the price of the fish would remain the same. Therefore, not all bots would hurt people. I also wanted to comment on what SE did to fishing in Rabao. I used Rabao as a source of income through moat carp fishing. I did not bot and now with fishing gimped there it is no longer possible to make good money. I like that SE tries to fix problems, but really to a bot who is on 24/7, 7 days a week does a gimped fishing rate really hurt, to some extent yes but mostly no. To a legit fisher who invested a ton of gil to be able to fish out moat carp as a source of income, well basically its a waste of my time now.

I am not defending bots but I am pointing out how SE tackled the wrong type of bot. Now legit fishers such as myself are screwed and I might as well throw out all my fishing stuff.
RE: Rant
# Sep 30 2004 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
Well there's one point about fishing bots not being bad I'd like to counter. It's that these bots increase the amount of gil in the economy artificially and do hurt the other players, just not directly
Hmmm
# Sep 30 2004 at 1:28 AM Rating: Decent
21 posts
I know of a guy that camps Ooze day in day out. Every time I'm on, he's there getting those Earrings. My best guess is that he sells the gil, what else would you do with millions upon millions of gil??
RE: Hmmm
# Sep 30 2004 at 11:10 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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1,534 posts
one word... YEP
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[ffxivsig]346334[/ffxivsig]
Mecorx - Ifrit 75WAR/75WHM [Retired]
Mecorx - Odin 99WAR/99WHM/99DNC [Retired]
number people
# Sep 30 2004 at 12:05 AM Rating: Default
lol I've seen those number people. They are usally camping the Stroper Chyme. I know someone who always beats them. Its just funny to to see them.
#REDACTED, Posted: Sep 30 2004 at 12:02 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I personally don't think botting is bad. I have a friend who bots, but before he ever botted he went from 1-70 fishing. He got tired and strted to bot. All the fish he gets he sells to the NPC. He also got his Lu Shangs by himself. When I found out he botted i got angry because I could not bot.I think everyone mad with botting are people who can't bot. Now he is rich as hell. He only bots at night, less people bothering him. SE also has made it harder to bot if you are not a high lvl fisherman. You catch monsters now in most areas and the areas you can bot you have to be high lvl and have a Lu Shangs. SE also has made it harder to get Lu Shangs because of the low moat carp catch rate. Botting only helps high lvl fisherman. I hate when people complain about people botting and SE not doing anything about it. LOOK AT THE UPDATE!!!!! Harder to bot.
RE: Botting that bad?
# Sep 30 2004 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
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1,534 posts
The whole point for the LuShang quest is to obtain sumthing really good with hard work, not cheap bot programs! Bots ruin the game! There ARE actually people that worked their butts off to get a lu shang rod and that is how its suposed to work.
____________________________
[ffxivsig]346334[/ffxivsig]
Mecorx - Ifrit 75WAR/75WHM [Retired]
Mecorx - Odin 99WAR/99WHM/99DNC [Retired]
RE: Botting that bad?
# Sep 30 2004 at 2:44 PM Rating: Default
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1,445 posts
If you use a bot, your a ***king moron. Your a cheap greedy little **cking kid who should go **cking shoot themselves.

I believe most ppl have to choice to bot but one problem with that, they are too **cking mature to be a **cking greedy little **ck.

To all you botters. Go please **cking kill yourselves
RE: Botting that bad?
# Sep 30 2004 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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350 posts
While i applaude your friend for reaching such a high fishing skill lvl himself, I think it's still wrong to bot. By botting, he is no longer earning his own keep, and is also breaking the agreement he made with SE to play the game by their rules. If the game has lost so much appeal that he no longer wants to put in the time and effort to do something himself, maybe it's time to take a break or quit the game.

On a side note, props to SE for nerf'ing rusty caps! Anybody notice that many of the fish bots around the oasis in Rabao went *poof!* after the last big update?
RE: Botting that bad?
# Sep 30 2004 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
Booo to your friend for botting. For one its against the policy so its bad period. Just cause your friend gets away with it now and just because he worked to get high level doesnt give them a right to bot. Hopefully your friend gets whats coming to them.
RE: Botting that bad?
# Sep 30 2004 at 1:31 AM Rating: Default
Wanna know why botting is bad? Because it makes the game unfair for those that can't bot. And because it ruins the game by utterly destroying the economy. Why do you this Everquest's economy is so bad? and yes, MMORPGs DO have economies.

Edited, Thu Sep 30 02:31:56 2004
Congratulations on catching cheaters!
# Sep 29 2004 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
Now on to the 'Number' players on Fairy or other such gil-farmers that I need not describe for people to know EXACTLY who I am talking about. ^^
the whole issue
# Sep 29 2004 at 10:05 PM Rating: Excellent
Hey this is my first post and i try not to bust balls. but i find what makes this game worth playing is not nessisarly the game itself with all the quests, missions and lvling. even though they are fun none the less and far as the inflation and the whole bot farming and everyting else in this game that isn't fair. thier are still people out there getting it done w/o help. w/o selling what they make for real loot. and still sport the top goods. it just takes work. And it takes an effort given. when people drop prices u just got to think, ok these **** really working me, now i beat them and still get mine. But what makes this game truly fun to play, more then anything else, is the people u play with. the ones who stand by u and help u no matter what. When u got that, no matter what. every time u log on, you going to have fun period. i know this sounds corny and stupid, but hey. it's what i beleve. peace and take care.
RE: the whole issue
# Sep 30 2004 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
Amen Brother. This game has a lot of really cool people in it and a lot of schmucks, just like IRL.
Wow
# Sep 29 2004 at 9:30 PM Rating: Decent
I guess the only way they found out about this must have been through one of SE's "people" who experienced one of the disconect co-inkie-dinks. That or a lot of people reported this incident. Well it seems great and everyone is so curious now and just wants to find out more and how and if there are other ways. This sux. Its so hard to make gil yet some people have sooo much. People think they are rich when their strappin 500k, but to hear people were duplicating theyre Peacock Charms and the like!!?!?! Bastages! I can't say I would have had it in me to do it, but I applaud any of those who may have reported such events to GM. Thanks. Youre like the kind of people I ask for help at 3a.m. that say, "Sure, Be right there^^." Right on guys! You make this game! Without you, half of us wouldn't have our AF, our genkia's, Et Cetera; psshhhhtt half of us wouldnt have quit B4 we even got to Kazham.
*****Thanks to all the nice people of FFXI*****

Edited, Wed Sep 29 22:38:47 2004
enlightenment
# Sep 29 2004 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
To my fellow players and members of Alla,

I've been an avid reader but never a poster and here is my first post. After reading the news on this exploit and seeing a lack of explanation of how things came to be, I'm going to try to explain it.

A few months ago, a certain group of individuals were clever enough to realize something. I'm sure many of us have realized this as well. It is an event, something that occurs with a sense of awkwardness: Disconnection. Disconnection happens all the time (at least to me....grrr..). However, disconnection during a certain "time" WILL enable a glitch in the system. My first experience of this seemed to be just plain coincidence. I was mining, mined a zinc ore (the only thing i've mined so far) but my pickaxe also broke in the process. So.. I should end up with 11 pickaxes (stack) and a zinc ore. At the same moment, I suffered a disconnect. I logged back on, opened inventory, low and behold... 12 pickaxes, 1 zinc ore. Some of you may have also experienced this during high traffic times at the Auction House when buying an item, u get 2 for the price of 1.

This my friends is called missing packets. The "group" realized this and played upon it some more. Software along the lines of Bandwidth controllers where used to minimize incoming and outgoing packets... By doing so, one can "cause" a disconnect at the precise moment needed to "dupe".

Alas SE (in their infinite wisdom) managed to make that process harder (dont ask me how, that would take 10 posts). So the group developed another way to satisfy the cheating urges. They were able to rewrite a certain file in Final Fantasy that took place before the update. In other words, SE made it harder thru an update, the Cheaters turned the certain file that was updated back. The question I'm sure everyone has in their head: But wont u auto update as soon as u Playonline? No. The file unfortunately was a single file that the group sniffed out and was able to trick the updater thru added "empty" bits.

So hence...the "Dupe" Cheat once again is enabled.

Personaly commentary: I personally have not done this, but those who have knows who they are. I think to each their own, I have no qualms with those that find an alternate way to solve a problem. Yes it may interfere with me in the long run, but that would be my problem. Games and much of life to me are problems that come and go... solve the problem, move on. However, in the case of Final Fantasy, MMORPG's... since there is a growing number of players that do play the game for fun and not profit, "robbing" those players of such fun to me is a no no. Amazing... how a virtual economy can cause a demand in the real economy.

Ok enuf rant, theres my 2gils. Hope u all find this helpful.

PS: I did not write this post to tell people to try this, obviously it doesnt work anymore. If u do try this, its at ur own risk, i have nothing to do with it. I know I didnt give enuf info in this post to validate an effort so dont msg me and ask me how its done. I just dont want any desperate noobs hard for cash to try this, there are other ways to make good money.
RE: enlightenment
# Oct 02 2004 at 7:34 AM Rating: Decent
OMFG thats what happened with my cheifkabob and coffer key and all the items i gave away right before the HUGE first crash!! OMFG OMFG OMFG Square Enix YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: enlightenment
# Sep 30 2004 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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1,534 posts
ooh! nice post ^^, if you do it once, its an accident, if u do it more than once, its cheating!

edit: the DCing thingy lol.. not the post ^^

Edited, Fri Oct 1 19:36:03 2004
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[ffxivsig]346334[/ffxivsig]
Mecorx - Ifrit 75WAR/75WHM [Retired]
Mecorx - Odin 99WAR/99WHM/99DNC [Retired]
RE: enlightenment
# Sep 30 2004 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
Wow, i would figure anything like that would be a gamble as to whether the server forgot what you lost (gil you paid, or your pickaxe), or what you got (item bought or your zinc ore). Congrats to them for finding it out. But once they altered a file, it went from exploiting to hacking.
RE: enlightenment
# Sep 29 2004 at 11:24 PM Rating: Excellent
30 posts
/clap Yes, yes. Well put. I have a friend who did this, now he can't play FFXI. For the blunt people: You do this, you may be banned! I must say, I have been tempted to use these 'tricks', have you, as well as botting. I have all the programs needed to bot. But I don't use them. Not after 3 of my friends have been banned for using this technique and for botting. To those who complain about money shortage: Take up a craft, sure, it's expensive, but once you hit the higher levels, the profits far outweigh the costs.For the price of a rock and a crystal, for example, you can make 8,000,000. That's a 7,995,000 profit. If you can complain about that, you shouldn't be playing this game, plain and simple. Earn your money the hard way, the feeling of accomplishment is much more rewarding than that of botting or cheating. There is my 2 gil. Goodnight.

Edited, Thu Sep 30 00:24:58 2004
RE: enlightenment
# Sep 29 2004 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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1,100 posts
Well worded and right on target.
This is not about botters or gil sellers.
# Sep 29 2004 at 7:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,777 posts
Ok, for those of you whom are reading this, this post is not about botters or gil sellers. To the best of my understanding, there was a way to duplicate items/gil that you already had so that you would have 2 copys of them. IE. if I had a peacock charm I could take advantage of this bug and make 2 peacock charms. It was a dupe that took advantage of an error in the game programming. I don't know the full details, or how to perform it, I only know it existed. I applaud SE for repairing and monitering these issues. I know I have nothing to fear because I have never cheated in game, and SE fixing this shows me that they care about their customers.

Also on a side note: I know a lot of people get really upset when SE schedules downtime for maintenence. I understand that this is an inconvienience, but without it the game would have problems and errors that would really make playtime harder. I used to play Everquest and that game was so full of bugs that by the 8th expansion the servers crashed on a regular basis. If you had just killed a massively high end MOB and gotten a super rare drop right before the crash you would not be reimbursed if it was lost. Sony basically kept adding new content without fixing existing problems that were known by the staff.

Maintenence is a necessity. If SquareEnix announces maintenence, I am ok with that because I know it means they are correcting an error/flaw that would otherwise hinder playability of FFXI. I have played FFXI nearly a year now and the server has never once crashed on any world. The gameplay is stable, and the world runs smoothly. They show they care about their customers by keeping the game in tip-top running condition and I for one humbly thank the team of Square-Enix for keeping on top of necessary repairs. After all, wouldn't YOU be upset if you had just killed King Behemoth and lost that abjuration because of a world crash, never to see it again? Do you think its fair for dupes to be allowed to stay in game even after becoming known, allowing others to cheat and make life for the normal player harder? I didn't think so. Good job S-E keep up the good work!! Thank you for showing us you care about your customers enough to fix what needs to be fixed and doing so in a timely manner ^^
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[ffxisig]56619[/ffxisig]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
RE: This is not about botters or gil sellers.
# Sep 29 2004 at 8:05 PM Rating: Decent
18 posts
well said, i totaly support that comment

however one addition to the caring of SE to its customers...

when they see the servers get overpopulated, they even open a brand new server.. what..? even 3 of them!!

i think this is another sign that SE really cares about his customers, and her reputation in keeping final fantasy the best (MMO)rpg in the world :) well done SE thumbs up!
equal opportunity gil
# Sep 29 2004 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
isn't it funny how you can tell who got the boot for exploiting? they almost always flame, but anyways to sink to that level to make money puts you in with the botters and gil-farmers. everyone has to make money somehow why should anybody be allowed to exploit. I mean look at Martha Stewart -O.0-

P.S. Gambling is reality live with it, too bad they have to spam to do it though!
RE: equal opportunity gil
# Sep 29 2004 at 8:09 PM Rating: Decent
18 posts
well, big scale farming and botting is what the gil selling companies like IGE do..

really a lame thing to set a bunch of poor people in russia and asian world behind a PC all day for a lousy few dollars, and make them only farm gil and powerleveling carachers in other games like everquest..

i read a very detailed article about cannotlinkto and related companies last week, and u are really surprised that MILLIONS of dollars/euros go in those companies... they are making games an Exploit.. too bad people even spend 100 dollars on getting a lousy 500K or so, for this 100 dollars 3 people spend all day behind their screen having no fun at farming all day, camping NM's and having a dozen of computers with botting abilities in multiple games..
i think this is where SE has to fight its next war against..

ive seen mmorpgs being destroyed by such actions, and offcourse massive abuse of exploits from the gamers too
RE: equal opportunity gil
# Sep 29 2004 at 9:20 PM Rating: Default
i personally have no problems with gil farmers.

1. it's provides a job which brings home food for those people in those "poor" countries.

2. the money is being EARNED. as long as the money is being EARNED and not just duped via a bug or something, let them do with it what they want. It's definatly not messing up the system if they earned the money.

3. It's not iilegal as in the goverment iilegal it's not harming anybody. no one going to Die of gil farming. they might have sore hands for awhile but hey that's what happens when you play a game for 12+hours of the day. It's not like it's going to kill off people like the plaque.

Now botting i think is compleatly wrong cause they themselfs are not earning it.

Duping on a online game is wrong. people who do it should get their accounts canceled and arrested by the irl police of their local country and they should pay a fine or go to jail or something.

RE: equal opportunity gil
# Sep 30 2004 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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1,534 posts
You dont know.. the half of it! theyre just lazy good for nothing ppl tat drop out of school I WOULD KNOW i speak chinese, ive met tons of those ppl!

Selling gil is also against the rules.

Edited, Fri Oct 1 00:27:09 2004
____________________________
[ffxivsig]346334[/ffxivsig]
Mecorx - Ifrit 75WAR/75WHM [Retired]
Mecorx - Odin 99WAR/99WHM/99DNC [Retired]
RE: equal opportunity gil
# Sep 30 2004 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
**
350 posts
No problem with gil farmers??

Aside from the real-life employment aspect, there's the little detail of SE's in-game ToS (Terms of Service) that we're all supposed to abide by. When these people farm, it's annoying, but not 'illegal' in-game. However, when the company that is employing them turns around and sells that gil to other players in exchange for real life money, that is a violation of ToS, and is therefore not a 'legal' in-game activity.

I can't speculate on the real life legal situation of companies like cannotlinkto blatently breaking this in-game contract, but SE should sue the pants off these companies if it's possible.

I myself don't have a problem making my own money in-game (mining can easily net upwards of 100k/day) so I'm not just saying all this to whine because I'm broke and can't compete with farmers/bots to make a living.
RE: equal opportunity gil
# Oct 01 2004 at 7:49 AM Rating: Default
Lord, looks like I missed a huge section of the ToS. My bad, guess my comp was actin funky when I was trying to go through it. Sorry for my idiocy =\. But Although I was wrong about it being illegal and against the ToS, this cannot be compared to "copying metallica cd's or bootlegging video games" though, as again, they are not creating the gil.

Like the anon guy said though, I also bet it's nearly impossible for SE to prosecute for such a matter. And even so, if this were to happen it still wouldn't eliminate bots and gil selling. What's gonna stop a kid from selling gil at school? Teachers won't know wtf is going on and there won't be records of it ever happening.

Here's an idea...how about everyone buy gil at the same time =D They can't terminate all PO accounts =D

Edited, Mon Oct 4 09:20:20 2004
RE: equal opportunity gil
# Oct 02 2004 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
It IS illegal, i asked a GM the other day when my gil didn't come in from a AH sale...i should of kept the painite and sold it now, i would of made twice as much =(
oh and the gil came in about 5 minutes later, the AH and Delivery Boxes are on separate but connected servers.
RE: equal opportunity gil
# Oct 01 2004 at 1:06 PM Rating: Decent
Actually you are the one that is incorrect.
Gil farming is illegal per ToS article 3.1(a)
3.1 Prohibited Activities.
You may not use the Game or PlayOnline for any activities that are illegal, fraudulent, or a violation of the rights of any third party. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the following acts and activities are strictly prohibited and shall, without prejudice to any other rights or remedies that SEI may have, be cause for immediate termination of your PlayOnline account and your right to play the Game (or any other services) in connection therewith:

(a) Any activities consisting of selling, purchasing or exchanging “gil” or any other currency that may be used in the Game from time to time, characters, and/or Game items for value (including, but not limited to, any payment in kind and any payment in any currency recognized as legal tender in any country, state, territory or other jurisdiction anywhere in the world) through any means or venue, including, without limitation, Internet auctions or other online exchanges;

I would change my post and/or apologize for telling this gentleman he is FOS.
Also, a donation in real life terms is an amount not predefined that is also not required to recieve a service. i.e. a church giving a tape with a donation, they will give it gladly for free if you need it the donation just helps them. Gil seller are selling not donating they make a huge profit and most do not just dabble in this they also sell other items on e-bay. One of them I have seen sold me 1 out of a huge lot of Hammer drills off of e-bay.
Do I hate gil selling, no. Do I hate the repricuttions, yes. People that steal drops and farm locations make it really hard for me to farm gil and thus I cannot keep up. I raised my Fishing skill to 14 so far and plan to go further but man the moat drop is slow lately. Making it hard for me to level NIN they way i would like, as I do not have 16 hours a day to play because I work and go to school full time, plus I have 2 kids.

RE: equal opportunity gil
# Oct 01 2004 at 8:04 AM Rating: Good
Actually, FFXI gil as well as all characters and items in the game are the intellectual property of SE. Trading them for profit, virtual or not, is illegal. It's probably not a violation of the terms of service because, even if it's related to their game and their intellectual property, they can't make real world crimes part of their terms - like "murderers can't play".

It's no different than, say, silk screening Simpsons t-shirts and selling them, or copying Metallica CDs and selling them, or bootlegging video games. Sure, the company doesn't own your t-shirt or your CDRs, but they own the concept imprinted on them. It's their virtual property, and you're selling it without a license.

But I bet you anything it's nearly impossible to prosecute for such a crime. Not to mention it would be expensive, and it's not like all the profits IGE makes would be turned over to SE - they're not going to start selling their own gil. Plus we have international issues here. So you're not going to see anyone behind bars for peddling gil and platinum online (yet).
RE: equal opportunity gil
# Sep 30 2004 at 4:31 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
It's not like it's going to kill off people like the plaque.


Homer: Thanks for giving me my old job back.

Burns: I'm afraid it's not that simple. As punishment for your desertion, it's company policy to give you the plague.

Smithers: Uh, sir, that's the plaque.
so how?
# Sep 29 2004 at 5:54 PM Rating: Decent
**
572 posts
Jsut a question. i hear that they did this by duping gil/items. but how did they do it? not so i can do it and get my *** banned, but to know what the proccess is. Just curious.
Just A Thought
# Sep 29 2004 at 5:36 PM Rating: Default
I personally wouldnt risk botting at anytime.It would be a pain in the *** to have to start all over again.Imagine waiting on that acient papyrus to drop again just to go over lvl 50 (seeing how the coal and mold could be fairly simple to drop in my experience in contrast to the papyrus).
However i cant seem to stop wondering if a lot of people are ******** about the botters because they dont know how to bot themselves?
Ive camped NMs and with the right macro set you can target them before they do at many times.
However i understand the annoyance.
lol i expect idiots probally railing down on me cause of a thought of question and not an opinion i stated.
maybe this
# Sep 29 2004 at 5:35 PM Rating: Default
There are so many bots on my server, unicorn, and they **** me off. I cant stand when im trying to get an nm like lizzy or spook and there's 5-10 bot camping them. I need the boots for my drg and it pissed me off when thee same person gets the dam lizzy everytime i camp it. They need to find a way to monitor these ppl who bot.
Also gil should be easier to make in this game. Someone in my LS is probably gonna quit the game because he cant make any money. I myself am struggling to get money. The quests and missions should be more rewarding. Because if i need an item dropped by an incredibly tough, im gonna check the AH. So i see that item sell for 1k and i go back to finish the quest and only get 500 back. Each quest should have a minimum reward of 1k gil or some amount that will make doing the quest worthwhile, rather than buying the item off the AH. I hope they make it easier to make gil. Maybe make it so u can get a paying job at some store or run errands for an npc; they could pay you bi-weekly in game and the better job the more money u make.
RE: maybe this
# Oct 01 2004 at 5:40 AM Rating: Good
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130 posts
Do you have a brain? Why do you think people sell the item you need for 1k? SO THEY CAN MAKE MONEY! If the reward for the quest was 1k, the item would be selling for 1.5k+. Else, what would be the point of putting the item on auction if you could just go do the quest and make more money? Also, you can't make money? Then you aren't trying. "Oh, I want to do almost nothing and have the game give me money twice a week!" It doesn't work that way in life, and it doesn't work that in this game either. It's incredibly easy to earn money in this game! There's a person on my server who farms Lizzy constantly, and I'm not going to name him. However, it's legitimate, as Khali said. He took the time to get good at it, and even though it may make me mad that he's making gobs of cash selling them, he's still working for it. Your LS buddy is a wimp, as are you. You want money, how about you stop leveling for a little while? The quests and missions are fine, what's the problem is you're not willing to put an ounce of effort into getting what's needed. You're the reason they guy at EB asks if I want a strategy guide for 20% off every time I buy a game. Well, for once you've found a game that DOESN'T have an "infinite money" cheat, and guess what? There's nothing you can do except work harder or quit. And THAT'S my 2gil.
RE: maybe this
# Sep 29 2004 at 6:28 PM Rating: Excellent
**
264 posts
Quote:
I cant stand when im trying to get an nm like lizzy or spook and there's 5-10 bot camping them.


It's almost sad how little people want to understand about botting so that they have something to complain about. I've camped lizzy for my boots and with a friend for his boots. Combined, I've camped Lizzy 17 times and gotten 12 of those kills before we had the 2 drops, so I have some knowledge of what camping Lizzy is like. Leaping Lizzy appears randomly within an area which has about the same diameter as my lvl 10 ranger subjob's Wide Scan. This covers a significant portion of the map. You can program a bot to voke anything within its range, but I dare anyone to find a bot to make an absent character spam Wide Scan, notice Leaping Lizzy before anyone else, run for 20 seconds toward Leaping Lizzy, and then voke it. I took the time to get Flee, Wide Scan and then took the time to become a good hunter, and yet people complained to me that I was cheating when I would consistantly beat half a dozen people to the fight. Nobody is unfairly stealing Lizzy from you. The pop range is wide enough that a botter would almost never get to the fight. Quit whining.
Um...
# Sep 29 2004 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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215 posts
Well, considering they're rare you can only have 1 pair of them.... that's why I'm glad SE made most high-priced items rare so you can only hold one and, not make a ton of gil on them.
RE: Um...
# Sep 29 2004 at 9:44 PM Rating: Decent
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161 posts
SE didn't decide which items are high-priced, the players did. And yes, you can only hold one rare item of the same name in your inventory at a time, but it doesn't stop you from having 7 of them in your AH box. And if you don't think making a sh*t load of gil off NM rare item drops is possible, you must be blind.
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