Rogue-only guild on Firiona VieFollow

Since my Rogue made it to 21 lately I've been thinking about creating my own guild. Since I want something new that also reflects my playing style I decided for A Rogues only guild, the

"INDEPENDENT TRADEFOLK"

Now where's the point in a one-class-only Guild that is one of the least versatile in the game also? Mainly in the role-playing aspect, a guild like that seems both realistic and logic and if it doesn't already exist it's simply about time.

As my style of play is not based on "success" I was also never fond of the idea to join a guild for the benefits of having someone else do the tailoring, fletching, farming, enchanting or whatever for me and vice versa. Also the "help in advancement" idea nearly all groups share does not mean anything to me.

So what can I offer my fellow Rogues? Simple as it may sound - a guild with SOME benefits and FEW obligations. I'm looking for solo'ers like myself who sometimes play the whole weekend and then a week not at all and who sometimes are in the mood for grouping with just 1 or 2 individuals or just socialising a bit. As a Rogue I prefer to cooperate with Rogues more than with a complimentary class because my main advance is useless in groups: Hide! It's pointless for me to hide while resting when my fellow paladins or clerics get attacked all the time. Also a hearty double backstab for 150 makes for a good start but that also would be pointless to do alone if my partner had to stand outside aggro range and I would take hits from a whole camp for 4-6 ticks till he joins

Besides - it's rather handy that all Rogues share the Thieves Chant which makes it for a guild that mixes all possible races together very easy to communicate.

So what’s the deal in the end?

Benefits
- Trading: For obvious reasons most Rogues wield 2 piercing Weapons so it’s a good thought to sell ones old weapons inside a Rogues Guild than on the Bazaar.
- Poison: buying and selling poison and ingredients is also more or less rogues-only so a young blade kann fetch more profit (or have a steady buyer at all!) by selling his venom sacks to fellow guild-members than to vendors. And even on the bazaar I found it near to impossible to buy ingredients in amounts larger than 1 or 2.
- Adventuring: For the ones who love the hide & sneak style (as I do) and who negate being refered to as “second tank” ther’d be fellow-minded Rogues to venture with. And (no matter if such a group is efficient or not) it’s usually impossible to find 4-5 Rogues of same level in a zone. For the ones who prefer the “roleplaying mode” (like me) it’s easy now to identify potential partners in crime because ALL guildmembers are Rogues.
- Hiring: If the guild prospers and makes itself a name in being specialised I can imagine it could become popular to hire a Rogue of over the Guild. Many groups who’s style prefers other classes would gladly hire a trap disarmer, lockpicker or backstabber on a one-time basis who just takes his share in the end and simply waves goodbye before vanishing in the shadows above enlarging their group or guild.
- Anoymous: members MAY go anonymous. If one doesn’t want anybody to know he/she is in a guild that’s fine with me. Rogues of all races keep a low profile usually – so everyones invited to keep it as low as possible.
- Freedom: This guild does not oblige it’s members to help or benefit each other in any way. And no ones expected to give the guild a good name. If one has the heart of a paladin who backstabs mobs away from nearly dead fellows it’s fine with me, if one’s a lone wolf who goes into hide mode while others die by the number it’s ok too.


Obligations
- Behaviour: The official rules of conduct apply of course. Kill-stealing and ninja-looting is out of question, as is harassing other players.
- Roleplaying: I expect from guildmembers not to spend hours of playing lurk around in adventure camps and shoutin’ “”33 lvl RG lfg” every 10 seconds because the’re unable to get along on their own and too lazy to offer their “services” in a more stylish way.
- Thieves Chant: NEVER teach the chant to an outsider – this is the only thing I truly expect from fellow rogues

Now that I made so much words: Every rogue on Firiona Vie - level 11+ , no matter what race or deity - who’s interested please write me:

Independent_tradefolk@hotmail.com

Class only guilds almost never work. The role playing aspect is nice but the practicality just isn't there. Who's gonna heal you when you are on a GUILD ONLY raid? As much as it would be nice to see 5 rogues backstabbing, the one tanking would not last long in higher level areas. Who's gonna rez you when the tank bites it? Who's gonna mez the 4/5 adds that you will get when the sneak fails? You can't say that you'll take a cleric along because then it won't be an all guild raid. What happens to the role playing then?

You are better off with an all Race guild as opposed to all class guild. I have seen an all dark elf guild which worked but eventually opened their doors to humans (through characters role playing and storyline).

Other option - have a limited number of other classes in the guild. Kinda like honorary rogues. For RP purposes, you could put them through some sort of test to achieve this status (like a college fraternity).

Legacy of Sha is a Beastlord only guild on Firiona Vie. It has been around for two months and currently has more than eighty members from all different servers. I don't think they have done any raids, but I can vouche for the fact that all Beast groups own. They have a guild board at EQBeastlord.com.

As I read the original posters idea, I was thinking that the only place this would work, or be cool, would be a PVP server. Three or four rogues appearing out of no where and backstabbing someone to death, then back hiding. Sounds cool to me.

True that on a PvP server it would be cool - on FV it'll be just fun ;)

I'm so glad to hear that your playstyle is not based on success. Your idea would certainly be difficult if it was.

Your thinking is probably majorly coloured by your having achieved 21. At that level rogues are viable melee as much as rangers and warriors etc. A group would still work just about although you would get really good at bind wound.

However I seriously doubt you would find enough like minded people for whom levelling was not a requirement and who had no wish to do any exp groups, LDoN etc. You would be almost entirely limited to roleplaying in taverns and having sneaking contests.

There are some serious flaws in your view of the benefits though.

Where did you get the strange idea that your "main advance" was Hide or that this was useless in groups?



Are we playing the same game? While I often use hide in downtime, sometimes for scouting (a use for it in groups!). Also why does your partner have to wait 4-6 ticks while you get beat on? I don't understand the scenario.




This is perilously close to the "helping guildies with tradeskills" that you said you despised in more general guilds. Most "venom sacks" triv so low that his fellow guild members won't want to buy them and poison-making is an expensive business. Where do you get the loot to buy the ingredients (whether from guildies or vendors)? Your playstyle advocates a lot of hiding and sneaking but no actual fighting anything.




Why on earth would they do that? Your guild cannot progress in levels because you eschew all activities that gain experience. At the very most you might reach late 20's before a rogue cannot tank efficiently. Possibly much lower with no healer. Your skills in these things will be limited by that. Also the things that need a lock picker are usually in zones that a level 20 cannot freely visit. Nor would they expect their hired rogue to stand back from the fight and say "I'm only here for the locks". Very RP but not very likely to get you hired twice.

As for wanting a backstabber from you, apart from your lack of skill caused by not training it (can only be done on exp mobs in combat), your members - if they follow your way - will have no idea how to behave in a group.

especially if they take your


to heart they'll really be in demand




At least get this right - it is Thieves Cant - not Chant - you're not monks.

I doubt that you'd get that guildname because it is so close to NPC faction names but you might.

I suspect that if you ever got this off the ground you would find that your fellow guildmembers spent their time in exp groups and perhaps came to your guild "sneak-ins" now and again. You are really asking people to play an item based experience levelling game with no hope of items or experience. I suspect your constituency will be very small.

The main danger is that while they do this and you enjoy your version of roguing they will outlevel you and you will be unable to visit the same places as your members.

finally


Nobody in their right mind thinks of a rogue as a "second tank". You are a specialised damage dealer. All your skills and disciplines are focused on doing damage (Not hiding). Anyone who expects a rogue to tank knows very little about rogues.

Your Hide skill is critical in this. If you are a good rogue and do lots of damage then you may annoy the mob enough to take aggro off the tank. Then your ability to Evade (using Hide) is important to you and to the group

Sorry if this seems negative but you're putting a lot of hope, energy and imagination into a completely skewed understanding of a class I love.

All groups need backstab, it is the defining feature of a Rogue. It is what puts rogues above Warriors, Monks, and Rangers, in the Melee DPS race. Get another 10 levels if you can and you will soon find out that the lack of advancemeent will push you back into the mainstream.

Well, good luck, I'm afraid this will never get off the ground. As I stated before it might be possible on a PVP server, but once you hit 35+ you will see how slow the XP comes in and how long it takes you to heal 1500hps. You will soon get bored. You will have time to sit down, hide, and go for a snack? No, try a 5 course meal. It will take you easily 15 minutes per kill, and you need say 50 kills for a level. The game will get stagnant for you.

Sorry to hear about your cookies, Reinman. Hope they get better soon.

Leiany:
Don't get me wrong, you're welcome to try this and from an RP perspective I can see what you are trying to achieve.

However to correct some of the errors in your corrections



This is NOT how you use backstabbing in groups. You may do it like this if you wish but your group will think you are a dangerous loony.

Normally a rogue will want to avoid aggro at all costs since when they start to work the mob becomes seriously upset with them (hence the evade skill mentioned earlier). You let someone else pull the mobs, preferably one at a time, and once it is engaged you position yourself behind the mob and attack, hitting backstab as it refreshes. No hiding is required unless you need to evade. This does require one tank (termed the MA) to retain aggro. Something unusual in PC but required as you progress up the levels.

Backstabbing is not really a skill for soloing since you will get maybe one stab in and then the mob will turn on you and you are tanking it toe to toe. This is neither cool nor roguish. And do not mention Intimidate :)

On the hiding on Oasis, it is not rocket science. I agree that if you could both hide it would help during downtime - except I'm not sure if Bind Wound breaks Hide or not. Long time since I tried to do both at once. If it does then you have no benefit. You have exchanged your healer for a stack of bandages. If it doesn't then yes you and your fellow rogue could bind up to 50% in hiding. You will spend a lot of time hidden waiting for hp to recover. Oasis is a bit of a pain for wanderers but normally people choose places with few or no wandering mobs pathing through and pull things there to kill. This way they are not constantly attacked while medding. Having a real healer would have helped too. At 19 a Paladin heals what - 33hp?

I take your point in hiding from other people's trains and of course that is good sense.

Your wish to have a guild of "lone-wolfs" is laudable but rogues are the least "lone-wolf" characters. You have chosen to play and RP yours that way and that is your right and privilege. In EQ game mechanic terms they are probably the most group dependent character class there is. Given this it is unlikely there are very many rogues who started their characters intending to solo.

You are one of a very small minority of players for whom EQ is a backdrop against which they can roleplay and for whom the game element is largely irrelevant. There are others like this on FV but I think finding 10 rogues like it with whom to form a guild is a bit ambitious.

There are many roleplay guilds on FV who do not have enforced attendance or other such restrictions and exist for people to act out their stories within the fabric of EQ. Your best bet is to find one of these and then you will be free to do your own thing.

Thank you all for the more or less helpfull comments. After thinking about all them(and the ones I got on other boards for the same post) it seems to me that silly me didn't realize until now she got herself into a MORE success-oriented society that the one she leaves when she turns on the PC.

Funny thing though: if I tell my real-life friends I rather do some VERY time consuming 2x1 m abstract painting for my living room instead of doin just another small cute nude art piece that sells for 100 bucks over the web in 2 hours nobody tells me I will have serious drawbacks in live if i keep painting for my own satisfaction instead of making money and that I waste my talent....

....but on virtual Norrath I seem to be some kind of looney because of the same reasons *LOL*

Well at least I've learned that I better do my thing and not talk about it.




"It's the gettin' not the havin'....."

(and still native german speaker who hasn't reached the 200 English skill yet *grin*)

What makes some of you people - no matter how politely said - think that theres ONE way for everything in EQ thats right (which you all seem to know like a preacher knows the bible) and everything else is wrong.

Do you in real life also tell others that it's not gonna work how they do their job, run their company, raise their children do their studies,etc?

And talking of anthologies: I rather feel like if I told everyone I need some gals (or guys) for a streetball team to play in the park and everbody shakes their heads and tell me that I'll never get my players to the NBA that way and so no one will join me. If I joined the NBA of roleplaying...err...lvl-maxing-in-a-fantasy-environment I will still try to dunk at my 1.76 with slim chances just for the sheer excitment :))

hmmm....I can't really deny the anology with with the baseball team....points on you :/

@patrician ...which is reflected in your attitude (no offense meant)

funny enough me is a technichian who usually calculates everything, minimizes cost and maximates succes....which is reflected in MY attitude (to have it be funny&exciting instead of working in my spare time) *smile*

Ah but many people who have ordinary jobs or even extraordinary jobs see very little change from day to day. Games offer a world in which changes are rapid and uncomplex. It is far easier to "ding" than to figure out if your boss thinks better of you today than he did last week. Games like EQ have simple, tangible results, levels, skills, titles etc. So I would take it as given that the majority of people playing these games have a motivation to progress. This is what you describe as "success-oriented".

Actually I think it isn't a very good phrase since it implies that what you are doing is the opposite of success - ie failure. I think this is wrong, you merely wish to play the game in a non-progressive way.

Where you and I disagreed is your interpretation of rogue abilities. Regardless of your guild ambitions you do have the wrong idea about rogues. This is not to say you are wrong to play your rogue any way you wish, merely that the techniques and attributes you ascibe to rogues are not supported in either the game mechanic or the playerbase.

Let me give you an example. There are on FV Paladins who RP that they have fallen from grace and lost their powers. They refuse to use spells. This provides them with a strong RP story and no doubt they enjoy acting it out. However it is not popular in groups and makes it very hard for them to progress. They may well be as unconcerned by this as you are by the prospect of not advancing your rogue. This is fine if you are happy. However it is very, very rare.

Rogues are good at exploring up to a certain point (see invis mobs) and pretty good at extracting their corpses from nasty places. If you want to be a lone-wolf then it isn't a bad choice for exploring. But eventually you will have seen all that can be seen at your level and have to progress in order to see more.

I would not say there is only one way to do things. In fact it was your insistence that backstab did not work in groups that seemed to be saying that your idea - sneak to mob, stab it and wait for grouop to come help - was the only way to use it in groups. As an experienced player I can safely say it is not used this way. You might perhaps pull that way but that is not how a rogue does their best work.

I genuinely wish you well and provided you learn a bit more about how rogues work - ie Backstab works very well in groups - hope you enjoy the journey. Because it is the journey that matters.