Legacy of the Ykesha AnnouncedJan 15th, 2003 at 10:17 AM by Aderon

Today began as any other post patch day for Everquest users. They fired up their PCs, logged into the patch program, and watched as they began to download the changes implimented the night before. But instead they found something else. Word of the newest Everquest expansion was released According to the patch message, the new expansion, entitled Legacy of the Ykesha will feature all the expected bonuses from a new release, new spells, new zones, new monsters and quests, as well as a few surprises such as extended bank space and a new item slot, "charms". However, all of that pales in comparison to the two shocking announcements regarding this expansion. First, this will be Everquest's first downloadable expansion, requiring no hardcopy cds, fully accessed through their own servers. Second, many of the rumors on the web have been confirmed, a new playable race will be added. For the first time Everquest players will be able to control Frogloks, not just kill them en mass. Frogloks will be the third playable race added after the original release. Iksars were made available in the first expansion, Ruins of Kunark, and the cat people of the Vah Shir first made their appearance as Player Characters in Shadows of Luclin. Legacy of the Ykesha has an expected "live" date of February 24th, 2003 and will have a preorder cost of $17.95 to activate the expansion on release. There was more to this patch but, really, who cares right? We all know what the big story was. But for convenience, the entire patch message is related below. Stay tuned for more patch related mayhem, and news of the newest frogtastic expansion as it becomes available. FROOOAAAAKKK
January 15, 2003 3:00 am ------------------------------ *** Announcing The Legacy of Ykesha *** The Legacy of Ykesha will be the first download-only extension for EverQuest. This product will not be available in stores. This extension will include some great new gameplay features, as well as new zones for characters ranging from level 35 up to level 60. Legacy of Ykesha Features include: A new playable race: Frogloks Enhanced Looking For Group Tool New Cartography System New Magic Item slot: Charms Armor Dyes Dozens of new creatures Expanded bank capacity New zones New spells For more information, please visit www.legacyofykesha.com *** Patch Information *** ** Gameplay/Features ** - With our last patch and the patch today, we've significantly reduced the amount of bandwidth that EverQuest needs to use, even in large raid or extremely-crowded-zone situations. - Fixed a problem with tints not properly updating when armor is removed. - Fixed a bug with character faces displaying incorrectly to other players when you zone in after them. - Fixed resurrection timer that was counting down against the 3 hour limit when player was not logged in. - Corrected a problem with health and movement updates being delayed. ** Spells ** - NPCs will now notice Druid and Shaman Percentage Heal spells in a manner similar to traditional healing spells. - Removed the chance for slow spells to be reversed from the 17 NPCs that had this ability. - Fixed a bug that was preventing Curses, Diseases, and Poisons from being removed. - Raised all recast times below 2.25 seconds up to 2.25 seconds. This is a change in the spell data as the first part of a two-part change needed to correct the "Recast time not met" problem. More information is available at the Developer's Corner at www.everquest.com. ** Alternate Advancement/Special Abilities ** - The range on the Bard Ability "Boastful Bellow" has been increased slightly. - Fixed a bug with Harm Touch that was not allowing it to increase the standard amount per level over level 60. ** User Interface ** - Fixed a bug with effects in the Songs window. They were not getting removed on the client when the bard was dispelled. - Introduced new Story window. The purpose of this window is to provide story updates in a readily available location. ALT-N toggles the window. You can select to have the window pop up when new story elements are added if you wish. - Item Links are once again creatable from Items and from other Item Links. Please do not attempt to "mine" the servers for undiscovered items. Links now have a built-in mechanism to prevent those who would go on fishing expeditions by sending up many bad links in an attempt to discover new items. These invalid links are logged, as are the accounts of those who create them. - Added an optional confirmation box before spending AA points. To turn on this confirmation box, please check the Options window. ** Miscellaneous ** - Sage Quests in Plane of Knowledge have been fixed. - The event to fight Bertoxxulous in the Crypt of Decay will reset 4 to 6 hours after the event is failed. It will respawn normally if the event is won. ** New/Changed Interface Files ** - EQUI_StoryWnd.xml (actually added with the Jan. 9th patch) - EQUI_OptionsWnd.xml
Tags: EverQuest, News

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Means to an end
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# Jan 16 2003 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Look people, in a nut shell, sitting here writing rants back and forth amongst us players about EQ problems, downloads, costs, etc. we need to be doing it in game to the GM's and Guides to make any kind of difference possible. Maybe then, and only maybe then, will they possibly realize they need to do something with all these problems and people coming forward with concerns before they have a real problem on their hands.

As of now, as posted by others, they continue to do nothing because we keep giving them our money and not complaining through the proper channels, making it apparent to them we will let them bend us over and do as they please. I've already put in several problem calls in game myself. Everyone else do the same...please. Thanks.
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RE: Means to an end
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# Jan 16 2003 at 5:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dear anonymous,

I admire the spirit of your post. However, I think you've got a common misconception about the roles and abilities of guides and GMs. GMs, I believe, have little say or influence on the creative/technical aspects of EQ, and guides have even less. The best they can do is pass on what they're told, if they estimate it's worht passing on. Guides and GMs are in the game to provide in-game customer support, and that's the end of it. They do their best to help players resolve their in-game problems, then go home. Players griping to them about personal pet peeves about the game only makes their job that much harder.

Loonbeam mentions the /bug feature in another post. This is the best way to inform the support team of technical problems in the game.

There are discussion boards on eqlive.station.sony.com where you can post your feedback, and there are members of the team that supports EQ that read them and act on them. That's the most direct route of feedback you have to the EQ team. I'll bet there's an official e-mail address for feedback there, too.

In game, play the game! And if you're not having fun, as the cataclysmic tone of your post suggests, well, you should look at what you're doing cultivating your EQ habit.

For real life feedback/issues about the game, send feedback *in real life* to the people who can do something about it. Take it to the Sony boards!
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RE: Means to an end
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# Jan 16 2003 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Okay, I was a bit off on the roles of GMs and Guides. Speaking of misconceptions... Anyway, the truth is out there. Check out http://eqlive.station.sony.com/library/faqs/faq_guide.jsp for a full detail of what guides can and can't do. It also features email addresses and webpages you can use to contact both the EQ team and your server's head GM to give feedback. Carry on.
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RE: Means to an end
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# Jan 16 2003 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Yet another call to CA. Boy, this expansion is gonna cost me more in Phone Bills than it will for the code :)

Just for fun, I asked for a copy of an actual 'bad' bug report. Didn't think they'd send it, but this was forwarded to me... Names have been deleted to protect the ignorant (not by me).

Dt: 01/12/2003
Tm: 04:33A
Ac: <deleted>
Sv: MM
Tx: My spell didnt work [sic]


I had to laugh
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PoP spells
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# Jan 16 2003 at 3:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I really wish they would have taken the time to finish PoP first. It seems to me that there are many spells and such that were advertised before the release of PoP that were never fixed. I play a Enchanter as my main and I have noticed that the spells for lower levels that SOE had promised where not there :( I have a level 20 spell right now that is for Enchanters only that I cannot use that GM's tell me they have no idea what is going on. It is called Vision of the Sebilite. There are also level 44 and 52 spells that were scrapped. So for under level 60 we got shrink/summon pet? :( Not quite what was advertised.
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RE: PoP spells
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# Jan 16 2003 at 4:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Vision of Sebilite = Illusion:Iksar. It's a Kunark era spell. Works for me just fine.

As far as PoP spells under 60: at lvl 34 you also get Entrancing Lights - a PBAoE 6 second mez - nothing exciting, but there you go. This last expansion was, without a doubt, aimed at the high-end game, which it excels at.

As far as the other "advertised" spells - those were test server spells only - and as they tell you over and over again, just because they're on test does not mean they will go live. They were deemed imbalancing - and to be honest, enchanters have no business with a SoW spell, even if it is self only (Illusion:Scaled Wolf) or a PBAoE that stuns and does a ridiculous amount of damage (Will of Saryrn).

You didn't get screwed - you just put too many expectations into what this expansion was all about. Seems to me that PoP IS finished - at least the planes that I can get to (tier 2).
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RE: PoP spells
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# Jan 16 2003 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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My 19 spells work fine and I have the 49 spell I was supposed to get, but can't use it yet. I had not heard anything beyond the two, so I'm curious to know where you heard those, just to see if there is anything I missed..

Loonbeam
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Society of Assassins (www.eqsoa.net)
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Sony is the bad guy?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I have been hearing about this 'Sony is here to make money. Period.' nonsense for near 3 years now and I never post, just roll my eyes, but this is getting ridiculous.

At a blazing speed, the new 'extension' was announced and people are here spewing the same thought verbatim as they did when PoP was announced, as well as SoL and SoV. Its truly sad.

So, you think money-grubbing writers just scribbled a few names, towns, and stories to get paid? You think the artists just used generic animations to get paid? You think the entire development teams, as well as the management teams that fight to keep their dev team happy while suits ask for products early are just doing that for the money? Sony is a normal business and if you think these artists and writers and developers log out of their systems to hop in their Vipers and snuggle up to their playmate girlfriends and laugh at the suckers who enjoy and appreciate this stuff, then please, be ignorant somewhere else. Its silly, at this point.

And basically, sony markets and provides the method in which it is handed to you, but it is Verant, the acquired group of super talented and dedicated writers, artists, and programmers that make things they want you to enjoy, that they want to enjoy. They may have gone to different tech schools, but they are no different than us and to say 'Sony wants money. Period' and then begin one of billions of rants is insulting, rude, and really ignorant. Because its the guys that care that make this stuff and only the guys that care that read it.

So, before you give the finger again to the blood and sweat of the dev teams and then go pick up your Sony mp3 player or discman on your way to watch a movie with a friend on his 32" sony trinitron, think about who the real cold fish is here. Because in 3 years, I have found I've been given a lot more fun and enjoyment from the ongoing creators of Everquest than I ever did from repetitive and hollow rants coming from people such as yourselves.

(i think it goes without saying that this only applies to you if you feel offended at the end)

r.
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#Anonymous, Posted: Jan 16 2003 at 9:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Shut your stupid pie hole! You really think these guys do what they do for our enjoyment? Then you're dumber than your post makes you out to be. Do you really believe, that if the developers weren't getting PAID, they would still do do what they do for our enjoyment? Get a clue. Bottom line is, it's all about the dollar.
RE: Sony is the bad guy?
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# Jan 17 2003 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Funny how anonymous posting loosens some tongues to take what WOULD have been a constructive discussion, and turn it into garbage...

*Smacks Anonymous over the head with a bat*

That help?

Smiley: grin

Edit just added grin to show I was meaning to be silly... I glanced back over this and at he time I wrote it, I meant to seem silly, but was kinda peeved at Loom, so didn't come across silly... Oh well /rude GaliemVaelant

Edited, Fri Jan 17 13:08:00 2003
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RE: Sony is the bad guy?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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correction "Tell me where you see anyone bad mouthing the dev team or Sony" Should have been "Tell me where you see anyone bad mouthing the dev team or VERANT"

Ack I wish I could edit my posts... I type very fast, and thus make alot of mistshakes
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RE: Sony is the bad guy?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
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hehe Good thing I am not offended

I know the development team goes through hell. I am sure that if the had their way without thw big-wigs giving them a deadline (ad then slowly pulling it back like a DoT), we would ave no bugs, and even more great content.

To the dev team, you are doing a GREAT job! I am, and always will be impressed with what you have done with EQ.

That having been said, let's note that the dev team is commonly referred to as Verant, and the people making their lives tougher are commonly referred to as Sony.

Now read the posts again. Tell me where you see anyone bad mouthing the dev team OR Sony.

Pay attention before you call someone a moron, or you will be directing your own insult to yourself 8) This goes in any situation (don't worry we have all done it at one time or another)

The reason I started this discussion is simply that there are issues which need to be fixed, but aren't.

All the talent, blood, sweat, and tears that goes into one of these expansions or extensions or whatever you wanna call it COULD go into fixing existing problems twice over.

I don't pretend to know who in the whole scheme of things says "Okay lets shaft our customers as far as the issues they're concerned with go and make another expansion", but I would bet that it's not the people actually sitting in front of a comp screen writing lines of code, drawing up stories, or modeling.

I will never belittle their taks, as it is a hard one.

NOW

If we are all done ranting and misinterpreting the discussion all together, let me spell out AGAIN what I was hoping people would do..

Here's an example:

"Hey, yeah, I was thinking the same thing! I have always hated (insert bug here), plus (insert issue here), and (insert gripe here)."

Why? So that maybe one of those big wig's will get the idea that what customers want (and YES I would pay for if I had to, just like an expansion) is for certain things to be fixed.

Forums are not only to flame, but to share ideas, brainstorm, and send messages. Apparently, some people are only capable of flaming.
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RE: Sony is the bad guy?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 11:53 PM Rating: Default
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"Sony cares about $$ not about 8)" by you, GaliemVaelant

"We will be selling your souls on the communist black market." Galiemvalent again

"Sony's only real concern is the money." Anonymous below

"SOE's programmers couldn't pour water out of a boot if the instructions on how to do so were written on the heel." by Ironic

"/smack /rude Sony" by Muldari

"They are crack dealers" by you again, Galiemvaelant

"As a game, it blows" by you once more Galiemvaelant.

Now, what was it you were saying about showing you someone saying something bad about the dev team? And this is just one string. One conversation.

By the way, I never used the word 'moron' but if it suits you, run with it. As I said, it's not aimed at those who are not offended, but as you sit writing your reply feverishly, pause a moment and think of the connection there.

As someone with very talented and very underpaid associates who does this for a living even though in web development or a similar career they could make alot more, I know what I'm talking about and they do it for fun, because in life, we all must have jobs which pay, but some are done purely for money and some are done purely for desire for the work. I would be with them too, but I decided not to, because I wanted to be able to not be at work every weekend and to have money to spend.

if you have grievances, thats fine, but on an announcement page for a new addition they are proud to release it shouldn't seem appropriate.

r.
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RE: Sony is the bad guy?
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# Jan 17 2003 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Edited, Fri Jan 17 12:55:27 2003
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RE: Sony is the bad guy?
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# Jan 17 2003 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Edited, Fri Jan 17 12:56:13 2003
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RE: Sony is the bad guy?
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# Jan 17 2003 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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And one more comment on your flaming...

The whole logic of "If you're offended, then this applies to you..." Is waaay off

I did NOT spend years serving this nation's military to have somebody attack me every time I try to state my opinion publicly. If you don't like my opinion, then state it. DO NOT try to twist my words into something they are not. I NEVER attacked the dev team. I attacked whoever makes the damn decision of whether to fix current bugs, or add to gameplay...

You REALLY think anybody who comes up with the ideas for content, or is an underpaid coder makes those decisions? NO! The people who make that decision are money grubbing executives who know next to nothing about gaming. That is why they hire artists and content creators who understand marketing. DO NOT post on something you know nothing about!

And if you don't like what I'm saying, ignore it, or disagree with me, but if you want to tell people not to state their opinions, then go move to a communist country. You'll fit in MUCH better.

Once again, let me break down the logic of my posts for you in very small, simple words that wil lbe easier for you to understand...

DEV TEAM = VERANT

I NEVER said something bad about VERANT or the DEV TEAM.

EXECUTIVES WHO DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT CUSTOMERS WANT = SONY

I said quite a few bad things about Sony.

If you are going to attack someone's post every time they don't have the same view as you, and try to make them look bad, then you will never make a valid point. I get SOOO sick of people like you interrupting adult conversations. Go back to your pokemon, and leave this to the grown ups!
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RE: Sony is the bad guy?
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# Jan 17 2003 at 10:07 AM Rating: Default
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I never did curse or call names, GaliemVaelant. All I did was repost what you and other has written. In a way, you're fighting with yourself. Also, you had written to show you where anyone said anything "...bad about Verant OR Sony..." So, I did.

But if asking you and some others to leave bug issue rants off an announcement page for a digital extension is asking too much, then fine. enjoy. its a game. Just like pokemon.

I'll leave you to your just cause of setting everyone straight. Good luck with that.

:)

r.
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RE: Sony is the bad guy?
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# Jan 17 2003 at 2:49 PM Rating: Decent
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From Loom: "billions of rants is insulting, rude, and really ignorant"

Insulting someone's opinions is the same as insulting them directly.

AND if you read the small message above where I asked for quotes about VERANT or SONY, you will see that I didn't know at that point how to edit my post, and that was a type-o What I had meant to say was "dev team or verant"

The Timestamp on the post will stop your next ignorant remark which will be that I conviniently added that once you posted the above reply.

Like I have told you probably 4 times now READ THE POSTS!!!!

AFTER you read the posts, you will see your presumptious, pompous, assinine nature of comprehending information is a little off.

And Yes, I did curse. I edited those replies with cursing to remove it so I don't offend anyone other than you. Why do I not mind offending you? Because before you showed up, this board contained a discussion, and not rants. You are the type of person who turns all EQ boards into flame wars. I hate your type, though not you personally.

Also, "assinine" is not an explitive. Look it up. I did before I posted it to make sure that Webster officially doesn't list it as an explitive, just so I don't give you a way to continue this.

I think it's over now.. For the very few pieces of info that you added which weren't rants or flaming, thank you.

For the people who are sifting through the garbage caused by this guy trying to distort my words (which I won't allow to happen when I am looking for constructive feedback from the public), I am sorry.

Maybe now that (hopefully) every angle to turn this discussion into a rant has been defended, we can have an adult conversation.

And Loom, if you do reply again, it will just show that you must have the last word, which is very immature. Say what you want in it. I won't reply to you again because I have said enough. If you still don't comprehend my post, you need to see a doctor, because half your brain has been melted.
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funny
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:38 PM Rating: Default
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I find it amusing that everquest is becoming more like daoc day by day :)
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RE: funny
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# Jan 16 2003 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, more like DAoC...like the RvR element, that's becoming more like DAoC every day - wait, no, it's not. Must be the tradeskills, they're more like DAoC...er, no. Oh, I get it, it's how grouping and leveling works! That's...um, no, that's not it either.

So they're adding a LFG utility and dyeable armor. How long has the playerbase been shouting for that? At least as long as I can remember - and that's well before DAoC came out. (And with any luck, the LFG utility will actually work, unlike DAoC's completely unusable LFG POS.)

While you can look at parallels all you want, the fact that SOE/Verant/whoever they are this week are responding to the playerbase is nothing but good.

Besides, DAoC is for sucks.

Edited, Thu Jan 16 15:12:15 2003
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RE: funny
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# Jan 16 2003 at 5:03 PM Rating: Default
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I smell a VI zombie... have you been brainwashed???
I like DAoC for its depth which EQ lacks tho it is getting better, I like EQ for it's size and versatility which DAoC lacks but it also is getting better, the two are becoming very similar in abilities ingame but are still two VERY different games in story and game play.
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RE: funny
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# Jan 17 2003 at 12:42 AM Rating: Default
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wow. I don't mean to have this sound like a flame, but DAoC for its depth? The one thing that put me off of that game right off the bat was the lack of originality and the shallow lore.

ex. Welcome to DAoC. King Arthur is dead. So, monsters are here. Bear with us on that one. Kill stuff and other people and we'll get back to you. thanks.

I know you like DAoC more, and that's cool (I really mean that. variety is the spice n' all), but lets keep the comparision points valid here people. yeesh. DAoC for it's depth. That one's gonna haunt me for ages. I like Arthurian legend and I like the idea of realms and the look of the game too. Its different than EQ, as it should be to be a viable competitor, but if you wanna raise your DAoC flag high, stay away from the 'depth' issue.

With the online PS2 EQ Adventures taking us 500 years in the past and EQ2 to take us 500 years into the future, with conflict, trajedy, and discovery on racial, political, military, and social levels including a history of creation, this is as close as we're gonna get to a perfect world-building environment until Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time goes digital and online. (you listening Sony? :) )

A perfect example is someone that was hoping that the frogloks build the future city of Marr or when Tunare used to show up in the Greater Faydarks years ago and people came running up just to click snapshots and bow, then tell their friends. That doesn't work without a proper backdrop the player is familiar and at home with because they receive nothing for seeing or knowing this besides more depth and viability in the world they travel in.

I try em all. Anarchy Online had a great look, but the entire rebel vs. Omni thing was very low-key. Mostly a pvp thing.

Earth and Beyond...was there any lore? I forgot. :)

Asheron's Call and Asheron's Call 2. The first was good and though like you said without the size of EQ, but it held its own and was great. Unfortunately, I thought 2's idea of coming back into the world was an excuse like 'since we have no storyline content fleshed out for the entire world we've created...let's say its all empty for now.'

Again, not a flame, but I am a player who sticks most of the time just to enjoy the world and lore itself and I would switch back to DAoC in a heartbeat if I thought for one minute that the surrounding independant stories of Camelot would envelop me enough as it has in Norrath.

But there's obviously something there that catches you and that's why its there. Different strokes for different folks. Enjoy it. As for me, I'd rather watch Excalibur again for the millionth time. :)

r.
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POP, Profits, Bugs and More
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Everyone seems to be complaining about Sony 'Not fixing' the bugs. In my admittedly limited experience, I've found the EQ team to be fairly good about admitting and fixing bugs, at least major ones, as compared to say, Microsoft (security hole? What security hole).

For those of you who aren't aware, EQ is built over old MUD (multi-user dungeon) software from the early days of the net. I used to run one, and back then, just that simple version (no graphics and not 1/10th the functionality of EQ) was 30,000+ lines of code. EQ is prolly in the millions at this point. Any project of that size is ALWAYS going to have bugs. Forever. So, you go into bug triage, and ask yerself does this bug affect the usability of the software (i.e. preventing it from running) NOT the quality of game play, what percentage of users does it affect (everyone who runs windows, or just 2 users in Pochaptlix Mexico) and what will it take to fix. EQ seems to follow the same model.

For me at least, EQ is a very stable environment. I don't get page faults, GPFs, BSODs or anything else, which is my main requirement of software. Most bugs I hear about are related to one zone, one item, one spell, which means they affect only a small portion of users (a bug in a pally sword is not going to affect my mage).

Now to the flip side. Sony is in business for ONE reason. The making of profits. No ifs ands or buts.

Taking both of those into account.. Sony has a limited number of developer resources. They divide those two ways, 1> to support a generally STABLE product, or 2> to produce revenue generating expansions. This becomes a no brainer from a business standpoint.

Then, you can take it from a marketing standpoint. Producing constant new content keeps players interested and provides more opportunities to recruit new players. My cousin (a 14 yr old female) was watching me play a few weeks ago and wasn't interested at all. Yesterday, she saw the Froglok char and asked if she could try one. Ka-ching?

Gamers as a whole are used to constantly enhanced game play. Otherwise, why do people who own Madden 2K buy 2K1, 2K2, and so on.. Stop providing that and they move to titles that do (and Sony is now beginning to face more competition than ever).

The argument is made that these new zones should be free. Why? I happen to own some Sony stock, and as a shareholder, if Sony came to me and said hey, we just had all these artists, programmers, testers and marketers work on this new zone and we're GIVING it away, I'd throw a fit. All this stuff costs money to make and Sony has the right to make a profit on it.

Another argument is that long-time players should get a reward. Okay, you can make a case for that, but how do you do it without unbalancing the game. Should you only get an extra bank slot or mapping capabilities after you have played for a year? Or six months? Oh, and what if you used to play, closed your account and came back. Does that count? The only thing I could see is that if you maybe kept a continuously active account for more than 12 months, you get a $1 credit on the monthly fee or something.

Sony is trying to be a successful business. Period.

As to POP - According to Sony Support, POP will not be needed for Ykesha. HOWEVER, at least one of the new spells will be tuff to get without access to the library (this from rumor mill, see previous post).

As to Download Congestion - Supposedly, the Ykesha files are on a SEPARATE set of dedicated patch servers to help alleviate the load.

As to download speed - The reason the final patch is expected to be 50MB is that these are files that need to be integrated as a set (core game files) and cannot be piecemealed without major reconstruction. An example of this would be the code dealing with Charms, which affect almost every aspect of the game (graphics, inventory, spells, etc). The stuff coming down early is stuff like zone and sound files, spell files, etc, that just need to be 'turned on'.

My bud is almost wishing he never took that sony job 2 months ago :)

Loonbeam
48 Mage
Seventh Hammer
Society of Assassins


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RE: POP, Profits, Bugs and More
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I can thoroughly agree with what you are saying here, but have you looked at the bugs page on this site alone?

I honestly cannot argue with what you are saying, but at the same time you are only agreeing with me.

Sony cares about $$ not about 8)
What do I mean? If you pay still, there's no bug...

As far as the program goes, it is stable. I am happy that the crash bugs that occured shortly after the release of SoL were dealt with and corrected in a timely and professional manner.
Sony DOES deserve props for that.

However, doesn't EQ have a dedicated team for content, as well? Also, why did they even bother to have that vote? They may as well include text with the patch message that goes

"We know that you, the players, basically support many of our staff, but we don't care at all whether you are happy with the product. We know you have put at least a year into your characters, and aren't stupid enough to throw away all that work by going somewhere else. In short, to put it in the words that many of you use, our content and development department would like to say WE OWNZ J00! Have a nice day! P.S. We will be selling your souls on the communist black market."

I am not meaning to flame or grief Sony. I understand that they are there to make money. Hell, why else would they make and run EQ? For fun? I would just like to see them keep their own promises to the players. If they can't afford or are not able to improve existing content, and / or fix bugs, then why do they keep promising they will?

Sony oughta have a place where player suggestions can be posted AND read. They could pay a middle aged guy named Harold to do it for like $10,000 a year. Then, they could take hot issues off those forums, and hold a vote each month on which one they will work on... AND ACTUALLY DO IT..

Now, if I can come up with an ecomomically feasible way for them to take care of their customers, why can't they?

One more note... EQ is NOT built onto a MUD (Massive User Database when created, later became known as Massive Underground Dungeon when it was only used for text gaming, instead of professional applications, as it was originally meant)... Verant has stated time and time again that EQ was coded, modeled, and written from the ground up... Every vertex, every pixel, every letter, every variable.

Edited, Fri Jan 17 12:59:38 2003
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RE: POP, Profits, Bugs and More
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# Jan 16 2003 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm middle aged, but not named Harold, can I apply for this job anyways? Hehehe
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RE: POP, Profits, Bugs and More
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# Jan 17 2003 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Sure 8)

Along with your application, be sure to include...

A urine sample, blood sample, spinal tap, hair sample, polygraph test results, medical report, driver's liscence, social security card, voter registration card, birth certificate, DD 214 (if ex military), all of the above for all relatives, friends, and former coworkers, fingerpints, retinal scans, DNA, criminal records, non-disclosure form, background checks, security clearance (if applicable), resume, photo copies of all currently owned assets (such as stocks, bonds, safety deposit boxes, and CD's), credit report, pap smear (if applicable), pregnancy test (if applicable), proof of representation (from your attourney), list of all published works (recognized professional distributions only), transcript from preschool, elementary school, middle school, junior high, high school, community college, undergraduate studies, graduate studies, shot record, passport, marriage liscence (if applicable), divorce decree (if applicable), proof of insurance (medical, car, life, and home), your eternal soul, a picture of the Loch Ness Monster (must be an original picture), 2 turtle doves, and a partidge in a pear tree...

Then we move on to stage two of the application process..

Smiley: grin

Okay maybe this reply is a little silly lol

Edited, Fri Jan 17 13:47:37 2003
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RE: POP, Profits, Bugs and More
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# Jan 16 2003 at 3:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I do have to think they look at some of it. On this and other boards, I see requests for more bank space, a mapping tool, etc.

I suspect they did exactly what you said, namely pick some ideas, decide and add em in.

After I read yer post, I made another call to my buddy and asked what they're bug evaluation process is...

The short version. You know the /bug function? Those items at the top of the list in reports from INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNTS (not multiples from the same person) are flagged to be addressed. They don't really look at web sites for bug reports (no reason why).

So, it seems if you REALLY want a bug fixed, report it the PROPER way (from the way he said this I suspect its a hot button there) and get yer friends to as well. If it makes it to the top of the internal list, it will probably be fixed if feasible. Whining on Allakhazam will not get your problem fixed.

A side note, not from my bud. If you submit a bug report, be CLEAR and DETAILED. I do a lot of customer service at my job and constantly get e-mails that go "I'm having trouble with Photos. Please help." Since I have no idea what yer problem is, I can't respond as easily, and therefore your request goes to the end of the queue. A good bug report might be /bug At 11:50 AM EST, I attempted to cast the spell 'Slauhgter Monster'. The screen flickered and the spell did not cast. There was no fizzle message, however my mana was reduced.

Loonbeam
48th Mage
Seventh Hammer
Society of Assassins
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RE: POP, Profits, Bugs and More
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# Jan 16 2003 at 4:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you kindly, Loom 8)

I see that you actually are providing useful info to this conversation, but bear in mind that there are issues which seem to be umm... ignored..

This is not whining by the way. Your post was great up till you said that.

Please can somebody add this this conversation without being rude or insulting? lol
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RE: POP, Profits, Bugs and More
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# Jan 16 2003 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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The point I was hopefully trying to make is that a lot of people may be complaining in the wrong venues, or in an inappropriate manner.

I think I injected a bit too much of my personal experience into that last one.

Hope I didn't come off as whiny.

Loonbeam
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RE: POP, Profits, Bugs and More
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# Jan 16 2003 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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/em Throws a bowlful of jello at Loom...

AMUCK!


...I been reading forums at /gu too much...

Getting later.. Getting off work soon, so will be logged in instead of watchin the forum..

Lemme close by saying even though I *wish* they would just spend a month or two making a patch for fixing bugs, then sell it like an expansion even (good compromise? lol), this looks like it will be pretty decent! There's alot of creative ideas in there, and I can't wait to see the new zones!

Yup. I'm addicted. You?
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RE: POP, Profits, Bugs and More
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I love following up to my own posts:

Someone asked about dialups - Sony is playing the market here. Recent Harris survey indicated that 62% of online gamers (play more than 4 hours a week) have broadband.

This way they have more time to work on it, don't have to sell thru a middleman (more profit, that's why its $2 less than a disk version).

Projections indicate broadband will have 85% of the market by 2004 (end).

Loon
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what if I format my hard drive do I loose it?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Whoa, download,
so what happens when your system crashes and you have to reformat or you get a bug and have to reinstall?

besides those I love the idea of a froglok in my group...so many jokes to have fun with!
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RE: what if I format my hard drive do I loose it?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:38 PM Rating: Decent
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At this time, you will need to Redownload. Grapevine has it you may eventually be able to order the files on CD for a minimal cost, but apparently the current patcher model does not support that.

Alternately, the next Expansion (as opposed to extension), will have the code onboard.

Loonbeam
48th Mage
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Society of Assassins
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RE: what if I format my hard drive do I loose it?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 3:29 PM Rating: Default
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I think this game is fantastic(the praise). I won't be downloading anymore of the updates, as a 50MB download for the final patch on a modem puts all my fun at risk(loss of connection and the resultant scrambled mess). If It comes out on disk I'll gladly purchase, but some of us live without broadband and it's great speed. A great product, to bad I'll miss this part of it...

Doom
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what if I format my hard drive do I loose it?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Whoa, download,
so what happens when your system crashes and you have to reformat or you get a bug and have to reinstall?

besides those I love the idea of a froglok in my group...so many jokes to have fun with!
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RE: what if I format my hard drive do I loose it?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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The registration for LoY is attached to your lovely Station Login (the same one you use to login to EQ). When you register for LoY, you get the rights to download it as many times as you need to - so if you reformat, you just reinstall EQ normally, then login, and (this is critical), checkmark the LoY box in the optional downloads. Voila! You will download LoY again.

BTW - you can not use this trick to get your buddy the expansion without paying for it by logging into his computer with your account and downloading it. Yes, the files will download so you can play. But since the system knows what expansions each account can access, it will limit that person's access to those options. I discovered this one day when my friend (who does not have SoL) came over to play on his account so he could see what the new graphics looked like, and all the old models and textures loaded up. He was bummed, but I just had to laugh.
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PoP necessary?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Anyone know if PoP is necessary for LoY? I don't have PoP as I'm not high enough level to enjoy most of it...

I love the graphics of EQ2, and I think I'm headed in that direction next year, so I don't see the point of pumping more money into "old" EQ. If I don't download LoY, will I still be able to interact with the new froggies?

I can't beleive they made frogs a playable race...ponderous, truly ponderous.

PS sorry about the brain fart that caused my earlier empty posts

Edited, Thu Jan 16 13:07:18 2003
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RE: PoP necessary?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Good question!

This is my guess (and it is only a guess), but PoP was aimed mostly at the 60-65 crowd, while this is aimed at the 35-60 crowd... Wouldn't make sense to require the one you would need later first. For that reason, I will say it probably isn't (also that I haven't read that PoP is one of the requirements).
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Blah Blah
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# Jan 16 2003 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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I must agree with several of these posts on several different points.

(1) Even though I am excited to start a Pally Froglok due to the good starting stats and look, I had much rather they took the time to fix the butt load of existing problems.

(2)Downloading this expansion is gonna be a nightmare that will probably last a week or so. Especially for those of us (as me) who can't get broadband due to geographical location. Luckily,I have a friend that lives nearby I can take my system to and download on his DSL. Although being able to download bits at a time up till release will alleviate it a bit. But that still leave having to try and get online release day with everyone else doing the same.

(3) Yep, Sony's only real concern is the money. They seem to care less and less about the player's enjoyment and convenience with each new expansion they throw out there. Why else would they keep bringing on the expansions before fixing the currently used ones? Because they know that people will complain, sure, but they also know that the number of people buying it and giving them more money will far outweigh the disgruntled people. Heck! Even those people will complain, but still buy it!! =0

All we can do is keep replying to them with bugs we find as stated above by others, enough people do it and they will have no choice but to fix them or have lots of people quitting or giving themselves a bad image. Although, that may not be the case either considering EQ2 on the way.
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PoP
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# Jan 16 2003 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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PoP necessary?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 1:24 PM Rating: Decent
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LoY, the bugfix vote, PoP bugs, and other assorted minutae
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# Jan 16 2003 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Like many of you, the first question that sprang to my mind when I saw the "Announcing LoY!" bullet in yesterday's patch news was, "Wait...didn't they take a survery about this?" Also, like many of you, there's at least a couple of features in LoY that I really want (expanded bank and charm slot, mostly), so I'm going to buy it. The fact that SOE has ignored the results of the bugfix survey that they took doesn't surprise me in the least- regardless of how I, or you, or anyone else feels about it, SOE's main aim with EQ is to make money. Period. They're not interested in improving customer service or making their existing customers happier, because they've got half a million subscribers who gladly pay their monthly subscription fees (including those, like me, who pay for more than one account so they can hydra or have a 24/7 trader in the bazaar), despite the craptacular service they've offered to date. As a customer base, by playing the game in spite of SOE's indifference to our feelings, we have effectively told SOE that we're pretty much willing to live with any swill they're willing to dish out, no matter how bad it is, and no matter what else they take away from us to do it. If every player in the game didn't quit after the SoL debacle, they're not going to quit because of LoY. That's the bottom line. We've made our bed. Now we have to sleep in it, regardless of how itchy the sheets are. If this prospect is distasteful to you, then by all means, quit. SOE won't notice.

As far as the notion of SOE trying to nudge players in the direction of EQ2 by hobbling the support for EQ, that just doesn't make sense. First off, the portion of the code in EQ2 that's more complex is the graphics and spell effects engine. The quest, tradeskill, and AI engines aren't likely to need a lot of revamping, and I'm thinking that land ownership isn't really that daunting a piece of code. They're not going to be looking to save a few pennies by shifting all of their EQ support personnel to EQ2, they'll just hire new people to support the new game. Personally, I don't plan to even look at EQ2 until it's been out for at least twelve months, and even then, it's going to be a tough sell. Sure, if the EQ population does migrate to EQ2, SOE will shift some of the support personnel to make sure that support for both games is balanced, but they're not going to intentionally alienate the EQ subscriber base to try and get them to go to EQ2, because dropping support for EQ doesn't make players think, "gee, support for EQ2 must be better, I'll go play that," it makes them think, "Gee, SOE sure does suck. I'm outta here." Plus, they're not introducing bugs on purpose- it's just that SOE's programmers couldn't pour water out of a boot if the instructions on how to do so were written on the heel.

-aye
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RE: LoY, the bugfix vote, PoP bugs, and other assorted minut
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# Jan 17 2003 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Ok i'm not one of those super tech guys, nor a big fan of complainers. But seriously, SONY hurting for money??? I own a business, and everytime I start a new venture, I realise that there is a bottom line shift, and you usually recover and then exceed over a short period of time.

Maybe it's just me, but if I can reconise this fact, surely a little company like SONY(you know they make more than just EQ,right?) should understand this concept. People will go there. People will stay, they'll get new users, and loose some altogther. But to say it's a fiscal faux pas??

When you call them up to complain about your EQ probs. At the comptuer menu hit 1 for EQ and not 2 EQ2 otherwise bury the horse i think you've beat it enough.

Pinamast
Ranger of no god
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RE: LoY, the bugfix vote, PoP bugs, and other assorted minut
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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You make some good points, but don't you think that EQ may become an expense for Sony once EQ2 is out? I mean, they will have the cost of coders', artists', and content writers' salaries, plus the cost of new servers, distribution, advertising, GM's, technical support, webspace, bandwidth, and the fat wallets of the execs up at Sony. Then when you consider the fact that 90% of the players on EQ don't want to start over from level 1 just for better graphics... How will they pay this bill? Will one game have to carry the other?

I am only speculating, but let's say they said "Well, we can't afford both." They would have a hard time getting rid of the bill to run EQ. I doubt, also, that they would intentionally create bugs, but I don't doubt for one minute that they'll cut corners making sure everything works, so that they can lower their bill. Eventually, they just say "Well, EQ1 is old, and like most old things with technology, it don't work as well as it used to..." And the average Joe game player will go "Gee um whatever you say, George," and make the switch.

Then, they have a lower and lower and eventually gone bill for EQ1, and they have income from EQ2... Now the bills pay themselves, plus some (as they should in any business).

Let me say again though that the main reason I started this discussion is the fact that 99% of the players out there want the current content fixed, not just dressed up pretty wit a new expansion. Way figure it, Sony needs constuctive criticism... Tell 'em here what you want, and maybe they'll think about it.

I honestly don't believe they even look at the /feedback or /bug reports unless filtering software catches matching words and phrases in thousands of them.

Just a possibility.
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RE: LoY, the bugfix vote, PoP bugs, and other assorted minut
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Let me make one more comment on the "We'll keep playing anyway" lines...

One day, someone will make a MMORPG with all the qualities we love about EQ, only with great customer support, and minimal bugs. Maybe even dynamic content and "Daily unique events", like Sony falsely advertises...

When that happens, if things haven't changed, I think Sony will be left holding their collective members going "Ummm What the hall happened? We were the number one MMORPG!"

But then again, that's just history repeating itself... Anytime a group of people get fed up with an organization, somebody has the idea to give them everything the original organization couldn't.. Hell, that was the driving principle that started America off! I would just actually rather see EQ get fixed than one day get tired of it and go somewhere else.

Anyone /agree?
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RE: LoY, the bugfix vote, PoP bugs, and other assorted minut
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# Jan 16 2003 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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I absolutely agree: Sooner or later, someone else (maybe Brad and his new Microsoft-funded venture) will make an MMORPG that has the grab of EQ and exemplary customer service. Until that time, however, EQ is the tops in pops. I think there's a pretty good chance that SWG and Planetside are going to take a chunk out of EQ's player base, but they're not going to be taking strictly from EQ: AC/AC2, DAoC, SO, and UO are going to take a hit also, but when it comes down to it, your point about everyone not wanting to start over at level 1 is going to be a major sticking point for a lot of players.

Part of what makes EQ enjoyable is the sense of "home" that players have, and that comes from having spent the weeks/months/years that it took to build their characters up to where they are. Whether the perceived high level of their character comes from actual player level, trade skill proficiency, or simply social standing is of no consequence: The amount of time it took to achieve the status they have is not something most players will be willing to simply throw away. It's the same mechanism that keeps people at one job for a long time: Once they've worked for the same company for an extended period of time, there are lots of intangible benefits that come with familiarity with the workplace and one's co-workers, and it's difficult to justify giving that up, even if one doesn't consciously acknowledge that it's a factor.

Further, when EQ2 does ship, the shots I've seen sort of imply that its engine is going to require some pretty uber horsepower to operate smoothly, and at present, EQ is pushing the limits of the hardware used by probably 50% of the player base. Look at how many people were still using Win95 when SoL came out and forced their switch to 98 or better.

In short, I don't think EQ is in a great deal of danger of shriveling up when EQ2 comes out- EQ2 will simply be yet another in the ever-growing list of MMORPGs that new players might select, but that existing players will probably disregard because of the investment they've made in their existing game, in time, money, and emotion (yeah, I know, it's just a game, but let's face it- we all get that same little shiver when the "ding" sound plays).

-aye
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RE: LoY, the bugfix vote, PoP bugs, and other assorted minut
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# Jan 17 2003 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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Um, are you retarded or something?

Brad is the one who put in all the insane timesinks.

He was the one against soulbinders, teleporters etc.

He was the one who started the tradition of releasing crap with crap for CS.

And you think anything coming from the ***** filled brain of Brad might be good?

HA!!!!!!
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RE: LoY, the bugfix vote, PoP bugs, and other assorted minut
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# Jan 17 2003 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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I think after all my (semi) rants about buf fixes over content extensions, I do owe one thing to Verant (not sony... excecutives make me shiver)

This overall looks like it will be one of the best expansions yet. Alot of lower level people who felt alienated with the release of PoP will feel much better with this one. The idea of froglocs as a playable race is just AWESOME! I mean, not only because they're cute, but because they are unique in comparison to all other races, as far as looks go.

The LFG tool (which I expect to work something like /bazaar... You tell it what class and level range you want for your group, it returns everyone LFG in the zone that matches the criteria) Is also an AWESOME idea, though not needed as much, I don't think.

New zones are always a good thing... I don't know about y'all, but new zones are half the reason I get any expansion.

Expanded bank? Armor dye? They are REALLY making life easier on players, and if the armor dye isn't restricted to only a few types of armor (as it has been restricted to plate so far), then THAT is one truly cool idea!

Okay, I DO think they should have fixed some issues first, but when it comes down to it, they got my $17.95 for the extension (kinda expansion and extension cuz it does have new areas).

When I started my thread, I did not mean to come off like I was badmouthing the devs... I only wanted to see who agreed with me on that issue, and list some here. Period. Overall, EQ IS a great hobby, and I will always be impressed by the ammount of content, the size of the game world, the complexity, and the socially inclined structure.

Next time I post something, I will look for a forum that is for that specific topic instead of such a general topic such as "What do you think about this extension (expansion)?" Because those who disagreed with me attacked waaay too hard, and tried to twist my words, and those who agreed with me (generally, there are a few great posts) just belly ached and flamed (as "r" succeeded in getting me to do, which is a respectable first)
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RE: LoY, the bugfix vote, PoP bugs, and other assorted minut
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# Jan 17 2003 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
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It's anonymous again!

Hi!

I shouldn't rant not to flame, because "r" was skilled enough to get me angry... Takes hitting certain specific nerves for that.

But I think this guy has some good points! There is a sense of home in EQ... That's why, even when you're upset about one issue or another, you stay anyway... It's kinda like the fact that you wouldn't get a divorce because your husband or wife leaves the toilet seat up or don't put the cap on the toothpaste.
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Download over Dialup
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# Jan 16 2003 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I can appreciate the increments of downloads available up until the final release date, but they are estimating a 50MB final patch? Do they have ANY idea how long that will take for those unfotunate people who have Dial-Up?

I will be downloading the patch, UNABLE to play EQ for almost 15 hours.

SOE PLEASE get a clue. That's just insane.
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CAN be bought w/o CC
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# Jan 16 2003 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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From the Official FAQ:

If you do not wish to charge the extension to the same credit card that you have on record for your EverQuest account, or if you use Game Cards and do not have a credit card on account, you can pre-order the extension at our online store.

So those w/o a CC can still buy (and even pre-order) the game. They just have to do so by going through several extra steps instead of clicking the "convenient" pre-order now button on the startup screens. I haven't done a pre-order through the online store, so I don't know exactly what it entails. (I don't know if the online store only accepts CC payments)

Edited, Thu Jan 16 11:27:32 2003
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RE: CAN be bought w/o CC
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# Jan 17 2003 at 7:23 AM Rating: Default
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It's pretty safe to assume that the only payment they take via the online store would be via Credit Card. I mean, it's not like they can COD (Cash on Delivery) it, because it's data, not a physical object like a CD. That means a no CC person like me must have a friend use his/her CC and pay them when the time comes.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Lorac Stoneblighter
58 Cleric of Karana
Tribunal Server
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Fix it first, Sony
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# Jan 16 2003 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Two things to say:
1) Fix the damn bugs first, Sony.

2) For all those who have dialup and WANT the 'latest and sure to be buggiest' expansion, THANKS for NOTHING...do you really think downloading-even in increments-is feasible for dial-ups? /smack /rude Sony.
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Sony's Vote
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# Jan 16 2003 at 9:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Great! ANOTHER expansion, to bring MORE bugs, when Sony hasn't even fixed the ones they have made already.. On the contrary, they have added a few new ones!

Anyone here remember when Sony had a vote (on the News window at server select), right after release of SoL?

Remember how (and EVERYONE knew) everyone voted to "Fix issues with existing content and gameplay"?

Why did they have this vote? They even admitted themselves that this was the majority's choice, but THEY HAVE NOT DONE IT.

Sure, I AM excited about more bank space, and that charm slot, not to mention the new zones (it'll also be kewl to see a Froglok running around every so often), but what abou tall the bugs they have YET to fix?

Example: Even though server side filtering WAS a tool to help prevent linkdeath, they justified taking it away by saying they were helping to improve linkdeath.... That's like saying you can drive nails into wood better if you throw away your hammer and just use your hand!

Yup, they improved it! Everyone I know who never went LD now goes LD as if they have a dialup connection, and everyone I know with a dialup connection might as well not try to connect at all, because they can't stay connected for two minutes.
Thank You Sony!

You can also see which EQ news sites are Sony's biatches by reading their take on this (for example when mobhunter said that many people had improved connections due to the change). Hmmm... Really? Who?

And this is only the most recent.

Think maybe they wanna just come out with expansions to drain our pocketbooks, while they slowly kill off EQ in wake of EQ2? Many people on 7th Hammer think so.

Normally I don't complain about how Sony/ Verant (though Verant is no more) do things, but lately, I have been very angry...

How about the ten minute notice when servers are coming down for a "Half hour patch", which is going to actually take 2 hours?

I know my posting this here won't change a thing, because they don't read these forums, and if they did, they don't care at all what their paying customers think... They are crack dealers, and EQ is their crack.. They know we'll be back for more. I just wanna know how many people out there agree with me on this?
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RE: Sony's Vote
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# Jan 16 2003 at 12:41 PM Rating: Default
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Lol, why do you even play EQ? I would look towards some other mmorpg if you feel so bad about EQ. Just play the game and have fun, dont worry about issues like this. Verant does what it wants anyway, they are like the gouvernment.
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RE: Sony's Vote
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# Jan 16 2003 at 12:40 PM Rating: Default
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Lol, why do you even play EQ? I would look towards some the mmorpg if you feel so bad about EQ. Just play the game and have fun, dont worry about issues like this. Verant does what it wants anyway, they are like the gouvernment.
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RE: Sony's Vote
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# Jan 16 2003 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I play EQ for the social aspect mostly...

As a community or hobby, EQ is great.

As a game, it blows. It would never work if it weren't MMORPG.

Just because I would like to see some things fixed doesn't mean I hate the game. On the contrary, I love it, and would like to se these things fixed.

That is why I am calling for people to speak out.

Please read the whole post before you reply.

And don't flame, it only shows you are not paying attention 8)
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RE: Sony's Vote
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# Jan 16 2003 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I should note WHY I mentioned them killing off EQ before I get massively flamed...

Sony can hardly provide decent support for EQ alone... What will happen when EQ2 hits the shelves, and they now have two EQ's to support, one with MUCH more complex coding?

It is nearly economically unfeasable, even for an organization as vast as Sony...

Now, consider what would happen if Sony explained this in much better detail than I have, and told 400,000 people there would be no more EQ, just EQ2...

Sony would succeed in angering 400,000 people very badly, 300,000 at least would (for at least a short time) boycott Sony products, they would be so angry. It would NOT do ANYTHING good for the organization's public image, or marketing.

So instead they make it so that the vast majority of the 400,000 people don't WANT to play anymore by introducing so many bugs and timesinks into the game, plus cutting customer support. It would be such a gradual thing that it would allow them enough time to code and render a few new expansions and products for EQ so that production costs for EQ2 are payed before it even hits the shelves.

From a business point of view, I say it's genious, but as an EQ player I think it will suck.

Imagine you're on the Plane of Fire with your guild when you see the message *All servers are coming down in ten minutes for a brief half hour (read two hour) patch*...

How do you get someplace safe? You can't. And by the time you get back, all those high end mobs you just worked through will be back, and out for revenge. Now one of two things can happen... Either you port out the whole guild in ten minutes and start over on your advancement through the planes, or your whole guild dies, most of which losing their corpses due to being bound beyond PoF reach.

This is another example of how they will eventually make people not want to play.

I would post more, but there are so many bugs, so many people unsatisfied with so many things, that this post would be waaaay too long.
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RE: Sony's Vote
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# Jan 16 2003 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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i have one question )

I KNOW that where there are numbers there is power also,we are aprox. 400,000 strong my question is:

WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP SONY/VERANT TO IMPLEMENT CHANGES THAT WILL BENEFIT THE PLAYER ALSO,to make the game more enjoyable?

Looking for sugestion only then hopefuly we can do something toghether to have sony pay attention and take in consideration our opinions )
1)what do we want =sugestions
2)what do we need= sugestions
3)what can we do to make them liten to their customers )

TIME FOR ACTION )

i do pay for 4 accounts so there are 4 votes behind me )
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RE: Sony's Vote
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# Jan 16 2003 at 11:26 AM Rating: Decent
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This is one thing we can do...
Reply.. Add comments on bugs and issues that bother you. Mention things that SHOULD have been taken care of before the patch.

If there are enough voices, even on just this forum, we will get their attention.

That is where we start.

What we really need is a REAL feedback and /bug feature. Who knows? I can think business, but it takes brainstorming to come up with real ways to fix problems, so also post how Verant should take suggestions 8) If enough people scream, they will listen.

Another bug (happens with 5 people I know, other than myself)

Ever since the new UI was introduced, my mouse and keyboard will freeze. Why? Well, it's not my mouse or keyboard (replaced them)... Not my drivers, because EQ has proprietary mouse and keyboard drivers. Not my motherboard because it happens to other peeps just as often, and does not happen out of EQ... What is it? The propritetary drivers do NOT work with the XML UI in some environments.. Too bad all the peeps I know having the problem don't run the same OS, or there would be the answer. How to fix? If you are going to use proprietary drivers, then write them so they work... Or better yet, just use the same drivers the os and eliminate the problem all together, plus make less work for your coders 8)

I will check back on this discussion every so often, but remember this is not a call to flame. Honestly post bugs and probs with the game in reply to this, and maybe we'll get their attention.

Maybe not

Only way to find out is to try, but I just typed one bug AND how they can fix it, so there's no excuse for them not to do at least that one 8)
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dual wield/shield?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 7:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Anyone else look closely at the froglok models in the animations? Notice the dual wielding of swords, yet, a shield?
Neat looks, but if its NOT a bug then purhaps its a hint of what a charm slot might be. If it is a bug, its kinda crappy Sony would release that as a preview.
Anyways, i think 90% of us who download the newest extention will have to roll up atleast one frog.

I am da froggy king, Froak you!
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RE: dual wield/shield?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Another thing about that dual weilding froglok... notice that the only melee class a frog can be is Paladin? =)
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RE: dual wield/shield?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Hrmmm, warrior was there too...
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RE: dual wield/shield?
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# Jan 17 2003 at 1:53 AM Rating: Default
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ya but who cares, none of the stats of a froglok appear to be good for any of the possible classes
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Verant's real disregard for customers
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# Jan 16 2003 at 5:20 AM Rating: Decent
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"Two extensions in about six month and one dowloadable, god i cant wait till next month. I got PoP as soon as it was available on shops. What a great expansion".

Thats the kind of comments I mostly read in chats, despite the CC problems risen by some people, and i cant believe what i read. Now, to decrease costs and costumers fees when they'll buy the new extension, Verant make it downloadable. Great? May be, or MAY BE NOT.
I agree the other ano post saying that Verant's disregard for their costumers has reached a new level. Realize that for the PoP extension (which i decided not to buy for the moment) you had to pay about $30 and got the PoP with an EQ standard copy. Do you really think that a player which has one or several lvl 50+ char. need a copy of the standard EQ? It could probably have some of the others extensions. Is Verant trying to sell a second account to so bored long date players or trying to get some more players allowing them to play from lvl 1 to lvl 65?
Why Verant didn't send us a gift through a lowered prize (let's say $20) for the extension and only it? Wasn't this game's expansion ment for bored high lvls who played the game so long that they have seen most of the zones, killed most of the "bosses" and got so many AA they didnt know what more to get from EQ?
For most of the payers, the first three extension and the "alternates zones" give them enough to play for months, not to say years. You can even reach 60 without any extension, you only loose the new spells and the new 3D engine.
Sorry to have been so long, but all that just to say : Why dont Verant sell their extensions cheaper and keep selling them both on CD and Dowloadable (just put CD's copies a bit more expensive) and spend more time cleaning zones and giving new stuff for free through the patches?

Why players who dont buy the extensions have to loose the new spells and (for the new extension) the changes in inventory and bank, when loosing the new zones (with the nice new stuff and mobs, and the extended lvls in the case of PoP) seems
to be a sufficient punishment?

Its only my point of view, you dont have to agree with it, just think about it please.

Sorry to be ano, but i dont write a lot on the chats. My main char. is Herki (50 cleric) in the Antonius Bayle server.
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#Anonymous, Posted: Jan 16 2003 at 7:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ~Realize that for the PoP extension (which i decided not to buy for the moment) you had to pay about $30 and got the PoP with an EQ standard copy.~
RE: Verant's real disregard for customers
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# Jan 17 2003 at 7:29 AM Rating: Good
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Another brain dead VAK

/sigh

For one thing Plains of Power did come with the original EQ. Moron

Second, yes they are in it for money, but there are wrong ways to do it and SoE does it wrong everyday. They are easily in the same category of vile and evil corporations like Microsoft, McDonalds, Nike, Dow Chemical and Wal Mart.
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#Anonymous, Posted: Jan 16 2003 at 5:00 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) some of you ******* i just want to rip your nuts off and stuff them down your throat, over and over all you do every expansion is ***** ***** *****, i am ******* sick of the ****. do you have nothing better to do but sit around and *****?
Why they did it
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# Jan 16 2003 at 4:23 AM Rating: Default
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Money of course. Remember when you went to the theaters to see Back to the Future II? (Yes, I am that old) Remember at the end they showed scenes from BTTF3? You see the trick was, they already made it at the same time, but they got you to go to the theaters TWICE! Same here, instead of one BIG expansion, they give you two normal sized ones. Double the money!
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What next?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:48 AM Rating: Default
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This being a shock to me when i got on at 1pm, as i clicked on the EQ icon on my desktop, the first thing i was thinking was "will they add on to EQ anymore"? Lets face it SOE is making two games about Everquest this year, EQOA and EQ2 , and what about Everquest? will we keep on playing? Will they keep on adding new things affter all EQ did start This.Any way affter thinking of this i looked on to my download screan to see IT CHANGED. At first i was think it was a Big GM event like the plane of time was opened , or theres a new God who has power and blah blah blah all that jazz,
and it turns out to be that its a new expantion that you download! WOot , play as the froglocks WOOT new LFG Thing and more bank slots . affter reading this i did a dance of joy. affter looking in the expantions that SOE made there a patern, there are two types of expantions one is a race expantion and a add on expantion. It started with RoK (ruins of kunark) It was a race expantion with the Iksar, the it went to SoV wich added more add ons , then it went to SoL wich you can play as the vah shir wich is a race expantion, then PoP came out adding yet more add ons, now they ADD LoY WICH INDEED is a race expantion adding the froglocks. It so far has been inorder (Race, add on race, add on, race). in my book the next expantion is going to be a add on, now it makes me think whats SOEs next idea (lets say they ARE thinking of more expantions to EQ). well lets think Norrath is filled up with land, They made the moon luclin, and more planes , and in the upcoming LoY there more zones wich i have no idea where the new zones will be but im gessing proply on antonica. now what next, the dark side of the moon (wich i have to say is a ******* pink floyed song) the layers of norath? more graphics where swords spark and softbodys move with movement , water riples, and so and so, luclin has a moon? I could go on with this for days on end till my vocie is all horse and sore. The point is What next? Add on to this if you have any ideas about this, i'm still thinking about this.


Rilkorazz of the vazale server, fiti one shammy
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Joke
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# Jan 16 2003 at 2:20 AM Rating: Good
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What did one lesbian froglock say to the other lesbian froglock........ wow , we do taste like chicken.

Ok I know that was lame but some one had to throw a little humor in with all this ******** , crying, moaning, complaining and just plain annoying talk about how EQ is gonna ***** up the release.

They do it every time. Thats why we have the great allakhazam to get us through our time of need.
( Think I get a free year's subscription from that kiss up ? )

Kaladarr kaldassian 54 TreeHugger Sol Ro

Edited, Thu Jan 16 01:57:30 2003
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Note
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# Jan 16 2003 at 12:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Extension

Not

Expansion

This will be a "mini expansion" something I've been waiting for them to do since ROK was sold online through the online store. Think of this more as a "storyline" driven expansion.

Oh, can anyone say Veksar?(underwater zone... new breathing race...)

Edited, Thu Jan 16 00:27:26 2003
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Can Verant Change their tune?
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# Jan 16 2003 at 12:26 AM Rating: Good
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Wow, I wasn't expecting another expansion announcement, especially not one scheduled for next month. I still have to get PoP, most of my friends got it for Xmas, and now there's another on the horizon. Of course i'll get it, but I don't understand the logic of having expansions so close to each other. I won't be able to afford PoP and Ykesha together, i'll have to wait a while before getting the second one. Others like me will be forced to decide between the two expansions. This doesn't make sense for Verant, because they'd want as many people as possible to buy both expansions. You're cutting out that market of people when you announce another expansion so close to an existing one... I suppose thats why its only available via Credit Card, they figure the people with CCs will buy it even though they're broke! Still, i'm sure they'll find a way for people without CCs to buy it.

It's a bit weird, but apart from that, I like it. I like the idea of Frogloks (although i'm not a huge frog person, it'd be cool to round off the mammals and reptiles with amphibians). With the new levels in PoP, people want higher-end gameplay and I hope this also delivers. I used to be the first to condemn VI, the first to hate their money driven policies, asking myself what have they ever done for us, and so on and so forth. Things didn't change for the better part of a year, after I got Classic and Kunark-- but after Luclin, though, things just got better. I started liking the game more, there were more features, new models, new races, a new UI, the bazaar, new zones, new items, and they just got windowed mode-- It's a feature I remember VI moaning and whining that they were never going to implement because it went against gameplay. I remember them implementing something to stop Windows2000 from being able to alt tab out. The rumor was that the old VI head was against a lot of the changes and left. I have no idea if that's true, but I like the game more than ever before, and I hope it's because Verant is changing their tune.

Bring on the Frogloks!





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hello
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# Jan 16 2003 at 12:20 AM Rating: Default
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Well I'll probably just buy the new expansion and realize that they didn't fix anything. All the old bugs and the new ones won't get fixed and the new *features* that we're gona pay for are things that we should have had since day 1. Ok so we a get a new playable race ... Wooptidoo! Seriously .. at the stage where EQ is I don't think that making a new race available is the best of choices. Like I said we are going to pay for things that we should had have for a long time, in my opinion this expension should be free.

..Whats this new Charm thing ? Diablo2 ring a bell ?
/loots a +50% money from monsters charm ! :-D
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RE: hello
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# Jan 16 2003 at 3:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Although I (obviously) agree with the bugs, I don't like really to hear someone say that some features should have been there since day one.

Think about it. EQ is the first of its kind. Though there are other MMORPG, they do not come near the scale and proportion of EQ. This is why I also don't complain about bugs surfacing.. There's no way to possibly create a test environment that will be equal to the actual launch environment.

EQ has evolved alot over time. I will give it to Sony that they have fulfilled that promise, and the constantly expanding and changing world is what keeps us all glued to the comp screen.

Designing a game such as EQ would be a daunting task. It is practically impossible to predict every scenario, and every possible combination that will come about, and have it all perfect from day one.

So Sony learns as they go on that account. Sure, maybe something should have been there since day one, but considering everything the developers had to ponder, minor issues were laid to rest for the moment.

Completely understandable.

Plus, if they continue to come up with nifty ideas like epxnaded bank capacity, there will always be a reason to buy an expansion, and therefore, they will continue to profit. What happens when they don't profit anymore? Bye bye EQ.

I read somewhere on this site that somebody had the idea of allowing players to change deities. I think around level 60, it would be awesome, as long as the original deity restrictions have been removed, and players can only do it once. This should have also been possible from day one, but how would the developers have predicted that?
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